Author Topic: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread  (Read 5360131 times)

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chronovore

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25020 on: June 26, 2016, 02:33:41 AM »
(stealth edit)
Off topic rant deleted.

chronovore

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25021 on: June 26, 2016, 02:41:37 AM »
what's the thoughts on Midnight Meat Train, or Lord of Illusions? Neither really work as straight horror, but they put their own very weird spin on more established genres (private eye/investigative reporter in over his head). I likes em'.

Saw De Palma today, that is, the sort of documentary of him that's about his life and career, but really mostly his career, as major personal revelations about his life seem to only get raised when he's talking about how he took inspiration from them (I never woulda thought that Dressed to Kill was so personal for him). Its interesting, really great to see if your a fan/apologist, but its also a bit disappointing for its surface level approach to his career and for mostly eliding his post Mission Impossible work. Really, didn't have much to say about Femme Fatale, or his Orson Welles level of scuttled projects he's accrued over the years, really? Its a nice friendly chat from a guy who's made a lot of movies I've loved, but not really much more then that. Still, something to keep an eye out for if you like Raising Cain as much as I do (I doubt that's any of you).

also, Brian De Palma talks in an amiably dorky manner, its endearing (don't play the 'Holy Mackerel' drinking game if you want to finish this in one sitting).
I've been toying with watching that documentary because I greatly dislike de Palma's oeuvre and I've somehow convinced myself it will turn me around on the guy.

I want to see De Palma really bad.

Lord of Illusions is kinda a mess, but it's pretty unique and has enough going on that it's worth watching if you're a Clive fan. I feel just about the same in regard to Nightbreed.

Midnight Meat Train turned out pretty well. It's not as great as Hellraiser and Candyman, but you can see a lot of the same DNA in there. I remember not being very satisfied with how they handled the ending, but that happens a lot with movies.
Briefly misread your post to imply that Lord of Illusions was directed by de Palma.  :o :lol

Horror movie endings are usually the most satisfying endings for me, because they're commonly dark and pessimistic. Even so, I can't stand it when they roll out a surprise JUST to rationalize a sequel.

toku

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25022 on: June 26, 2016, 03:10:29 AM »
Nightbreed, as mixed a big as it is, also has a notably killer soundtrack. Very much in line with other early Elfman work, but it still fits along well with the Candyman and Hellraiser soundtracks.

Nightbreed has a special place in my heart partly because of the smoke vampire lady:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

but also because I'm a sucker for outsider fairy tales and this one has horror flair so I was doomed to love it. theres a ridiculous fan cut out there with massive amounts of cut stuff.

TVC15

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25023 on: June 26, 2016, 03:57:00 AM »
what's the thoughts on Midnight Meat Train, or Lord of Illusions? Neither really work as straight horror, but they put their own very weird spin on more established genres (private eye/investigative reporter in over his head). I likes em'.

Saw De Palma today, that is, the sort of documentary of him that's about his life and career, but really mostly his career, as major personal revelations about his life seem to only get raised when he's talking about how he took inspiration from them (I never woulda thought that Dressed to Kill was so personal for him). Its interesting, really great to see if your a fan/apologist, but its also a bit disappointing for its surface level approach to his career and for mostly eliding his post Mission Impossible work. Really, didn't have much to say about Femme Fatale, or his Orson Welles level of scuttled projects he's accrued over the years, really? Its a nice friendly chat from a guy who's made a lot of movies I've loved, but not really much more then that. Still, something to keep an eye out for if you like Raising Cain as much as I do (I doubt that's any of you).

also, Brian De Palma talks in an amiably dorky manner, its endearing (don't play the 'Holy Mackerel' drinking game if you want to finish this in one sitting).
I've been toying with watching that documentary because I greatly dislike de Palma's oeuvre and I've somehow convinced myself it will turn me around on the guy.

I only like early De Palma, but what I do like, I REALLY like. Sisters, Carrie, Blow-out, and Body Double are all fantastic. Carrie is one of my favorite horror flicks.

