What are you playing?

[Stoney Mason]

narrative dissonance.

 

[Himu]

What! it is weird how the game actively makes you the best hero skyrim has ever had in ages or some shit, and yet NO ONE recognizes it despite the whole game being a giant ego stroke.

[Stoney Mason]

I could say the same about rpgs for the last 25 years. It's just suddenly in this gen everybody has decided to notice it and make a big deal about it.

Is anyone really playing Skyrim to take part in some awesome story? I don't think that's the draw.

[magus]

[Rufus]

What? I think that's a valid point, far removed from what I would consider pseudo-intellectual wankery. They could have avoided that nonsense entirely if they chose a different kind of specificity in their NPC barks. The arrow to the knee for instance. That works for a fresh PC in rags as well as it does for the omnipotent Dragonborn, master of all guilds. The ones that remark on a status they know is definitely going to change could have been relegated to starting areas where they don't call attention to the fact that they didn't allocate resources to make it more believable.
It's like an NPC calling to you from a pseudo-obstacle (like magically indestructible police tape or something) to come get them, upon which you can't just hop over, but have to go take a detour around it. Just don't call attention to your deficits if you're not going to address them properly.

[Himu]

I don't think it's as much a problem in other rpgs, because other rpgs don't have the game have so much to do, and even if they're heroes, the game usually ends when they save the world. But in Skyrim, npcs are like "I heard there's a dragonborn, I wonder if I'M dragon born?" when the person who has been killing all those fuckers is YOU. It's just weird that they don't acknowledge it when they acknowledge everything else ("Ah I know what you're doing thief" or whatever if you're in thieves guild, or if you're in the companions that you have a weird smell).

[MrAngryFace]

Finally getting to Spelunky. Vita and PC.

Saw your name on the Daily challenge leaderboard during Patrick's Spelunky stream (Giant Bomb) 

Such a sad score :*(

Eh I would say you are just starting

You know it- gonna train the FUCK UP

[Rufus]

Is anyone really playing Skyrim to take part in some awesome story? I don't think that's the draw.

No, they want to grow into an awesome, powerful mage-lord or whatever in a for video game standards fairly believable and alive world. An NPC not acknowledging the growth from prisoner to mage-lord sticks out.

And people notice because games have gotten better about these things. It's like the uncanny valley thing for faces. The closer you get to realism, the more the smaller flaws stand out.

[Stoney Mason]

Ultimately what you are talking about is some flavor dialogue. I'm sure you could fine some mods that actually change that. Now if you were to play Skyrim would you suddenly go wow. What a great game. Because of some trigger that knew I did that quest there he spits out another different random line of text that makes me feel special.

Does any of that in any real meaningful way make Skyrim a better game. Or solve any of the dozens of other narrative dissonance moments that exist in that game or any other game. I would argue not. But you are free to feel differently.

Skyrim and Elder scroll games have plenty of issues. My large point is that its a fairly minor complaint in the scheme of things. And these games are full of "narrarative dissonance". It's just where we choose to look at it or make a big deal about it.

[Himu]

What? I think that's a valid point, far removed from what I would consider pseudo-intellectual wankery. They could have avoided that nonsense entirely if they chose a different kind of specificity in their NPC barks. The arrow to the knee for instance. That works for a fresh PC in rags as well as it does for the omnipotent Dragonborn, master of all guilds. The ones that remark on a status they know is definitely going to change could have been relegated to starting areas where they don't call attention to the fact that they didn't allocate resources to make it more believable.
It's like an NPC calling to you from a pseudo-obstacle (like magically indestructible police tape or something) to come get them, upon which you can't just hop over, but have to go take a detour around it. Just don't call attention to your deficits if you're not going to address them properly.

This entire post is What the fuck are you talking about?

[Rufus]

In response to this, forgot to quote:

narrative dissonance.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah. I'm generally sick of the term narrative dissonance. I fully admit it. I generally hate when it crops up nowadays mainly because its so frequent and so arbitrary to me when we want to apply it.

[Rufus]

I thinks it's one of the more concrete terms among such wishy washy stuff as "gunplay" or the very broad and rarely qualified "level design". It perfectly encapsulates the issue and story heavy games are both numerous and prone to clashing with systems, so it doesn't surprise me that it's coming up a lot.

