Ichirou vs. Powerslave: Genocide, Global Warming, Carson Daily

[BlueTsunami]

Keep it in here guys! The Outside link thread is for talking about how hot Dragona is and social commentary from Ferrariman on GAF.

Also, IRON MAN LOOKS SHIT HOT

[Tauntaun]

k? 

[Cheebs]

k? 

[Ichirou]

Lock this thread, I'm not discussing anything with that racist holocaust denier.  He's a delusional, ill-informed fanatic.  There's no convincing those sorts of people, no matter how much evidence you present (see also: creationists).

[Phoenix Dark]

He denied the Holocaust? Is he Arab or something

[Ichirou]

Armenian holocaust, not the more famous Jewish one (which is why he thinks he can get away with denying it, I guess).  It's a historically documented event which led to the deaths of 1 million Armenians at the hands of the Turkish government.  Armenia refuses to discuss it with Turkey because they don't have normalized political relations, which Powerslave uses to somehow justify that that means it didn't happen, never mind that it's been recognized by 28 countries, along with 40 out of 50 US states that have made some sort of official declaration saying that yes, the Armenian genocide did indeed occur.  Powerslave is convinced (or is trying to convince himself) that Turkey wants some sort of debate on the issue while completely ignoring the fact that whenever anyone in Turkey even brings it up, they get prosecuted on the charge of "insulting Turkishness", and several historians and protesters in Turkey have been assassinated for saying the Armenian genocide occurred.

I'm really not discussing it anymore because the guy is obviously a paranoid loon.  As soon as I started saying that the Armenian genocide happened his reaction was "Why do you hate Turks?  What do you have against Turkey? What nationality are you!?"  I'm sure he's convinced I'm some sort of Armenian propagandist.

[Boogie]

[TVC15]

STOP ARGYUING CUNTS LISTEN TO GUNTEHR

[youtube=425,350]DbYtqAWDF2U[/youtube]

[Cheebs]

[Phoenix Dark]

Who is that guy? He looks like an immigrant

[Scurvy Stan]

Who is that guy? He looks like an immigrant

Gunther is swedish.

[Bloodwake]

OOOH YOU TOUCH MY TRALALA

[TVC15]

Who is that guy? He looks like an immigrant

It's Bertolt Brecht.  Same person as my GAF avatar.

[Ichirou]

Goddamn it, I'd just managed to have this moved down to the second page. 

[Phoenix Dark]

Is he Turkish?

[Ichirou]

There's a small group of people on NeoGAF who defend Turkey's honor against what they call the "Armenian hoax", and yeah, they're all turkish, including Powerslave.

[Candyflip]

I was pleased to notice that for the first time ever, my history book this year actually mentioned the Armenian Genocide. Nevermind that the rest of the book is pretty much trash.

That said, I'm not sure how anyone can really deny this.

(Not safe for the faint of heart)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[bud]

there is no such thing as global warning 

[Tauntaun]

I noticed Carson Daily's name in the heading, is he the new suspected anti-christ/dick clark?

[Powerslave]

I'm really not discussing it anymore because the guy is obviously a paranoid loon.  As soon as I started saying that the Armenian genocide happened his reaction was "Why do you hate Turks?  What do you have against Turkey? What nationality are you!?"  I'm sure he's convinced I'm some sort of Armenian propagandist.

Again another one of your lies. "As soon"..

I once again call you out to say these extreme things you claim about me on GAF. Let's continue it there. Should I bump the latest Turkey thread? Please say yes and I do it instantly.

[Ichirou]

"PLEASE, I AM ALL ALONE IN MY MADNESS ON EVILBORE, COME TO GAF WHERE I HAVE MY TURKISH POSSE AND WE CAN ALL HOUND YOUR ASS"

Fuck you, racist.

[Powerslave]

You are a racist, for hating almost every Turk out there because they deny this genocide.

