Why do rappers get shat on and rock artists get praised?

[The Black Stallion]

Seriously... I like rock and rap. But one thing that's bothered me about rock is that the lyrics are so fucking boring/mundane/un-clever. However, even in the worst raps you will find a bit of wit in there. So why do people, particularly white people, shit all over rap lyrics?

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

Because most rappers are illiterate, self-serving cunts with no musical ability.

As are alot of rockers.

[The Black Stallion]

Because most rappers are illiterate, self-serving cunts with no musical ability.

As are alot of rockers.

Oh yeah, fat bitches should stay out of this topic.

I forgot to say that in the initial post, sorry.

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

I'd pretty much file you in the "wannabe" illiterate, self-serving cunt category.

[The Black Stallion]

I'd pretty much file you in the "wannabe" illiterate, self-serving cunt category.

Yeah, you're a annoying fat bitch. You're not allowed in this thread as per the rules I just outlined. Get the fuck outta here.

[TVC15]

Black people haven't made any good music since this album:



Not counting Doggystyle, of course.  It's an exception.

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

I'M POSTING IN A SHITTY THREAD!

Yeah, I'm a rebel. rawr.

[Mupepe]

There's bias, I'll admit that.  There are some brilliant rap lyrics that go unnoticed by the mainstream.  But I don't agree with this

However, even in the worst raps you will find a bit of wit in there.

The worst rap lyrics are just as bad as the worst rap lyrics.  

Anyways, mainstream rock sucks just as bad as mainstream rap.  

Anyways, IMO, you can thank years of violent acts by rappers and their stupidity for the hate it receives and how most critics don't take rap seriously.  

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

"I just fucked this bitch, she gave me head/ I like doing it on a water bed/ I killed this nicca, I killed that nicca/ I gots me a gun, and it has a trigga" = wit? Fuck outta here, Erkel.

[makaveli]

racism old white men cant stand to see blacks successful

[Mupepe]

racism old white men cant stand to see blacks successful

That is sofa king we todd did

[Fresh Prince]

This is because shit rap lyrics glorify violence, drugs and misogyny while rock lyrics are shitty angst and love songs.

[Mupepe]

Besides, everyone knows Country music is where all the playa's are at.

[Phoenix Dark]

Seriously... I like rock and rap. But one thing that's bothered me about rock is that the lyrics are so fucking boring/mundane/un-clever. However, even in the worst raps you will find a bit of wit in there. So why do people, particularly white people, shit all over rap lyrics?

Maybe because rock includes actual musicians who actually know how to write music and use intruments?

[Beezy]

I've wondered about this too.

Seriously... I like rock and rap. But one thing that's bothered me about rock is that the lyrics are so fucking boring/mundane/un-clever. However, even in the worst raps you will find a bit of wit in there. So why do people, particularly white people, shit all over rap lyrics?

Maybe because rock includes actual musicians who actually know how to write music and use intruments?

That doesn't really matter if they still end up sounding like shit.

[Mupepe]

I've wondered about this too.

I ANSWERED!  MY ANSWER IS SERIOUS AND CORRECT!

[Phoenix Dark]

I have yet to hear a rock song that falls anywhere near the level of ignorance or plain stupidity as Laffy Taffy. Sorry.

One of the pillars of rap is lyricism. In the 80's guys in the city would attempt to best each other with the best and wittiest lyrics they could come up with; guys like Rakim really personified this. In the 90s the tradition was carried on by Nas, Biggie, etc. Today, the majority of rap is filled with cats who simply cannot rap, period. It's pathetic

[Mupepe]

PD confirmed it.  Rap is dead.

[Beezy]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that rap lyrics got shat on even back then.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that rap lyrics got shat on even back then.

Rap will always be shat on more than other genres because of its lack of any sort of intrumental/musical intergrity. Is a rapper a musician? Can the great rap producers like Dr Dre and Timbaland be compared to Quincy Jones, who actually composed his own music instead of taking it from others and looping it? These are questions serious music fans ask, fair or not fair.