He really fell off hard and fast in regard to quality, though.
serge

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25024 on: June 26, 2016, 11:45:03 AM »
I agree to an extant, and I love the guy. Watching some of his back-half films, you can actually see how he's regressed to a certain degree, as he's always trusted his actors too much which leads to increasingly divergent performances over time (the usually good Rachel McAdams is terrible in his latest film, for example). There's a point that the film makes, and De Palma makes himself, although as obliquely as possible, is that he's a guy who needs the system. Call him an insider-artist, and when Hollywood changed, IE, turned into a PG-13 tentpole factory, he became an outmoded dinosaur. And as distinctive as his films are, all his best ones (or at least his most successful ones) seemingly have the most input from other parties (also some of his worst films, I didn't say the theory hung all the way together). 'De Palma' the film, makes a case for De Palma, the artist, but also for artistic collaboration.

toku

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25025 on: June 26, 2016, 02:14:01 PM »

Tasty

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25026 on: June 26, 2016, 02:18:02 PM »


Hatchet II was great because they gave him a beefed up roll and not just a cameo like the first movie.

Also, Zoom's voice. :bow


brob

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25027 on: June 26, 2016, 02:51:00 PM »


the last one was fun, this seems even funnier  :like

TVC15

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25028 on: June 26, 2016, 04:39:40 PM »
Watched Midnight Meat Train last night. While it's still fairly decent, I forgot one major flaw: it's clearly directed by a Japanese person. It has hallmarks of crappy jappy editing and style all over it. Leave your unnecessary slowing down and speeding up to videogames and shit.

This is probably also why the film feels ultimately hollow even though it features some very obvious Barker themes. The director was probably unfamiliar with Barker's literary work and couldn't make a more thematically rich film.
serge

toku

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25029 on: June 26, 2016, 04:44:24 PM »
Watched Midnight Meat Train last night. While it's still fairly decent, I forgot one major flaw: it's clearly directed by a Japanese person. It has hallmarks of crappy jappy editing and style all over it. Leave your unnecessary slowing down and speeding up to videogames and shit.

This is probably also why the film feels ultimately hollow even though it features some very obvious Barker themes. The director was probably unfamiliar with Barker's literary work and couldn't make a more thematically rich film.

My favorite Kitamura movie is No One Lives if only because of it being a gimmicky japanese mean/nasty cinema with a western cast.

brob

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25030 on: June 26, 2016, 05:44:01 PM »
Kitamura's Versus is a certified classic. I also have a soft spot for Aragami and Azumi.

Angelababy tho :lawd

(Image removed from quote.)



:whew

chronovore

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25031 on: June 27, 2016, 01:01:02 AM »


the last one was fun, this seems even funnier  :like
Oh, man. Poor Ron Howard. I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank, but I remember when I used to enjoy his movies.

benjipwns

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25032 on: June 28, 2016, 08:43:21 AM »
The Ultimate Edition of BvS seems like an improvement, especially the first half. Clark actually has some characterization and scenes and motivation. Also, he takes off his shirt. Lex is still weird, Lois is still strangely incompetent, but both have a bit more around than the edges than originally. And Lois actually does investigating.

The pacing seems better, like it was supposed to be. Only, the stuff they wound up cutting was better character and pacing wise while they kept dumb stuff which disjointed the whole thing. This seemed more coherent even if still overly long. Some stuff that felt like it was jumping all over the place before now seems like it's slightly longer like Lex getting a few extra seconds to be plotting in his head or somebody gets a couple extra lines to make something clear. Plus Alfred chopping wood.

Diana and Batfleck/Alfred are still the best parts by far though. It's kinda like the original cut had execs going "nobody cares about Clark, how about we cut everything we can regarding him out of the movie? And anything with Lois not being saved."

But maybe it's just better watching at home, or for a second time, zoning out during the garbage like Lois running around with the spear. Man of Steel was.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, when Luthor points out he's being considered not fit to stand trial by way of insanity, Bruce lets him know that he's getting him transferred to a special facility for the mentally ill.

