Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1830838 times)

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Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1140 on: February 11, 2009, 04:18:42 AM »

 :rofl
010

siamesedreamer

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Re: What would you do, not where do you want to wind up.
« Reply #1141 on: February 11, 2009, 08:16:21 AM »
I'm getting the implication that we should let the market self-correct and trust that it will mete out the pain with efficiency and morality, eventually leading to your desired conclusion.  Tell me if I'm wrong.

With regard to the housing market yes.

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1142 on: February 11, 2009, 08:18:11 AM »
holy shit, I was looking at a site that tracks political cartoons and I saw this one. I can't believe someone could get away with making this  :lol



siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1143 on: February 11, 2009, 11:46:11 AM »
Quote
Negotiators on Capitol Hill wrangling with reconciling the House and Senate versions of the stimulus package have come to an agreement on the top line figure for the recovery bill: $789.5-billion, Democratic and Congressional sources tell me and my colleague Rick Klein

GOP sources say that negotiators are moving toward a deal but caution that it has not been finalized.

This is less than either the $838-billion passed by the Senate, or the $820-billion passed by the House. Committees have been told to get back to leadership with any problems meeting that figure by 11 am today.

The compromise scales back the tax credits for auto and home purchases and other tax cuts. It also restores some of the House education funding that the Obama administration has called "crucial." restored.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/02/stimulus-agreem.html

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1144 on: February 11, 2009, 12:01:37 PM »
I won't be critical of the education stuff until I see details .. but I just hope the money is funneled through the states as they are best equipped to handle how the money should be doled out.

I'm not a huge fan of new school construction. I see too many times where a district builds these grand palaces with their free money and then are coming back to the taxpayer 3 years later because they didn't realize how much it would cost to maintain/heat these monstrosities. I would rather see them take their existing structures and modernize them.




Eric P

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1145 on: February 11, 2009, 12:03:22 PM »
Quote
By Alex Castellanos
CNN Contributor
Decrease font Decrease font
Enlarge font Enlarge font

Editor's Note: Republican strategist Alex Castellanos was a campaign consultant for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign and has worked on more than half a dozen presidential campaigns. Castellanos is a partner in National Media Inc., a political and public affairs consulting firm that specializes in advertising.
Alex Castellanos says stimulus bill is a cover for a bold plan for government to rule key parts of private sector.

Alex Castellanos says stimulus bill is a cover for a bold plan for government to rule key parts of private sector.

(CNN) -- Two Congressmen walk into a bar to watch President Obama's first prime-time press conference. The Democrat says to the Republican....

D: Just watch the president tonight and you'll see how to get this economy back on track. Monopolies.

R: Monopolies?

D: Monopolies so big they will shame Parker Brothers and make them put the board game in a bigger box. Monopolies so huge, they'll make railroad tycoon Cornelius Vanderbilt look like a push-cart operator.

R: Why monopolies?

D: In these desperate times, we can't afford to let Americans choose inefficient cars or wasteful health care. We can't let innovation run wild on Wall Street or Main Street. We have to make sure Americans are secure in their health care and jobs, their incomes and energy.

To serve the greater good, we have to organize America's economy so it achieves the best possible ends for all Americans. We can't leave that to chance. Who knows what might happen if individual Americans make those choices in a free market and organize themselves?

R: A little less freedom, a lot more organization, all for the collective good?

D: My friend, we need a directed economy, where we limit people's choices to those that serve the best social ends. Our nation's development is best controlled by monopolies, not some atomistic economy where Americans are free to make almost any choice and organize bottom-up, according to their own whims. That means, big, honking, all-powerful monopolies.

R: But during the campaign, Obama talked about change, fueling "bottom-up prosperity." This sounds like the same old, top-down, industrial-age stuff Democrats have been pitching for years.

D: You betcha! Bottom-up campaign rhetoric just ran into the top-down Democratic establishment from Washington. Guess who won. We're going to create monopolies in the biggest sectors of the economy, starting with banking and financial services. Even after the meltdown, that's still the largest stock market sector, 16 percent of the S&P.

