Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1870534 times)

0 Members and 15 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7800 on: February 22, 2010, 08:21:02 PM »
GS:  So I was just reading the comments at Politico...

Mandark:  Why in the blue hell would anyone do that?

GS:  Did you know that there are a bunch of dogmatically ignorant conservatives?  I totally pwnt them, tho.

Mandark:  ...

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7801 on: February 22, 2010, 08:49:46 PM »
 :lol :lol :lol
Keep fighting the good fight GS!
©ZH

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7802 on: February 23, 2010, 06:02:42 AM »
So Scott Brown voted for the jobs bill. So much for being the next Ronald Reagan. Dunno why he thought siding with the dems on his first vote would be a good thing. Limbaugh's gonna have his legs broke.


Green Shinobi

  • Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7803 on: February 23, 2010, 07:19:47 AM »
Didn't he just vote for cloture?

Funny how in this political reality, voting NOT to let something get held up by a procedural glitch that shouldn't even exist is voting "for" it.

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7804 on: February 23, 2010, 08:52:27 AM »
See? A vote for dems is a vote for evil. That is how brainwashed these morons are.

"You voted for a jobs bill to help create jobs in a shitty economy!? I'm sorry I supported your campaign."  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 09:04:01 AM by Zero Hero »
©ZH

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7805 on: February 23, 2010, 08:56:03 AM »
Hopefully he gets cast out by the distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and votes for the health care bill to cuz there's nothing to lose :o

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7806 on: February 23, 2010, 11:51:18 AM »
The problem is that the corporation has no mouth to speak with. It only has representatives speaking on behalf of the corporation.
©ZH

Mandark

  • Icon
You never studied
« Reply #7807 on: February 23, 2010, 11:51:55 AM »
Then why are you on about decrying corporate personhood, a completely unrelated concept?

Because the SCOTUS decision extended first amendment protections to corporations, explicitly citing (and in the process expanding) the doctrine of corporate personhood as a central pillar of its ruling, in which it overturned a law that specifically limited speech by corporations rather than individuals?

You've got a funny notion of "unrelated".

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7808 on: February 23, 2010, 01:22:09 PM »
Hey JayDubya, why don't you read back another couple dozen pages and respond to all the stuff people were saying to you the last time you disappeared?

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7809 on: February 23, 2010, 01:39:53 PM »
 :lol

<JayDubya> And now is the time I vanish for two weeks, only to return once more to mock Mandark for one or two posts.
PSP

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7810 on: February 23, 2010, 02:00:26 PM »
JAYDUBYA:  I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of natural rights, which this margin is too small to contain.

JAYDUBYA DROPS SMOKE BOMB, VANISHES

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7811 on: February 23, 2010, 04:55:09 PM »
Great (and depressing) article by Glenn Greenwald about why the dems being 'for' the public option is all hogwash.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/23/democrats/index.html

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7812 on: February 23, 2010, 08:12:21 PM »
Green Shinobi, you have to preserve the corporate profits above all else. Even the people.
©ZH

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7813 on: February 23, 2010, 08:26:08 PM »
Or republicans alienating muslims.
©ZH

Olivia Wilde Homo

  • Proud Kinkshamer
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7814 on: February 23, 2010, 08:39:42 PM »
LOL @ conservatives still talking about Bill Clinton
🍆🍆

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7815 on: February 23, 2010, 09:10:07 PM »
It's not pussy footing. It's bribes.
©ZH

Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politi
« Reply #7816 on: February 23, 2010, 10:15:57 PM »
JAYDUBYA:  I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of natural rights, which this margin is too small to contain.
Impressive, Mandark.   :lol


brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7817 on: February 23, 2010, 11:40:05 PM »
Imagine if Lincoln had cared about alienating plantation owners?
The main reason that Northerners supported getting rid of slavery was because they didn't like the plantation owner lifestyle and believed that indentured servitude was too inefficient compared to a wage-based economy.  Unfortunately, no democrats are really considering trying to get that type of self-serving attitude on their side.

