Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread

[Ichirou]

Sorry Green Shinobi

Moon is a film. Avatar is a fun roller coaster ride

Everyone is welcome to his/her opinions. The critical and popular consensus disagrees with you, but that's fine. Carry on.

Translation: "Your opinion is wrong, and I am right because Ben Lyons and Gene Shalit agree with me! waaaahhhh!"

[Green Shinobi]

Seriously, Barry Lyndon, should there be subtitles, yes or no?

[Ichirou]

Why don't you buy the real movie instead of pirating, and find out, figgurt?

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm pretty sure most of the critics agree with me dude. It's a fun action flick that's very well done, but overall there's not much substance there. The 3D and CGI bring the film to life, not the writing or characters or story etc. It's devoid of any character or personality, and in a decade no one will remember Jake Sully or that blue chick that was kinda cute.

[Ichirou]

Avatar will be remembered as a technological milestone in filmmaking.  That's a noteworthy achievement of itself, but it's not anything more than that.

Moon, on the other hand, is a genuinely great film that excels at everything it does.   Especially surprising considering its minuscule budget.  Can't wait for the follow-up (if it happens, which I hope it does).  It was better than District 9, IMO, so I was disappointed it got no nominations.  You can't really trust the Academy to know quality nowadays, unfortunately.

[Green Shinobi]

I'm pretty sure most of the critics agree with me dude. It's a fun action flick that's very well done, but overall there's not much substance there. The 3D and CGI bring the film to life, not the writing or characters or story etc. It's devoid of any character or personality, and in a decade no one will remember Jake Sully or that blue chick that was kinda cute.

And yet it somehow managed to win Best Picture and Best Director at the Golden Globes, get nominated for both at the Oscars and sell the most tickets of any film in the last ten years.

Films can be good for a number of different reasons. Not every good film does the same things well. You can favor different films based on how much weight you give to each specific aspect of filmmaking.

[Phoenix Dark]

Moon and District 9 featured more imaginative designs and art than Avatar. I'm not denying Avatar's amazing CGI, but the art is pretty generic compared to District 9's alien designs or Moon's...overall set up (although granted, I didn't like how the computer looked)

edit: the Oscars are tainted. See: Crash, Million Dollar Baby, etc

[Green Shinobi]

You may not agree with the winner each year, but generally the films that are nominated are a pretty damn good selection of films.

[Ichirou]

Yeah, I think if Avatar wins, it'll mark the definitive death of the Oscars as a barometer for quality and it'll be just the thing pathetic turdlingers point to when they want to validate their mediocre taste in pap directed towards the lowest common denominator.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's like how the Grammys either award album of the year to whatever album sold extremely well, or some average pick the baby boomer judges gravitated towards.

[Green Shinobi]

So if something you didn't personally care for wins, the whole institution sucks and no longer has any validity.  

That is some strong fucking Haterade, guys.

PD, very few Best Picture winners have been the highest grossing films of their year. That argument has no weight whatsoever.

Why can't you guys just say something like "You know, I personally didn't like it that much, and I don't see what all the fuss is about, but a lot of people did, so to each his own"?

[Phoenix Dark]

guessing you missed the second part of my statement

[AdmiralViscen]

I cannot fucking believe GS in the last few pages.

[Green Shinobi]

guessing you missed the second part of my statement

As I said, you can argue about specific choices (Chariots of Fire over Raiders of the Lost Ark, Shakespeare in Love over Saving Private Ryan, Forrest Gump over The Shawshank Redemption, Dances With Wolves over Goodfellas), but generally the list of nominees is solid. I would say that they definitely need to include more foreign, animated and genre films, but usually the list is good.

It's like an MVP race in sports. You might disagree with the winner, but usually the top 5 guys are 5 of the very best players in the game.

I cannot fucking believe GS in the last few pages.

 

This page is the first time I've talked about Avatar in a great while.

[Ichirou]

It's like how the Grammys either award album of the year to whatever album sold extremely well, or some average pick the baby boomer judges gravitated towards.

Not to mention the tendency of the Oscars to later give on "make-up" awards when they realized they screwed someone over in previous years, like giving Denzel an Oscar for Training Day because they "owed" him one, or the buzz that Jeff Bridges should win and Oscar this year because he's been nominated 5 times so he's "due."

[Green Shinobi]

Jeff Bridges deserves the Oscar this year because he was awesome in Crazy Heart, not because he's due.

[Ichirou]

Except Colin Firth gave the superior performance, but he's not "due" so he's probably going to get screwed.

[Barry Egan]

This page is the first time I've talked about Avatar in a great while.

Maybe that's true on Bore-Prime?