R: Follow the money.

D: Exactly. With massive regulation, caps on pay and restrictions on risk and competition, we can turn the entire financial sector into a cross between a public utility and the DMV.

R: And then?

D: We'll create an energy monopoly that would make J. D. Rockefeller look like a gas station attendant. If it has anything to do with energy, we will control it, plan it and direct it. You are going to love your windmill.

R: I'm not feeling so good.

D: That's next. A health care monopoly alone will organize another 16 percent of the economy. Choice and diversity are great, but not so much in health care. We'll throw in $20 billion at the start for paperless health records. Data, my friend, is power. You know where we will go: Cost controls. Restricted formularies. Nancy Pelosi can be your doctor. You don't need a lot of choice. Just a good choice. Or a good-enough choice. Cough for me.

R: Watch that. I'm leaving.

D: Now that you mention it, we can't forget the good old American auto industry. To borrow from Henry Ford, consumers can pick any color car they want, as long as it is green.

R: Who are you going to get to run these monopolies? You are dealing with increasingly complex economic networks. How are you going to coordinate the sophisticated relationships, the subtle interests and ever-changing needs of millions of American consumers? Americans have traditionally done that themselves, in a natural and organic way, one to another, through the market. Who is smart enough to replace all that?

D: Congress.

R: You are making this stuff up. The president isn't talking about huge government-run monopolies. All he's talking about is the stimulus bill. iReport.com: Share your thoughts on the stimulus package

D: Of course. That's the beauty of the thing. As long as we call it "stimulus," we can pass almost anything that expands the power of government to command people's lives. Why do you think Newsweek's cover says, "We Are All Socialists Now?"

R: I need a drink. Don't they serve Congressmen in this bar?

D: No. But you can buy one from a lobbyist.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/10/castellanos.monopoly/index.html?eref=rss_latest
Tonya

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1146 on: February 11, 2009, 12:11:27 PM »
Rassmussen is saying support for the stimulus package is growing amongst the public again. Very good news. Republicans have lost control of the spin war after monday it seems.

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1147 on: February 11, 2009, 12:18:40 PM »
Quote
D: Of course. That's the beauty of the thing. As long as we call it "stimulus," we can pass almost anything that expands the power of government to command people's lives.

Stimulus packages are dependent on there being a bad economy. Climate change has the potential to last much longer.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1148 on: February 11, 2009, 12:28:55 PM »
Rassmussen is saying support for the stimulus package is growing amongst the public again. Very good news. Republicans have lost control of the spin war after monday it seems.

The only thing that matters is how well it actually helps.

There's a bit of a conspiracy theory making the rounds though - Obama built up hype for a huge bank rescue plan. Geithner comes out with nothing. The market tanks. People get ever more concerned. Support for stimulus increases.

 

Crushed

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1149 on: February 11, 2009, 12:29:12 PM »
holy shit, I was looking at a site that tracks political cartoons and I saw this one. I can't believe someone could get away with making this  :lol



You don't know political cartoons.
wtc

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1150 on: February 11, 2009, 12:43:34 PM »
Rassmussen is saying support for the stimulus package is growing amongst the public again. Very good news. Republicans have lost control of the spin war after monday it seems.

The only thing that matters is how well it actually helps.

There's a bit of a conspiracy theory making the rounds though - Obama built up hype for a huge bank rescue plan. Geithner comes out with nothing. The market tanks. People get ever more concerned. Support for stimulus increases.

 

wasn't support above 65% even before Geithner's no show?  ::)
010

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1151 on: February 11, 2009, 12:51:51 PM »
wasn't support above 65% even before Geithner's no show?  ::)

Yea, in fact, the only people it was below 50 percent for were the republican voters.


Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1152 on: February 11, 2009, 12:55:03 PM »
wasn't support above 65% even before Geithner's no show?  ::)

Yea, in fact, the only people it was below 50 percent for were the republican voters.