Dickie Dee

  • It's not the band I hate, it's their fans.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7818 on: February 24, 2010, 11:58:36 AM »
Zing!

The Senate is holding a hearing today where several current and former Blackwater employees will be testifying, but honestly the only way Congress would stop giving Blackwater money is if it started registering black people to vote.
___

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7819 on: February 24, 2010, 01:57:36 PM »
holy shit  :lol

Quote
Gov. Gibbons Caught Repeatedly Lying About Trip To D.C. With Woman (VIDEO)
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/gov_gibbons_caught_repeatedly_lying_over_dc_trip_w.php?ref=fpblg

Annihilation to embarrassing levels. How can a governor get away with this lol
010

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7820 on: February 24, 2010, 02:00:17 PM »
If he was a democrat, he'd lose his job. He probably considers himself a christian too.
©ZH

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7821 on: February 24, 2010, 02:04:06 PM »
"What are the odds this guy's a big hypocrite?" I ask myself.

Sure nuff, he vetoed a domestic partnership bill.  In his defense (?), he said it wasn't because of any personal beliefs but because he was following the polls.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7822 on: February 24, 2010, 02:05:07 PM »
I was gonna say "he makes Kwame look like ______" but then I remembered that statement is outdated now that the feds have a RICA case on him lol
010

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7823 on: February 24, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7824 on: February 24, 2010, 07:20:50 PM »
:patel
PSP

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7825 on: February 24, 2010, 08:48:08 PM »
[youtube=560,345]YuhfMWjHCkM
[/youtube]

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7826 on: February 24, 2010, 11:44:20 PM »
Oh hai, you're back to explain to us how corporate citizenship is "completely unrelated" to the Citizens United case.

I was worried for a bit.  We were all missing the mark really badly and needed the guidance of an expert in constitutional law who actually read the arguments and rulings of the case.

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7827 on: February 24, 2010, 11:45:29 PM »
I also want to know where in the Constitution it talks about corporations.  :smug
yar

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7828 on: February 25, 2010, 12:03:24 AM »
I'd be in favor of abolishing the party system completely. Rather than do anything useful, it just breeds an "us vs. them" mentality that bogs everything down and lends itself to lots of pandering to get votes.
dog

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7829 on: February 25, 2010, 12:04:49 AM »
I'd be in favor of abolishing the party system completely. Rather than do anything useful, it just breeds an "us vs. them" mentality that bogs everything down and lends itself to lots of pandering to get votes.

Ah, to be twelve and idealistic again.

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7830 on: February 25, 2010, 12:07:18 AM »
I'd be in favor of abolishing the party system completely. Rather than do anything useful, it just breeds an "us vs. them" mentality that bogs everything down and lends itself to lots of pandering to get votes.

Ah, to be twelve and idealistic again.

:patel
dog

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7831 on: February 25, 2010, 12:26:56 AM »
I'd be more in favor abolishing the Senate.  I mean, if we're wishing for crap that we're not gonna get here, that is.  Also, a blow job from Angelina Jolie.
yar

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7832 on: February 25, 2010, 12:29:47 AM »
I'd be more in favor abolishing the Senate.  I mean, if we're wishing for crap that we're not gonna get here, that is.  Also, a blow job from Angelina Jolie.

Vote Вiff Кoммiёslaуer for President in 2012.

"A Senate in every toilet and a blow job from Angelina Jolie!"

 :american
dog

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7833 on: February 25, 2010, 12:32:39 AM »
My friends are trying to convince me to move back to Athens, GA and run against Paul Broun for Congress.  I said only if they can guarantee me a squad of chicks in bikinis carrying guns to be my security.
yar

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7834 on: February 25, 2010, 12:40:21 AM »
[youtube=560,345]KBqtyvn7OVw[/youtube]

Watch until the end.  You'll know why.

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7835 on: February 25, 2010, 01:14:39 AM »
Would it be possible for an individual to become a corporation?

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7836 on: February 25, 2010, 02:18:20 AM »
Slavery would bring back the fun in investing.  I guess you could set up an Indian guy as your shell corporation too just to get around taxes.