 :dead
[close]
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:52:39 AM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25033 on: June 28, 2016, 08:43:50 AM »
http://furiousfanboys.com/2016/06/everything-added-batman-v-superman-ultimate-edition-spoilers/

Guess this has a summary of most changes. Though I read elsewhere that some scene orders are moved around too.

brob

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25034 on: June 28, 2016, 09:12:28 AM »
(obnoxious embedded vid)
the last one was fun, this seems even funnier  :like
Oh, man. Poor Ron Howard. I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank, but I remember when I used to enjoy his movies.

if u can't enjoy ewan mcgregor detonating a anti-matter bomb in a helicopter above the vatican and parachuting out to complete his grandmaster plan of being elected pope thats on u tbh :ufup

Tasty

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25035 on: June 28, 2016, 09:19:09 AM »
http://furiousfanboys.com/2016/06/everything-added-batman-v-superman-ultimate-edition-spoilers/

Guess this has a summary of most changes. Though I read elsewhere that some scene orders are moved around too.

Quote
Before Bruce Wayne leaves for the Luthor party there’s a new insert of him taking a shower and you can clearly see his bare butt.

Ben really likes baring all huh? Did the same in Gone Girl.

Also:

Kara

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25036 on: June 28, 2016, 10:27:05 AM »
(obnoxious embedded vid)
the last one was fun, this seems even funnier  :like
Oh, man. Poor Ron Howard. I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank, but I remember when I used to enjoy his movies.

if u can't enjoy ewan mcgregor detonating a anti-matter bomb in a helicopter above the vatican and parachuting out to complete his grandmaster plan of being elected pope thats on u tbh :ufup

Church.  :whew
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:32:26 AM by Kara »

Mupepe

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25037 on: June 28, 2016, 10:44:37 AM »
The Ultimate Edition of BvS seems like an improvement, especially the first half. Clark actually has some characterization and scenes and motivation. Also, he takes off his shirt. Lex is still weird, Lois is still strangely incompetent, but both have a bit more around than the edges than originally. And Lois actually does investigating.

The pacing seems better, like it was supposed to be. Only, the stuff they wound up cutting was better character and pacing wise while they kept dumb stuff which disjointed the whole thing. This seemed more coherent even if still overly long. Some stuff that felt like it was jumping all over the place before now seems like it's slightly longer like Lex getting a few extra seconds to be plotting in his head or somebody gets a couple extra lines to make something clear. Plus Alfred chopping wood.

Diana and Batfleck/Alfred are still the best parts by far though. It's kinda like the original cut had execs going "nobody cares about Clark, how about we cut everything we can regarding him out of the movie? And anything with Lois not being saved."

But maybe it's just better watching at home, or for a second time, zoning out during the garbage like Lois running around with the spear. Man of Steel was.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, when Luthor points out he's being considered not fit to stand trial by way of insanity, Bruce lets him know that he's getting him transferred to a special facility for the mentally ill.

 :dead
[close]
I'm actually excited to give this a go tonight.  That's kind of sad.  I still enjoyed the theatrical cut more than most so whatevs.

Kara

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25038 on: June 28, 2016, 01:43:04 PM »
This Suicide Squad viral marketing is getting #fierce. :whew


Rufus

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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25040 on: June 28, 2016, 01:51:42 PM »
Just gonna post that

Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25041 on: June 28, 2016, 01:52:04 PM »
Stop reading reddit before I do asshole. 

Great Rumbler

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25042 on: June 28, 2016, 01:53:46 PM »
What is a Tetris movie even going to be about?  :beli
dog

Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25043 on: June 28, 2016, 01:55:40 PM »
Not walking blocks with feet going to war.  That would just be goofy. 

Rufus

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25044 on: June 28, 2016, 01:57:59 PM »
What is a Tetris movie even going to be about?  :beli
There will be romance, count on it.

