Author Topic: First Too Human review  (Read 26568 times)

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cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #120 on: July 01, 2008, 01:46:28 AM »
did they really? i was watching today's footage and wondering why they didn't spring for some fucking motion capture. maybe dyack intended to hire martial artists but accidentally spent the money on fried foodstuffs

I'm sure it was on a check list he lost along with DMC level combat and 4 player co-op.

drohne

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #121 on: July 01, 2008, 01:52:13 AM »
well, i guess i wouldn't know what raw mocap looks like. it seemed to me like they were using really unnatural, short loops for all the walking and running animations

Crushed

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #122 on: July 01, 2008, 01:52:59 AM »
drohne, from what i can see is it looks like raw mocap footage.
Denis was probably trying to get the real experience of watching a person's movements unedited by digital trickery; just like... a play.


By Shakespeare.
wtc

Van Cruncheon

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #123 on: July 01, 2008, 01:57:55 AM »
i gotta say, while the rest of the scores for too human may be deservedly low, my sense of schadenfreude is a straight up gamespot 9.7, maybe even a 9.8
duc

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #124 on: July 01, 2008, 01:59:42 AM »
I am guessing a 9.9 from IGN.  Maybe even a 10 to complete their streak of bullshit.

B- from 1up since that score is so popular.

Crushed

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #125 on: July 01, 2008, 02:09:30 AM »
PS drohne: I noticed on GAF you seemed to think that "Sanity's Redemption" was almost bad enough for a real SK subtitle.

Well, it sorta is real. At a certain point after finishing a chapter in ED, there's an insanity effect where it cuts to a "TO BE CONTINUED" screen that says something about, "The Battle Rages On... ETERNAL DARKNESS: SANITY'S REDEMPTION~ Coming Soon..."


I must say, the way the screen was presented was actually convincing; it was very reminiscent of the "LIKE THE DEMO? BUY OUR GAME!" screens that appeared at the end of late 90's PC demos, down the cheap fade-ins and amateur design of the text and borders next to some art. It took me half a second to remember that there was a bunch of stuff I hadn't explored yet, so there was no way it could really be finished.
wtc

drohne

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #126 on: July 01, 2008, 02:19:50 AM »
figures. i wonder if too human actually ends with a screen to that effect

Bildi

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #127 on: July 01, 2008, 03:02:32 AM »
So.... anyone else getting Too Human?

MCD

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #128 on: July 01, 2008, 03:03:50 AM »
So.... anyone else getting Too Human?
i will wait for demi's impressions if he gets it.

Bildi

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #129 on: July 01, 2008, 03:33:36 AM »
If it turns out OK I probably won't get it for a couple of months admittedly.  Got too many games to catch up on already.

border

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #130 on: July 01, 2008, 05:15:49 AM »
http://feeds.ign.com/~r/ignfeeds/all/~3/323829576/885448p1.html
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/885/885448p1.html?RSSwhen2008-06-30_230900&RSSid=885448

IGN's List of Top 5 problems with Too Human.....or what they charitably call "Top 5 Quick Fixes".  For the clicking impaired it boils down to:

-Camera Problems
-No Training Mode
-Nobody knows anything about Norse mythology so none of this shit makes much sense ( Suggested Solution: Norse Encyclopedia included in game WTFLOL)
-When looting, it is difficult to tell which items will be useful to your class
-Framerate dives with 10-12 characters on the screen ("Gee I wonder why 4 player co-op got cut?")

Anyone here in development want to comment on how "quickly" these things can actually be fixed?  Especially considering that, in Dyack's own words the game was "days away" from going gold in mid-June?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 05:17:34 AM by border »

Eric P

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #131 on: July 01, 2008, 07:52:20 AM »
no you didn't

you really didn't

i did

i played it multiple times even.

Tonya

Eel O'Brian

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #132 on: July 01, 2008, 07:58:39 AM »
i think i'm gonna buy it just because everyone's been such a fucking douchebag towards the guy
sup

Third

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #133 on: July 01, 2008, 10:44:15 AM »
Needs to be posted again:

(Image removed from quote.)

"Fight the haters Dyack, fight them with your fists!"

OH MY GAWD  :hehe

120+ people worked on this games? Where did Dyack/SK recruit those distinguished mentally-challenged fellows...