Fortunately, there's fewer and fewer of them every cycle!
yar

CajoleJuice

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1153 on: February 11, 2009, 12:56:03 PM »
holy shit @ political cartoons
AMC

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1154 on: February 11, 2009, 12:58:08 PM »
You know what's really disappointing about political cartoonists?  David Vitter goes and gets caught with hookers and is outed as having a diaper fetish, and I still haven't seen one cartoon about it yet.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1155 on: February 11, 2009, 12:58:58 PM »
wait - what?
010

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1156 on: February 11, 2009, 01:01:22 PM »
wait - what?

Jesus Christ, Maurice.  You're out of your element.  Google "David Vitter + hookers + diapers".  I dare you.
yar

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1157 on: February 11, 2009, 01:05:14 PM »
Vitter was the senator the other day who wanted to put an amendment in the stimulus package to ban fed. funding for the evil and vile Obama machine ACORN right?  :lol

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1158 on: February 11, 2009, 01:07:04 PM »
Vitter was the senator the other day who wanted to put an amendment in the stimulus package to ban fed. funding for the evil and vile Obama machine ACORN right?  :lol

Oh yeah.  And he's made a big show out of opposing Hillary as SoS, Geithner, Holder etc.  He's got his reelection coming up in 2010 after all.  If Katrina hadn't happened and dislocated probably hundreds of thousands of lower income voters, he might stand a chance of losing, too.  Then again Louisiana loves their wacko politicians, so who knows.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1159 on: February 11, 2009, 01:11:57 PM »
:rofl holy shit this is one of those "sanctity of marriage" guys
010

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1160 on: February 11, 2009, 01:13:06 PM »
Rasmussen had support for the plan as low as 37% last week with a plurality opposing it.

And I can't find what poll Cheebs is referring to.

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1161 on: February 11, 2009, 01:14:20 PM »
:rofl holy shit this is one of those "sanctity of marriage" guys

Oh, it gets better.

[youtube=560,345]8y2cI7tyjVg[/youtube]

yar

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1162 on: February 11, 2009, 01:15:33 PM »
Rasmussen had support for the plan as low as 37% last week with a plurality opposing it.

And I can't find what poll Cheebs is referring to.
Rasmussen hasn't put numbers up yet but in their report this morning they note since Obama gave his address on monday stimulus support has risen.

And this is the most recent stimulus poll I can find:



The problems with the stimulus are for the most part considered the Republicans fault from the public's perspective.

y2kev

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1163 on: February 11, 2009, 01:17:01 PM »
lol republicans have left a dirty taste in everyone's mouth
haw

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1164 on: February 11, 2009, 01:17:58 PM »
010

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1165 on: February 11, 2009, 01:21:13 PM »
Republicans still get the blame even though they are out of power. :bow :bow

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1166 on: February 11, 2009, 01:21:15 PM »
The Republican's problem is that the big lesson they've taken from the last two elections is that apparently the only reason the public at large (aside from the South, where there's the whole inbreeding/racism thing) has turned away from them is that they spent too much money.  Nevermind the Terry Schiavo fiasco.  Nevermind Katrina, firing US Attorneys and otherwise politicizing the Justice dept. to the point that Eric Freaking Holder is an improvement, torture, illegal spying on average US citizens, bungling Iraq and letting the people that actually attacked us wander around free.  Nope, it's all the fact that they spent too much money and doubled the debt!

Didn't McCain run on that?  Gonna cut wasteful gubmint spending?  No more earmarks?  Yeah.  How'd that go?
yar

Rman

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1167 on: February 11, 2009, 01:21:35 PM »
It's weird how this whole stimulus debate is being framed.  For a long time the dems have been considered the party of no ideas, but right now the GOP is kinda fitting into that role, not really offering clear alternatives alternatives to the package, only saying add more tax cuts and reduce critical funding.  You can't succeed being the party of No.

