International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster

[Madrun Badrun]

https://twitter.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1205168122325544961

what a schmuck

[agrajag]

Tories projected a major win with an 86 seat majority.

[thisismyusername]

Tories projected a major win with an 86 seat majority.

Welp, since the Brits have seen their Brexit shadow and that means six more years of Brexit exit drama: Guess we're getting Trump for another 4.

[Occam]

If this turns out to be close to the final result, Brexit is a go.



(Parliament has 650 seats total.)

[OnlyRegret]

Tories projected a major win with an 86 seat majority.

Why bother with these polls since they tend to be so useless.
Cons dropped hard? Sike!

[OnlyRegret]

https://twitter.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1205168122325544961

what a schmuck

lol

[Occam]

Tories projected a major win with an 86 seat majority.

Why bother with these polls since they tend to be so useless.
Cons dropped hard? Sike!

The polls actually didn't show them drop, they showed Labour rise. Have a look at the link I posted earlier.

[Skullfuckers Anonymous]

Well, I should listen to my girlfriend and not check the twitter or forum thread.

Genuinely at this point, seeing my own mother's racism and that she said she even want to sacrifice the NHS so the 'pakis and immigrants' can't use it, as well as watching my loved ones and friends who may suffer even more under a Tory government, I wish i just have the balls to commit suicide.

I'm half Pakistani, I'm an ex Muslim, I work in an extremely volatile industry where under the tories, things might change for the worse with less regulation if the tories had their way.

I'm so scared and frighten. But unfortunately life goes on and it's back to survival mode for the next five years.

My only hope at this point is the TGA trailers not being disappointing.

That and my girlfriend keeping me sane.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.resetera.com/threads/uk-general-election-2019-polls-open-today-7am-10pm-get-out-and-vote.158714/page-13#post-27324611

[close]

[OnlyRegret]

I'm so scared and frighten. But unfortunately life goes on and it's back to survival mode for the next five years.

My only hope at this point is the TGA trailers not being disappointing.

 

[Nintex]

LMAO Corbyn wrecked what the hell.

Boris fucking did it. Holy shit. The stumbling mess of an idiot might have pulled off the biggest electoral win for the Tories since 1970 

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1205252534736171010
Litmas

Conservatives won a seat that has never voted anyone but Labour in its existence. 

The Labour party has perished, it has ceased to exist

[Pissy F Benny]

At least all my grandparents had the good grace to die before they had the chance to vote against my best interests 

[Nintex]

Blair's former seat
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1205284037209788416

Kinda strange considering the youth turnout hoopla posts earlier today. I guess the youth broke for the Tories too 

The only thing that is keeping Labour from losing even more seats is the Conservative vote split with the Brexit party. In some cases Brexit + Con > Labour vote.

[kingv]

Well, I should listen to my girlfriend and not check the twitter or forum thread.

Genuinely at this point, seeing my own mother's racism and that she said she even want to sacrifice the NHS so the 'pakis and immigrants' can't use it, as well as watching my loved ones and friends who may suffer even more under a Tory government, I wish i just have the balls to commit suicide.

I'm half Pakistani, I'm an ex Muslim, I work in an extremely volatile industry where under the tories, things might change for the worse with less regulation if the tories had their way.

I'm so scared and frighten. But unfortunately life goes on and it's back to survival mode for the next five years.

My only hope at this point is the TGA trailers not being disappointing.

That and my girlfriend keeping me sane.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.resetera.com/threads/uk-general-election-2019-polls-open-today-7am-10pm-get-out-and-vote.158714/page-13#post-27324611

[close]

Tell your mom she liked Pakis enough to take Paki dick and slam the door.

- British Reeees may be even more dramatic than American ones.
- it’s going to be funny when they still can’t get fucking brexit done.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/tezilyas/status/1205270135575109632

Ah yes, blame the Libdems for your horrible result. maybe it was ze Russians!

[team filler]

aren't the libdems just controlled opposition like the do nothing dems in U.S.?

[Occam]

Corbyn is awful and always has been. His own party couldn't get rid of him even though they tried.
So with his lust for power, Corbyn has now doomed his country.

By the way, this result should not come as a huge surprise; back in October the majority was in favor of Brexit.

To quote my own post from October 17:
"I read today that apparently now 54% of Britons are in favor of Brexit, so please let them have it."

[BisMarckie]

lol labour btfo by bumbling boris

boris is the embodiment of what the edgier kids call clown world and he still wins

[Nintex]

It is just the general trend of the old social democratic parties of Europe collapsing and identity politics and climate driven 'Greens' and green policies not appealing to the working classes.
Corbyn is a symptom not the cause. The cause is the left leaving the middle and working classes chasing an ever smaller voter base.
The conservatives have pretty much given up on ideology in general and are successfully re-branding themselves as the party of the working classes.

