Dyack Vs. Rein FIGHT

[The Fake Shemp]

[23:01] Will: Rein or Dyack - who would you fist?
[23:01] Doug: can't it be both?
[23:01] Will: NO THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
[23:01] Doug: but probably dyack
[23:01] Will: Why?
[23:02] Doug: because he would misquote lovecraft as i massaged his prostate

[brawndolicious]

When a developer buys an engine they take out the parts of the code that limit their game so that it runs smoother but it doesn't make sense to think that SK with 15 years of experience put on a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow hat and told a lawyer to file this.  I mean I realize the guy makes 1 game a generation but other than GoW, there hasn't been another UE3 game released and the fully operable version of the engine had supposedly been out for a year.

For the GoW code, that's either "engine-specific" or "game-specific" depending on who you ask but ID lets their licensees use all the code in their games and even beta or unused code.  SK has said that they're going to make their own engine that does not benefit from the UE3 source code so for the goal of getting out of the licensing agreement with Epic, it seems they can at least get a refund. 

Games like R6:Vegas that are called UE2.5 used a modified UE2 engine, Epic has still not released a fully operable version of UE3 on PS3 6 months after they agreed to release it.  This could greatly affect holiday games.

For those pointing at how shit Too Human ran at E306, they were supposed to get the UE3 for 360 in march (2 months before E3) but got it in november.

I'd imagine that if SK can get a refund than a lot of developers will want one.  Pretty much all games with UE3 got a delay.

[Wobedraggled]

The point of all this.

SK is done, too human might not even see the light of day.

Epic will rage one and make assloads of cash.

bye bye Dyack.

He reminds me of Vic Ireland, a little too Ego based for the market.

[BlueTsunami]

I can't believe the whole codebase thing. Its utterly amazing that he thinks that Epic actually used a modified UE3 that had some of Dyack's codeing within it? What? omfg hilarious

and the SK apologists seem to be Xbox 360 fans that were looking forward too "Too Human". They trumpeted the game last year (before the E3 shit) and did a whole lot of "bububu"ing when the E3 debacle occured. Now the game looks like its not even going to come about (or will have to get pushed way back) and Dyack is blaming it on someone else (shock).

I love how a certain poster on GAF actually tried to flip it and called everyone against "Dyack" PS3 fanboys who are happy with Epic and UT2K7, when it really is the exact opposite. You cannot defend Dyack with this, the dudes a douche.

[bud]

I can't believe the whole codebase thing. Its utterly amazing that he thinks that Epic actually used a modified UE3 that had some of Dyack's codeing within it? What? omfg hilarious

and the SK apologists seem to be Xbox 360 fans that were looking forward too "Too Human". They trumpeted the game last year (before the E3 shit) and did a whole lot of "bububu"ing when the E3 debacle occured. Now the game looks like its not even going to come about (or will have to get pushed way back) and Dyack is blaming it on someone else (shock).

I love how a certain poster on GAF actually tried to flip it and called everyone against "Dyack" PS3 fanboys who are happy with Epic and UT2K7, when it really is the exact opposite. You cannot defend Dyack with this, the dudes a douche.

who?

also, are you permabanned?

[BlueTsunami]

I can't believe the whole codebase thing. Its utterly amazing that he thinks that Epic actually used a modified UE3 that had some of Dyack's codeing within it? What? omfg hilarious

and the SK apologists seem to be Xbox 360 fans that were looking forward too "Too Human". They trumpeted the game last year (before the E3 shit) and did a whole lot of "bububu"ing when the E3 debacle occured. Now the game looks like its not even going to come about (or will have to get pushed way back) and Dyack is blaming it on someone else (shock).

I love how a certain poster on GAF actually tried to flip it and called everyone against "Dyack" PS3 fanboys who are happy with Epic and UT2K7, when it really is the exact opposite. You cannot defend Dyack with this, the dudes a douche.

who?

also, are you permabanned?

Naw, just banned till the 31st of July. A slap on the wrist really when you concider the picture I had Photoshopped

Oh and the poster is Chiggs.

[brawndolicious]

SK's claims are that they didn't get a fully functional version of UE3 even though Epic had it and that hurt their game's first E3 showing and is possibly going to delay other games that they have.  If true, than SK certainly has a case.

I don't think SK is saying Epic used any of their code.  In court, wtf knows who's going to win?

[Wobedraggled]

SK's claims are that they didn't get a fully functional version of UE3 even though Epic had it and that hurt their game's first E3 showing and is possibly going to delay other games that they have.  If true, than SK certainly has a case.

