Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Jacking Off Over Shitty GW2

[ManaByte]

Pretty sure no one is arguing Blizzard is doomed

WoW is certainly on the decline though, and another 5 level expansion/rehash won't fix that. Cata was rather forgettable to most players and I don't see that changing with MoP six months down the line

MoP is nothing like Cata.

How so

Content flow isn't as scattered as Cata where most of the new zones were just accessed via portals.

It really reminds me of Ruins of Kunark in EQ in terms of the tone and feel of Pandaria and the content.

[etiolate]

It's something like 3.5 million that Blizzard has lost since Cata. I don't think MoP is able to bring that back. There's always a surge with an expansion, but this time they're facing a current going against them. No matter what, I don't expect another huge loss in the next quarter. It will be 2-3 months after MoP if the trend continues.

People on Legendary think that MoP will attract new players to WoW, but I don't see how that is happening. The features they are adding will not attract people away from the home place of those features. Generally, WoW's adoption of other games features do not attract new players but keep feeding the established Blizzard fan that mostly buys Blizzard games. It's like a Cheesecake Factory menu in that it lists asian food, italian, american and new popular foods, but it's sort of a bland ill-fitting version of each dish. If you don't have a vested interest in it being there then it's just sort of a nice new item on the menu. In that way, it does succeed at satisfying the fans of WoW for who the features are just a nice addition to the back of the box, but I don't see why the people who really love those things would buy WoW to play them.

So the new subs are more likely the addicts coming back rather than new people. Those type of players are also the kind that quit again after a few months.

[Freyj]

Pretty sure no one is arguing Blizzard is doomed

WoW is certainly on the decline though, and another 5 level expansion/rehash won't fix that. Cata was rather forgettable to most players and I don't see that changing with MoP six months down the line

MoP is nothing like Cata.

How so

Content flow isn't as scattered as Cata where most of the new zones were just accessed via portals.

It really reminds me of Ruins of Kunark in EQ in terms of the tone and feel of Pandaria and the content.

Leveling content will keep people's interest for a few weeks tops. Most will hit 90, level a Panda to somewhere between 20-60 and that will be that. Within 2-3 months, you'll see numbers take an even bigger drop than they did with Cata. (And while zones didn't really flow well from one to another in Cata, the individual zones and their content was fine. The only zone I really had major issues with was Twilight Highlands, at least until the last 20-30%.)

At this point, I think I'd be more interested in seeing an expansion that didn't blow it's load in the leveling content. WoW is now a game where you spend 2 weeks out in the world and then the next 100 sitting in a major city waiting on queues or raid time. Repeat ad nauseam with new expansions. Yet so much of the development time (and hype) is spent on a world no one gives a shit about anymore. Then comes excuses about the lack of end game content and quotes like "we're focusing on quality over quantity".

[Phoenix Dark]

Pretty sure no one is arguing Blizzard is doomed

WoW is certainly on the decline though, and another 5 level expansion/rehash won't fix that. Cata was rather forgettable to most players and I don't see that changing with MoP six months down the line

MoP is nothing like Cata.

How so

Content flow isn't as scattered as Cata where most of the new zones were just accessed via portals.

It really reminds me of Ruins of Kunark in EQ in terms of the tone and feel of Pandaria and the content.

But how does that change the fact that it's still the same gameplay, reused environments, and once you leave the panda area you'll pretty much be doing the same old quests with your new character?

People will rush to lv90 and be stranded again after few months, just as with Cata. The MoP raids are pretty fun but I don't see the overall content satisfying people..

The Pokemon stuff+Challenge Mode will make this last longer than Cata imo, but not by much. And as etoilet said it's hard to see many new people jumping on board over any of that.

[archie4208]

WoW is on a permanent decline.  It'll be years before it "dies", but it will happen.  To be fair, most MMOs never die, they just slide into irrelevance.  Even Everquest 1 is still alive and kicking, albeit as a F2P game.

