Author Topic: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!  (Read 18103 times)

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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2006, 06:33:47 PM »
Quote from: am nintenho link=topic=1024.msg21383#msg21383
Show me somebody who sent their children to be blown up.

The practice of martyrdom is one that traces its beginnings to the Iran/Iraq war, and the parents are very proud of their children who do that.  Those who sacrifice themselves are hailed as heroes.  On the other hand, it was against military targets - which I think most view as acceptable.  It really wasn't until Hezbollah decide to attack civilians with suicide bombers that practice has been met with international distaste.

But these are isolated cases, and no more fucked up than the redneck trailer trash that goes around dragging black people behind pick up trucks in the name of Christ.

Yes, real isolated. I hear about multiple suicide bombings every fucking month of the year, but no worries it's isolated.
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brawndolicious

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2006, 06:34:46 PM »
The practice of martyrdom is one that traces its beginnings to the Iran/Iraq war, and the parents are very proud of their children who do that.  Those who sacrifice themselves are hailed as heroes.  On the other hand, it was against military targets - which I think most view as acceptable.  It really wasn't until Hezbollah decide to attack civilians with suicide bombers that practice has been met with international distaste.
But who actually raised a child, not an adult who wants 72 virgins, to blow themselves up?

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2006, 06:35:30 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix Dark link=topic=1024.msg21392#msg21392
Yes, real isolated. I hear about multiple suicide bombings every fucking month of the year, but no worries it's isolated.

Over dozens of countries, by different groups for different reasons?  Of course, they're isolated.  You're comparing an entire region against a country.

The only place I can think of where suicide bombers are a common occurence nowadays is Iraq, which is in the middle of a CIVIL WAR.

Quote from: am nintenho
But who actually raised a child, not an adult who wants 72 virgins, to blow themselves up?

If you want names, I can bet you can Google up a parent that actually told their kid to do it.  But it won't be ALL Muslim parents or anything, that'd be a gross and sick generalization.

But who needs to tell their kid to do it when you have an entire culture that promotes it?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 06:37:24 PM by Willco »
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2006, 06:37:16 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix Dark link=topic=1024.msg21392#msg21392
Yes, real isolated. I hear about multiple suicide bombings every fucking month of the year, but no worries it's isolated.

Over dozens of countries, by different groups for different reasons?  Of course, they're isolated.  You're comparing an entire region against a country.

The only place I can think of where suicide bombers are a common occurence nowadays is Iraq, which is in the middle of a CIVIL WAR.

Israel no? -_-

There is no civil war in Iraq; far left liberals have been hoping for one for the last two years, but it hasn't erupted yet.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2006, 06:39:22 PM »
No, you don't have have hundreds of dead civilians caught in sectarian violence every week and not have a civil war.  I can't believe you'd be that dense, PhoenixDark.

Suicide bombers happen in Israel way more than most people will like, but it's rarely every day or every week unless there's a military campaign in Gaza.

I'd be willing to bet my copy of Gears of War that there are more hate crimes committed by fundamentalist Christians in the United States per year than suicide bombers in Israel.  And successful suicide bombers (don't try and cheat!).

But petty homicide and hate crimes by trailer trash is not as interesting as folks blowing themselves up to the media.
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brawndolicious

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2006, 06:41:21 PM »
If you want names, I can bet you can Google up a parent that actually told their kid to do it.  But it won't be ALL Muslim parents or anything, that'd be a gross and sick generalization.
But who needs to tell their kid to do it when you have an entire culture that promotes it?
That's what I was getting at, and kids don't act cultured, you just brainwash them and throw candy out of a tank.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2006, 06:43:53 PM »
No, you don't have have hundreds of dead civilians caught in sectarian violence every week and not have a civil war.  I can't believe you'd be that dense, PhoenixDark.

Suicide bombers happen in Israel way more than most people will like, but it's rarely every day or every week unless there's a military campaign in Gaza.

I'd be willing to bet my copy of Gears of War that there are more hate crimes committed by fundamentalist Christians in the United States per year than suicide bombers in Israel.  And successful suicide bombers (don't try and cheat!).

But petty homicide and hate crimes by trailer trash is not as interesting as folks blowing themselves up to the media.