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #134 on: July 01, 2008, 10:50:23 AM »
Do you think it's just a matter of solidarity and loyalty? Some animators and artists that aren't up to snuff but that have been with the company for years? Or maybe it's just a matter of poor direction. Whichever the case, I'm now going to let my human side rule for a bit, and turn against dogpiling on the efforts of the animators or other technical staff. My point of contention has always been that the combat has appeared out of tune with the source material here, and that unfortunately hasn't changed. As far as technical proficiency goes though, lacking animation seems to be the rule in games, so I don't necessarily think this stands out as being much worse than the norm.

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #135 on: July 01, 2008, 11:07:26 AM »
Needs to be posted again:

(Image removed from quote.)

"Fight the haters Dyack, fight them with your fists!"
(Image removed from quote.)

^ what the fuck is up with the animation. i mean... seriously, wtf?

and look at the guy running into the frame from the right  :lol

What is most sad about those gifs (other than the horrible everything) is that one year ago, this trailer was already shown.  A year later, hardly any improvements at all.  It was like they ignored any criticism of it and felt they were right.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21528.html

Kestastrophe

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #136 on: July 01, 2008, 11:20:47 AM »
What is most sad about those gifs (other than the horrible everything) is that one year ago, this trailer was already shown.  A year later, hardly any improvements at all.  It was like they ignored any criticism of it and felt they were right.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21528.html
You're right. I thought that I saw that bar scene before, and now I remember that it was from E3 last year. What is so complicated about this game and why has there been little to no improvement over the last few years? This question is especially pressing now that we know that it can be completed in its entirety in 10 hours, and nearly everything about it looks extremely subpar (i.e. animation, graphics, battle system, environments, enemy models, etc).
jon

bud

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #137 on: July 01, 2008, 11:23:51 AM »
in the thread that video was posted a while ago, dyack said that the bar sequence and the nietzche quote would make more sense once you'd seen the stuff before the bar sequences.

...

i still don't get it
zzz

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #138 on: July 01, 2008, 11:27:10 AM »
Anyone here in development want to comment on how "quickly" these things can actually be fixed?  Especially considering that, in Dyack's own words the game was "days away" from going gold in mid-June?

Well, seeing as the game went gold in mid-June...and it's now the first of July...I'd say it's too late.

Most games lock out 6-8 weeks before they hit store shelves.
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Kestastrophe

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #139 on: July 01, 2008, 11:30:49 AM »
It's damn obvious this game was ready a year ago and they were working on the sequel already.
As ready as it were ever going to be. You better screencap that, you have 2008 posts  :o
jon

Bildi

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #140 on: July 01, 2008, 07:40:38 PM »
Yeah, the bar scene was shown ages ago and I was disappointed at the extremely unexciting cinematography and lack of "weight" to any of the movements and interactions.

When they showed it a year later almost nothing had changed.  If a remember right, literally a couple of cameras angles were different and that was about it.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #141 on: July 01, 2008, 07:56:35 PM »
What is most sad about those gifs (other than the horrible everything) is that one year ago, this trailer was already shown.  A year later, hardly any improvements at all.  It was like they ignored any criticism of it and felt they were right.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21528.html
You're right. I thought that I saw that bar scene before, and now I remember that it was from E3 last year. What is so complicated about this game and why has there been little to no improvement over the last few years? This question is especially pressing now that we know that it can be completed in its entirety in 10 hours, and nearly everything about it looks extremely subpar (i.e. animation, graphics, battle system, environments, enemy models, etc).

They've spent the entire year modifying Unreal 3 so it looks like this

Code: [Select]
Int SKOwnedIntNumberofPlayers = 2                                                //  Totally our own int.  We own it.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #142 on: July 01, 2008, 10:38:28 PM »
That bar scene is what finally brought me to write this game off last year.

(Image removed from quote.)

^ what the fuck is up with the animation. i mean... seriously, wtf?

and look at the guy running into the frame from the right  :lol

This game :rofl
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 10:40:30 PM by AdmiralViscen »

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #143 on: July 02, 2008, 03:55:37 PM »
Now they are relying on Penny Arcade to carry the "it's alright" torch?  :lol

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #144 on: July 02, 2008, 03:58:26 PM »
The best thing is that the people with the balls in their mouth complain about how those against Too Human selectively read and highlight text, then they go and do the exact same thing.  Oh look, Penny arcade says Too Human isn't shit and surpassed this guy's expectations! 