[Ichirou]

I don't hate turks, you idiot.  I just hate people who try to deny history to somehow redeem their home country or ethnicity.  It's evil.  Good job trying to turn yourself back into the victim, though.  "Why do you hate turks?  Why do you say the Armenian genocide happened? Why? Why? WAAAAAH"  What a baby.

Are you even aware how stupid you sound?  In the other thread, you said you'd studied the Armenian genocide and had come to your beliefs after reviewing the evidence.  Then you changed your story and said you really didn't know shit so I should go to discuss it on GAF with people who really know stuff.  So basically your opinion is based on your blind beliefs, not any actual hard evidence.

[Powerslave]

Like I said, 99% of the Turks deny this genocide, which means you hate all of them. Hating almost everyone from an entire country is called racist.

Denying this genocide has actually nothing to do with being racist. Your only intention is to rile people up against me on this forum.

[Powerslave]

repost from the outside link thread.

Ichirou still hasn't told how saying "armenia refuses a debate"  is being racist. Oh well, that's what you get when you argue with dumbasses. I don't expect a clever answer for this anyway. Maybe some crying and insults towards Turks and that's it.
Besides you also haven't told what nationality you are.

More paranoid bullshit.  I'm not Armenian, if that's what you're trying to ask.

And P.S., calling it "the Armenian myth" and saying Armenians are lying when talking about genocide smacks of racism.

Cheebs is right, I'm not going to keep discussing this with a fanatic.  This has about the same intellectual value as discussing civil rights with a KKK member.

Paranoid....haha. So let's sum this all up ok. You call me all sorts of names and claim things about me which you just pulled out of your ass, and when I debunk all your theories about me (being raised by Turkish propaganda or whatever bullshit you said) by saying I didn't have any family/relative/friends who even talked to me about this. So what do you do next? "uhhh ban this filth, holocaust-denier pig scum" .....completely ignoring my previous said things. You continued calling me the most extreme things unjustifiable. When you got in a tight position you just cried out like a bitch to the mods. Way to go.

You hate people who deny the Armenian myth right? I'm sure you knew this already but that's like 99% of all the Turks. Which means you hate almost all Turks, because they are so-called 'racist'... and that's makes you a racist.
Go on now, and say that you absolutely love the remaining 1% or tell me again about your "Turkish friends". Worthless..
You picked out me on this somewhat deserted forum with no other Turks. No wonder you don't say these things on GAF. Other people there would rip you apart.

[Ichirou]

You're such a slave to the power of Turkish propaganda.  It's sad, really, but at least your username is perfectly appropriate.

Do you realize how you're basically arguing AGAINST the validity of your stupid "Armenian hoax" theory by admitting that the only people who buy it are Turks, the same people whose government was responsible for the genocide?  I wonder why that is, hmmm?

[Powerslave]

Are you even aware how stupid you sound?  In the other thread, you said you'd studied the Armenian genocide and had come to your beliefs after reviewing the evidence.  Then you changed your story and said you really didn't know shit so I should go to discuss it on GAF with people who really know stuff.  So basically your opinion is based on your blind beliefs, not any actual hard evidence.

Just because I read about these things doesn't mean I fully understand everything about it. I am even so honest to say that I don't even have the full knowledge to discuss this. And like I said 40 times already, my only "belief" is that Armenia refuses a debate. Which IS an actual stonehard evidence. You are full of lies and make things up to at least have a comeback.

[Ichirou]

Then why do you call it the Armenian myth if the only thing you actually know is that Armenia won't discuss it with Turkey?

[Powerslave]

And nobody cried during this discussion but you. You begged the mods over and over to ban me because you had such a hard time getting back at me (debunked your claims that I grew up in Turkish propaganda anyone?)

[Ichirou]

And nobody cried during this discussion but you. You begged the mods over and over to ban me because you had such a hard time getting back at me (debunked your claims that I grew up in Turkish propaganda anyone?)

Wow, do you lack reading comprehension much?  That would explain how you believe something as stupid as the idea of an Armenian hoax.  How could I knowledgeably claim you grew up with Turkish propaganda?  I proposed it as a possible theory that would explain away your stupidity. Wow, you're really grasping at straws here.