Gentlemen, say goodbye to the last big subscription based MMO.

[ManaByte]

Fuck, Ultima Online is still up and running and I think it even has more active players than Mythic's other two MMOs.

[ManaByte]

Pretty sure no one is arguing Blizzard is doomed

WoW is certainly on the decline though, and another 5 level expansion/rehash won't fix that. Cata was rather forgettable to most players and I don't see that changing with MoP six months down the line

MoP is nothing like Cata.

How so

Content flow isn't as scattered as Cata where most of the new zones were just accessed via portals.

It really reminds me of Ruins of Kunark in EQ in terms of the tone and feel of Pandaria and the content.

But how does that change the fact that it's still the same gameplay, reused environments, and once you leave the panda area you'll pretty much be doing the same old quests with your new character?

People will rush to lv90 and be stranded again after few months, just as with Cata. The MoP raids are pretty fun but I don't see the overall content satisfying people..

The Pokemon stuff+Challenge Mode will make this last longer than Cata imo, but not by much. And as etoilet said it's hard to see many new people jumping on board over any of that.

Never underestimate the internet ego stroking that leaderboards give.

[Phoenix Dark]

I can't argue with that. I'm already salivating over the challenge mode awards/leader board/etc

[Damian79]

DQX online mode.

http://www.twitch.tv/biggestinjapan/b/327146041

[etiolate]

The Secret World is having a free weekend right now BTW.

[Tasty]

wut

[Takao]

There is a Transformers MMO by the Runescape people. I dunno if I should sign into the beta since it might become crack. Then again I played Runescape for like 5 minutes in grade four and ain't some MMO fan.

[chronovore]

The Secret World is having a free weekend right now BTW.

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice screen "grab"...

[ManaByte]

WoW 5.0.4 (the pre-MoP patch) hits August 28th. Same day as GW2.

[Phoenix Dark]

 

Blizzard doesn't fuck around. Didn't they do something similar to Warhammer?

[ManaByte]

They released WOTLK two months after Warhammer.

5.0.4 is the same day as GW2.

MoP is a month later.

[etiolate]

They'll probably drop d3 patch 1.04 the same week.

[pilonv1]

Isn't the Diablo III patch the last week of August too?

[etiolate]

jinx

yeah blizz is going all out against gw2 launch

[Phoenix Dark]

[Phoenix Dark]

[ManaByte]

There's an in-game achievement hidden in that cinematic.

[Great Rumbler]

That cinematic looked like fan-fiction made real.

i.e. a standard Blizzard cutscene

[ManaByte]

That cinematic looked like fan-fiction made real. The stupid look they have when the human handed the Orc the spear was groan worthy. Also, that panda looks like that Samwise dude, which makes sense because to my understanding he has a big boner for Pandas.

He pretty much created the Pandaren.

And I wonder if the Pandaren would be seeing this backlash if they ended up in Burning Crusade. You know, back when people remembered there was a Warcraft III that had an expansion pack with a Panda unit.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea I gotta agree with Manabyte. I played WCIII for years, including the beta, and didn't hear any complaints about giant pandas; it was just accepted. I do remember a few people getting upset about Draeni/Space Goats around the time TBC came out, but overall it seemed like the reception was fine; that expansion was awesome, and ultimately the people who did complain about TBC weren't focusing on superficial shit like Draeni.

Basically no one would be upset if this had been in vanilla or TBC. Pandas+Pokemon pets has people upset. Meh, I liked the Panda area sue me. And while I say I won't touch the Pokemon shit, you all know I will. My complaints are more gameplay/content based

[etiolate]

[ManaByte]

Yea I gotta agree with Manabyte. I played WCIII for years, including the beta, and didn't hear any complaints about giant pandas; it was just accepted. I do remember a few people getting upset about Draeni/Space Goats around the time TBC came out, but overall it seemed like the reception was fine; that expansion was awesome, and ultimately the people who did complain about TBC weren't focusing on superficial shit like Draeni.