Flannel Boy

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1168 on: February 11, 2009, 01:22:03 PM »
Vitter asked for God's forgiveness, so everything is cool now.

Not making this up:
"Several years ago, I asked for and received forgiveness from God."

I can understand how you can ask for God's forgiveness, but how exactly do you receive it?


Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1169 on: February 11, 2009, 01:24:46 PM »
omg Triumph  :lol

Yup here's the 37%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/support_for_stimulus_package_falls_to_37

Sounds like Obama won the spin war, sorry SD

That Rasmussen number was pretty obviously an outlier.

Pollster  Support level (previous where available)

Gallup    52 (53)  2/4
CNN       54       2/7-8
Pew       51 (57)  2/4-8 
Rasmussen 37 (42)  2/4
CBS       51 (63)  2/2-4
yar

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1170 on: February 11, 2009, 01:26:38 PM »
And those polls were all before the obama press conference that got over 50 million viewers, and I doubt Rasmussen is the only pollster to notice a sharp rise in support for the bill after monday.

Public supports the stimulus package and claim the problems with it are the republicans fault. I love it.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1171 on: February 11, 2009, 01:28:32 PM »
Quote
I can understand how you can ask for God's forgiveness, but how exactly do you receive it?

He hasn't been struck by lightning, has he?  So there you go.
QED

Rman

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1172 on: February 11, 2009, 01:28:45 PM »
The Republican's problem is that the big lesson they've taken from the last two elections is that apparently the only reason the public at large (aside from the South, where there's the whole inbreeding/racism thing) has turned away from them is that they spent too much money.  Nevermind the Terry Schiavo fiasco.  Nevermind Katrina, firing US Attorneys and otherwise politicizing the Justice dept. to the point that Eric Freaking Holder is an improvement, torture, illegal spying on average US citizens, bungling Iraq and letting the people that actually attacked us wander around free.  Nope, it's all the fact that they spent too much money and doubled the debt!

Didn't McCain run on that?  Gonna cut wasteful gubmint spending?  No more earmarks?  Yeah.  How'd that go?
That's the thing.  If they had stuck to their fiscal conservative guns during the Bush Adminstration they would have much better bargaining position.  But the general public sees through this fiscal conservative BS they are pushing, especially after approving huge tax cuts that benefited mostly the rich and two expensive wars.  One war that many think was unnecessary.  The dems aren't absolved of any blame, though, but congressional dems have never tried to claim that they were fiscal conservatives in the first place.

Not only that, but the GOP is just sending the wrong message to the American people.  Hey, it's okay to spends tons of money and lives on useless wars, but improving infrastructure, providing better unemployment benefits, helping ailing states, many who are almost bankrupt, no we can't have that.  The GOP is really becoming irrelevant these days with these attitudes.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1173 on: February 11, 2009, 01:30:06 PM »
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh
010

Rman

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1174 on: February 11, 2009, 01:31:20 PM »
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh
Is that so hard to believe?  Spitzer has three daughters. 

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1175 on: February 11, 2009, 01:31:52 PM »
I love it when I see republicans compare being against the stimulus package is like the liberals who opposed the iraq war at the time.

Because obviously giving needed funding to the public at a time of an economic crisis is very comparable to a unneeded war that killed over 4,000 Americans. Clearly both are dignified stands!

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1176 on: February 11, 2009, 01:34:10 PM »
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh

Of course. When else does a man need a hooker? It's not when he's married with no kids.




siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1177 on: February 11, 2009, 01:35:09 PM »
Yeah, I saw that Gallup poll. Its interesting to say the least. There was a good analysis of the competing polls on Pollster.

Not sure if there was a ever a spin war to win though. Obama was always going to get something passed. He set a signing date for President's Day. Not like the REPs have done anything to hamper that goal. Unless you feel they should roll over and give the DEMs exactly what they want. Going forward, the only thing that matters is how much the plan helps. I think he made a pretty big mistake in the presser Monday by saying the first metric on which to measure the plan is the unemployment rate. That's not going to stop getting worse much less improve anytime soon. We'll see how long the patience lasts.