Skyrim and Elder scroll games have plenty of issues. My large point is that its a fairly minor complaint in the scheme of things. And these games are full of "narrarative dissonance". It's just where we choose to look at it or make a big deal about it.

Well, yeah, people tend towards easy/obvious examples to talk about larger issues.

[Stoney Mason]

Skyrim and Elder scroll games have plenty of issues. My large point is that its a fairly minor complaint in the scheme of things. And these games are full of "narrarative dissonance". It's just where we choose to look at it or make a big deal about it.

Well, yeah, people tend towards easy/obvious examples to talk about larger issues.

I think people are nitpicking in many cases. I would label the skyrim example more as a bug. Oh shit we didn't have time to write flavor dialogue to address the user when he completes quests. Fuck it. We'll do it in the next game.

The larger issue would be the story and main quest in general is complete trash in the game. But I think it's that way because most people either don't care or don't make a serious issue of it being better.  The appeal of skyrim is running around in an open world LOTR level up simulator. But I digress.

[Rufus]

As I said earlier, they could have circumvented it entirely, but instead chose to specifically incorporate a changing variable into those lines. Which is not to say that it's easy or entirely avoidable, but still. They didn't need to address your status at all, but they did, so when it changes it stands out that their dialogue doesn't change along with it.

[Stoney Mason]

My point is not that its not a bug or something overlooked or a creator of narrative dissonance. More that I bet I can name rpgs that Himu likes that have the exact same thing throughout history. That he is applying the criticism in an arbitrary manner because its more and more common to notice such things nowadays. But I've gone on too long about something that is ultimately pointless so I'll drop it.

[Himu]

A lot of the rpgs I like - story-wise - acknowledge the player. I like Skyrim but it's just a weird issue especially since it's voice acted. I don't see what's wrong with citing this criticism.

[Rufus]

How is it not narrative dissonance? It clashes with the game's AND whatever player narrative that's present. Unless you never leveld up and somehow always stayed a pauper, that is.
My argument isn't that it's a bug or overlooked (as I'm sure the devs know very well where the deficits lie), but an odd choice in this specific case and a definite case of narrative dissonance.

[Himu]

Look Stoney, most rpgs don't acknowledge you. That's the big diff. Skyrim DOES acknowledge you, even when you're in prisoners rags. So now you've got dragon bone armor on and you've killed a dragon in the middle of town and absorbed its power and some guard is like "maybe I'M a dragon born?!" It's just weird!

[CatsCatsCats]

Huh. Maybe there was an update or something, I had a random group of Khajit travellers telling me how amazing it was that I brought down a dragon they saw me kill out in the wilderness, haven't really run into the aforementioned dissonance yet

[StealthFan]

New Vegas acknowledged what I did

[Stoney Mason]

Huh. Maybe there was an update or something, I had a random group of Khajit travellers telling me how amazing it was that I brought down a dragon they saw me kill out in the wilderness, haven't really run into the aforementioned dissonance yet

It happens with some characters. Absolutely some characters acknowledge some of the deeds you do in the game. And some don't. Which is why I reference it more as a bug or a lack of somebody just writing a thousand lines of dialogue based on flagging completed quest markers in code versus willful somebody didn't even think of such a thing therefore nothing in the game is ever acknowledged. It happens in lots of rpgs. I know because I have a tendency to run around and talk to everybody after I complete quests no matter the RPG. Some games have less characters so its easier to do it and some games have more generic dialogue they just hand out to everybody. A rare few are somewhat diligent about going back and making sure everybody reflects properly on world events.

[Positive Touch]

New Vegas acknowledged what I did

it was a lot easier to do in that game cuz there wasnt shit to do

[StealthFan]

New Vegas acknowledged what I did

it was a lot easier to do in that game cuz there wasnt shit to do

it has more quests than Fallout 3

[Positive Touch]

and only a tiny fraction of skyrims

[StealthFan]

and only a tiny fraction of skyrims

Skyrim's are shit tho

[Positive Touch]

your face is shit tho

[StealthFan]

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Holy hell I love Rust. I never understood Day Z, but this game is really clicking with me. Something about how pathetically vulnerable you are makes establishing a reasonably secure base soooooo satisfying.

