DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!

[MrAngryFace]

TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA

[MrAngryFace]

TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA

[Debaser]

but MAF don't you think--

[Crushed]

uh maf that isn't true

[Crushed]

maf

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I don't think the numbers are gonna swing much either way. Both groups heard what they wanted to hear.

[MrAngryFace]

TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA

[Crushed]

mr angry face that

[Crushed]

maf if you'd just

[MrAngryFace]

TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA

[MrAngryFace]

TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA

[Crushed]

please if i could

[Fresh Prince]

I wish Obama addressed Iraq more forcefully, something along the line that a 'win' for the US is not the issue but self determination for the Iraqi people is or some other bullshit.

I think anyone with an IQ of 100 would have to give that to Obama. I mean you can fall for McCain lies and sentimentality but he just contradicted himself so many times.  

[TakingBackSunday]

First thing's first, I agree fundementally with Maf.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think it was a slight McCain victory

In the eyes of uneducated morons, yes. You know, the idiots who actually take the shit he says as the truth, when it's anything but. Motherfucking Christ, how in the hell can a debate situation allow him to get away with talking so much shit Fuck

It is about perception.  McCain took the stance of aggressive reform and Obama tried to use the rational approach.  As a result, McCain sounded more decisive, even if it was blatantly false, than Obama did.  Obama did draw first blood but McCain kept hitting back Obama...with lies.  The best thing about lies is that you can make up whatever the fuck you want.  People aren't going to research McCain's lies.  On that screen, it looked like McCain took the tough but somewhat sacrificial stance.  Obama, did not.

At the same time, Obama handled himself well.  He was able to locate some of his balls and made some nice hits.  In the end, McCain tried to bring sentimentality to it.  McCain had the years of Senate and his POW experience.  Obama had his father in Kenya.  In the emotional argument arena, McCain won.

Like I said, it was a slight McCain victory.  He didn't kill Obama nor was it a tie.  McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

[Mandark]

I wish Obama addressed Iraq more forcefully, something along the line that a 'win' for the US is not the issue but self determination for the Iraqi people is or some other bullshit.

I think anyone with an IQ of 100 would have to give that to Obama. I mean you can fall for McCain lies and sentimentality but he just contradicted himself so many times. 

After Adlai Stevenson gave a speech in 1952, someone yelled "You have the vote of every thinking American!"

Stevenson said "Thanks, but I need a majority!"

Might be apocryphal, was kind of a dickish thing to say, but you know.

[trh]

McCain's such a fucking condescending asshole, fuck him.

[The Fake Shemp]

Folks are giving McCain the edge on account of his superior handling of the foriegn policy section of the debate.

LOUD NOISES!

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Good thing the VP debate is on Tuesday to totally neutralize and then some of McCain's inevitable gains in the polls that we will be seeing come Monday.

[duckman2000]

McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

Right, but as you say, it's all based on lies. It's squarely because for some god damned reason, this man is allowed to talk out of his ass and get away with it without so much a slight breeze of doubt. It's not exactly a remarkable effort to hold one's own when one apparently has the right to distort world events to fit one's arguments.

[Fresh Prince]

There are a number of points Obama should have interrupted McCain like when McCain said< 'Oh so you're going to tell Iran that they should not bomb Israel' Obama should've of just said, 'No I'm going to say get ready of world war III nukka!'.

But as MAF says

TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA

[Mandark]

McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

Right, but that's squarely because for some god damned reason, this man is allowed to talk out of his ass and get away with it without so much a slight breeze of doubt. It's not exactly a remarkable effort to hold one's own when one apparently has the right to distort world events to fit one's arguments.

Yep yep yep yep which is why I keep telling people not to count Palin out.

[duckman2000]

I just don't get the debate format, or why in the hell there is even a moderator present. Any snotnosed twit could have moderated that debate just as well as that old fart.

[Fresh Prince]

Duckman says the truth. Reality is dead.

[Human Snorenado]

McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

Right, but that's squarely because for some god damned reason, this man is allowed to talk out of his ass and get away with it without so much a slight breeze of doubt. It's not exactly a remarkable effort to hold one's own when one apparently has the right to distort world events to fit one's arguments.