I don't think SK is saying Epic used any of their code.  In court, wtf knows who's going to win?

I just think SK is looking for excuses, and saw others were having minor issues with the engine and decided to go for it, this could have been sorted out outside court, but Epic will bleed SK dry and the case will be dropped.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

SK: I am Spartacus!
Other guys: ...yeah, he's Spartacus all right.
EPIC: Take him away!
SK:

Also, he doesn't think that Epic used a modified codebase with SK's code in it. Dunno where you're getting that. He just seems utterly confused about derivative works. Like thinking that remixing a song gives you the rights to the original song, too.

[Eduardo24]

After reading more of it, don´t you guys think SK actually has a case?

I thought Vegas was using UE3, but it seems it used UE2.5 with some custom mods.

[Van Cruncheon]

man, i got all sorts of good conspiracy theories about this. remember sco linux?

[y2kev]

Unfortunately, SK will not go away and TH will be coming out.

I am enjoying the doomsayers, but I doubt anything bad will happen to SK. Sadly.

Nope, this is it.  Unless this turns into an I AM SPARTACUS moment, SK is dead.  Nobody will want to be associated with them at all.  If disputes like this arise, they are generally handled without whining to a court.  Nothing out of the ordinary happened here, Denis just apparently didn't do proper research before giving the thumbs up to middleware.  And now he just sank his own company.

And what with TH still being more than 6 months off (at least--I see another delay in the cards), I'd totally understand if MS pulled the plug on funding right now.

I hope so, but I don't see it happening. SK will sell another stupid bunch of suits on their revolutionary next-gen idea, and Denis will use that capital to pay his employees to sit around and get back tattoos.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

After reading more of it, don´t you guys think SK actually has a case?

I thought Vegas was using UE3, but it seems it used UE2.5 with some custom mods.

SK does not have a "case" in the sense of "case that can be won." It doesn't matter if they're right or wrong, if Epic did or didn't support them properly. They are going about this in full-on crazy homeless man and the industry is just going to turn their backs to them. Just like when they license a game engine, they don't understand the code.

[border]

People keep saying that buggy middleware and missed deadlines are par for the course in software industry.  That may be, but I'm not entirely sure if a judge is going to care about what's standard, even if poor service is the standard.  I can see this gaining a little traction, but it probably won't reach court anyhow.

I've been hating SK since before hating SK was cool!

Your dismantling of Eternal Darkness has been a long-time inspiration for many.

ROVIAS IS SAVIOR SPELLED BACKWARDS!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

ROVIAS IS SAVIOR SPELLED BACKWARDS!

Well, it is.

Maybe hero K. Cayd Senid will come to bail SK out of their current fiasco??

[Van Cruncheon]

someone link me to patel's utter defenstration of eternal darkness. that was a good read.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I don't remember writing one myself but there's a pretty good evisceration here

[Van Cruncheon]

ooo, the former drinky crow -- i miss him

[louegi]

really hope SK wins. denis dyack is a sweet guy that really doesnt deserve all the flack he receives at GA.

cliffy b is such a tool, but mark rein is even worse! he's so full of himself.

[Eduardo24]

Here is the complaint.  It´s not a "they don´t understand the code" thing.  Its a breach of contract.

http://www.shacknews.com/extras/siliconknights_epic/siliconknights_epic.pdf

[demi]

I'm gonna play Eternal Darkness again and raise my lighter to Dyack

[y2kev]

Silicon Knights was founded in 1992 by Denis Dyack. After graduating from
Canada’s Brock University in 1991, Dyack formed Silicon Knights while in graduate school,
with a partner who left the company a few years later. It was the first corporate venture for Mr.
Dyack, and despite the various industry changes, the numerous financial difficulties faced by
nearly all videogame developers, and the fact that literally hundreds of such developers have
come and gone since 1991, Dyack has shepherded Silicon Knights through it all. To the extent
Silicon Knights has succeeded, it has been largely due to Mr. Dyack’s perseverance and his
uncompromising dedication to a singular philosophy: gather talented individuals together and
allow them to create groundbreaking videogames.

[louegi]

Eternal Darkness was very well made. Production values were top-notch and voice acting was superb. It's as if Ubisoft modeled their entire company after Eternal Darkness and SK's vision of turning games more into cinema-like experiences.

Eternal Darkness was the first real next-gen "cinema" games.