[Ichirou]

I think Glen Shinobi measures time differently than the rest of humanity.

[Green Shinobi]

This page is the first time I've talked about Avatar in a great while.

Maybe that's true on Bore-Prime?

That was about the argument about the film, not about the film itself.

This is a rather pointless thing to argue about though.

[The Fake Shemp]

I find it difficult to believe that you have any aspirations to be a writer, and genuinely champion Avatar over Moon in terms of anything of substance.

[Green Shinobi]

I find it difficult to believe that you have any aspirations to be a writer, and genuinely champion Avatar over Moon in terms of anything of substance.

I agree that the novelization of Moon would be far superior to the novelization of Avatar. But books =/= films and vice versa.

[Barry Egan]

This page is the first time I've talked about Avatar in a great while.

Maybe that's true on Bore-Prime?

That was about the argument about the film, not about the film itself.

This is a rather pointless thing to argue about though.

edit: nm

Here's a smiley:  :munch

[Ichirou]

I find it difficult to believe that you have any aspirations to be a writer, and genuinely champion Avatar over Moon in terms of anything of substance.

You know, my first girlfriend was an aspiring writer.  Creative writing was even her major in college.  You know what she's doing now?  Last I heard, she's working as a secretary while talking some night courses on accounting.

I really just tend to laugh (secretly in my ex's case) at aspiring writers unless they are actually actively sending out short stories and such to magazines and other publishers.  I remember actually trying to motivate my ex into sending stuff to Asimov's fantasy/sci-fi magazines and she was never quite happy with her stories so she never sent them out, ergo she never formed any relationships with editor, thus she was never published.

[The Fake Shemp]

I find it difficult that you could actually believe that the screenplay for Avatar is superior to Moon. If you do, I doubt you could give Jim Davis a run for his money as a mediocre funny book talent, well enough a half-decent novelist.

Why belittle yourself?

[The Fake Shemp]

I really just tend to laugh (secretly in my ex's case) at aspiring writers unless they are actually actively sending out short stories and such to magazines and other publishers.  I remember actually trying to motivate my ex into sending stuff to Asimov's fantasy/sci-fi magazines and she was never quite happy with her stories so she never sent them out, ergo she never formed any relationships with editor, thus she was never published.

Eh, I can't really judge - I haven't done anything of substance yet. It's tough to get over that confidence hurdle. I constantly toss away pages. This latest screenplay should have been done a month ago, but I struggle with it on a daily basis.

[Ichirou]

See, I would be laughing at you, but at least you have The Projectionist going on.

[Green Shinobi]

I find it difficult that you could actually believe that the screenplay for Avatar is superior to Moon.

I don't. I have never said that. In fact, I have never once made the claim that Avatar's screenplay is great.

Let's change the subject though. Everyone has said everything there is to say on both sides of this debate.

[The Fake Shemp]

Small potatoes, and that's if it can get financing (we're battling with the majors on numbers). This industry will chew you up and spit you out. There's the rare, overnight phenom (Troy Duffy!), but in reality, it's a grueling, long stretch to make anything worthwhile.

But I like to keep my tastes in context. I loved the shit out of Drag Me to Hell, but if I told you it had a better screenplay than The Exorcist, I probably shouldn't be a writer.

[Ichirou]

Does Troy Duffy even count anymore?

[The Fake Shemp]

I am at a point in my life where if my career was defined by a single Troy Duffy-like event, I would be content with that.

I recognize the reality that a writer with my particular strengths has a small window of time to get stuff produced. I'm a genre writer. That's what I do. That means I will have a short shelf life, until the industry moves on to someone else. And I'm okay with that.

[ToxicAdam]

Saw Public Enemies. It was okay. Enjoyable to watch but the minute it is over you didn't feel anything  and forget what had just happened. Too much gunplay and not enough acting. I don't mind a movie that is all gunfights, but at least make them visceral or bring something new.


Gonna watch Moon tomorrow morning.

[Green Shinobi]

I watched about 20 minutes of Public Enemies on my recent plane-ride to Korea, and I can't remember much. It reminded me of a shitty version of The Untouchables.

[Great Rumbler]

Moon is better than 4 out of 6 Star Wars movies.

I didn't really notice the score though. I'll have to watch it again and pay closer attention to the music.

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[ToxicAdam]

I watched about 20 minutes of Public Enemies on my recent plane-ride to Korea, and I can't remember much. It reminded me of a shitty version of The Untouchables.

That's another thing. What made Untouchables great was that it featured a bunch of 'name' actors that you could easily identify and track through the film. Public Enemies have a bunch of non-descript character actors playing Dillinger's gang, so you can't keep track of who the hell is who during the shootouts. Nor do you even care as they slowly die off.