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1178 on: February 11, 2009, 01:35:15 PM »
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh

Of course. When else does a man need a hooker? It's not when he's married with no kids.

As someone who has tallied the costs involved with dating a woman and compared it to the "suggested donations" on CL's erotic services page, I heartily disagree.
yar

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1179 on: February 11, 2009, 01:36:37 PM »
sd- you'll have to forgive democrats, we're used to our experience in the minority where in fact we DID roll over and present our puckered up starfishes whenever the other side asked us
yar

ToxicAdam

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1180 on: February 11, 2009, 01:38:03 PM »
As someone who has tallied the costs involved with dating a woman and compared it to the "suggested donations" on CL's erotic services page, I heartily disagree.

Most men don't think that logically. They have a false bravado or morality that prevents them from doing it. They would rather goto a bar and spend 20 dollars on drinks and hope to get lucky.



 --- ---


Most of the Poligaf kiddies are so blinded by their Republican hate, they don't see the genius of Obama. He is pretending like the Republicans are this big obstacle he needs to overcome to get this passed, when he has had this thing the whole time. He then can deliver that message directly to places like Indiana (newly turned blue state) or other pockets of America.

Obama knows the game. He only needed to flip a few moderates (Dems and Reps) and he was getting this thing done. Demonizing the Republicans was just for sport and for 2010.


« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 01:43:23 PM by ToxicAdam »

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1181 on: February 11, 2009, 01:38:32 PM »
David Vitter's wife mocked Hillary when Bill cheated on her saying she'd never stay with a husband if he cheated on her.

Guess who is still married to Vitter?  

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1182 on: February 11, 2009, 01:42:06 PM »
As someone who has tallied the costs involved with dating a woman and compared it to the "suggested donations" on CL's erotic services page, I heartily disagree.

Most men don't think that logically. They have a false bravado or morality that prevents them from doing it. They would rather goto a bar and spend 20 dollars on drinks and hope to get lucky.

Those guys are dumb.  Not to mention the mental/emotional capital you have to expend when you're dealing with a woman.  I had a one night stand just ONCE, and even though drinks/food that night cost me about $60, I also had to deal with her the next morning (awkward!) and dodge phone calls for about a week.  Even after that there were awkward random encounters out in bars or at concerts where I'd run into her, not to mention the fact that we had overlap in our social circles (unknown at the time!) so there was some awkward questions and finger pointing from friends.  Far better to pony up the $150-200 an hour for a hooker.
yar

Flannel Boy

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1183 on: February 11, 2009, 01:42:46 PM »


Most men don't think that logically. They have a false bravado or morality that prevents them from doing it. They would rather goto a bar and spend 20 dollars on drinks and hope to get lucky.


Or stay at home crying while listening to Rilo Kiley.

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1184 on: February 11, 2009, 01:44:14 PM »
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1185 on: February 11, 2009, 01:45:46 PM »
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Yeah, apparently Obama really wanted some education money put back in.  I'm still overly annoyed that this thing is about 45% tax cuts.
yar

siamesedreamer

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1186 on: February 11, 2009, 01:47:17 PM »
Those guys are dumb.  Not to mention the mental/emotional capital you have to expend when you're dealing with a woman.  I had a one night stand just ONCE, and even though drinks/food that night cost me about $60, I also had to deal with her the next morning (awkward!) and dodge phone calls for about a week.  Even after that there were awkward random encounters out in bars or at concerts where I'd run into her, not to mention the fact that we had overlap in our social circles (unknown at the time!) so there was some awkward questions and finger pointing from friends.  Far better to pony up the $150-200 an hour for a hooker.

Was that the Olympic girl? I thought you said she was a fourner?