I just appreciate the fact that this exists. Announcing a trilogy just makes it that much sweeter.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25045 on: June 28, 2016, 01:58:20 PM »
Can't wait to get #TetrisSoWhite trending when the cast is revealed
:lawd
010

Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25046 on: June 28, 2016, 01:59:07 PM »
The world aint ready for a black square. 

Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25047 on: June 28, 2016, 02:00:36 PM »
But you can have another sassy black L.  Just what you wanted right?

brob

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25048 on: June 28, 2016, 02:04:52 PM »
The world aint ready for a black square.

hoping for a Malevich cameo tbh

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25049 on: June 28, 2016, 02:08:54 PM »
What is a Tetris movie even going to be about?  :beli
getting as high of a producers fee as possible from your rich foreign investors, duh.

edit: seriously, that is what this movie has to be about. The (American) guy fronting the project is the same dude who brought the world the pretty damn scammy Foodfight!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 02:14:29 PM by HyperZoneWasAwesome »

Kara

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25050 on: June 28, 2016, 02:34:06 PM »
What is a Tetris movie even going to be about?  :beli

The superior video game output of Communist states.

Joe Molotov

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25051 on: June 28, 2016, 02:51:58 PM »
In Soviet Russia, lines erase you.

©@©™

benjipwns

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25052 on: June 28, 2016, 03:20:31 PM »
I'm actually excited to give this a go tonight.  That's kind of sad.  I still enjoyed the theatrical cut more than most so whatevs.
It can't fix some of the fundamental problems, how it falls apart at the end (like nearly every superhero...or action-adventure film) or MARTHA!!! but I felt like I was enjoying this cut more for far longer. It does show how much they overstuffed the plot more but I think leaving that stuff in helps the pacing because it's a decompressed Snyder film to start with. Lex is doing stuff, Clark is investigating Batman, Lois is investigating Lex, there's more sensible reaction to the Capitol bombing than just "yep, that happened, now Batman is mad, also there's a bullet or something" etc. that the theatrical cut kinda races through. And I was a lot more bored by it despite being shorter. Especially Perry going "where's Clark?!?!?" and the movie doesn't even fucking know. Whereas here it's showing what Clark is up to investigating Batman.

I actually think worse than the Martha thing, which you could do in a way less dumb way, is how Supes basically gives up trying to talk to Bruce despite knowing he wants to fight and that he's never going to kill Bruce. So he shot you with some sonics and machine gun turrets, you're Superman, don't shove the guy a hundred feet away and then grab him and smash him through a building. Try: "Alright Bruce, enough of that, let's talk about Lex's plans we both know about."

This cut made that stand out way more when you finally get to it (since pretty much all the added time is before the fight) and you've seen everyone's hands being played and exposed up to the point, especially Lex's since it's unfolded by Lois (and the bits and pieces from Bruce's own investigation) BEFORE he explains it all to Clark whereas that's the only time it's really explained in the original cut. Lex just straight up says "oh yeah, I did everything so go fight Batman because why not" and in this version you actually already know he's set it up and how. Batman doesn't really know that side of Lex's plan, but Superman just got told the whole thing straight from the asshole himself and Lois has the evidence. And still Supes is like, well, I've got half an hour to kill before my mom dies so I'll fight with this lunatic who clearly has staged the entire area with traps and shot me in the face with kryptonite gas.

But I'm rambling now, but that's only because I'm sure that some day, one of these BIG comic movies will have a third act that doesn't derail every single character and the plot to halt everything for the big fight sequence. Civil War inversed it but the end fight wasn't worse off plot-wise because of its smaller scale.

Oh god, now I'm comparing Marvel and DC.

When do I get a Planetary movie series again?

benjipwns

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25053 on: June 28, 2016, 03:26:38 PM »
Also, I still love Diana's smirks and pure enjoyment during the Doomsday fight. :aah

Slams her into the ground and blasts her with his laser eyes and she's all  :smug :umad

The simple things. :aah

Tasty

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25054 on: June 28, 2016, 03:55:09 PM »
The world aint ready for a black square.