Basically no one would be upset if this had been in vanilla or TBC. Pandas+Pokemon pets has people upset. Meh, I liked the Panda area sue me. And while I say I won't touch the Pokemon shit, you all know I will. My complaints are more gameplay/content based

The Draenei complaints were from a lore perspective, not because they were space goats. Too bad that it's too long for a guild name because Space Goats Coast to Coast would be an awesome guild.

[Freyj]

The problem with Pandas, just like the problem with Worgen, was the need for them to look like god damn fursuits.

Not really a reason I won't be playing Mists.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea I gotta agree with Manabyte. I played WCIII for years, including the beta, and didn't hear any complaints about giant pandas; it was just accepted. I do remember a few people getting upset about Draeni/Space Goats around the time TBC came out, but overall it seemed like the reception was fine; that expansion was awesome, and ultimately the people who did complain about TBC weren't focusing on superficial shit like Draeni.

Basically no one would be upset if this had been in vanilla or TBC. Pandas+Pokemon pets has people upset. Meh, I liked the Panda area sue me. And while I say I won't touch the Pokemon shit, you all know I will. My complaints are more gameplay/content based

The Draenei complaints were from a lore perspective, not because they were space goats. Too bad that it's too long for a guild name because Space Goats Coast to Coast would be an awesome guild.

True but even lore fans seemed like their anger was increased by how "stupid" the race was (I'm not agreeing with them btw); I'd imagine a different design, even if it had the same impact on the lore, might have gone over better but who knows. Perhaps I'm underestimating the fury of lore fans lol


My guild moved to horde side last month, and I haven't joined a new one yet. I think I'll wait until closer to MoP to decide. I think I'm less interested in pure raiding now and might just join a guild I'm familiar with instead of chasing a prestige guild as I've done in the past. I doubt I have enough time to dedicate to pure raiding, basically. Plus if I get obsessed with GW2...yea

[Phoenix Dark]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41138934&postcount=10940

[Human Snorenado]

I found more MoP footage, can't embed but here's a link.

#t=147s

[Phoenix Dark]

Decided to join an ICC group at like 1AM last night lol, cleared the entire thing and got some achievements. I forgot how much I liked ICC. I didn't spent nearly as much time there as I did in Ulduar, where my guild basically grinded hard modes for like a year. By the time ToTC came out it was like a vacation lol; short, simple, sweet. Then ICC came out and it was grind time again, and while we spent tons of time there it never felt the same. Still a damn fine raid though.

I'm still bummed there wasn't a cg cinematic for the fall of Arthas. That in-game one is so fucking ugly  :'(

[Cerveza mas fina]

The worst thing about that cinematic is that WoW has none of that open world gritty feel left it had in Vanilla that this trailer suggests.

I'm so happy I played Vanilla when it launched, a truly magical experience. It was just streamlined enough compared to other mmo's to be actual fun, but open enough and not tweaked by focus groups to feel fresh too.

Every mmo since Vanilla has been shit, GW 2 won't change that. I can't wait for a next gen open world sandbox mmo.

I don't even think Blizzard will be the one to do it, cause everything they make nowadays is focus tested to death and by the numbers it seems.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I was following the game years before it came out as well  :'(

Remember watching vids like this and jizzing my pants.

[etiolate]

I'm not sure there is a big enough audience for a sandbox MMO to be anything but niche. There's Arche Age, but its hard to trust a korean MMO to actually be fun and not grindy.

GW2 is "theme park" with elements of presentation and doing things that is more open world sandboxy. Things come to you instead of you always seeking them out. Plus, there's the element of consequences from sandbox variety games. That might take off as a model. Just overall, GW2 feels like the new model to follow.

[Cerveza mas fina]

But these are not MMO's anymore just multiplayer rides.

There must still be a market for that real MMO feel, esp under the millions of lapsed MMO players.