Human Snorenado

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1187 on: February 11, 2009, 01:48:41 PM »
Those guys are dumb.  Not to mention the mental/emotional capital you have to expend when you're dealing with a woman.  I had a one night stand just ONCE, and even though drinks/food that night cost me about $60, I also had to deal with her the next morning (awkward!) and dodge phone calls for about a week.  Even after that there were awkward random encounters out in bars or at concerts where I'd run into her, not to mention the fact that we had overlap in our social circles (unknown at the time!) so there was some awkward questions and finger pointing from friends.  Far better to pony up the $150-200 an hour for a hooker.

Was that the Olympic girl? I thought you said she was a fourner?

Nah, I hung out with her for a couple of weeks afterwards.  This was a chick that kind of looked like Bjork, but chubbier.  The olympics girl was the hottest chick I ever nailed.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1188 on: February 11, 2009, 01:49:25 PM »
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Yeah, apparently Obama really wanted some education money put back in.  I'm still overly annoyed that this thing is about 45% tax cuts.

Isn't it 35%?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/washington/10stimulus-web.html?_r=2&hp
010

Cheebs

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1189 on: February 11, 2009, 01:51:38 PM »
Bobby Jindal is going to give the republican response to the state of the union later this month. Interesting.

http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=9826923&nav=menu57_2

Brehvolution

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1190 on: February 11, 2009, 01:59:14 PM »
From PD's article:

Quote
Senator James Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma, complained that for all the spending in the bill, it does not provide a sufficient number of public works projects. ,

“If we’re going to spend all this money, let’s at least get something for it, provide some jobs and get some roads and highways and bridges, things this country really needs,” he said.

 :dizzy

©ZH

siamesedreamer

  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1191 on: February 11, 2009, 02:02:05 PM »
Had no idea there was a SotU address in the first year of a new president's term.

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1192 on: February 11, 2009, 02:46:58 PM »
It's a well kept secret

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1193 on: February 11, 2009, 02:52:40 PM »
Quote from: siamesedreamer
With regard to the housing market yes.

You seem to be pushing that strategy wrt everything.  for example you want businesses to pay better wages but are vehemently against the minimum wage and unionization.  So I'll repeat, what would you do?

Quote from: ToxicAdam
Most of the Poligaf kiddies are so blinded by their Republican hate, they don't see the genius of Obama. He is pretending like the Republicans are this big obstacle he needs to overcome to get this passed, when he has had this thing the whole time. He then can deliver that message directly to places like Indiana (newly turned blue state) or other pockets of America.

Obama knows the game. He only needed to flip a few moderates (Dems and Reps) and he was getting this thing done. Demonizing the Republicans was just for sport and for 2010.

You ever notice you have a slight tendency to ascribe complex, nefarious motives to people on the other side of the aisle?  I'm just throwing this out there.

ToxicAdam

  • captain of my capsized ship
  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1194 on: February 11, 2009, 02:56:41 PM »
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Yeah, apparently Obama really wanted some education money put back in.  I'm still overly annoyed that this thing is about 45% tax cuts.

Didn't the CBO come out and say it was more like 30ish?


What exactly is wrong with what Inhofe said? Just about every state in the union has a point A to point B that needs to be connected or a bridge that is overloaded with rush time traffic.

Those type of highway construction jobs are accessible across all types of socio-economic groups.

This bill could have been a great opportunity for funding of new oil refineries, but no one even seems to care about our severe shortage. They still pretend like a miracle alternative fuel is going to fall out of the sky within the next 20 years.

You ever notice you have a slight tendency to ascribe complex, nefarious motives to people on the other side of the aisle?  I'm just throwing this out there.

Since when is assuring your side keeps winning elections seen as "nefarious" and "complex"?

« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 03:00:33 PM by ToxicAdam »

Beardo

  • Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1195 on: February 11, 2009, 02:59:10 PM »
This bill could have been a great opportunity for funding of new oil refineries, but no one even seems to care about our severe shortage. They still pretend like a miracle alternative fuel is going to fall out of the sky within the next 20 years.

Man bear pig?