Oblivion

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #145 on: July 02, 2008, 05:20:00 PM »
kohler being publically ambivalent about an sk release is like a cardinal being publically ambivalent about a papal bull! what's next, even-handed criticism from matt casamassina

I don't know why people think this, really. Matt actually hands out criticism that most other reviewers wouldn't care about. He still bitches about Wii not being HD til this very day. The only issues are that his scores don't really reflect that criticism, and that he actually likes Silicon Knights.

Oblivion

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #146 on: July 02, 2008, 05:27:49 PM »
kohler being publically ambivalent about an sk release is like a cardinal being publically ambivalent about a papal bull! what's next, even-handed criticism from matt casamassina

I don't know why people think this, really. Matt actually hands out criticism that most other reviewers wouldn't care about. He still bitches about Wii not being HD til this very day. The only issues are that his scores don't really reflect that criticism, and that he actually likes Silicon Knights.
drohne was referring to Chris Kohler and Casamassina being the most vocal SK proponents, even after the horrendous e3 showing.

Oh, okay. NM then.  :-[

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #147 on: July 02, 2008, 06:12:13 PM »
Matt Assmass doesn't have shit on nzgamer

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11805959&postcount=1826

Let's trust this guy

hyp

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #148 on: July 02, 2008, 06:12:30 PM »
too human.
pyh

Great Rumbler

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #149 on: July 02, 2008, 09:14:05 PM »
More human than Too Human.
dog

Crushed

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #150 on: July 03, 2008, 03:23:17 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
Usually I don't like photoshops, but my Too Human hate is too much :'(

:rofl
wtc

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #151 on: July 03, 2008, 03:59:49 PM »
I guess Kohler and Tycho played co-op together

Quote
Tycho mentioned to me the concept of "serving," in which one player juggles enemies up into the air while the other one jumps into the air and attacks them while they're up there. It works. Other than that, though, the massive clusterfuck that Too Human battles so often become means that we couldn't do much in the way of division of labor -- besides one of us holding back enemies so the other could run and get some Health Orbs.

Quote
Besides the fact that we couldn't figure that out, the biggest issue that I had with co-op is that the camera, which is mostly alright in the solo mode, doesn't work quite as well here. It's hard to find the other player because you don't have total control over the camera. Our solution was to switch the cameras into Isometric mode, which pulls them back really, really far, almost as if you were looking at a game of Diablo. This kept things manageable.

"doesn't work quite as well?" It sounds like shit, really.

The Sceneman

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #152 on: July 03, 2008, 04:05:56 PM »
Im really looking forward to playing this
#1

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #153 on: July 03, 2008, 05:50:36 PM »
Did Dyack set these guys (Totilo, Kohler, etc) up with complimentary bangmaids or something? They seem to be scrambling for ways to not outright dog on the game.

And really, it's nice to see that the Dyack apologists are still pushing the whole "it's doing so many things, so it's unfair to expect any one component to be great" dumbshit argument of dumb shits.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 05:52:40 PM by duckman2000 »

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #154 on: July 03, 2008, 05:59:02 PM »
I think they all feel bad for Dyack.  I mean, someone who tries so hard only to fail.  It is almost a sob story, except Dyack acts like a prick so it ruins all of that.

Also, tomorrow on the 1upyours podcast, the second segment is all going to be Dyack bitching about how people are bitching.

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #155 on: July 03, 2008, 06:15:20 PM »
I've made that argument at some point, but then I'm looking at this and wondering what this hard work went into. Not everyone is a master of his craft, and that's fine, but I don't think Dyack's outbursts affects the blatant rumpshittiness of the animation or "art". Unless of course the staff was sternly directed by Dyack to make it look this way, and I guess that's a possibility. Warhawk certainly proves that a single person can have a devastating effect on a multimillion dollar development. So, uh, I guess maybe I agree with you.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #156 on: July 03, 2008, 06:19:34 PM »
I would just like to know why this game got so many free passes.