[Beezy]

 

[The Black Stallion]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that rap lyrics got shat on even back then.

Rap will always be shat on more than other genres because of its lack of any sort of intrumental/musical intergrity. Is a rapper a musician? Can the great rap producers like Dr Dre and Timbaland be compared to Quincy Jones, who actually composed his own music instead of taking it from others and looping it? These are questions serious music fans ask, fair or not fair.

Both producers you named are classically trained musical artists. Also, you forget to mention Kanye West, who has quite a few musical arrangements to his credit. It goes without saying that most successful producers are pretty damn good at playing regular instruments. If making beats is so easy, why don't you do it? There is plenty of musical integrity in rap. I think there's just a lot of racist/ignorant bias that lends it to be shat on.

I have yet to hear a rock song that falls anywhere near the level of ignorance or plain stupidity as Laffy Taffy. Sorry.

One of the pillars of rap is lyricism. In the 80's guys in the city would attempt to best each other with the best and wittiest lyrics they could come up with; guys like Rakim really personified this. In the 90s the tradition was carried on by Nas, Biggie, etc. Today, the majority of rap is filled with cats who simply cannot rap, period. It's pathetic

Laffy taffy has some pretty clever use of poetic devices. Not to mention it all rhymes, and it's said to a beat. Again, if the lyrics in these songs are so bad, and so easy to make why don't you do it yourself and make some quick money and at the same time score some pussy?

Rock lyrics are pretty fucking basic and often times they're damn near meaningless. Not to mention they often repeat themselves throughout the damn song.

[Phoenix Dark]

Both producers you named are classically trained musical artists. Also, you forget to mention Kanye West, who has quite a few musical arrangements to his credit. It goes without saying that most successful producers are pretty damn good at playing regular instruments. If making beats is so easy, why don't you do it? There is plenty of musical integrity in rap. I think there's just a lot of racist/ignorant bias that lends it to be shat on.

Link? I don't believe that for a second. Perhaps Dre, who I know can arrange his own music. And please, Kanye doesn't compose anything. From my understanding he can't even play an instrument. Once again, link?

Laffy taffy has some pretty clever use of poetic devices. Not to mention it all rhymes, and it's said to a beat. Again, if the lyrics in these songs are so bad, and so easy to make why don't you do it yourself and make some quick money and at the same time score some pussy?

Clevel use of poetic devices? Tell me, what's clever about this

I'm lookin fa Mrs. Bubble Gum
I'm Mr. Chik-O-Stick
I wanna (dun dun dunt) (oh)
Cuz you so thick
Gurlz call me Jolly Rancher (Oh)
Cuz I stay so hard
You can suck me for a long time
(Oh my god!)
Gurl dis ain't no dance flo'
Dis a candy sto'
And I'm really geeked up
And I got mo' dro
I pop, I roll
It's soft I know


?

Lots of rock lyrics are basic, yea. But it's hard to look down on rock when compared to a genre not known for any musical talent

[Van Cruncheon]

poetic device

tbs is to educated literary analysis what pd is to movie criticism and political observation

[Phoenix Dark]

poetic device

tbs is to educated literary analysis what pd is to movie criticism and political observation

Clearly the brilliance of these lines are over your heard Doug:

Cum on trick cum on trick
Here go Mr. Chocolate
I like da way you break it down
Waddle, stop you watchin me
Laffy taffy I'm likin' dis
Big ol a** you shakin b****
Close yo mouth and don't say s***
Bend on ova and hit a split
Work dat pole and work it well
Stacks on deck, yo ankles swell
Gurl let me touch ya
I will neva tell
Security gaurd don't scare nobody
Damn right I touched dat h**
All da money just hit da flo'
D4L I'm ready to go
H** can't even shake no mo
Dey tired out
Lets ride out

[Van Cruncheon]

well, the man knows how to eke every last angle out of a single metaphor, for sure 

that said, here's my semi-credible observations, given that i'm a fan of both:

1) there's a lot of legitimately poetic rappers out there, but the best get little relative airplay
2) rock also has some incredibly talented lyricists, in roughly the same percentage
3) rap emphasizes lyrics whereas they're largely unnecessary to rock's appeal, so it hurts more when the large percentage of crap rap lyrics get airplay. i suppose you might be able to parallelize riffs and some of rap's lyrical hooks, but eh.