[Powerslave]

Then why do you keep repeating it? I'm sorry, but while your "slave to the power of turkish propaganda" really made me laugh because it was truly funny, in reality you just keep repeating this to get me mad.
You don't know anything about me. The whole reason why we can't get along is that you assume things. If you actually got to know me better, you would see that I am against nationalism and patriotism more than anyone else. All I'm saying is, all these 'facts' about this genocide comes from American and Armenian archives.

When you said..

""Do you realize how you're basically arguing AGAINST the validity of your stupid "Armenian hoax" theory by admitting that the only people who buy it are Turks, the same people whose government was responsible for the genocide?  I wonder why that is, hmmm?""

...you really couldn't realize the irony in it. All the information people know about is from the American and Armenian archives. No one cares to look into this story from both sides. I am not denying this because I am Turkish, and obviously would choose the Turks' side, but only because of the only stoneproof fact that an international debate never occurred. I want this issue to be settled forever. If it comes out that Turkey actually did commit a genocide, I'm fine with it, if otherwise, the same. You don't realize how tired and sick the Turkish people become because of all this.

Let me be the one proposing this : let's stop arguing in an offensive way and stop the name calling. It's childish and only meant for getting eachother angry. We should start being more civil.

[Ichirou]

The facts that support the genocide don't come from American or Armenian archives, they come from contemporary accounts by people who witnessed, Turkish government documents, European archives, etc.

Let me ask you a question, and please try to answer it as well as you can.  Don't you think there's a huge contradiction with how Turkey claims it wants to deal with this issue internationally and how it deals with it domestically?  Why do you suppose they say they want an international debate and then clamp down on any person who wants to create a domestic debate by prosecuting them?

[Boogie]

From my understanding (and it's not my area of expertise), the historical consensus behind the Armenian genocide is on the same level as that of the Jewish Holocaust.

Thus relegating Powerslave and Remedy to Batshit-Crazy-ville.

And pointing to the fact that Armenia doesn't push the issue as proof of your position just shows you don't know shit about the geopolitics of Central Asia.

[Powerslave]

I’m going to answer this by logic.

Turkey has been struggling ever since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. A lot of issues were at hand during that time and we faced many problems to solve (some of them which still continues). The term ‘sick man of Europe’ comes to mind.
I have already said that I don’t really approve Turkey’s approach on dealing with this subject domestically i.e. prosecuting and disallowing people to deny it. However I do think it is very understandable why they are doing it. They want to stop spreading the lies (disease) further as much as possible. Worst case scenario is having your own people misled and influenced by in-credible theories regarding this.
Why is Germany acting so strongly against Holocaust-deniers? They are tired of their black history with Nazism and want to leave it behind. Why bothering with this ‘free speech’ and only getting other people to start thinking about the idea that the Holocaust didn’t happen?
The same thing can be applied to Turkey, I believe very much.

I want to quote Bernard Lewis, “"the most influential postwar historian of Islam and the Middle East."” :

“The deniers of Holocaust have a purpose: to prolong Nazism and to return to Nazi legislation. Nobody wants the 'Young Turks' back, and nobody wants to have back the Ottoman Law. What do the Armenians want? The Armenians want to benefit from both worlds. On the one hand, they speak with pride of their struggle against the Ottoman despotism, while on the other hand, they compare their tragedy to the Jewish Holocaust. I do not accept this. I do not say that the Armenians did not suffer terribly. But I find enough cause for me to contain their attempts to use the Armenian massacres to diminish the worth of the Jewish Holocaust and to relate to it instead as an ethnic dispute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis

[etiolate]

Boogie do you ever sing the tralala song for your lady?

[Boogie]

Boogie do you ever sing the tralala song for your lady?

the what song?


Powerslave, what exactly is your position?  Are you denying that the massacres of Armenians took place?