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7837 on: February 25, 2010, 02:32:17 AM »
[youtube=560,345]KBqtyvn7OVw[/youtube]

Watch until the end.  You'll know why.

I posted this on this very same page, dawg. :P

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7838 on: February 25, 2010, 05:27:12 AM »
Kinda hard to get excited over that video when you remember the democrats are bought off too, to a lesser degree.

public option  :'(
rockerfeller :piss2
010

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7839 on: February 25, 2010, 08:51:16 AM »
So I guess you aren't even going to respond to my post on the last page, lol

Eric P

  • I DESERVE the gold. I will GET the gold!
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7840 on: February 25, 2010, 09:57:20 AM »
Just be plain, dude.  If you want to chat about something, bring it up.

ever notice how men always leave the toilet seat up?  what's up with that?
Tonya

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7841 on: February 25, 2010, 10:03:06 AM »
Just be plain, dude.  If you want to chat about something, bring it up.

Could I be plainer? I'll try:

What is the point in carrying on a debate with you if you will disappear when the questions get too difficult? Every 5-6 weeks you show up in here, grandstand, and then when people start picking away at your posts you vanish - only to come back and act like you haven't been here before.

How about you dig up the last dozen or so questions you abandoned, and answer those before starting up a new conversation?

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7842 on: February 25, 2010, 10:23:42 AM »
I did, a month ago, and you ran off.

And apparently this quote:

Hey JayDubya, why don't you read back another couple dozen pages and respond to all the stuff people were saying to you the last time you disappeared?

Is ambiguous enough for you to spend 4 or 5 posts twisting in your chair and saying nothing. OK.

You just said on the last page that you were "magically" reading back in the thread, why don't you read back to the last page you had a post in before your disappearance and pick up where you left off?

Also, your innocent act starts to ring hollow when you call me a douche for asking you to meet the basic standards of debate. I'm surprised I'd even have to ask that of an empowered individualist such as yourself.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 10:25:15 AM by AdmiralViscen »

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politi
« Reply #7843 on: February 25, 2010, 10:58:52 AM »
Let's recap:

-JayDubya, as a free actor, chooses to leave a debate with direct questions left unanswered.
-JayDubya returns, depending on bleeding heart sensibilities among his peers to absolve him of the consequences of his decision to violate the standards of debate.
-This fails. He calls them a douche
-That fails. JayDubya requests that someone take on the role of nanny state and compile all the stuff he chose to ignore.
-AV refuses, instead making this post and accepting his role as douche.

conclusion? There is no reason for a thinking individual to respond to you any longer, as you are likely to bail out at any moment and leave the burden on them to keep track of it all. Fuck off.

Green Shinobi

  • Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7844 on: February 25, 2010, 11:07:46 AM »
This is EB, dude. Who the fuck makes an effort to try to meet the basic standards of debate?

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politi
« Reply #7845 on: February 25, 2010, 11:10:34 AM »
you go above and beyond.
 

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7846 on: February 25, 2010, 12:04:08 PM »
The corporations in question are referred to as a "class of speaker" or as "associations" on multiple occasions.  You'll also see "person or group" on occasion.

Personhood appears in the document in question once, sarcastically, and in quotes, from the dissent.

Legally categorizing corporations so that they enjoy the constitutional protections originally afforded to individuals is corporate personhood.  I think you know this.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7847 on: February 25, 2010, 12:19:20 PM »
There's a difference between saying "I agree with the ruling" and "it has nothing to do with corporate personhood."

You get this, no?

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7848 on: February 25, 2010, 12:23:20 PM »
Okay, explain what you think "corporate personhood" means.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7849 on: February 25, 2010, 12:27:14 PM »
Free speech, like a lot of freedoms, is something you're all in for, or you're not.

Possible responses, in no particular order:

*  Well, the founders sure weren't all in for it.

*  If you think misleading commercial speech should be regulated, you aren't either.