That's not a civil war. Until we see both ethnic sides of Iraq over there killing each other off on a large scale, macro level it's not a true civil war. Right now you have a somewhat large group of pussy insurgents over there killing US forces, as well as Iraqis who are helping the US. That's where most of the violence comes from.

Well of course something "petty" isn't going on the same level as a suicide bombing. My god
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2006, 06:44:37 PM »
Uh, no.  PhoenixDark, where are you getting this information from - Dick Cheney?
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2006, 06:46:12 PM »
Uh, no.  PhoenixDark, where are you getting this information from - Dick Cheney?

History, as well as some observations made my military men in the country. It's not a civil war. Has the NY Times even said it was? To my understanding it's the far left who propagates this myth. They've been saying it for 2 years, and it hasn't happened.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2006, 06:49:36 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix Dark link=topic=1024.msg21403#msg21403
History, as well as some observations made my military men in the country. It's not a civil war. Has the NY Times even said it was? To my understanding it's the far left who propagates this myth. They've been saying it for 2 years, and it hasn't happened.

Who has been saying this for two years?  You're so full of it.  These are civilians dying, not US or Iraqi soldiers.

There's reports of at least 41 dead in Iraqi violence within the past 24 hours, just two of them American soldiers and most due to sectarian killings between Sunni and Shiite.

Please remove your head out of the sand.
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brawndolicious

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2006, 06:53:10 PM »
Lemme put it like this, you have a worthless police department that has no means to keep it's country safe, you have nearly no ministry of interior, you have soldiers that have to wear ski masks when on the job because there job is so dangerous, you have people being regularly thrown into jail for months without any charges or bail, and at the end of the day they still want democracy and are grateful that they have a democratic country but they still can see that the government it corrupt because it run by people's personal agenda's where instead of having knowledgable people being the leaders of the government, the leaders of the rural out-of-touch tribes are running the countries.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2006, 06:55:32 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix Dark link=topic=1024.msg21403#msg21403
History, as well as some observations made my military men in the country. It's not a civil war. Has the NY Times even said it was? To my understanding it's the far left who propagates this myth. They've been saying it for 2 years, and it hasn't happened.

Who has been saying this for two years?  You're so full of it.  These are civilians dying, not US or Iraqi soldiers.

There's reports of at least 41 dead in Iraqi violence within the past 24 hours, just two of them American soldiers and most due to sectarian killings between Sunni and Shiite.

Please remove your head out of the sand.

AND WHO is killing them Willco? Come on, you aren't stupid.

These are insurgents. They are killing anyone and everyone in order to make enough noise as possible. Anyone who helps the US is a target. How is that a civil war? This is nothing we haven't seen before. An imperial power occupies another nation, only to be met by extreme violence from a group of people who feel they need to "defend" their country. That's not the definition of civil war son.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2006, 06:56:58 PM »
Lemme put it like this, you have a worthless police department that has no means to keep it's country safe, you have nearly no ministry of interior, you have soldiers that have to wear ski masks when on the job because there job is so dangerous, you have people being regularly thrown into jail for months without any charges or bail, and at the end of the day they still want democracy and are grateful that they have a democratic country but they still can see that the government it corrupt because it run by people's personal agenda's where instead of having knowledgable people being the leaders of the government, the leaders of the rural out-of-touch tribes are running the countries.

And this breeds extreme violence among the people, who see a lawless society. THIS IS NOT CIVIL WAR

My god Willco..
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2006, 06:57:21 PM »
Uh, PhoenixDark, for the last time...

These are Sunni and Shiite Arabs killing one another.  Not insurgents.  There have been hundreds of deaths just in retaliation killings between the groups, that have absolutely nothing to do with the insurgency or American interests.

Are you really a Bill O'Reilly talking point memo now?
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2006, 06:59:07 PM »
Uh, PhoenixDark, for the last time...

These are Sunni and Shiite Arabs killing one another.  Not insurgents.  There have been hundreds of deaths just in retaliation killings between the groups, that have absolutely nothing to do with the insurgency or American interests.

Are you really a Bill O'Reilly talking point memo now?

Not on a large scale; that's the problem with your theory. This has not arrupted into that type of situation.
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brawndolicious

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #75 on: September 19, 2006, 07:00:42 PM »
And this breeds extreme violence among the people, who see a lawless society. THIS IS NOT CIVIL WAR
My god Willco..
No, the violent groups have enough manpower to actually spread their message that they hate the government and they patrol the streets wearing uniforms.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2006, 07:02:32 PM »
When you're dealing with hundreds and hundreds of civilian deaths due to sectarian violence, when does it become a civil war?