The world's been making black L's for a while though.

Reb

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25055 on: June 28, 2016, 03:55:13 PM »
In Soviet Russia, lines erase you.



I enjoyed this a ridiculous amount.
brb

Mupepe

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25056 on: June 28, 2016, 07:45:35 PM »
I'm actually excited to give this a go tonight.  That's kind of sad.  I still enjoyed the theatrical cut more than most so whatevs.
It can't fix some of the fundamental problems, how it falls apart at the end (like nearly every superhero...or action-adventure film) or MARTHA!!! but I felt like I was enjoying this cut more for far longer. It does show how much they overstuffed the plot more but I think leaving that stuff in helps the pacing because it's a decompressed Snyder film to start with. Lex is doing stuff, Clark is investigating Batman, Lois is investigating Lex, there's more sensible reaction to the Capitol bombing than just "yep, that happened, now Batman is mad, also there's a bullet or something" etc. that the theatrical cut kinda races through. And I was a lot more bored by it despite being shorter. Especially Perry going "where's Clark?!?!?" and the movie doesn't even fucking know. Whereas here it's showing what Clark is up to investigating Batman.

I actually think worse than the Martha thing, which you could do in a way less dumb way, is how Supes basically gives up trying to talk to Bruce despite knowing he wants to fight and that he's never going to kill Bruce. So he shot you with some sonics and machine gun turrets, you're Superman, don't shove the guy a hundred feet away and then grab him and smash him through a building. Try: "Alright Bruce, enough of that, let's talk about Lex's plans we both know about."

This cut made that stand out way more when you finally get to it (since pretty much all the added time is before the fight) and you've seen everyone's hands being played and exposed up to the point, especially Lex's since it's unfolded by Lois (and the bits and pieces from Bruce's own investigation) BEFORE he explains it all to Clark whereas that's the only time it's really explained in the original cut. Lex just straight up says "oh yeah, I did everything so go fight Batman because why not" and in this version you actually already know he's set it up and how. Batman doesn't really know that side of Lex's plan, but Superman just got told the whole thing straight from the asshole himself and Lois has the evidence. And still Supes is like, well, I've got half an hour to kill before my mom dies so I'll fight with this lunatic who clearly has staged the entire area with traps and shot me in the face with kryptonite gas.

But I'm rambling now, but that's only because I'm sure that some day, one of these BIG comic movies will have a third act that doesn't derail every single character and the plot to halt everything for the big fight sequence. Civil War inversed it but the end fight wasn't worse off plot-wise because of its smaller scale.

Oh god, now I'm comparing Marvel and DC.

When do I get a Planetary movie series again?
Turns out I wont get to see it again tonight but your explanation makes me happy. Those were basically my problems with the theatrical cut. There are definitely dumb moments in the movie, but the biggest issue was that it felt like half of the movie was just missing.

And hell yeah, Diana in the final fight is badass. The final fight is pretty great outside of Lois. Watching Batman bounce around struggling to catch his breath is one of the best on screen displays of a comic book I've seen.

nudemacusers

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25057 on: June 28, 2016, 08:18:53 PM »
I actually really enjoyed it; never saw the theatrical cut. Same tier to me as most marvel movies.
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TVC15

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25058 on: June 28, 2016, 09:39:46 PM »
Watch Candyman, you tit. It's free on Crackle for like the next 2 days.
serge

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25059 on: June 28, 2016, 09:59:44 PM »
Does Crackle still have those invasive ass commercials? The commercial blocks were way too long last time I tried it.
010

TVC15

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25060 on: June 28, 2016, 10:01:50 PM »
Does Crackle still have those invasive ass commercials? The commercial blocks were way too long last time I tried it.