Yep yep yep yep which is why I keep telling people not to count Palin out.

Yeah, but you have to do it IN A COHERENT MANNER.  You can talk bullshit as long as it sounds like it's plausible on this planet.

[duckman2000]

Seriously, why not Ignatius? Wrong network? Well then burn this network.

Which Ignatius?

David Ignatius. Give that man the right to call them on their shit, and we'd probably have a good debate. Maybe not, but it couldn't be worse than what we got.

[radioheadrule83]

I was watching the feed on the CBS website... we're all cynically believing people are dumb enough to believe that McCain had a slight edge, but when they went to the monitoring studio, the people on the Nielsen machines were mostly Obamaniacs after the fact.

I still got some hopium left in me.
Do the right thing

[Crushed]

It is rather remarkable, however, that McCain actually had to hold his own, especially on foreign policy.

Shouldn't the experienced maverick (Ready on Day One™) be dominating?

[Debaser]

I was watching the feed on the CBS website... we're all cynically believing people are dumb enough to believe that McCain had a slight edge, but when they went to the monitoring studio, the people on the Nielsen machines were mostly Obamaniacs after the fact.

I still got some hopium left in me.
Do the right thing

I also enjoyed Couric offhandedly mentioning right after that she called up Kissinger and yep, Obama was right.

[The Fake Shemp]

Why can't we have an independent fact check basically tell the audience what is and what isn't a lie after each segment?

[trh]

Watching CNN live stream, they have an undecided voter on the line saying that she's now leaning more towards Obama due to McCain's negative attitude, amongst others. WEEEEEEEEEEEEE

ONE PERSON WOO! (it's good to hear though)

[duckman2000]

McCain basically "wins" based on the remarkably low expectations of his performance. It's like the slow kid on the team getting lavished with praise for finally pulling off a not-completely-shit performance, praise that eclipses the greater efforts of the sure bets. Even if he had to cheat to get to even that position, it's still a remarkable performance. Too cynical? I don't think it's possible to be too cynical at this point.

[Human Snorenado]

Why can't we have an independent fact check basically tell the audience what is and what isn't a lie after each segment?

Well, all the websites and shit have fact checks, as do the tv shows but it's up to people to seek it out.

[MrAngryFace]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

jesus

[duckman2000]

Why can't we have an independent fact check basically tell the audience what is and what isn't a lie after each segment?

The insane thing here is that this would be seen as the insane idea. When in reality, this is how it should be. That's why I'm pissing on the whole system here. You have a moderator present, for what? Keeping things within their allotted slots, and what else? He's certainly not there to keep things real, that's for damned sure.

[Mandark]

Biden is doing some spin and is completely schooling McCain on how to be an effective asshole.

[duckman2000]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

jesus

So, they are relying on Obama agreeing with McCain to win? Doesn't that make Obama the winner? McCain needs Obama, huh?

[Debaser]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

jesus

The great thing about that ad is that it suggests Barack Obama isn't ready to lead... because he agrees with McCain on anything

[duckman2000]

Biden is doing some spin and is completely schooling McCain on how to be an effective asshole.

Should have just let Biden do both debates.

[Fresh Prince]

I don't know how to feel. If the bar is so low for McCain's 'strength', Palin's got the next debate in the bag.

[MrAngryFace]

Hannah Taylor on CNN, fucking moron ireporter. HE SHOWED HIS KNOWLEDGE. God damnit. She sounds stupid on the phone too!

[radioheadrule83]

I do wish there could be a few caveats in future debates:

- don't use an unverifiable or irrelevant anecdote.
- don't resort to snooze-fest POW story telling.
- if your opponent interjects saying you are lying, they should get to explain how and why you are lying or distorting their position. Its only fair. Don't just repeat yourself and talk over them at a louder volume. You ain't Bill O.

Will there be a seperate debate on economic issues?

[Debaser]

Will there be a seperate debate on economic issues?

Yeah, it's scheduled to be the last one I believe.

[MrAngryFace]

Dont use a moderator almost as old as McCain.