Does the body count have to hit a high score before you and the administration will accept it's a civil war, PD?
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Flannel Boy

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2006, 07:04:34 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 04:22:34 PM by Malek: King of Kings »

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2006, 07:07:02 PM »
When you're dealing with hundreds and hundreds of civilian deaths due to sectarian violence, when does it become a civil war?

Does the body count have to hit a high score before you and the administration will accept it's a civil war, PD?

This is instigated by a high amount of lawless-ness, as well as insurgent activity.

Clearly I'm wasting my time here. Look up "civil war" and get back with me.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2006, 07:07:03 PM »
TONIGHT's TALKING POINTS MEMO: IT IS NOT A CIVIL WAR
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2006, 07:08:07 PM »
Quote from: THE MOTHAFUCKING DICTIONARY
civil war:
a war between political factions or regions within the same country.

YOU MEAN LIKE SUNNI AND SHIITE? 
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Diablos

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2006, 07:09:38 PM »
But apparently a lot send their kids to "blow up innocent people" school too. Can't say that about fundie Christian parents eh?
Just ban him.

Why, because you have no ability whatsoever to defend yourself? If you're Muslim, I don't give a shit; I have no problem with Islam, and I have great respect for the religion. But to compare the fundie branch of Christianity to that of Islam is absolute bullshit, and a direct attack on Christianity, which I don't appreciate.

We're talking about (well, some of us) how fundies of all types manage to have a dramatic effect on things. You can't deny this. And certainly, across the board, be it by someone who could be your neighbor or someone that wants to blow you up, I have to question the morality of fundamentalists. Obviously I'd rather know an American fundie than a terrorist, but that doesn't mean I should come to appreciate or accept what they are doing to fuck with this country.

They ARE two different things, but BECAUSE they are two different things, it's important to point that out. But ALSO, after seperating the two, coming back to the point that fundamentalism indeed has been successful in promoting change in extremely controversial ways. Ways that are totally unrealted, of course. But you should not bring up the fact that terrorists are the worst fundies in existance and give a free pass to the dumbing down of the youth across the country in the name of a bunch of arrogant fundies.

I'm not giving a free pass to anyone. I've been raised around the fundie movement, I know what it's about, and I know why it's so successful. You can laugh at them all you want, but in the end they're making changes; stuff like the Joshua Project is not a joke.

Yeah they're misguided, and they want to roll back the clock on a lot of things. My point is that comparing both groups is not a good idea, and it only sows confusion.

No, you only show confusion. You say the Joshua Project is not a joke. WE KNOW. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

I'm not comparing them as GROUPS but talking about fundamentalism as a whole and what happens when you apply it to various things. It gets fucked up. There is nothing similar between Christian fundies and Muslim fundies, no... but you're completely missing the point.

While we have certain kinds of fundies overseas plotting to kill us, we have fundies in this country plotting to overtake the religious, moral, and ethical well-being of the US. JUST BECAUSE these people aren't terrorists doesn't mean one should not be concerned.

How many different ways do I need to say it so you aren't confused, PD?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 07:11:50 PM by Diablos »

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #82 on: September 19, 2006, 07:14:36 PM »
But apparently a lot send their kids to "blow up innocent people" school too. Can't say that about fundie Christian parents eh?
Just ban him.

Why, because you have no ability whatsoever to defend yourself? If you're Muslim, I don't give a shit; I have no problem with Islam, and I have great respect for the religion. But to compare the fundie branch of Christianity to that of Islam is absolute bullshit, and a direct attack on Christianity, which I don't appreciate.

We're talking about (well, some of us) how fundies of all types manage to have a dramatic effect on things. You can't deny this. And certainly, across the board, be it by someone who could be your neighbor or someone that wants to blow you up, I have to question the morality of fundamentalists. Obviously I'd rather know an American fundie than a terrorist, but that doesn't mean I should come to appreciate or accept what they are doing to fuck with this country.