[BlueTsunami]

Silicon Knights was founded in 1992 by Denis Dyack. After graduating from
Canada’s Brock University in 1991, Dyack formed Silicon Knights while in graduate school,
with a partner who left the company a few years later. It was the first corporate venture for Mr.
Dyack, and despite the various industry changes, the numerous financial difficulties faced by
nearly all videogame developers, and the fact that literally hundreds of such developers have
come and gone since 1991, Dyack has shepherded Silicon Knights through it all. To the extent
Silicon Knights has succeeded, it has been largely due to Mr. Dyack’s perseverance and his
uncompromising dedication to a singular philosophy: gather talented individuals together and
allow them to create groundbreaking videogames.

hahhaaaha, ohhhhh Dyack!

[Van Cruncheon]

Eternal Darkness was very well made. Production values were top-notch and voice acting was superb. It's as if Ubisoft modeled their entire company after Eternal Darkness and SK's vision of turning games more into cinema-like experiences.

Eternal Darkness was the first real next-gen "cinema" games  

this is what happens when you get a film school education

[louegi]

Denis is a visionary. ED influenced and changed the industry more than you all think.

[TVC15]

After reading more of it, don´t you guys think SK actually has a case?

I thought Vegas was using UE3, but it seems it used UE2.5 with some custom mods.

Not at all.  Unless they draw a judge that has no knowledge of the software industry, or if Epic has a poorly written licensing agreement (and since licensing has been one of Epic's main games for years, I bet they have a very tightly written one).

[y2kev]

Denis is a visionary. ED influenced and changed the industry more than you all think.

No, he's not a visionary. He's a con artist that rips off existing works of art and smashes them (poorly) together to make fairly competent games.

I like ED. It has some major problems, but in 2002 it was really fun for a kid in 9th grade like I was. However, once you realize that his "inspirations" are more like "copying points," the whole vision begins to break down.

The worst thing about it is he has no sense of humor at all when he approaches this shit. At least Kojima has soldiers pissing and shitting on people and gay vampires; Dyack thinks his reimagining of the Edda in game form is a serious work of art.

[louegi]

Denis is a visionary. ED influenced and changed the industry more than you all think.

No, he's not a visionary. He's a con artist that rips off existing works of art and smashes them (poorly) together to make fairly competent games.

I like ED. It has some major problems, but in 2002 it was really fun for a kid in 9th grade like I was. However, once you realize that his "inspirations" are more like "copying points," the whole vision begins to break down.

The worst thing about it is he has no sense of humor at all when he approaches this shit. At least Kojima has soldiers pissing and shitting on people and gay vampires; Dyack thinks his reimagining of the Edda in game form is a serious work of art.

You're such a bore, kid.  

Everything is inspired from a source, idiot. Whether it be from a mother or mother nature itself, it's all inspired from SOMEWHERE. The fact that denis, like Bungie did with Halo, combined a lot of great qualities from various sources doesnt diminish his vision. His vision was something new at the time, period.

The fact is: Before ED came out, hardly any games featured such high-production value, fresh gameplay mechanics, mature plot, excellent voice acting, etc.

ED is very underrated and Denis is very underappreciated. You're just clueless, kid.  

[Van Cruncheon]

heads up, kids: this is louegi's schtick.

[bud]

Denis is a visionary. ED influenced and changed the industry more than you all think.

No, he's not a visionary. He's a con artist that rips off existing works of art and smashes them (poorly) together to make fairly competent games.

I like ED. It has some major problems, but in 2002 it was really fun for a kid in 9th grade like I was. However, once you realize that his "inspirations" are more like "copying points," the whole vision begins to break down.

The worst thing about it is he has no sense of humor at all when he approaches this shit. At least Kojima has soldiers pissing and shitting on people and gay vampires; Dyack thinks his reimagining of the Edda in game form is a serious work of art.

You're such a bore, kid.  

Everything is inspired from a source, idiot. Whether it be from a mother or mother nature itself, it's all inspired from SOMEWHERE. The fact that denis, like Bungie did with Halo, combined a lot of great qualities from various sources doesnt diminish his vision. His vision was something new at the time, period.

The fact is: Before ED came out, hardly any games featured such high-production value, fresh gameplay mechanics, mature plot, excellent voice acting, etc.

ED is very underrated and Denis is very underappreciated. You're just clueless, kid.  

let's look at dd's latest.
[youtube=425,350]hACsCnWg3NM[/youtube]

this is not inspired by x it's clearly a rip-off of the movies we've seen in 80s and 90s. it's as generic as they come.

bububu the nietzche quote, lol.