Watch the same thing happen in mainland Europe with the EU council going in hard with a 'green deal' the general populace is not excited for.
If I didn't know better I'd think that all those opposition parties and politicians were paid off to keep the conservatives in power or propel anti-EU parties into power.

It really wouldn't have hurt the EU to wait a day or 2 until after the UK election to reveal their Green deal plans.
But those self righteous cunts just put on their blinders while they're being orally pleasured by the mainstream media.

[OnlyRegret]

I didn't see people being mad about Corbyn before this election 

[team filler]

the uk is still full of racist white people? who would have guessed! 

[El Babua]

It is just the general trend of the old social democratic parties of Europe collapsing and identity politics and climate driven 'Greens' and green policies not appealing to the working classes.
Corbyn is a symptom not the cause. The cause is the left leaving the middle and working classes chasing an ever smaller voter base.
The conservatives have pretty much given up on ideology in general and are successfully re-branding themselves as the party of the working classes.

Lmao

[Occam]

Looks like it's going to be a dark Friday the 13th for Britain.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/JoshuaYJackson/status/1205311741057523712

https://twitter.com/JoshuaYJackson/status/1205317911201476608

 

[Tripon]

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1205333032762331136

[Raist]

So did Nigel Dodds.

The DUP is getting BTFO. SNP is surging.


Goodbye Union Jack

[team filler]

the whites hate the browns and blacks so much, they'll strip themselves of good healthcare to avoid sharing it with them 

[jorma]

Nintex Is Stupid but he's right about the collapse of social democracy. Europeans are going to have to familiarize themselves with things like deductibles

Nintex has a point, but you don't. The right wing isn't going to "rebrand themselves as the option for the working class" by removing tax funded healtchare any time soon. Don't be a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

If you didn't know, they are mainly doing it by being "tough on crime and immigration". That's not new, the new thing is the voter base responding to it. Combined with a shrinking number of voters who actually identify as working class, of course. Because the working class jobs are both fewer in numbers, and the people who do these jobs nowadays aren't eligible to vote.

[OnlyRegret]

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone not favourable to tough on crime policies, in the real world. Regardless of other political affiliations.

Poke and prod a bit and they might be uncomfortable with mandatory minimums for drug possession. But whenever a child abuse or the sort case pops up, commentary is usual a unanimous castrate the fucker.

[OnlyRegret]

Oh yeah, the provincial Cons here float the idea of privatizing health care, it goes over poorly with basically everyone. Even their (some atleast) ardent supporters.

[jorma]

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone not favourable to tough on crime policies, in the real world. Regardless of other political affiliations.

Poke and prod a bit and they might be uncomfortable with mandatory minimums for drug possession. But whenever a child abuse or the sort case pops up, commentary is usual a unanimous castrate the fucker.

That's true, but the "new" part is where the voter base is abandoning the left because the crime and immigration issues are becoming more important to them. A few decades ago they'd say the same things, but not to the point where they'd vote right wing to get it done.

Oh yeah, the provincial Cons here float the idea of privatizing health care, it goes over poorly with basically everyone. Even their (some atleast) ardent supporters.

private healthcare options is one thing, and we already have them here, but they are still tax funded and they aren't going to be replaced by insurance based systems anytime soon

[VomKriege]

Ninth day of the French transport strike and no imminent end in sight, with the biggest national moderate union finally joining in (though only on some parts of the reform). Not clear trains will run smoothly for Christmas.

[Occam]

Again, Corbyn was awful. Instead of running with a clear anti-Brexit message, his strategy since 2016 was to basically sit it out and have the Tories fail. Instead he offered obsolete socialist ideas, which was quite obviously not what voters wanted. For the majority, the choice seemed to boil down to Socialism or Brexit. People don't want socialism, so they chose the lesser evil.
With a modern and more moderate outlook and leadership and the direct promise to cancel Brexit, Labour could have defeated Johnson.
This should be a lesson to America: If the choice is (incorrectly) perceived to be Trump or Socialism, most Americans will go with Trump.

[benjipwns]

Not clear trains will run smoothly for Christmas.

Good. The trains running on time is textbook fascism.