[The Fake Shemp]

I had a long conversation with DJ Fuckin' Kool, whom even said that modern day black cats can't rap worth shit and as so - the music sucks.  He's selling out your people.

Wait, who the fuck are we kidding, you're as white as Shake, Ken.

[Phoenix Dark]

Perhaps TVC will appreciate this. Courtesy of Young Jeezy, the Bob Dylan of our time

Patty cake, patty cake, microwave
These suckas make a square, damn I'm paid (ha ha)
I'm so cool, but I'm so hot, and I'm, I'm so fly, and you, you're so not (nope)
Show me what you're workin' wit just like that (like that)
Turn around, bend over, bring it back (bring it back)
Slow Mannie, Mannie Fresh bring it back (bring it back)
It's Mannie Fresh and Snowman, it's a wrap
Wrapped up in the club, yeah I'm so crazy
These other rappers actors like Patrick Swayze (ha ha)
I tried to tell 'em but these niggaz ain't hearin' me
Mossberg Pump ridin' shotgun literally (daaamn)
Live from the projects, you know what it is
Ay, Snowman, (what up), can I get a ad lib?
Get the club crunk, can't take that from me
Ain't dropped yet, still got a lil' jon money

[Van Cruncheon]

tbs thinks allhiphop.com's manufactured slang is cool enough for his unimaginative ass to regurgitate here, so i wouldn't exactly trust his lyrical assessment -- as far as the internet goes, he might as well be white, suburban, and desperate for validation

[FlameOfCallandor]

I like Eminem.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, we assumed that.

[FlameOfCallandor]

His lyrics are pretty damn good, not to mention sincere.

Also do yall consider Beastie Boys Rappers? They get alot of praise.

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm seein' a pattern here

[Phoenix Dark]

TBS next time you want to use rap lyrics as examples of talent, you might want to pick better examples. Like for instance...

When the average minimum wage is $5.15
You best believe you gotta find a new ground to get cream
The white unemployment rate, is nearly more than triple for blacks
So frontliners got they gun in your back
Bubblin crack, jewel theft and robbery to combat poverty
And end up in the global jail economy
Stiffer stipulations attached to each sentence
Budget cutbacks but increased police presence
And even if you get out of prison still livin
Join the other five million under state supervision
This is business, no faces just lines and statistics
From your phone, your zip code, to S-S-I digits
The system break man child and women into figures
Two columns for who is and who ain't niggaz
Numbers is hardly real and they never have feelings
But you push too hard, even numbers got limits
Why did one straw break the camel's back? Here's the secret:
the million other straws underneath it - it's all mathematics

Or...

I'm seeing body after body and our mayor Giuliani
Ain't trying to see no black man turn into John Gotti
My daughter uses a potty so she's older now
Educated street knowledge I'ma mold her now
Trick her little dope buying young girls tringes
Dealing with the dope fiend binges
Seeing syringes in the veins
Hard to explain how I maintain
The crack smoke makes my brain feel so strange
Breaking days on the set no sweat from cold met
Can't bag yet because's still wet
But when I dry back in five at a time
I can clock about nine on the check cashing line
I had to first on the third
Rehearsed that's my word
Thinking the Ds knew my first name
Should I quit? Shit no!
Even though they had me scared
Yo they gotta eight I gotta teck with air holes

[FlameOfCallandor]

Best lyrics ever.