[louegi]

Halo is just Aliens vs. Predator with better physics.

Any game can be diminished in such a way.

Name your game. There is no such thing as a perfect, original game.

[Fragamemnon]

I thought we had higher standards from our trolls than this on the 'bore. No sass or creativity at all in that post.

[louegi]

heads up, kids: this is louegi's schtick.

my schtick? what's that, friend? ardency? enthusiasm? loyalty? denis doesnt deserve to be hunted down by you bitches. what is this, a bitch hunt?  

[border]

The complaint is pretty nasty.  If you ask SK, this isn't a case of middleware that simply doesn't deliver on its promises, but a company that has intentionally lied about their product from Day 1.  Supposedly Epic intended to fuck them over, and wanted for them to fail.  How this makes any sense for a middleware company is beyond me, but oh well.

From the complaint:

"Epic's actions were intended to and did cause one or more of Silicon Knights' business partners to rescind their contracts with Silicon Knights and replace them with contracts whose terms were substantially less favorable to Silicon Knights...."

Sounds like they are taking it up the ass from Microsoft, after missing a bunch of milestones. 

Multiple times they re-iterate that they were on the verge of going out of business, and would have done so had they not started work on their own engine. That may just be made-up drama to paint them in a more sympathetic light.

[louegi]

I thought we had higher standards from our trolls than this on the 'bore. No sass or creativity at all in that post.

im not trolling, you bore. go to GA if you wish to play 'trolling'. im simply expressing myself, perhaps blandly!  

[louegi]

Denis is a visionary. ED influenced and changed the industry more than you all think.

No, he's not a visionary. He's a con artist that rips off existing works of art and smashes them (poorly) together to make fairly competent games.

I like ED. It has some major problems, but in 2002 it was really fun for a kid in 9th grade like I was. However, once you realize that his "inspirations" are more like "copying points," the whole vision begins to break down.

The worst thing about it is he has no sense of humor at all when he approaches this shit. At least Kojima has soldiers pissing and shitting on people and gay vampires; Dyack thinks his reimagining of the Edda in game form is a serious work of art.

You're such a bore, kid.  

Everything is inspired from a source, idiot. Whether it be from a mother or mother nature itself, it's all inspired from SOMEWHERE. The fact that denis, like Bungie did with Halo, combined a lot of great qualities from various sources doesnt diminish his vision. His vision was something new at the time, period.

The fact is: Before ED came out, hardly any games featured such high-production value, fresh gameplay mechanics, mature plot, excellent voice acting, etc.

ED is very underrated and Denis is very underappreciated. You're just clueless, kid.  

let's look at dd's latest.
[youtube=425,350]hACsCnWg3NM[/youtube]

this is not inspired by x it's clearly a rip-off of the movies we've seen in 80s and 90s. it's as generic as they come.

bububu the nietzche quote, lol.

That trailer is awesome. What's your point? That quote from Beyond Good & Evil is awesome as well. Although the book itself is trashish.

[Saint Cornelius]

heads up, kids: this is louegi's schtick.

so glad he's here.

[louegi]

im simply expressing myself, perhaps blandly!  

I can see why you're enamored of Dyack, to be sure.

oh, im simply not a critical person, like you. but i do like how it sounds when you say "to be sure," as if you were smarter and more sophisticated than you actually are.  

to be sure, indeed.  

[y2kev]

YOU'RE SUCH A BORE, BILLY

[Howard Alan Treesong]

(don't feed the trolls)

Is anyone else as astounded by the sheer amateur nature of the complaint as I am? I mean it's not a legal document, it's a GAF post, chockful of self-aggrandizing praise, sob stories, emotional appeals, etc. Even if SK had a case (which they don't), this document--which Dyack clearly wrote himself--would absolutely not be the way to go about it.

Do you think SK even has a lawyer?

[Mondain]

if any game turned game developpers to a new paradigm of cinematic gameplay experiences and maturity, it's Metal Gear Solid, not ED

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Mondain, STOP TALKING TO THE TROLL

[louegi]

if any game turned game developpers to a new paradigm of cinematic gameplay experiences and maturity, it's Metal Gear Solid, not ED

actually, youre right.

ED helped pave the way, though, especially on the gamecube. ED was one of the FEW truly cinematic games around during that era.