[OnlyRegret]

Again, Corbyn was awful. Instead of running with a clear anti-Brexit message, his strategy since 2016 was to basically sit it out and have the Tories fail. Instead he offered obsolete socialist ideas, which was quite obviously not what voters wanted. For the majority, the choice seemed to boil down to Socialism or Brexit. People don't want socialism, so they chose the lesser evil.
With a modern and more moderate outlook and leadership and the direct promise to cancel Brexit, Labour could have defeated Johnson.
This should be a lesson to America: If the choice is (incorrectly) perceived to be Trump or Socialism, most Americans will go with Trump.

Socialism no longer has a definition insofar as political discourse is concerned. Either it's just Bad and involves things like simultaneously being a Nazi government that is open borders and pro gays. Or it's just Good and is just "capitalism with rules".
Some of these terms just have too much baggage, and this isn't accidental of course. Loading it up with bad associations poisons the topic.

[benjipwns]

Again, Corbyn was awful. Instead of running with a clear anti-Brexit message, his strategy since 2016 was to basically sit it out and have the Tories fail. Instead he offered obsolete socialist ideas, which was quite obviously not what voters wanted. For the majority, the choice seemed to boil down to Socialism or Brexit. People don't want socialism, so they chose the lesser evil.
With a modern and more moderate outlook and leadership and the direct promise to cancel Brexit, Labour could have defeated Johnson.

The Leave Parties got 57% of the vote in the EU elections.

The Liberal Democrats are for stopping Brexit in all forms, remaining and against "Socialism" and they got one fewer seat than last time, overall lost ten seats and their leader was the first party leader to not be re-elected in over a century.

[OnlyRegret]

Honestly, people need to accept that Brits seem to by the majority be all up for the brexit rollercoaster. Who exactly is to blame for that thing kicking off?

[Occam]

Rupert Murdoch and Putin, it would seem.

[Occam]

Again, Corbyn was awful. Instead of running with a clear anti-Brexit message, his strategy since 2016 was to basically sit it out and have the Tories fail. Instead he offered obsolete socialist ideas, which was quite obviously not what voters wanted. For the majority, the choice seemed to boil down to Socialism or Brexit. People don't want socialism, so they chose the lesser evil.
With a modern and more moderate outlook and leadership and the direct promise to cancel Brexit, Labour could have defeated Johnson.

The Leave Parties got 57% of the vote in the EU elections.

The Liberal Democrats are for stopping Brexit in all forms, remaining and against "Socialism" and they got one fewer seat than last time, overall lost ten seats and their leader was the first party leader to not be re-elected in over a century.

Lib Dems didn't stand a chance in this election; voters understood that a vote for them was a wasted vote. So it was "Socialism" or Brexit.

[benjipwns]

Their share of the vote went up from 7.4% to 11.5%, their highest mark since 2010. They also got 19.6% and second place in the EU election, their best performance in EU elections ever.

They're the major anti-Brexit Party. Labour never came out against it, Corbyn just said he'd do a referendum on the withdrawal agreement, the party is still for Leave officially.

[NekoFever]

So did Nigel Dodds.

The DUP is getting BTFO. SNP is surging.


Goodbye Union Jack

Nigel Dodds lost his seat to fucking SINN FEIN. That has to hurt.

Also LOL at his constituency deciding they'd rather not have a Westminster MP than have him.

[Ghoul]

I knew they'd win, but not like this, absolutely fucked everyone else. My only happiness is Jo and Chuka lost their seats.


Also Scotland about that second ref for your independence

[thisismyusername]

This should be a lesson to America: If the choice is (incorrectly) perceived to be Trump or Socialism, most Americans will go with Trump.

I think that's obvious to anyone with two working brain-cells (as much as I don't want that to happen).

I honestly don't get the "COMMUNISM BAD" mindset now a days. Nobody sensible is asking for a full communist government where breadlines/etc. happens. But having socialized safety-nets (guaranteed housing, food-on-the-table, healthcare) shouldn't scare folks. This shit is sensible for the lower-classes, especially. But because "socialism" or "communism" is thrown around, folks get all Joe McCarthy "I'M ONLY SIXTEEN A CAPITALIST! I'M ONLY A CAPITALIST!!" toward the idea. Which is pretty... cut your nose to spite your face... when a lot of these folks that vote against it would be the biggest benefits.

People are fucking dumb*. But I don't necessarily think socialized values are the problem. It's educating voters that is.

You're right in (my limited experience of Owen Jones blitzing my Twitter timeline of US liberals during UK hours) the sense that Jeremy did jack-shit. I mean, compared to Bernie (or Warren *retch*) he certainly didn't do anything beyond "oh well, I'm against Brexit!" which is a Hillary move.

*

Probably why I'm a misanthrope

[close]

[kingv]

This should be a lesson to America: If the choice is (incorrectly) perceived to be Trump or Socialism, most Americans will go with Trump.