[Mupepe]

Boogie do you ever sing the tralala song for your lady?

the what song?


Powerslave, what exactly is your position?  Are you denying that the massacres of Armenians took place?

yes he is.

and apparently prohibiting free speech rocks and is acceptable!

[Boogie]

Boogie do you ever sing the tralala song for your lady?

the what song?


Powerslave, what exactly is your position?  Are you denying that the massacres of Armenians took place?

yes he is.

and apparently prohibiting free speech rocks and is acceptable!

Well then it's absurd to cite Bernard Lewis, when Lewis doesn't deny that the massacres took place.

[Ichirou]

Powerslave, your answer brings me to another question.  What makes you think that Turkey would go into any sort of debate open-minded and willing to look at its own history when it's obvious from their domestic policies that they've already decided what happened?  Like you said, the government's position is that the genocide did not occur and the laws are there to reinforce that viewpoint and to discourage dissent.  So why would Armenia expect to be dealt with evenhandedly or fairly in any international debate?

[Powerslave]

Powerslave, what exactly is your position?  Are you denying that the massacres of Armenians took place?

No. There was indeed an incredible amount of Armenians who died (fun fact: a lot of Turks died during that time too but no one cares about them, I mean they are just Turks am I right) but it was the result of a battle that took place back then. That's basically what this all boils down to. No one, and I literally mean no one is denying that a lot of Armenians died but the description 'genocide' is simply the only thing we are opposing against. Don't you know that the Ottoman Empire was already at war on multiple fronts during those periods? And that WWI was actually taking place at the same time?

Powerslave, your answer brings me to another question.  What makes you think that Turkey would go into any sort of debate open-minded and willing to look at its own history when it's obvious from their domestic policies that they've already decided what happened?  Like you said, the government's position is that the genocide did not occur and the laws are there to reinforce that viewpoint and to discourage dissent.  So why would Armenia expect to be dealt with evenhandedly or fairly in any international debate?

I don't know what you're implying with this. "Open minded"? So you mean that Turkey is close-minded about this and is not fully convinced of their stand?
Imagine an incident in which a person is being set-up by a group of people. He knows it's not the truth but a large crowd has 'evidence' and is witness that he actually did commit a crime.
Why would any falsely accused person go to court to defend himself after all these claims? The truth?
And I can't believe you talked about how it is Armenia who would be expected to be treated fairly. Wasn't it Turkey who everybody pointed their fingers at?

[Ichirou]

Powerslave, your answer brings me to another question.  What makes you think that Turkey would go into any sort of debate open-minded and willing to look at its own history when it's obvious from their domestic policies that they've already decided what happened?  Like you said, the government's position is that the genocide did not occur and the laws are there to reinforce that viewpoint and to discourage dissent.  So why would Armenia expect to be dealt with evenhandedly or fairly in any international debate?

I don't know what you're implying with this. "Open minded"? So you mean that Turkey is close-minded about this and is not fully convinced of their stand?
Imagine an incident in which a person is being set-up by a group of people. He knows it's not the truth but a large crowd has 'evidence' and is witness that he actually did commit a crime.
Why would any falsely accused person go to court to defend himself after all these claims? The truth?
And I can't believe you talked about how it is Armenia who would be expected to be treated fairly. Wasn't it Turkey who everybody pointed their fingers at?

Here is where the paranoia sets in.  Where do all these people come from?  Why are they witnesses to something that supposedly didn't happen?  How do they benefit?  What benefits do you think the 28 countries that have recognized the Armenian genocide receive?  Absolutely nothing.  Let's face it, Turkey's not a very important country in the large scheme of things.  There's really nothing to gain by saying its government did something it didn't actually do.

And that's not considering all the evidence that proves the genocide occurred, which it sounds like you haven't even bothered reading about.

This debate has been enlightening at least in that I've learned a little bit how you conspiracy theorists wackjobs think, and how you are willing to bend, twist, and outright break logic just so the world somehow fits your point of view.