Girls - all I really want is girls
And in the morning it's girls
Cause in the evening it's girls

I like the way that they walk
And it's chill to hear them talk
And I can always make them smile
From White Castle to the Nile

Back in the day
There was this girl around the way
She liked by home-piece M.C.A.
He said he would not give her play
I asked him, "Please?" - he said, "You may."
Her pants were tight and that's ok
If she would dance - I would D.J.
We took a walk down to the bay


I hope she'll say, "Hey me and you should hit the hay!"
I asked her out - she said, "No way!"
I should have probably guessed her gay
So I broke North with no delay
I heard she moved real far away
That was two years ago this May
I seen her just the other day
Jockin' Mike D. to my dismay

Girls - to do the dishes
Girls - to clean up my room
Girls - to do the laundry
Girls - and in the bathroom
Girls - that's all I really want is girls
Two at a time - I want girls
With new wave hairdos - I want girls
I ought to whip out my - girls, girls, girls, girls, girls!

[Beezy]

i'm seein' a pattern here

What do you expect? It's FoC.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Whitey ford is also pretty good! House of pain was the shit!

[TakingBackSunday]

Was Chicken Noodle Soup mentioned yet?  Eh?

[Phoenix Dark]

Eminem and the Beastie Boys. Hm there's something about those two, I can't quite put my finger on the similarity...



On Eminem: when he first came out he was great. The Infinite record is just an amazing, classic east coast album. His first two major label releases are good too, especially Marshal Mathers LP. But he's been complete shit since then basically.

Listen to his flow now compared to his old one. He's taken more than a couple steps back. Whether it's the drugs or the lack of Dre beats, I don't know.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Yea the stuff he did with dre was fantastic.

What about the beastie boys?

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea the stuff he did with dre was fantastic.

What about the beastie boys?

Um, the new stuff with Dre is quite bad. The worse thing to happen to Eminem's career was 50 Cent. A few years ago even when Em was doing meh music he never stopped to levels of poser gang lyricism and party shit. Now he's trying to pull that shit off and it doesn't work.

It pisses me off because after Lose Yourself came out I honestly thought he was back; it's one of the greatest rap songs of the last few years, especially the flow change in the third verse. But then he comes out and drops his worse album yet  - Encore. Wow

[Christopher]

Because rap overglorifies the worst aspects of man, and gives an awful sterotype to black people.  I hate rap videos, if only for the hot girls:drool but still it's just so fucking trash.

mainstream rap imo is so trashy and stupid no wonder it's getting the flack it does, I mean just compare rap/hip hop to ten years ago where it was fun, fresh, and didnt' make black people seem like gangsters who care about drugs and fucking bitches.

[BlueTsunami]

Willco hit the nail on the head

Most worthwhile rappers either died out in the 90's or are straight up underground. All this mainstream Rap is bullshit and I haven't actively listened to the radio in a long time due to it.

At least rock sometimes touches on other issues besides skeet skeetin on chicks faces or dousin champagne on some chick in the club. Its all fluff.

[Van Cruncheon]

y'all hatin, thugs gettin' play while you masturbatin'

[Fresh Prince]

Let freedom ring with a buckshot, but not just yet
First we need to truly understand the nature of the threat
And a pale man walks in the threshold of darkness
Roughly 20,000 years ago the first humans evolved
With the phenotypical trait, genetic recessive
Blue eyes, blonde hair and white skin
Albinism apparently was a sin to the original man, africans
So the mutants traveled north of the equator
Called europeans later, the first race haters
So heres the devils alpha to the beta
Cause historys best qualified to teach one
Quoting german philosopher schopenhauer
Every white man is a faded or a bleached one
Migration created further mutation
Genetic drifts, evolution through recombination
Adaptation to the climate
As the caucus mountain man reverted to that of a primate
Savage neanderthals, until the late paleolithic age
Thats when the black grimaldi man came
With the symbol of the dragon, fire and art
Check cave paintings in france and spain to the venus of willendorf
Around 2000 b.c. southern russians migrate in small units
Those who travel west populated europe
Those who went east settled in iran, known as aryans
1500 b.c. some crossed the khyber pass into india and
Created hinduism, the first caste system, the origins of racism
A white dot on the forehead meant elite
The black dot - defeat; untrustable, untouchables
They wrote the holy vedas in sanskrit
Thats the language that created greek, german, latin and english

That is talent not only in terms of lyrics but just being able to deliver it. Historically incorrect but whatever.