They ARE two different things, but BECAUSE they are two different things, it's important to point that out. But ALSO, after seperating the two, coming back to the point that fundamentalism indeed has been successful in promoting change in extremely controversial ways. Ways that are totally unrealted, of course. But you should not bring up the fact that terrorists are the worst fundies in existance and give a free pass to the dumbing down of the youth across the country in the name of a bunch of arrogant fundies.

I'm not giving a free pass to anyone. I've been raised around the fundie movement, I know what it's about, and I know why it's so successful. You can laugh at them all you want, but in the end they're making changes; stuff like the Joshua Project is not a joke.

Yeah they're misguided, and they want to roll back the clock on a lot of things. My point is that comparing both groups is not a good idea, and it only sows confusion.

No, you only show confusion. You say the Joshua Project is not a joke. WE KNOW. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

I'm not comparing them as GROUPS but talking about fundamentalism as a whole and what happens when you apply it to various things. It gets fucked up. There is nothing similar between Christian fundies and Muslim fundies, no... but you're completely missing the point.

While we have certain kinds of fundies overseas plotting to kill us, we have fundies in this country plotting to overtake the religious, moral, and ethical well-being of the US. JUST BECAUSE these people aren't terrorists doesn't mean one should not be concerned.

How many different ways do I need to say it so you aren't confused, PD?

You could have made your point much clearer early in this thread.

Willco: Screw you I'm going to watch A Beautiful Mind
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2006, 07:15:25 PM »
Maybe like the main character, you'll become un-crazy.
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MrAngryFace

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2006, 11:25:11 PM »
Lolz pointing fingers
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brawndolicious

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2006, 11:31:07 PM »

Vania

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2006, 10:37:48 AM »
muslims are violent and funny. :-*

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2006, 11:11:38 AM »
So are Jewz lol
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Loki

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2006, 09:56:37 AM »
Well, I sat on this post for a week or so but decided to go ahead with it.  I was reluctant to post it since I'll undoubtedly get shit for it (and because the thread had by that point devolved into a heated discussion on the particularities of what constitutes civil war :P), but I feel that there's some merit to it:


While there are unquestionably various sociocultural and economic factors which contribute to the incidence of extremism within Islamic/Arab communities, any discussion by Muslims which consists almost exclusively of tu quoques and talks about how maligned Muslims are wherever they go has always struck me as disingenuous in a way.  I mean, to hear a Muslim tell it, they (Muslims) are always the oppressed ones, always the victims, always being buffeted by forces beyond their control.  While ostensibly calling for an "even-handed approach and a fuller understanding of the situation," they'd basically have you believe that Muslims are always in the right in every regional or ethnic conflict (e.g., Chechnya, Somalia, India etc.).  At the very least, they'd have you believe that no one is in the right, and that both sides are always equally culpable; this is most assuredly nonsense, though they are assisted in their cause by a distinct (and pernicious) type of liberal mentality.  There are always two sides to every story, but both of these sides are not always equally valid. 


Ignoring the sociological/economic/political factors which contribute to the pathology of extremism within Muslim communities, sometimes I tend to look at things like this via analogy:


When you have a friend who is having problems with another friend of hers and she tells you all the specifics of how the other person wronged her, you listen and believe her (barring countervailing evidence), trusting in her character and judgment.  However, if this same friend routinely came to you with tales of conflict between her and her other friends, you'd accordingly become less credulous, even if in every instance a plausible sounding rationale was advanced.  One or two people can be wrong, but what are the chances that five of her friends were all wrong?  A dozen of them?  Not very likely.  You'd begin to attribute her interpersonal woes to something more fundamental to her -- either her people skills, or her expectations, or whatever. 


This is how I view Islam, unfortunately.  Not in its entirety, of course -- I've had the pleasure of knowing many good Muslims who were just tremendous people, people whom you could respect.  Not all (or even anywhere near a majority of) Muslims are a problem, obviously.  Yet it seems that wherever Islam migrates, trouble follows.  Discord, violence, and a seeming inability to peacefully coexist with their neighbors seem follow Muslim communities around like a dark cloud.  At the very least, this suggests to me that in addition to whatever extrinsic causes may be posited for radicalism (e.g., poverty, lack of education, Machiavellian exploitation on the part of Western powers, estrangement from the national culture in the case of immigrants), we should also take a hard look at the possible elements of Islamic theology/doctrine which make it especially susceptible, among the monotheistic religions, to manipulation and abuse on the part of extremists; this in turn foments further radicalism as they cast their nefarious net among a populace already put "at risk" by the aforementioned sociopolitical factors.