Yes. They have the fucking worst timing. They split scenes up bad.
serge

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25061 on: June 28, 2016, 10:11:02 PM »
 :holeup

I watched Boyz In The Hood on Crackle a year or two ago and it was unbearable. They also had a couple seasons of The Shield for awhile. Speaking of which wtf is wrong with FX killing The Shield's accessibility. It's not on Netflix or anything else now.
010

TVC15

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25062 on: June 28, 2016, 10:16:08 PM »
I think it's on Hulu now, actually. Or it was for a while.
serge

TVC15

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25063 on: June 29, 2016, 12:42:40 AM »
Last thing I torrented was The Poughkeepsie Tapes. Was kinda okay.
serge

Tasty

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25064 on: June 29, 2016, 01:57:26 AM »
Last thing I torrented was The Poughkeepsie Tapes. Was kinda okay.

Underrated movie (though not super good overall.)

The Sceneman

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25065 on: June 29, 2016, 07:36:38 AM »
It was the first time a lot of people had seen a subtitled film, they thought they were supposed to like it
#1

nudemacusers

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25066 on: June 29, 2016, 11:30:59 AM »
Will say ben afflecks butt got me feeling some type of way.  :-[
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VomKriege

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25067 on: June 29, 2016, 12:16:29 PM »
Crouching... is the definition of a meh flick, riding on production value, star power and ennoblement by Western standards. It doesn't hold a candle to any decent Hong Kong equivalent from the nineties (all across the sprectum going from WKW to Tsui Hark), eighties or Shaw Brothers era. Sadly, as far as I can tell, Chinese epics since then either took a lot from it or taped the same well : pompous, precious & protracted.
ὕβρις

TVC15

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Re: The Movie News/Reviews Thread
« Reply #25068 on: June 29, 2016, 12:18:48 PM »
Last thing I torrented was The Poughkeepsie Tapes. Was kinda okay.

Underrated movie (though not super good overall.)

It's pretty good. It deserved a release. It just needed a twist or something with a bit of oomph. As it is, it could basically be mistaken for a straight documentary about a serial killer. That's kinda cool in theory, but in practice it just feels like I'm watching an average documentary about a serial killer.
serge

brob

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25069 on: June 29, 2016, 01:07:42 PM »
smh just because something wins an oscar doesn't mean it's dreck. crouching tiger, hidden dragon is great and laid the foundation for other post-wuxia like hero, touch of sin and the assassin. put some respeck on Ang Lee's name :bolo

(also lmao at deriding something for production value & western interest while bigging up WKW n tsui hark)

VomKriege

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25070 on: June 29, 2016, 01:43:29 PM »
smh just because something wins an oscar doesn't mean it's dreck. crouching tiger, hidden dragon is great and laid the foundation for other post-wuxia like hero, touch of sin and the assassin. put some respeck on Ang Lee's name :bolo

(also lmao at deriding something for production value & western interest while bigging up WKW n tsui hark)

 :confused
Touch of sin ? Is there a wuxia/kungfu pian I'm missing here (Touch of Zen ?) ? The Assassin is not an "epic" and may not be actually Chinese even going by funds invested (HHH being Taiwanese and all). EDIT: To clarify, I was mainly thinking of PRC funded films in the above post.

Hero is sort of OK, but it's still pompous, precious & protracted :yeshrug Red Cliff did a decent job with the formula tho.

As for Tsui Hark, come on man, he never amounted to anything much in the West, except in the enthusiast crowd : not my fault he also happens to be a profilic director & producer and the one that has an hand in most wuxia trends in the nineties ? I mean, if that's the bar, pretty much all the major talent from HK qualify.
But if you prefer, I'd probably take a decent Wong Jing flick or the Corey Yuen's Fong Say Yuks over Crouching...

However, upon some Google queries following your post, I will concede I misremembered the extent of the budget of the film and thus was wrong on how smooth of a ride it was to produce.