[brawndolicious]

Why the fuck would instrumental knowledge matter when there's only four bass beats?

If you played an instrument you'd know that does not matter.

A lot of rappers do play an instrument because it's hard to beat-box and write at the same time.

The first rap was DJ's cutting songs at percussion breaks, lyrics were added on top so no, at first they didn't play an instrument.

TBS' point was more about how people will give no praise at all to rap without trying to find non-shitty rap.

[etiolate]

Because Rock doesn't try to blurt out a distinguished mentally-challenged illiterate catchphrase that has no relevance to anything and then ride it to a beverly hills condo.

I'm tired of giving rap a free pass, doing so has let the genre slip into absolute shite. 

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

Wait, who the fuck are we kidding, you're as white as Shake, Ken.

I am pretty white.

[The Black Stallion]

I think the song Grillz is a pretty good example of good, clever poetry that gets slighted because it's rap.

Oh, and there's the song "Whip Ya Head Boy!" by 50 Cent. Listen to that song. The imagery is vivid.

Lastly, Young Jeezy is probably the most quotable rapper in the last 2 years.

[Van Cruncheon]

spoken like the suburban white kid you are

[The Black Stallion]

spoken like the suburban white kid you are

YAAH YAHHH YAHHH! Fat bitch, and YAHHH YAHHH to your mouthbreathing daughter too!

[demi]

LOL, is that a popular song? That is hilarious.

YAHH BITCH YAHH

Is there an mp3 of that? LOL

[The Black Stallion]

LOL, is that a popular song? That is hilarious.

YAHH BITCH YAHH

Is there an mp3 of that? LOL

Soulja Boy is the most popular independent artist on MySpace. So yeah, he's pretty popular.

http://myspace.com/souljaboytellem

Just Got My Report Card is has pretty clever lyrics and a nice use of a sample.

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

God, you're such a loud mouthed little bitch.

[The Black Stallion]

God, you're such a loud mouthed little bitch.

Yeah, and you're a fat bitch that literally squeals like a pig. So what.

[Himu]

I have yet to hear a rock song that falls anywhere near the level of ignorance or plain stupidity as Laffy Taffy. Sorry.

One of the pillars of rap is lyricism. In the 80's guys in the city would attempt to best each other with the best and wittiest lyrics they could come up with; guys like Rakim really personified this. In the 90s the tradition was carried on by Nas, Biggie, etc. Today, the majority of rap is filled with cats who simply cannot rap, period. It's pathetic

qft

[The Black Stallion]

I have yet to hear a rock song that falls anywhere near the level of ignorance or plain stupidity as Laffy Taffy. Sorry.

One of the pillars of rap is lyricism. In the 80's guys in the city would attempt to best each other with the best and wittiest lyrics they could come up with; guys like Rakim really personified this. In the 90s the tradition was carried on by Nas, Biggie, etc. Today, the majority of rap is filled with cats who simply cannot rap, period. It's pathetic

qft

PD obviously hasn't heard to Industrial music or Death metal.

[The Fake Shemp]

You're talking about fringe sub-genres of rock that aren't even recognized by mainstream.

[Himu]

True enough, but is that shit mainstream rock? I don't know... When I compare mainstream rock and rap together, both are shit with  a few exceptions, but the thing that sticks out with mainstream rap is that the lyrics (the foundation behind rap) is often really really really bad. When you compare that to say, rock, usually you'll find a jam that's at least listenable, but when you hear bs like chicken noodle soup you want to kill yourself.

[The Black Stallion]

It's harder to write a good rap than it is to make a good rock song. I'm listening to Style Wars by Papoose and JR Writer, and let me tell you the things they're saying are on the upper crust of poetry and wit I've yet to hear in any rock song.