[The Sceneman]

Fallout NV wipes its ass with Skyrim

Man I been playing nothing but Terraria for the past week. Game is simply so boner. Although right now half of my game time is inventory management. I need to develop my badass castle with properly organised chests and stuff. Gonna build it as a plate above my current township, like Midgar in FF7. So I can look down upon those lowly NPCs in their crappy houses lol. Sweeeeet game. Just gearing up to fight the Wall of Flesh atm, my loadout is getting pretty boner

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Starbound, my dude. Starbound.

[CajoleJuice]

Starbound, my dude. Starbound.

and then get your character reset

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Yeah.

[StealthFan]

Expeditions: Conquistador

Pretty fun so far. I like some hex based strategy.

[chronovore]

Star Wars the Force Unleashed

So far it's really mediocre, I can see how some people might enjoy it but its all very very wonky. I don't know if I will bother finishing this if it remains this quality.
First level you just walk around as Darth Vader and send wookies flying, its so basic and boring. Then Vader steals a child and you are his apprentice on a mission. Same silly simple gameplay.

I enjoyed it quite a bit! I played through everything but the final difficulty level, and enjoyed it. I don't really like God of War or DMC, but the setting helped this click for me. Also, I really enjoyed the story, which is considered SW canon. After replaying it for several Achievements, I had enough and have never been tempted to play the sequel.

[archie4208]

Is Final Fantasy 9 as short as I think it is?  I'm only 13ish hours in and I just started disc 3.  Granted, I haven't done any side quests but it seems shorter than FF7 and 8 (or maybe I'm just not remembering those games as well as I thought).

I'm really enjoying it though.  Feels like a love letter to the 8/16 bit era.

[demi]

Probably lack of side questing and exploring. FF9 isnt exactly a hard game, either.

[magus]

Is Final Fantasy 9 as short as I think it is?  I'm only 13ish hours in and I just started disc 3.  Granted, I haven't done any side quests but it seems shorter than FF7 and 8 (or maybe I'm just not remembering those games as well as I thought).

I'm really enjoying it though.  Feels like a love letter to the 8/16 bit era.

there is a super secret weapon that can only be unlocked if you reach the final dungeon of the game in 12 hours but if i remember right it's a sort of impossible task that involve skipping FMV cutscenes by stopping and restarting the actual cd and running away from most random encounters

here's some speed running guide that talk about it in bigger details

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197338-final-fantasy-ix/faqs/9368
http://www.uffsite.net/ff9/excalibur2.php

[Great Rumbler]

Expeditions: Conquistador

Pretty fun so far. I like some hex based strategy.

I told you guys about Expeditions: Conquistador ages ago, but nobody listened!

[Positive Touch]

Is Final Fantasy 9 as short as I think it is?  I'm only 13ish hours in and I just started disc 3.  Granted, I haven't done any side quests but it seems shorter than FF7 and 8 (or maybe I'm just not remembering those games as well as I thought).

I'm really enjoying it though.  Feels like a love letter to the 8/16 bit era.

iirc it only takes like 50 hours to do everything, so yes it is shorter than 7 & 8

[StealthFan]

Maybe I'm missing something but, I don't think AC4 is all that great. The stealth in a game about killing someone silently is absolute garbage. Yeah, you can stick to a corner and whistle. But if I want to sneak in to that hay pil, its almost impossible.

I've checked, and recheck the buttons to see if I'm missing something, but no, you can only walk from hiding spot to hiding spot. And if you want to run, good luck if you come close to a wall or ledge you didn't see.

That's because it isn't great. Fucking cunts hyping it up.

[Bebpo]

The stealth in AC is not good, very simple and scripted.  But AC4 handles it better than AC3 for sure, which was just totally broken.


Finally finished up all the side content in AC4 tonight, now I can just marathon the last 1/3rd of the story.  The side-content got pretty tiring by the end.  There's just too much goddamn side-stuff in the game and it's all just the same 1 hour of stuff cut & paste over and over again.  Definitely going to take a LONG AC break (6 months+) after I finish this up before I play Freedom's Cry and maybe the AC3 Expansion that I never played.  Very burnt out on AC.  Even the cities are boring now.  But AC4's still a pretty good game.  I'm thoroughly enjoying the story.