Everyone smart knew this was going to be shit since 2006.  Maybe 2007 for those not aware of the 2006 debacle.  Yet people kept apologizing for Dyack, kept screaming that this game was going to be awesome (and why?  Who the fuck knows) and time and time again, less than positive impressions.  Time and time again, Dyack talking shit and not backing it up.  Yet people still rabidly defend this turd (TH or Dyack, either one)

For the other SK employees' sake, I hope this game sells well enough for Microsoft to cut them a check to work on the next game.  If Microsoft bails, Silicon Knights is done.  Dyack has burned the bridges with Nintendo and Microsoft is probably one of the more generous publishers out there, money-wise.  Nobody else will give Dyack a chance again and will be forced to work on a lot of shitty titles nobody will play, like Backyard Baseball.
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y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #157 on: July 03, 2008, 06:33:31 PM »
sega
haw

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #158 on: July 03, 2008, 06:35:38 PM »
sega

I thought drohne was just joking about that.  If this is true, then SK has already embraced its status as a failure.
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Kestastrophe

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #159 on: July 03, 2008, 06:35:46 PM »
I've made that argument at some point, but then I'm looking at this and wondering what this hard work went into.
that's exactly right. The game should have made some type of visual or presentation progress over the last few years, but there has been hardly any (other than an improvement in the horrible framerate that existed in 2006).
jon

y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #160 on: July 03, 2008, 06:37:36 PM »
sega

I thought drohne was just joking about that.  If this is true, then SK has already embraced its status as a failure.

nope

working on a sega game

a terrrrrible video of a random game leaked last week and everyone thought it was an sk game  :lol
haw

Grecco

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #161 on: July 03, 2008, 06:41:09 PM »
Why the defense. Well ED was good. And MGS Twin Snakes was fun if your not a MGS Zealot

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #162 on: July 03, 2008, 06:43:07 PM »
Why the defense. Well ED was good. And MGS Twin Snakes was fun if your not a MGS Zealot

If that was the case, Haze would have been loved.  Like, ball sack in the asshole loved.

bachikarn

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #163 on: July 03, 2008, 06:48:59 PM »
If Microsoft bails, Silicon Knights is done.  Dyack has burned the bridges with Nintendo and Microsoft is probably one of the more generous publishers out there, money-wise.  Nobody else will give Dyack a chance again and will be forced to work on a lot of shitty titles nobody will play, like Backyard Baseball.

Did they really burn bridges with Nintendo? I thought it was just their philosophy was different (Nintendo with Wii Fit and shit, SK is all about ridiculous cinematic experiences).

Grecco

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #164 on: July 03, 2008, 06:56:58 PM »
If Microsoft bails, Silicon Knights is done.  Dyack has burned the bridges with Nintendo and Microsoft is probably one of the more generous publishers out there, money-wise.  Nobody else will give Dyack a chance again and will be forced to work on a lot of shitty titles nobody will play, like Backyard Baseball.

Did they really burn bridges with Nintendo? I thought it was just their philosophy was different (Nintendo with Wii Fit and shit, SK is all about ridiculous cinematic experiences).


I seem to recall them trashing Nintendo shortly around the time they signed on with Microsoft.

duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #165 on: July 03, 2008, 06:58:55 PM »
Well, it's all but guaranteed to at least sell well. I mean, it's a 360 game, it will sell. But yeah, for all the people making excuses for its shortcomings (you'd think these people would be the ones most critical of the game, really), this is Dyack's big epic masterpiece that would firmly establish him and his company as the pioneers in excellence in regards to everything from game camera to storytelling, it had everything going for it (not just an exclusive, but one backed by Microsoft), and now it we're asked to be, er, realistic in our expectations. Something in there just doesn't mesh with the rest.

On the one hand, I think a game should be rated based on what is as opposed to what someone said it'd be, but at some point Dyack himself needs to be squeezed about him moving the goalposts so far and so frequently. Every time criticism is leveled against any component of the game, a new definition of Too Human enters. From action game with revolutionary combat controls and incredible story (telling) to, uh, well it's got loot! And for all the yapping about Dyack being poorly treated and constantly doubted, this has come mostly from forum members, not gaming news media.

drohne

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #166 on: July 03, 2008, 07:06:01 PM »
i really think it would be a positive step for the game media to engage in some too human schadenfreude -- it'd help them shake their habit of fawning before publishers, and at least the ziff guys have got to loathe dyack by now. evaluating the game against his loony claims would actually involve a broader view than the usual braindead categorical breakdown

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #167 on: July 03, 2008, 07:13:41 PM »
They also fucked over their relationship with Sony.