[etiolate]

What? What do you mean real MMO feel?

[Cerveza mas fina]

Big world, no instancing or little of it. Being on a server matters no cross ealm shit.

[Phoenix Dark]

TBC was very open...

WOTLK wasn't super stream lined, but obviously you could tell they were heading in a new direction. My problem with WoW has little to do with the world - I still like it. It's the lack of new gameplay and repetitive content. I'd love to see a lot of the early level stuff completely remade, instead of just focusing on outdated storylines and narratives long surpassed by patches and expansions.

The PvE is still the best; I played a bit of Rift and while I liked the dungeons well enough, overall it just didn't blow me away. GW2 dungeons look questionable to put it lightly, and the absent holy trinity roles only make them even more chaotic and messy to me.

[etiolate]

you really should play some gw2 for real

[Cerveza mas fina]

I tried the beta weekend thanks to andrex but it failed to conbince me itd anything cool. I gave the key to a mate after an hour of listening to some lame storylines I didnt care about and run around small cramped enviroments where stuff magically happens.

It did look pretty though.

Pd i think they just cant change wow too much, unless they make wow 3.

[etiolate]

GW2's world is massive. It's the best mmo world since vanilla WoW. It's huge, full of stuff, and full of detail and life.

[Phoenix Dark]

I tried the beta weekend thanks to andrex but it failed to conbince me itd anything cool. I gave the key to a mate after an hour of listening to some lame storylines I didnt care about and run around small cramped enviroments where stuff magically happens.

It did look pretty though.

Pd i think they just cant change wow too much, unless they make wow 3.

Dunno. Cataclysm changed a lot of the early world environments, and introduced a few new early quest lines (especially in Westland iirc). I'd love to see a massive reworking of the early game, moreso than a couple quests here or there. The world rarely seems to reflect the accomplishments your character has made - everything just respawns, and recycles for the next player to do.

GW2 looks beautiful but I'm still hesitant on controls, PvE, and end game. I'll probably get it shortly after release though.

[ManaByte]

I tried the beta weekend thanks to andrex but it failed to conbince me itd anything cool. I gave the key to a mate after an hour of listening to some lame storylines I didnt care about and run around small cramped enviroments where stuff magically happens.

It did look pretty though.

Pd i think they just cant change wow too much, unless they make wow 3.

Dunno. Cataclysm changed a lot of the early world environments, and introduced a few new early quest lines (especially in Westland iirc). I'd love to see a massive reworking of the early game, moreso than a couple quests here or there. The world rarely seems to reflect the accomplishments your character has made - everything just respawns, and recycles for the next player to do.

GW2 looks beautiful but I'm still hesitant on controls, PvE, and end game. I'll probably get it shortly after release though.

Cata redid the entire 1-60 game. I haven't gone through and leveled a character 1-60 in the new quests as I'm saving that for my Monk, but everything from Vanilla was updated. Just about all of the "zones" from Vanilla were redone to make them flyable.

[etiolate]

They redid a lot of content that gets oudated and unplayed pretty quickly. For that reason, you probably won't see that done again since it's not cost effective.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'll have to look for that content. When I leveled my monk in the beta I quickly found myself doing the same stuff/quests in Westland, Redridge, etc

[etiolate]

Be prepared for a lot of memes.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Memes ingame?

Another thing Blizz has gone overboard with, from some humour here and there to mass producing "humour" until it loses all it's value.

[Phoenix Dark]

I liked some of the meme stuff in the Cata quests, like the Indiana Jones quests and the Jack Bauer guy lol. In fact the Indiana Jones guy was in vanilla iirc

[Cerveza mas fina]

I agree with you dude.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm starting to suspect a disappointing launch. Arena Net should have opened the beta for all for at least a month -two would have made more sense. Right now just the diehards are playing during the few weekends that it's available; there are plenty of mmo-curious and WoW players who would have downloaded that beta in a heart beat. What better press is there than allowing as many people as possible to play the game, talk to their friends, etc.