I think that's obvious to anyone with two working brain-cells (as much as I don't want that to happen).

I honestly don't get the "COMMUNISM BAD" mindset now a days. Nobody sensible is asking for a full communist government where breadlines/etc. happens. But having socialized safety-nets (guaranteed housing, food-on-the-table, healthcare) shouldn't scare folks. This shit is sensible for the lower-classes, especially. But because "socialism" or "communism" is thrown around, folks get all Joe McCarthy "I'M ONLY SIXTEEN A CAPITALIST! I'M ONLY A CAPITALIST!!" toward the idea. Which is pretty... cut your nose to spite your face... when a lot of these folks that vote against it would be the biggest benefits.

People are fucking dumb*. But I don't necessarily think socialized values are the problem. It's educating voters that is.

You're right in (my limited experience of Owen Jones blitzing my Twitter timeline of US liberals during UK hours) the sense that Jeremy did jack-shit. I mean, compared to Bernie (or Warren *retch*) he certainly didn't do anything beyond "oh well, I'm against Brexit!" which is a Hillary move.

*

Probably why I'm a misanthrope

[close]

I think the big problem is people are generally just complacent. They don’t care until the shit just hits the fucking fan.

Brexit will be a bad move for the UK economy and standard of living, almost guaranteed, and two years from now people are going to be saying it was a mistake.

Trump will eventually make a move so bad that it has a negative effect on the US economy, or we will naturally hit a downturn and he will handle it like crap and his approval rating will just tank. But until he does, many people just don’t care that much.

[Occam]

People are fucking dumb*.

*

Probably why I'm a misanthrope

[close]

I try not to be, but it's hard, with stupid people ruining it for the rest of us.
If only there was a way to successfully keep human stupidity in check.

I've said it before, the thing that's actually destroying the western democracies is their unwillingness to defend themselves against lies and stupidity. This weakness has led to Trump and Brexit.
Facts are not a matter of opinion, and not every opinion has equal merit. A democracy cannot survive if untruths are given a platform, are given equal consideration as facts and are allowed to influence public opinion on a large scale. People who spread political lies need to be held accountable. Politicians who lie should be held accountable, and not just by the democratic process itself (elections), because that obviously doesn't work.
Here's an idea: After spreading a certain amount of counterfactual information/propaganda (not merely bad opinions but objective falsehoods), you should be barred from holding public office for a number of years.

[kingv]

People are fucking dumb*.

*

Probably why I'm a misanthrope

[close]

I try not to be, but it's hard, with stupid people ruining it for the rest of us.
If only there was a way to successfully keep human stupidity in check.

The left really are Nazis!

[Occam]

You can't make stupid people smart, you have to find a way to not let them be influenced by lies.

[Occam]

Shortly before his death in 1955, Einstein said to his companion Johanna Fantova (a former Princeton university librarian):
"The rule of the stupid cannot be overcome because there are so many of them, and their votes count just as much as ours."
That accurately addresses a fundamental problem of democracy.

[Akala]

which was solved totally by the electoral college. 

[agrajag]

https://twitter.com/JamesDMorris/status/1205252843831283714

maybe the British are just dumb

[Mandark]

I try not to be, but it's hard, with stupid people ruining it for the rest of us.

I don't think you're that smart.

[OnlyRegret]

democracy 

technocracy of the demigod AIs free of the shackles of mortality and humanity 

[OnlyRegret]

This should be a lesson to America: If the choice is (incorrectly) perceived to be Trump or Socialism, most Americans will go with Trump.

I think that's obvious to anyone with two working brain-cells (as much as I don't want that to happen).

I honestly don't get the "COMMUNISM BAD" mindset now a days. Nobody sensible is asking for a full communist government where breadlines/etc. happens. But having socialized safety-nets (guaranteed housing, food-on-the-table, healthcare) shouldn't scare folks. This shit is sensible for the lower-classes, especially. But because "socialism" or "communism" is thrown around, folks get all Joe McCarthy "I'M ONLY SIXTEEN A CAPITALIST! I'M ONLY A CAPITALIST!!" toward the idea. Which is pretty... cut your nose to spite your face... when a lot of these folks that vote against it would be the biggest benefits.

People are fucking dumb*. But I don't necessarily think socialized values are the problem. It's educating voters that is.

You're right in (my limited experience of Owen Jones blitzing my Twitter timeline of US liberals during UK hours) the sense that Jeremy did jack-shit. I mean, compared to Bernie (or Warren *retch*) he certainly didn't do anything beyond "oh well, I'm against Brexit!" which is a Hillary move.