[Green Shinobi]

Barry Lyndon

Amazing first half, utterly depressing second half. There is not a single likable character in the whole thing by the end of the film. Barry is a royal prick, and his stepson Bullingdon is a huge cunt (his actions in the duel scene in particular made me despise him with a singular passion).

But damn if it wasn't the most visually beautiful 18th century period piece ever. The set-pieces were fantastic. The camera angles and framing were consistently excellent. I was surprised to learn that many of the interior scenes were shot entirely by candlelight. It's quite a cinematographic achievement. And the atmosphere throughout the film was just perfect. Great music as well.

I didn't like it as well as 2001, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket or A Clockwork Orange. I'd say it's up there with Dr. Strangelove (which a lot of people rank as his best film, but I've never enjoyed quite as much) or Spartacus for me.

I'll probably watch Paths of Glory next. Still need to see that, The Killing, Killer's Kiss, Fear and Desire, Lolita and Eyes Wide Shut.

[Phoenix Dark]

Is it better than Avatar?

[Ichirou]

A better question is, is it better than the last hour of Aliens?

[Green Shinobi]

In what way? They're completely different films. That's like asking if a Haydn symphony is better than Dark Side of the Moon.

I can appreciate the directorial mastery in the film, but let's just say that I wouldn't run out to go see Barry Lyndon four times in theaters. As I said, it's definitely not top-tier Kubrick IMO.

[Green Shinobi]

The Virgin Spring

Bergman
Max Von Sydow

Possibly my favorite Bergman film. A great revenge tale that also poses numerous philosophical and moral questions. While the central rape scene isn't as graphic as films like Irreversible or The Hills Have Eyes, it's still very upsetting. A big part of that is because of the perfect casting of Karin. Birgitta Peterson is just so pure, happy and innocent-looking in this film that you can't stand the thought of any harm coming to her, and when it does, you want the people responsible to suffer. Max Von Sydow, playing Karin's father, is excellent as the vengeful parent who brings his daughter's murderers to justice. He doesn't have a lot of dialogue, but he conveys so much through his expressions and body language, and the dialogue he does have is very efficient at building his character.

Gunnel Lindblom is great as Karin's jealous and pregnant foster sister. My favorite part involving her character is when

spoiler (click to show/hide)

she blames herself for the death of her foster sister, believing that she somehow invoked a curse that possessed the herdsmen and drove them to rape and murder Karin. This is great because it makes you think so much about what it would take to be capable of such a horrific crime as the one in this film. It really makes you think about the fact that in the past, people genuinely believed that crimes like this could be caused by demonic possession. But the real demon is simple human lust, and the only ones responsible for the crime are the men who eventually die for it.

[close]

The youngest herdsman, who doesn't take part in the rape, was also pretty great. I loved how the crime visibly upset him to the point where he was unable to eat or drink. The minister's speech to him about hell as he lies in bed was really good.

One piece of absolutely superb acting in the film was

spoiler (click to show/hide)

when the herdsman unknowingly presents Karin's mother with the articles of clothing they had stolen from her. The way she maintained her composure while speaking with the man before making her way out of the room, locking the door on them and then breaking down crying was just incredible.

[close]

Great, great film. Bergman really gets terrific performances out of his actors, and his films are always superb from a visual standpoint.

[ToxicAdam]

Just finished Moon (instead of those lame Oscars).

Wow. Fantastic!

[Ichirou]

Just finished Moon (instead of those lame Oscars).

Wow. Fantastic!

Still my favorite movie from last year.

[Bildi]

I'm about 45 minutes into In The Valley of Elah.  Awesome, awesome stuff so far.

[ToxicAdam]

I don't want to overstate it. Because it's not a life changing movie or anything, but it just feels so good when a movie tells you a story and you feel completely satisfied after watching it. It never tries to be more than it is and it just delivers. It was like reading a terrific science fiction short story. A few characters, a simple premise and a crucial moment that just drives it all home (in this case, it was the scene where he finally contacts the outside world). That scene was just pitch perfect.

[The Fake Shemp]

It really was a great flick.

[cool breeze]

Moon was a better sci-fi movie than District 9 and Avatar.  Is the DVD out yet?

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, been out for awhile.

[ToxicAdam]

Yes, I just grabbed it from Redbox yesterday.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm thinking about buying the Blu-ray this week.

[Cormacaroni]

Moon upper decks on Avatar; it's so much better than Avatar it's not even funny. Moon succeeds in almost every single aspect that Avatar fails as a film. Although, years from now, we might look back and wonder, "What was the better amusement park ride: Avatar or Europe in the Air at Busch Gardens Williamsburg?"