[Boogie]

Powerslave, what exactly is your position?  Are you denying that the massacres of Armenians took place?

No. There was indeed an incredible amount of Armenians who died (fun fact: a lot of Turks died during that time too but no one cares about them, I mean they are just Turks am I right) but it was the result of a battle that took place back then. That's basically what this all boils down to. No one, and I literally mean no one is denying that a lot of Armenians died but the description 'genocide' is simply the only thing we are opposing against. Don't you know that the Ottoman Empire was already at war on multiple fronts during those periods? And that WWI was actually taking place at the same time?

The Armenians and Turks fought a battle?    proof pls.  Considering there were only half a million military Ottoman deaths in World War 1, I'd be interested in seeing how much damage the Armenians were able to do in this "battle"

@ "Don't you know that the Ottoman Empire was already at war on multiple fronts during those periods? And that WWI was actually taking place at the same time?"

Why no, my history degree from the University of Toronto has me completely unaware that there was a  war going on from 1914-1918

[Ichirou]

Boogie, I know you're a busy guy, but please correct Powerslave.  I took history courses so I know the basics in regards to the Armenian genocide, but...what I don't get on Powerslave's part is his belief that there's all these files in Armenia that prove the genocide didn't happen, when the genocide was initiated by the turkish government - I mean, doesn't it stand to reason that all these files would be in Turkey, NOT Armenia?

[Boogie]

Boogie, I know you're a busy guy, but please correct Powerslave.  I took history courses so I know the basics in regards to the Armenian genocide, but...what I don't get on Powerslave's part is his belief that there's all these files in Armenia that prove the genocide didn't happen, when the genocide was initiated by the turkish government - I mean, doesn't it stand to reason that all these files would be in Turkey, NOT Armenia?

The problem is, he's simply going to fall back on all the justifications given by the Turkish government, of which there will be no independent verification (other than his selective quoting of historians like Lewis).

If I point to any evidence, he will simply ignore it or creatively deny it.  We've already seen some of this.  For example, he's already said in this thread:

"All the information people know about is from the American and Armenian archives"

Which is utter bullshit.  Flat-out wrong.  Not to mention ridiculous that he implies that American archives aren't credible, considering that the United States was a neutral in the war until 1917.

[Cheebs]

It is amazing how people (like Powerslave) can still be brainwashed by a government in this day in age where it is so easy to access historical facts such as with the internet.

It's fascinating, almost.

[Boogie]

It is amazing how people (like Powerslave) can still be brainwashed by a government in this day in age where it is so easy to access historical facts such as with the internet.

It's fascinating, almost.

Well, the problem is, on the internet, everything is equal, and it's hard to separate the truth from the bullshit.

Like on GAF when I was arguing the justification for the atomic bombings with xabre, and he posted an essay against the bombings.  I dug a little deeper and found out that the author of the article was a Holocaust denier and a racist.

[Cheebs]

still, overall in this day and age it is amazing how a government can have suxch brainwash like control over a country.

[Tauntaun]

still, overall in this day and age it is amazing how a government can have suxch brainwash like control over a country.

word, it's bad.  people don't want to think for themselves though.

[Ichirou]

This is really why I didn't want to have a debate in the first place and I why I asked BlueTsunami to lock this thread.  When you're dealing with someone that's convinced there's a huge conspiracy against his country and will basically deflect every bit of evidence that proves otherwise, there can't be any rational discussion because there's no way to convince him no matter how hard you try.  I'm guessing this is one of the reasons why Armenia refuses to get caught up into this argument with Turkey.

[Powerslave]

And that's not considering all the evidence that proves the genocide occurred, which it sounds like you haven't even bothered reading about.

I remember you not reading that Open NGO letter and the few other sites I posted, so you're not exactly in the position to say this to me.

This debate has been enlightening at least in that I've learned a little bit how you conspiracy theorists wackjobs think, and how you are willing to bend, twist, and outright break logic just so the world somehow fits your point of view.