*  And we all know you're not "all in" for the freedom of movement or the franchise.



edit: and don't bother with the angry defenses of yourself or the fathers.  I figure you've already spent the time mentally carving out exceptions and I'm not terribly interested.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 12:29:00 PM by Mandark »

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7850 on: February 25, 2010, 12:46:48 PM »
Quit trying to shift from the positive to the normative, plz.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7851 on: February 25, 2010, 12:54:17 PM »
Look, are you standing by the "corporate personhood has nothing to do with this ruling" bit, or not?

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7852 on: February 25, 2010, 12:57:32 PM »
Please explain the legal idea of corporate personhood.

Mandark

  • Icon
I don't think even Scalia has tried to give them "all" the rights yet
« Reply #7853 on: February 25, 2010, 01:01:37 PM »
So a ruling that extends rights to corporations, overturning a precedent that denied them based on corporations not being "natural persons", has nothing to do with corporate personhood.

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7854 on: February 25, 2010, 02:58:25 PM »
What were corporations when the Constitution was written?
yar

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7855 on: February 25, 2010, 02:59:45 PM »
Picking cotton with black people?
010

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7856 on: February 25, 2010, 03:14:44 PM »
The First Amendment is violated by the Congress passing laws that censor speech - the ruling overturns those laws.

The law limited speech by corporations.

In saying that it was unconstitutional, the implication is that First Amendment protections apply to corporations.  More than an implication, actually, because the majority ruling explicitly makes that case (though most of the language is in the form of "doesn't not apply to").

The extension of constitutional rights and protections to corporations is corporate personhood.  It's not the idea that corporations are actually people, but rather that a court can extend certain legal rights and protections to corporations in the same way those rights and protections apply to persons, even if the text of the law does not.  That is very much what the court is doing here.

That's why so much of the analysis of the case (by actual lawyers!) has focused on and debated the concept of corporate personhood.

The point is that independent of what one thinks of the merits of the ruling, corporate personhood was one of the primary legal issues involved.  The experts all agree on that (again, as a separate issue from how they feel about the ruling.

So my beef is that you mocked a bunch of other people for missing the point and talking about "a completely unrelated concept", only it turns out it's not unrelated, but pretty central to the case.  If you're going to get all dismissive and sarky about other people missing the point, it behooves you to make sure they actually are.

It'd be like someone not just defending Titanic, but claiming that it's not a melodrama.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
If Malek or anyone else who's qualified wants to smack me down a bit here, I'd more than welcome it.
[close]

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7857 on: February 25, 2010, 04:06:15 PM »
What were corporations when the country was founded?  What did the founders (you know, the guys whose collective salad you're continually tossing) think about their role in society?
yar

Flannel Boy

  • classic millennial sex pickle
  • Icon
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7858 on: February 25, 2010, 04:30:27 PM »

If Malek or anyone else who's qualified wants to smack me down a bit here, I'd more than welcome it.

I don't have a clue what's going on in the States; I have more than enough English and Canadian cases to read.

Useless Canadian Perspective: The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that corporations do have freedom of expression. The Canadian Charter, however, was written well after the idea of corporate personhood had been accepted into British and Canadian law. The Court has also interpreted all Charter rights very broadly and liberally. It has ruled that soliciting is a protected form of expression. It has, in dicta, even said that illegal parking can be a form expression. So protecting corporate expression isn't much of a stretch.

The Supreme Court has never really had to seriously grapple with the issue because they can rely of Section One of the Canadian Charter, which allows the government to limit Charter rights, as long as those limits are reasonable. This has, imo, allowed the Court to grant corporations freedom of expression without worrying about the consequences: The government can limit corporate speech, which it has constantly, and the Supreme Court then say the limitation is reasonable. Furthermore, the Court has said that commercial speech is less worthy of protection than other speech (this had no basis in law; it was a purely normative judgment on the part of the Majority).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I do realize that none of the above was the least bit helpful.
[close]
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 04:33:01 PM by Malek J. Lumberjack Jr. »

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #7859 on: February 25, 2010, 04:37:18 PM »
wrong thread  :lol
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 04:42:37 PM by Phoenix Dark »
010