[louegi]

also, is it a coincidence that the two companies collaborated on a MGS game? I think not. They share a lot in common, my point PRECISELY.

[Van Cruncheon]

heads up, kids: this is louegi's schtick.

Makes more sense now.  Carry on then.

just put him on ignore. he's a classic oa contrarian who has probably participated in the futami account at some point!

[louegi]

heads up, kids: this is louegi's schtick.

Makes more sense now.  Carry on then.

just put him on ignore. he's a classic oa contrarian who has probably participated in the futami account at some point!

i am? examples? ive just conceded a solid-snake of a point above and yet im still a contrarian? everything ive said in here has been valid and hardly far-fetched. you dont even know me, only my false reputation that has been lionized over the years. dont believe the hype.

[Saint Cornelius]

just put him on ignore. he's a classic oa contrarian who has probably participated in the futami account at some point!

[Van Cruncheon]

sorry, little duder, praise for eternal darkness is so indefensible as to be considered a troll, and a pretty amateurish one at that. :'(

if you need to play contrarian and take shots at perceived elitist groupthink, may i suggest the similarly titled "the darkness" as a better target for rousing the rabble! see: jewco; transformers

[Howard Alan Treesong]

the darkness=eternal darkness

the = eternal
h = ernal
Japanese perversion = renal

the kidneys? seriously? oh, Japan

[TVC15]

Eternal Darkness probably is better than The Darkness, when all is said and done.

[louegi]

sorry, little duder, praise for eternal darkness is so indefensible as to be considered a troll, and a pretty amateurish one at that. :'(

if you need to play contrarian and take shots at perceived elitist groupthink, may i suggest the similarly titled "the darkness" as a better target for rousing the rabble! see: jewco; transformers

how is eternal darkness so indefensible? IGN scored it a 9.6. i dont think it's too far-fecthed (my opinion), regardless of whether or not it's actually SUBJECTIVE in the end. heh, youre just ultra critical of denis the man, i suspect. what didnt you enjoy about the game?

[y2kev]

Eternal Darkness probably is better than The Darkness, when all is said and done.

ED is not a chore to control.

ED > Darkness

They are surprisingly similar otherwise!

[louegi]

Eternal Darkness probably is better than The Darkness, when all is said and done.

considering the darkness came out in 2007, years after ED, it cant really be compared. similar... except years apart? right....

ED was unique for its time. Combat was original for an action game of its vein, story and characters were interesting, chapter progression was sweet, graphics were nice, voice acting was really really good... i mean what more could you want from a game of that era?

[TVC15]

Eternal Darkness probably is better than The Darkness, when all is said and done.

considering the darkness came out in 2007, years after ED, it cant really be compared. similar... except years apart? right....

ED was unique for its time. Combat was original for an action game of its vein, story and characters were interesting, chapter progression was sweet, graphics were nice, voice acting was really really good... i mean what more could you want from a game of that era?

Being that, off the top of my head, BF1942 came out in 2002, people could have wanted quite a bit more out of a game of that, er, "era."

[Howard Alan Treesong]

TVC did I tell ya I met the guy who invented BF1942 at a party last weekend

move to the OC (don't call it that), I'll let you move in mah social circles

Eternal Darkness had a Xenogears-sized impact on the industry. which is to say, a lot of fanboys got hot and bothered and nobody else noticed

[TVC15]

TVC did I tell ya I met the guy who invented BF1942 at a party last weekend

move to the OC (don't call it that), I'll let you move in mah social circles

Eternal Darkness had a Xenogears-sized impact on the industry. which is to say, a lot of fanboys got hot and bothered and nobody else noticed

If I could find employment there, I would definitely move there, even if only to be closer to my precious Corny.

[louegi]

Eternal Darkness probably is better than The Darkness, when all is said and done.

considering the darkness came out in 2007, years after ED, it cant really be compared. similar... except years apart? right....

ED was unique for its time. Combat was original for an action game of its vein, story and characters were interesting, chapter progression was sweet, graphics were nice, voice acting was really really good... i mean what more could you want from a game of that era?

Being that, off the top of my head, BF1942 came out in 2002, people could have wanted quite a bit more out of a game of that, er, "era."

ok, fine.

now how about come up with a game of the same "genre." resident evil, perhaps. yeah...

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Silent Hill 2 came out before ED and had better graphics, story, presentation, and FEAR FACTOR

WHY AM I ARGUING WITH YOU

[border]

Not to mention that Silent Hill 1 came out even before Silent Hill 2!