Cheebs

  • How's my posting? Call 1-866-MAF-BANS to report flame bait.
  • Senior Member
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1196 on: February 11, 2009, 03:04:46 PM »
This bill could have been a great opportunity for funding of new oil refineries, but no one even seems to care about our severe shortage. They still pretend like a miracle alternative fuel is going to fall out of the sky within the next 20 years.

Man bear pig?

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1197 on: February 11, 2009, 03:07:03 PM »
TA:  I'm just saying, yo.

Why do we need refineries, anyway?  Are they really the limiting factor in current or future US oil production?

Eric P

  • I DESERVE the gold. I will GET the gold!
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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1198 on: February 11, 2009, 03:21:44 PM »
"Pork" Bailout Bill Could Ban Guns For Millions Of Americans
-- Ask your Senators to oppose HR 1

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org


"HR 1 is about more than just pork.  Millions of gun owners stand to
lose their gun rights without any due process." -- Larry Pratt, GOA
Executive Director


Wednesday, February 11, 2009

The Obama administration is putting a lot of pressure on Congress to
slam through the most recent $800+ billion bailout package before anyone
has an opportunity to read it.

The Obama administration intones that the details are unimportant.  The
only thing that matters is the "bigness."  And, by shipping a bill of
nearly $900 billion (plus interest) to our children and grandchildren,
the package is really, really big -- bigger, in fact, than the budget of
our entire government for the first 170 years of our country's
existence.

But now that some of the details are finally starting to leak out of
Washington, Gun Owners -- and a lot of other analysts -- are beginning
to look at the fine print.  And some of it is particularly scary.

Of particular concern to gun owners are sections 13101 through 13434 of
HR 1, which would set up the infrastructure to computerize the medical
records of ALL AMERICANS in a government-coordinated database.

True, the bill doesn't mandate that the data will be in a giant computer
under the Oval Office.  But it does mandate that your medical records be
reduced to a computerized form which is available to it in a second.

This it would do by establishing a National Coordinator for Health
Information Technology -- tasked with, among other things, "providing
information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of
care."

It should be scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by
statute to try to influence your doctor's decisions with respect to your
medical care.

But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a
government-coordinated database (which government can freely access)
will now contain all records of government-provided and private
psychiatric treatment -- including, in particular, the drugs which were
prescribed.

Remember last year's "NICS Improvement Act" -- otherwise known as the
Veterans Disarmament Act?  This law codified ATF's attempts to make you
a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist's finding
that you are a "danger" -- without a finding by any court.  Well,
roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly
stripped of their gun rights by the government.

But people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit
Disorder... or seniors with Alzheimer's... or police with Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder... or people who are now theoretically covered by the
new law... these people have, generally, not suffered the consequences
of its sanctions -- YET.  And the chief reason is that their records are
not easily available to the government in a central, easily retrievable,
computerized form.

The bailout bill would change all of that.  It would push increasingly
hard to force your private psychiatrist or government-sanctioned
psychiatrist to turn over your psychiatric records to a massive
database. This would be mandated immediately if your doctor does
business with the government.

This would supposedly save Medicare money in connection with medical
treatment.  And, the sponsors insist, they would work very hard to
protect your privacy.

But this turns the concept of "privacy" on its head.   The privacy which
is MOST important is privacy from the prying eyes of government -- not
privacy of government data against the prying eyes of others.  After
all, many government data bases have been hacked in recent years, with
mountains of information stolen.

So, once the government has access to these computerized psychiatric
records, the stage will be set for using that database to take away the
gun rights of those with Alzheimer's, those with ADD, and those with
PTSD.

ACTION:  Write your two senators.  Urge them to vote against the bailout
bill (HR 1) until it is stripped of provisions which would turn your
psychiatric records over to a central government-coordinated database
against your will -- without you getting your day in court.

You can go to the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the
pre-written e-mail message below.
Tonya

Mandark

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Re: so, Obama is president
« Reply #1199 on: February 11, 2009, 03:28:39 PM »
:duh