Obviously, none of this is intended to suggest that externalities play no role in breeding extremism -- in fact, they likely play a considerable role.  However, as the "sample size" increases, it becomes increasingly difficult to ascribe everything to other people's actions and abuses, to other people's faults and shortcomings.  The analogy I employed is by no means a strict one, nor was it especially well thought out -- hell, it might hardly be apposite; however, I feel that there's a grain of truth in there.  Essentially, I am of the mind that if people can be just in their dealings and have good relations, then so can be their aggregates (e.g., institutions, nations) provided that certain conditions obtain.  Just as realpolitik is not, in my estimation, an inevitability in world affairs (though it's currently the dominant paradigm), extremism -- at least to the extent it currently exists -- is not a foregone conclusion where religion is concerned, no matter what some people would have you believe.  Things like radicalism and realpolitik are, at base, personal pathologies writ large.



So there you have it.  I figured I'd post this because it's a somewhat different take on things.  I don't believe the above to be "the whole story" by any means -- like I said, I look at things in this manner sometimes, not all the time.  Analyzing the situation from a purely sociocultural/political perspective -- as I frequently do myself -- also has merit, and arguments proceeding from such bases are generally tenable.  Incidentally, let it be known that I am at the very least consistent in my thoughts, since I at times attribute America's disrepute and international/domestic troubles to institutionalized pathologies which are outgrowths of internalized personal failings (e.g., greed, aggression).  So don't take this as me singling out Islam; it's simply one part of a broader lens through which I occasionally look at the world.  A panoptic view would of course have to incorporate many such perspectives (e.g., cultural, sociological, political, psychological, spiritual etc.), and this post is not intended as a refutation of the most commonly proffered explanations for extremism -- it's just a slightly different take on things.


(And yeah, Dark Shake, you can get your "why the HELL do you write so much !?" post out of the way now -- that's preemptive ownage right there :D :P)


P.S.:   Before I get pounced on for the "liberal mentality" quote, allow me to state that the reason I said that is because a certain strain of liberal thought is loathe to draw lines (i.e., make firm judgments), and sometimes certain lines need to be drawn for intellectual honesty and clarity's sake (though the converse -- drawing lines too hastily -- can also be true; the happy medium is, as always, the place to be -- Aristotle was right :P).  So that's all I meant by that; I'm obviously not tarring all liberals with that brush.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 11:21:55 AM by Loki »

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2006, 09:59:10 AM »
I'M NOT READING THAT!!!! :punch
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Loki

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2006, 10:03:28 AM »
I'M NOT READING THAT!!!! :punch

Then it wasn't meant for you. ;)  :P


(Btw, you should at least read the parenthetical near the end -- you fell right into my trap! :D)

The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2006, 10:05:58 AM »
 :o :o :o


NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooOOOOOOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!1111
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Loki

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #92 on: September 25, 2006, 10:12:17 AM »
:o :o :o


NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooOOOOOOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!1111

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssssSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!111 :D  Dare I say:





APF

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #93 on: September 25, 2006, 10:22:49 AM »
When you have a friend who is having problems with another friend of hers and she tells you all the specifics of how the other person wronged her, you listen and believe her (barring countervailing evidence), trusting in her character and judgment.  However, if this same friend routinely came to you with tales of conflict between her and her other friends, you'd accordingly become less credulous, even if in every instance a plausible sounding rationale was advanced.  One or two people can be wrong, but what are the chances that five of her friends were all wrong?  A dozen of them?  Not very likely.  You'd begin to attribute her interpersonal woes to something more fundamental to her -- either her people skills, or her expectations, or whatever. 

Hah; I like that analogy, it also speaks to a tendency of my much-more-liberal friends/etc to see America, or Western interests as a whole, as the sole villain in every conflict or issue.
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Loki

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2006, 10:44:27 AM »


Hah; I like that analogy, it also speaks to a tendency of my much-more-liberal friends/etc to see America, or Western interests as a whole, as the sole villain in every conflict or issue.

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)  For the record, though, I don't think it proper for one to look to at things from a single perspective (or, to use your words, to look for a "sole villain"), because there are myriad causes for the great majority of the world's problems; however, being disinclined to examine an issue from a certain viewpoint simply because it conflicts with one's weltanschauung is just as bad imo.