Is this another one of your wikipedia quotes? I went back and re-read the entry about this Armenian genocide and the few other genocide pages and was constantly smiling when I read something you apparently quoted exactly from there. Just great haha.

One thing you do best is keep blaming me. You were the one who brought this up out of nowhere when you and I both knew that nothing good would come out of this. You stand by your convinced point and I by mine. Like I said before, you don't do this on GAF because other people there have more knowledge about this and would make it hard for you to continue the debate (like you have proven earlier in the "Journalist killed in Turkey" thread).
I am enlightened too about something I got to know from this debate. You hate about 65 million people from one nation. That more than enough reason to understand what you truly are. You can fill this in yourself.

[Ichirou]

I've never quoted Wikipedia, wtf are you talking about?  And if I had, I would put it in quotation marks.

More ridiculousness from you.  First you try to discredit me by saying I hate Turkey, now I'm plagiarizing wikipedia.  Such bullshit, and yet you refuse to look at the facts.  I guess it would be hard to expect more from a racist loon such as yourself.

BTW, do the 28 countries that recognize the genocide hate Turkish people too?  That's a lot of people that hate Turkey, according to your wacked-out brand of logic...

Will someone please go ahead and ban this filth?

P.S. Something good came out of this.  Now a few people on this board know what a deluded racist asshole you are.

[Flannel Boy]

I hate turkey, chicken is so much better.

[Candyflip]

How about posting some proof, Powerslave?

[Ichirou]

How about posting some proof, Powerslave?

His proof consists of:

1. A letter insulting Armenia and calling them liars and then saying they need to do an international debate on the issue.

2.  ...and that's it.  He has nothing else.

[Cheebs]

How about posting some proof, Powerslave?

He is brainwashed by his government, I don't get why people are still arguing with him. I pity powerslave, it is  depressing in this day and age government's can still exert brainwash like control.

[Ichirou]

Sadly, this sort of historical negationism is not exclusive to the Armenian genocide.  The Japanese government is trying to do something similar with the "comfort women" situation.  And heck, if you want to see a government that's totally brainwashed its people, you have to look no further than North Korea.

It really is enlightening to look at someone like Powerslave, ignoring all evidence to the contrary and clinging to his ridiculous belief because to acknowledge otherwise would destroy his perfect little universe that exists only inside his head.

[Boogie]

Like I said before, you don't do this on GAF because other people there have more knowledge about this and would make it hard for you to continue the debate

Who, Remedy?

[Ichirou]

And Kapsama.  You know, the professional "Armenian hoax" historians.

[Powerslave]

How about posting some proof, Powerslave?

I could post that NGO letter I mentioned earlier and this website http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/index.htm
but what would it matter anyway. As if anyone's gonna read it.

Sadly, this sort of historical negationism is not exclusive to the Armenian genocide.  The Japanese government is trying to do something similar with the "comfort women" situation.  And heck, if you want to see a government that's totally brainwashed its people, you have to look no further than North Korea.

It really is enlightening to look at someone like Powerslave, ignoring all evidence to the contrary and clinging to his ridiculous belief because to acknowledge otherwise would destroy his perfect little universe that exists only inside his head.

Haven't I said earlier that I want this to be settled forever? Haven't I said that if a internation debate (with supervision from other instances/operations) happens and Turkey is found guilty, that I'm happy with it? Haven't I already said countless times before that I have limited knowledge about this and that's why I shouldn't even go into a debate about this? My only 'proof' is that (and I repeat myself again..) Turkey, the country found guilty wants an int debate, and Armenia, the victim country doesn't want to because they're happy with how things are now (majority of the world on their side).
I haven't read that website (link above) in a long while but there were some pretty good arguments written there too.

[Boogie]

Turkey, the country found guilty wants an int debate,

YES, OBVIOUSLY THEY WANT A DEBATE, AS CAN BE SEEN IN THEIR SUPRESSION OF THE DEBATE WITHIN TURKEY ITSELF.

durr....