Clint Mansell's score is also vastly superior to James Horner's score, but that's no surprise - Mansell is the best composer working in the business today.

Really? I dl'ed the OST for Moon and listen to it a fair bit. It's a bit one-dimensional though. Does he have more of a range? What else has he done? Other than be in Pop Will Eat Itself (IIRC)

[CajoleJuice]

Moon upper decks on Avatar; it's so much better than Avatar it's not even funny. Moon succeeds in almost every single aspect that Avatar fails as a film. Although, years from now, we might look back and wonder, "What was the better amusement park ride: Avatar or Europe in the Air at Busch Gardens Williamsburg?"

Clint Mansell's score is also vastly superior to James Horner's score, but that's no surprise - Mansell is the best composer working in the business today.

Really? I dl'ed the OST for Moon and listen to it a fair bit. It's a bit one-dimensional though. Does he have more of a range? What else has he done? Other than be in Pop Will Eat Itself (IIRC)

Uhhhh

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[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Cormacaroni]

I tried watching Fantastic Mr Fox yesterday, despite my loathing for the trailer. The kid hated it, which was a bad sign since she has awesome taste so far. I persevered for 45mins despite calls to turn that garbage off before finally giving in. Ugh. What a load of smug, contrived post-modern bullshit. Utterly unfunny to boot. Yet again Book > Film.

Maybe it would be improved by watching it in the company of hipster douchebags rather than wife and kid but I doubt it somehow.

[Diunx]

The Informant was fantastic.

[Cormacaroni]

Cajole, thanks, I shall check them out. BlueTsunami has been wearing me down with his posts about the Fountain, maybe I'll give that a look.

[Bebpo]

An Education

Was really good and the girl was really cute (she was 23-24 when she made that so I'm allowed to say that!  Well within my age range!).  She was like the female Max from Rushmore.  But then the movie got creepy and dark and then the final act was super rushed in 5-10 mins to recover which kind of hurts the film a bit.  Needed to be a half-hour longer and more expanded in the end.  Still a good film, though I dunno if I'd say it was best picture nom worthy.

[Green Shinobi]

Barry Lyndon is one of those films that I keep thinking about long after I've watched it. Looking back, it's becoming quite clear to me that Barry was forced down the path he took by the rigid, class-based hierarchical structures of his day. He still made some really bad decisions, but he basically had a good heart at the beginning of the film, and his environment really caused a lot of the change in his character. With that in mind, Barry becomes a tragic anti-hero, and my estimation of the film jumps considerably.

The fact that the the woman he loved at the beginning was his cousin kind of ruins it for me though. 

Also, a turn-based pistol duel with opponents standing ten paces away from each other and a coin-flip determining who fires first is probably the stupidest way of all time to settle a dispute. I know 18th century firearms were inaccurate, but that shit is just stupid.

[brawndolicious]

I tried watching Fantastic Mr Fox yesterday, despite my loathing for the trailer. The kid hated it, which was a bad sign since she has awesome taste so far. I persevered for 45mins despite calls to turn that garbage off before finally giving in. Ugh. What a load of smug, contrived post-modern bullshit. Utterly unfunny to boot. Yet again Book > Film.

Maybe it would be improved by watching it in the company of hipster douchebags rather than wife and kid but I doubt it somehow.

I can understand if the kid didn't like it but the smarminess of the main character was kind of the point.  I didn't think it was post-modern, I just thought it was charming...but who really knows what post-modern means?

[Green Shinobi]

Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Sucked. The old Disney cartoon annihilates it. The moments that should have had emotional weight didn't, and the moments where they tried to stir your emotions fell flat. The Cheshire Cat was the best part of the whole thing, and he was terribly under-utilized. The pacing was almost as bad as X-Men 3. The plot was stupid. Many scenes ended abruptly or felt incomplete. There was no flow to the narrative.

It kind of felt like the Kingdom of Heaven theatrical cut to me. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a half hour of footage cut from the film that would have vastly improved it.

Also, it wasn't even that interesting visually. Again, the Cheshire Cat was the best part, and he wasn't in the movie enough. And I liked Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum a lot more as creepy rapists than as benevolent distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

Guillermo Del Toro should have done this one instead.

[rodi]

I saw it tonight. I liked it, but then again I also like Speed Racer. Although, I do think that there was way too much Johnny Depp in this movie.

[Barry Egan]

I heard from another thread that people were talking about Bergman? 

Where's my monocle?

I refuse to talk about Bergman without my monocle