[cool breeze]

going through Yakuza 3 and 4 since those are my last real "backlog" games for ps3 (and last gen consoles).  from watching the refreshers on the last two, I'm surprised by how vividly I remember Yakuza 2 and how I remember nothing from Yakuza 1 and I played both back to back in 2008.

barely played Yakuza 3 so far but I'm wondering if I should just skip it and go straight to Yakuza 4.  weren't people down on 3?

[archnemesis]

Not really. 3 is quite popular. It starts out slow, but that is one of its charms.

[Rufus]

Serious Sam 3
It's - eh. It's ugly and all the new enemies suck. The helicopters are extremely difficult to hit unless they hover in place (our you use the grenade laucher, since its projectiles fly faster than the rockets) and since you're looking up do kill them you're open to all manner of things sneaking up on you. The tentacled women that go invisible and squish you with telekinesis are just tedious to fight, since you have to wait for them to uncloak before you can hurt them, even if you spot the shimmering of their camouflage. The hell monkeys are only midly irritating in comparison and easy to fight (or even ignore), which makes them a weak addition. The new melee moves break the spiders, both big and small. Unless they're coming from all sides you can just melee them all.

Maybe I'm remembering the first one more fondly, but the level design wasn't always this weak, was it? It gets boring especially towards the end, with gigantic arena after gigantic arena and straight tube levels that get longer and longer. Doesn't help that a particular sequence (collect four orbs, activate ancient alien tech, fight warship) repeats.

Cardinal sin: Introducing new mechanics during the final boss fight. Oh there's a jet pack hidden somewhere in the boss arena that I need? Fancy that. I stumbled upon it only by chance. Oh there are piles of metal pipes that I need to stick in its back to stop it from regenerating? I would have never thought to do that, but thanks.
Meanwhile you're getting shot at from all sides with the gigantic boss both shooting at you and trying to trample you. What a fun learning environment.

[Positive Touch]

Serious Sam 3
It gets boring especially towards the end, with gigantic arena after gigantic arena and straight tube levels that get longer and longer.

that is exactly how the first one ended

[Rufus]

It's been to long.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Played Jak and Daxter for the first time ever tonight.

Feels so nice to play a 3d collect a thon platformer again.

[The Sceneman]

Banjo Tooie is the apex of the genre

A shame the franchise is dead because nimrods didn't "get" Nuts & Bolts

[Himu]

Play Jak 2 after, Lager. It kicks Jak and Daxter's ass.

[magus]

since we are talking about these sort of games... is donkey kong 64 worth a try? i know it's pretty infamous as far as collectathon go

[The Sceneman]

Croc: Legend of the Grobos

I was a huge fan of Gex 3D and Gex Deep Cover Gecko on the PS1 also

[demi]

since we are talking about these sort of games... is donkey kong 64 worth a try? i know it's pretty infamous as far as collectathon go

Yes, experience the collecting. Collect all the shit. DO IT

[Joe Molotov]

Jesus, Donkey Kong 64. Not only do you have to collect a million different things, but you have to be playing as the right damn monkey or it won't even let you pick things up.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Jak n Daxter 2 will be played as well, got the whole trilogy with PS+ 

Never played Banjo Tooie, I heard it was plagued by horrible fps, for me the apex of the genre is Banjo Kazooie

Rare's games really became the bad type of collect a thons later on.

[Rahxephon91]

Started Last Ranker. The fact that the game is real time, but not an action rpg is quite cool. You can't spam attacks since you have a limit with how many attacks you can do. So you do kind of have to pay attention to enemy tales and strike when it seems opportune.  It's a real shame this never came out here, because so far it seems like a pretty interesting jrpg.

[Rufus]

The temples and ruins and stuff were more interesting though, at least in my memory. From a geometry standpoint alone. Then again, it has been a long time so I could be making this up for all I know.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Banjo Tooie is the apex of the genre

A shame the franchise is dead because nimrods didn't "get" Nuts & Bolts

I get a stiffy just thinking about N&B. 

[Cerveza mas fina]

Already 50 power cells in, 26 left to complete the game.

Still got like 500 orbs too which in can trade in for 3/4 cells.

Game is good, must have died like 20 times at thr mountain pass boss, fucking double jump over lava all the time.

Real shame they dont make em like this anymore!

[demi]

They didnt make it like that in the sequel either. Lol.