MoP was always going to outsell it obviously, but I really think GW2 could have set itself up as a serious presence right out the gate with an open beta with as many slots as humanly possible.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Or how about this PD, game is free to play for the first two weeks and then if you want to keep playing you have to buy it.

[etiolate]

ANet takes their betas as actual bug finding and fixing betas. Not as promotional demos. Yesterday they asked everyone to use the Black Lion Trading Post, currency exchanges and sPVP. They put a cosmetic hat for free on the commerce page for everyone to test buying something off the commerce page at once. They also started sending out pre-purchase bonuses through their in-game mail to test that for launch. In the previous stress test they asked everyone to go to Divinity's Reach and then later to all go to Queensdale to see if it would crash the servers. They ran live updates and patches in the four hour stress tests. They put up their authentication system before yesterday's test to have people try it out. This overloaded their system, but after a few minutes it worked for me. They just don't see beta as anything other than a beta for testing.

You know, so they don't launch a feature-less, unfinished game that nobody can log in to for the first week. *cough*

[Cerveza mas fina]

Also because their games don't get bought by half the planet.

All the combined expansions and GW1 sold just over half what D3 did, I'm not even talking WoW plus expansions.

Just to put things in perspective.

[etiolate]

GW1 franchise sold 7 million last I heard and D3 sold 10 million last I heard.

Though neither is really relevant to anything.

If you are curious about GW2 launch sales, people have been reading into the ArenaNet prepurchases directly from their website. They've been assuming that since the sales number people are getting keeps increasing over time, that subtracting the earliest sales code number from the latest sales code number, that GW2 has sold over a million digital copies from ANet's online store. This is all internet detective work with no confirmation from anyone official.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Well its relevant to servers crashing if you sell 10 million copies in 3 months, or 7 million in 10 years.

[Phoenix Dark]

Everyone uses betas to find and fix bugs. Having more people help is a good thing - for peomotion/hype and the quality of the game

[etiolate]

I don't think you release the same beta for promotion as you would for testing. The last BWE3 wasn't fully open, but there were tons of beta key giveaways for it. They gave away thousands of keys.

But the stress test just wouldn't be good for promos. They are specifically "fudged" builds that they let people into and then try to fix before the stress test ends. If you let a wide, unfiltered amount of people experience that they're going to assume the worst.

Not that I'm against a wide open beta for people to try the game, but that requires people spending time running that beta instead of working on finishing the game. Plus, it creates burnout to let people play characters for a long time when those characters are going to be deleted. People have commented on how SWTOR's long beta began to burn people out and kill off the hype. In that manner, it can be harmful. I'm all for more people trying the game though. All the hype and PR is based off of word of mouth and play experience.

[ManaByte]

Well its relevant to servers crashing if you sell 10 million copies in 3 months, or 7 million in 10 years.

Makes you wonder how many copies will have sold after 10 years in comparison to GW.

[Phoenix Dark]

The MoP beta went on for ages, as do other WoW ones...had no negative impact on the game. SWTOR lost hype due to it being a meh game, not because people played the beta too much.

A prolonged beta would not hurt GW2, in fact it would have greatly benefited the game. Consider that WoW has been bleeding subs all year, and has become quite stagnant over the summer especially. What better time to offer a larger beta for a couple months? I understand the idea of testing specific areas, and this could have been doing back in May and continued today - just with more people playing. Instead they put their product in a small box and fostered a small community of people who were already convinced enough to spend $60 early.

It's too late now. I'm not saying GW2 is doomed or fucked. I'm saying GW2 had the perfect shot to make a large statement with an open beta aimed at all types of players - including a shit ton of mmo folks who don't play WoW anymore - at least not until MoP hits.

Meanwhile Blizzard is releasing the new patch on the very day GW2 drops, and MoP launches less than a month later. That tells me they're serious about this. I don't believe Arena Net is - and they certainly have more to lose.