...I just realized that this means Silicon Knights is Working Designs with fewer titles, and Dyack is Victor Ireland with crazier forum posts. That's pretty impressive.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 07:18:38 PM by Synthesizer Patel »
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duckman2000

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #168 on: July 03, 2008, 07:22:23 PM »
Quote
His melee weapon has a sentient AI trapped inside of it, forced to aid Baldur in battle. According to Silicon Knights, "The sentient weapons were, if you will, a very early experiment in using "fire to fight fire." They are essentially the captured brains of monsters put under restraints and forced to fight for whoever wields them.

The fuck is this, Body Parts the game?  :lol

Narag

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #169 on: July 03, 2008, 07:33:35 PM »
Quote
His melee weapon has a sentient AI trapped inside of it, forced to aid Baldur in battle. According to Silicon Knights, "The sentient weapons were, if you will, a very early experiment in using "fire to fight fire." They are essentially the captured brains of monsters put under restraints and forced to fight for whoever wields them.

The fuck is this, Body Parts the game?  :lol


Almost sounds like a nod to the Blood Reaver/Soul Reaver.
DMC

y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #170 on: July 03, 2008, 09:06:05 PM »
i really think it would be a positive step for the game media to engage in some too human schadenfreude -- it'd help them shake their habit of fawning before publishers, and at least the ziff guys have got to loathe dyack by now. evaluating the game against his loony claims would actually involve a broader view than the usual braindead categorical breakdown

guarantee it gets a B+ from 1up

edit: White Man said "SK is done" like months ago, when the suit was first announced...but honestly I just don't see it. Sega is already pouring money into them, they've recently expanded, and Denis is a car salesman of another breed.

SK is going to be fine. I even see MS funding the rest of this shitty trilogy. If MS does cancel it, I will sell my PS3 in support.


« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 09:08:18 PM by y2kev »
haw

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #171 on: July 03, 2008, 09:07:22 PM »
Suttner will probably give it a B-

Alone in the Dark got a fucking B-

y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #172 on: July 03, 2008, 09:09:11 PM »
I "called him out" on that on GAF and he responded by posting four shovelware games he reviewed as an intern. Xbot God Shawn Elliott also said under his breath that Nick likes everything on one of the podcasts...it's seriously true. If Alone in the Dark is a B-, then you might as well chop off the rest of the scale.
haw

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #173 on: July 03, 2008, 09:11:51 PM »
Yet he claims that he would give Twilight Princess a 6/10.  Crazy Icelander (?).  And since when is Shawn an Xbot? I think you meant Shoe or Luke or Che.  PDZ 9/10  :lol

y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #174 on: July 03, 2008, 09:17:25 PM »
Yet he claims that he would give Twilight Princess a 6/10.  Crazy Icelander (?).  And since when is Shawn an Xbot? I think you meant Shoe or Luke or Che.  PDZ 9/10  :lol
he's not, but he's an xbot god.

his "KEEPING SHANE IN CHECK" makes him an ally by default
haw

Grecco

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #175 on: July 03, 2008, 09:23:09 PM »
Nick is from South Africa Not Iceland (And he doesnt like everything he seems to hate 99 percent of Wii games)


Shawn an Xbot? Hes a PCBot that makes him an Xbot by default? Oh and hes a million times funnyer than the man god

Shawn  :-*

cool breeze

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #176 on: July 03, 2008, 09:24:25 PM »
South Afrika? shit, I thought people were still guessing.

And yeah, Shawn is awesome.

y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #177 on: July 03, 2008, 09:48:57 PM »
Nick is from South Africa Not Iceland (And he doesnt like everything he seems to hate 99 percent of Wii games)


Shawn an Xbot? Hes a PCBot that makes him an Xbot by default? Oh and hes a million times funnyer than the man god

Shawn  :-*

yeah i didn't say that

nonsense post nonsense post

nonsense  :-*

Quote
Nick is from South Africa Not Iceland (And he doesnt like everything he seems to hate 99 percent of Wii games)

He gave Boom Blox an A+.

A+
haw

Grecco

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #178 on: July 03, 2008, 09:55:13 PM »
Thats why i said 99 percent.

He bitched about Okami and whined about how Mad World was on the Wii.

y2kev

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Re: First Too Human review
« Reply #179 on: July 03, 2008, 11:17:17 PM »
well you're not going to believe what dyack has done now  :lol
haw