It's not a matter of winning an Oscar really. The film isn't dreadful by any means. Just pretty boring.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's better than some contemporary Tsui Hark's films tho. Legend of Zu especially.
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« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:49:44 PM by VomKriege »
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brob

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25071 on: June 29, 2016, 02:18:07 PM »
touch of sin is a post-wuxia film, aka it takes the formalism, choreography, and structure of it and uses it to tell a contemporary story (stories). this is maybe most obvious in its many king hu riffs, the Yu Tang Chun opera most blatantly. Jia is also working on another wuxia film now, tho I believe it will have a historical setting. The assassin is a 'master shot' film like all HHH films (see also: Wang Chao, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, Tsai Ming-liang, Liu Jiayin, Zhang Lu), which is why it isn't epic in the usual wuxia way and it, like most HHH films, mainly concerns itself with time-images, and how they operate in wuxia (which sets it apart from other post-wuxia films, which are heavy on allegories on nationalism; hero, the grandmaster, touch of sin).

re:tsui hark and wkw, I like both of them but it is undeniable that tsui hark chases whatever will get him the most funding and highest production value, and wkw is straight up a shanghai grand style entertainer)

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25072 on: June 29, 2016, 02:22:32 PM »
brob is right that CTHD did in fact spark a Wuxia boom, but other then reviving the genre, most of the films it brought about weren't creatively in debt to it, other then the healthy budgets that they received.

besides Hero, few of the wannabe global Wuxia blockbusters that followed (The Promise, The Banquet AKA Legend of the Jade Scorpion, Tsui Hark's Seven Swords and Zu Warriors remake, Warriors of Heaven and Earth, House of Flying Daggers, The Emperess and the Warriors) were all that well seen, or were even that great. But most followed the CTHD formula of finding a respected director, giving him tons of money to make a Wuxia film that usually had some extra romantic melodrama added to it. For several years in its wake, before the Chinese film industry exploded into the one we have now, seemingly every big Chinese production did have at least a bit of that CTHD DNA, if not in the execution, then at least in the financial planning.

and if anybody wants to shit on CTHD proper, they should really reserve that ire for the English-language shot sequel that's currently on Netflix. For which about the kindest thing you can say is "Well at least its maybe on the slightly better side of mediocre."

brob

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25073 on: June 29, 2016, 02:35:46 PM »
brob is right that CTHD did in fact spark a Wuxia boom, but other then reviving the genre, most of the films it brought about weren't creatively in debt to it, other then the healthy budgets that they received.

I'm making a distinction between wuxia proper and post-wuxia films (cf. critics like Dai Jinhua ,Hsiao-Hung Chang, Yung Hao Liu), the latter being indebted to crouching tiger hidden dragon, in the sense that they were born out of the wuxia boom, tho u are free to quibble with the weight of this 'debt'.

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25074 on: June 29, 2016, 02:52:15 PM »
You're obviously better read on this then me, I'll happily defer.

The Assassin is a great movie, its simultaneously an anti-Wuxia film that's also a very traditional example of it. Its taking a very well-trod story and telling it in the most unconventional way possible. Since its story is so abstractly told, all the typical beats it hits only becomes clear in retrospect. I really liked it, but I sure as shit ain't recommending it to anybody who's not already familiar with the type of genre its exploding.

brob

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25075 on: June 29, 2016, 03:25:28 PM »
tfw fog shrouds the world as u reject identity and embrace the oneness of life and its environment  :lawd :lawd :lawd

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25076 on: June 29, 2016, 03:34:59 PM »
what's this about you assholes hating on hellraiser

y'all dumb
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VomKriege

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25077 on: June 29, 2016, 04:00:27 PM »
brob is right that CTHD did in fact spark a Wuxia boom, but other then reviving the genre, most of the films it brought about weren't creatively in debt to it, other then the healthy budgets that they received.

I'm making a distinction between wuxia proper and post-wuxia films (cf. critics like Dai Jinhua ,Hsiao-Hung Chang, Yung Hao Liu), the latter being indebted to crouching tiger hidden dragon, in the sense that they were born out of the wuxia boom, tho u are free to quibble with the weight of this 'debt'.