[Crushed]

McCain basically "wins" based on the remarkably low expectations of his performance. It's like the slow kid on the team getting lavished with praise for finally pulling off a not-completely-shit performance, praise that eclipses the greater efforts of the sure bets.

so mccain is like uncharted

[Positive Touch]

Dont use a moderator almost as old as McCain.

next moderator is brokaw, i think

[drohne]

american political rhetoric is so irritating. the logical responses to statements like 'to speak to president ahmedinejad is to legitimize his views on israel' are for some reason off limits. i don't know whether this is because of the tacit political assumption that americans are cretins or because americans are, in fact, cretins. i don't know why i watch these debates. they only reinforce my political apathy.

[Mandark]

David Ignatius. Give that man the right to call them on their shit, and we'd probably have a good debate. Maybe not, but it couldn't be worse than what we got.

David Ignatius?  Who writes a column in the op-ed section of the Washington Post?  That guy?  Really?

Maybe he's different on TV, but I've always thought of him as David Broder lite.  Not great on details and has a hard-on for bipartisanship.  If you're not crazy about the current Republican-Democrat duopoly, I don't think he'd be you're man.

But that's just the impression I've gotten from his print stuff.

[MrAngryFace]

REPUBLICAN GOV THINKS MCCAIN DID BEsT MORE AT 11 OMG

[Mandark]

american political rhetoric is so irritating. the logical responses to statements like 'to speak to president ahmedinejad is to legitimize his views on israel' are for some reason off limits. i don't know whether this is because of the tacit political assumption that americans are cretins or because americans are, in fact, cretins. i don't know why i watch these debates. they only reinforce my political apathy.

Little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.  There's an expression in politics: "If you're explaining, you're losing."

Foreign policy debates are always dumber than domestic debates, because the public doesn't have daily contact with the relevant issues and can be easily duped and terrified by this sort of bullshit.

[MrAngryFace]

McCain can name lots of countries he must be AWESOME

[Mandark]

McCain can name lots of countries he must be AWESOME

He can also name all but one of Iran's current presidents.

[recursivelyenumerable]

McCain can name lots of countries he must be AWESOME

didn't watch the debate, but are you basically saying McCain = Antichrist confirmed???

[Akala]

Pretty meh debate IMO. First Obama couldn't get the old coot off of his earmark speil, then it just kind of trailed off. At least there is some venom flowing from these two, something missing from most of the Bush/Kerry debates (not counting undertones).

I honestly feel that this debate was something of a draw, if not slightly edging toward McCain. There was that brief period where McCain went off on him (talking to Iran). That gives me a very great hope that Johnny may fly off the handle more in the next one. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I want the return of SNL Hulk comparisons that sunk his first run! I want another fucking Howard Dean caliber YEEHAW clip!

[close]

After seeing Biden after the debate on CNN, my anticipation potential for schadenfreude for next week's VP depate is beyond words. 

[Human Snorenado]

The general consensus of the punditocracy appears to be that it was either a tie, a slight McCain advantage or an Obama win.  But NOT a big McCain win, which could have happened because "foreign policy is his arena" or some shit.

So considering that McCain was behind going into this, I don't think it was the game changer he needed.

[Rman]

I don't think McCain convinced many of undecided voters tonight.  He needed a slam dunk and he failed.

[Van Cruncheon]

maybe i'm too attuned to mccain's bullshit, but he seemed to be all over the place. i can't figure out how you'd call this a win for him, unless stridency is the only qualifying factor

[MrAngryFace]

best part of the debate was obama just goin bam you were wrong you were wrong you were wrong...that or spain lol

[Mandark]

maybe i'm too attuned to mccain's bullshit, but he seemed to be all over the place. i can't figure out how you'd call this a win for him, unless stridency is the only qualifying factor

This is the problem.  I was ready to yell "THAT IS NOT TRUE!" at the TV about two dozen different times, but I waste a lot of time on this crap.

The post-debate commentary always focuses on who "won" which seems to mean who made the best impression on the public.  That's kind of bizarre, because the commentary is being AIRED ON TELEVISION TO THE PUBLIC.

Rather than have talking heads guess what they think, wouldn't the American people be better served by someone actually using that time for fact-checking and providing the relevant context?

[Akala]

Rather than have talking heads guess what they think, wouldn't the American people be better served by someone actually using that time for fact-checking and providing the relevant context?

Wouldn't that be great?