MrAngryFace

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2006, 10:49:48 AM »
Loki:
As always a great post.

As for the Liberal stuff, I guess. Im not really a Liberal but I still fault both sides because that's what I have decided. Granted I can be given a political badge by a third party, but what I believe is what I believe.

And I believe Organized Religion while instrumental in any society is a bunch of crap. If god was so awesome he'd get his ass in gear n fix shit. If the church, any church was so awesome they would fuckin stop shooting people in the face.

I stand by my view. I mean there are far more serious issues I wish humanity would turn to by the whole islam vs christianity crap is always front page woo they killed each other again. Yeah like thats news.

It won't be long till its all Mad Max and we're fighting for a gallon of gas held by a lunatic in a hockey mask anyway.
o_0

Boogie

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2006, 10:55:45 AM »
ah, shades of old-school Loki.
MMA

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2006, 11:06:20 AM »
Loki:
As always a great post.

As for the Liberal stuff, I guess. Im not really a Liberal but I still fault both sides because that's what I have decided. Granted I can be given a political badge by a third party, but what I believe is what I believe.

And I believe Organized Religion while instrumental in any society is a bunch of crap. If god was so awesome he'd get his ass in gear n fix shit. If the church, any church was so awesome they would fuckin stop shooting people in the face.

I stand by my view. I mean there are far more serious issues I wish humanity would turn to by the whole islam vs christianity crap is always front page woo they killed each other again. Yeah like thats news.

It won't be long till its all Mad Max and we're fighting for a gallon of gas held by a lunatic in a hockey mask anyway.


I don't disagree that organized religion as a whole creates a lot of problems, be it Warren Jeffs or Muslim terrorists or - dare I say - Creationism.  Yet, I wouldn't discount it as a whole because it does a lot of good for a lot of people.

As for your second part, sure, there are other perils facing humanity, like global warming and Michael Bay's Transformers, but the culture clash is huge and beyond just simply Muslims killing Christians.  It's Muslims killing people in the West and how the West reacts to such views and violence.  This is shaping our world, not just because of the Pope issue, but how the West deals with the Middle East and its interests.  We're at war, and Bush might say against terror, but it really is against Muslim extremists. I think tackling the cultural issues is paramount to creating any kind of peace in that region, even if it takes a millennium.

PSP

Loki

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2006, 11:09:43 AM »


As for the Liberal stuff, I guess. Im not really a Liberal but I still fault both sides because that's what I have decided. Granted I can be given a political badge by a third party, but what I believe is what I believe.

And that's totally reasonable.  Again, to be clear:  both sides might very well be blameworthy in a given situation (and likely are), but not necessarily to the same extent.  They may be, but not necessarily.  My post was not intended as an endorsement of simpleminded, superficial analysis.  Complex issues warrant comprehensive analyses, but these should include all pertinent perspectives, not just those which conform to our biases or political alignment.


Quote from: Boogie
ah, shades of old-school Loki.

All you'll get are shades nowadays. ;) :P
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 09:31:03 PM by Loki »

Boogie

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2006, 11:14:53 AM »
So I've heard. ;)
MMA

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #100 on: September 25, 2006, 11:50:43 AM »
Deleted by user
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 04:44:37 PM by Malek: King of Kings »

Loki

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #101 on: September 25, 2006, 11:54:39 AM »

Mondain

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Re: Okay Mulisms, now you're being TOO zany!
« Reply #102 on: September 25, 2006, 11:59:30 AM »
Organized religion is very important. Because of it, a ton of people in desolate third world countries are freely healed, nurtured, directed towards good values, and educated, even if it's barely enough to make them able to read and follow the bible or the qur'an and be "good Christians/Islamists".

Tyrants that govern countries through dictatorships only care about making their country (or themselves) as rich and powerful as possible while providing the lowest amount of care possible to their citizens in order to simply make them survive and help their reign prosper.

It's often a necessary evil. Missionaries also spread good where there'd otherwise be nothing but poverty and chaos. Even if all organized religions are probably rotten beyond belief, they have some altruistic ways that benefit to a lot of otherwise totally helpless people who'd be at the mercy of abominable political systems like communism or of truly evil despots.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 01:23:12 PM by Mondain »