I'll bow to your arguments, we are obviously not on the same plane of criticism here and I don't mean that as a slight on you, quite the contrary. I make no qualms admitting my interest in Asian cinema shriveled quite a bit in the haughts, when the HK "new wave" was probably my greatest movie love. I was speaking purely within the confines of a genera ("Historical" / "period pieces" wu xia & kung fu pians), and coming from my perspective, Crouching... is the symbol of the pivot from the last flames of autonomous HK cinema to a much more static, palatable style of film that I genuinely do find pompous, even pompier (proper translation eludes me, sorry). To reiterate a final time, the cardinal sin of the film is that it left no traces with me. I never found Yeoh very convincing in those stern movies anyway and Chow Yun Fat is far from being at his best (If he played saxophone for bigamy tho...). I'm a very down to earth guy as far as my appreciation of movies go, I guess. I didn't take away from Touch of Sin (a fairly good film, though a bit too long to my taste) what you're speaking of.

Regarding Hark, there's no doubt the man is a producer and that he chased the dragon of big budgets in service of his conflicted goals and opinions about American cinema (among others) more often than not. I never felt the man lost his artistic integrity however, even through his worse stinkers (he has some, yeah). Also, I may be reading you wrong, but I never alluded to an entertainment / commercialism stigma. Film is an industry, and any artistic achivement within this is often, to quote Scorsese, contraband. As a matter of fact, Crouching... is not entertaining enough to me. If I make an argument from purity, it's from a cultural and political stand, I guess... which might be even worse in a sense, and even less defined.
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brob

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25078 on: June 29, 2016, 05:36:15 PM »
I make no qualms admitting my interest in Asian cinema shriveled quite a bit in the haughts, when the HK "new wave" was probably my greatest movie love.


You're free to not like the movie obviously and it's fair to see crouching tiger hidden dragon as a pivot point, but if we are going to pin this on any one film, I would point to Hero as the film that changed the chinese industry. That film was actually made to be a blue-print for what a globally successful chinese blockbuster should look like, filling every production role with someone who was internationally recognized for their previous work: Cinematographer Chris Doyle and costume designer Emi Wada, for instance. Several were also specifically coming off of crouching tiger hidden dragon like Tony Chiung Siu Tung and Tan Dun, although it should be noted that Hero started production first.

But I think it's probably more correct to point to 'The Structural Reform of the Film Industry', which was developed shortly after China joined WTO, as a means to export more movies that would give china 'soft power' in the way that hollywood affords US culture world-wide recognition.  This was when the state-owned China Film Group became the China Film Group Corporation and private film production and distribution companies were allowed to operate (even foreign ones, although they had to be minority stake-holders in joint-productions with the CFGC). It was also a part of a larger 'trade restructuring' that would lessen the importance of manufacturing in chinese exports.

Zhang Yimou's next film Flowers of War was an attempt at doing the same thing but not having an all-chinese cast, because there were worries (at the CFGC) about how difficult it would be to distribute chinese films internationally without some sort of white-guy hook or whatever. But here they ran into the big issue of trying to turn chinese film into international blockbusters: the film denies nanking happened. Also, Christian Bale went and visited a dissident on house arrest for shits and giggles or whatever which resulted in a bad article in New York Times and little proper fanfare for the film else where. The chinese state have doubled down however, upgrading the film industry to a 'pillar' of the economy in 2009 (by which they mean it needs to grow to 5%GDP as quickly as possible).

Anyway, tl;dr: China has spent the years since 2003 trying to build its film industry into a blockbuster machine ala hollywood which is why there is less autonomous film movements or 'waves' these days. 

(also I didn't mean to give the impression that message board posts are serious and worth fighting over. it's all love backstage, u know)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 05:40:44 PM by brob »

VomKriege

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Re: The new and improved "Movies you've seen recently" thread
« Reply #25079 on: June 29, 2016, 06:15:04 PM »
Yeah obviously the stiffness is political first and it drips into the art. CHTD is free from that while Hero is bathing in an obvious pro state centralism message which is a little too much on the nose and sour the pretty images.

Don't worry about the tone, appreciate the perspective and as I said post 97 chinese cinema is not my forte.
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