*

Probably why I'm a misanthrope

[close]

Misleading people has a lot of people's money riding on it. Socialism/Communism are buzzwords for the purpose of political discourse.
It was interesting to see Carlson co-opt certain talking points from the left, avoid attaching it it the left in name and people eat it up. Of course, being a rich, rich man his intent isn't benevolent and his content has
a slant of splitting capitalism into good and bad variants to avoid letting the flock stray. That and he really knows how to speak to the poor conservatives of the States.

Why do you think the GOP goes so hard on abortion? Do you really think they would bat an eye at strongarming a mistress into getting one?
They need it to maintain a hold on their numerous base. Convincing people the Dems are in favour of carrying pregnancies to term in order to kill the newborn is essential for their strategy.

Here's an idea: After spreading a certain amount of counterfactual information/propaganda (not merely bad opinions but objective falsehoods), you should be barred from holding public office for a number of years.

Great idea. So how exactly would you implement your completely objective Ministry of Truths?

[Nintex]

Trump will eventually make a move so bad that it has a negative effect on the US economy

Maybe but this scaremongering didn't work. Same as in the UK.

A vocal minority has moved far left in a liberal mostly urban bubble where unsurprisingly most journalists hang around.
But oh no Democracy has ended because people 'voted' for the type of government they prefer between 'a circus' and a  'shit show'? 

The left needs a new game plan beyond pandering to the vocal minority, fluffing the same journalists and pretending their policies are all colors and rainbows.

But no Trump and Boris with their magic dicks and Russian lube made a constituency that voted Labour since it was founded turn to the Dark Side of conservatism.
Yes, that must be it. No other explanation possible or else you are probably a Nazi or a Russian puppet!

[thisismyusername]

People are fucking dumb*. But I don't necessarily think socialized values are the problem. It's educating voters that is.

When a population has mass reactionary politics I think you should take them at their word and try to understand why instead of wishing that if they were "smarter" they'd see things your way.

Oh, I understand why completely:

the whites hate the browns and blacks so much, they'll strip themselves of good healthcare to avoid sharing it with them 

It's exactly this. You can try to dress it up as something else, but I have had actual British citizens tell me this with a straight-face. "Oh, I don't want immigrants getting nationalized healthcare and breaking away from the EU will stop them from coming in."

"So you're willing to fuck yourself over for the sake of making sure others aren't fucked over by dictators/etc. in other countries?"
"*crickets which means "yes"*"

Again: People are fucking dumb. Why do you think I expect Trump to win a second term? People vote against their own self-interests due to emotions and "gut feeling." You can educate them that things would get better under "these other guys," but if someone (like Trump) reassures them "I got this," they'll vote for that stupid fucker everytime.

https://twitter.com/BWJones/status/1205389704834637824

And you know what? I bet those fucking farmers will still vote for his stupid-ass despite publicly saying they're dissatisfied with him because people are fucking dumb.

[Nintex]

"And to the man with the stars on his hat I say, Put a sock in your megaphone"

"You voted to be Carbon Neutral by 2050... and Corbyn Neutral by Christmas"

 

[EchoRin]

Well, I should listen to my girlfriend and not check the twitter or forum thread.

Genuinely at this point, seeing my own mother's racism and that she said she even want to sacrifice the NHS so the 'pakis and immigrants' can't use it, as well as watching my loved ones and friends who may suffer even more under a Tory government, I wish i just have the balls to commit suicide.

I'm half Pakistani, I'm an ex Muslim, I work in an extremely volatile industry where under the tories, things might change for the worse with less regulation if the tories had their way.

I'm so scared and frighten. But unfortunately life goes on and it's back to survival mode for the next five years.

My only hope at this point is the TGA trailers not being disappointing.

That and my girlfriend keeping me sane.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.resetera.com/threads/uk-general-election-2019-polls-open-today-7am-10pm-get-out-and-vote.158714/page-13#post-27324611

[close]

I just want to give you a hug. Hang in there.

[Potato]

The Guardian is so good for a laugh. It's come to be my daily dose of comedy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party

Basically: "You know that guy we've been relentlessly stanning for so much for the past few years? Yeah, maybe he wasn't such a good candidate."

[curly]

That exact same columnist wrote a piece saying Labour should ditch Corbyn two months ago dude

[Potato]

That exact same columnist wrote a piece saying Labour should ditch Corbyn two months ago dude

And was still talking up Corbyn's chances of minority government in late November.

The Guardian is a biased shit rag, just as much as the Murdoch press is biased the other way.