Author Topic: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "console"  (Read 16993 times)

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Himu

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You're right. I still haven't played Galaxy.
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twerd

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2009, 11:20:07 AM »
i concede that emcee is insane, but i do agree with him that wii's lineup and overall stature in videogames is much greater than the gc. insert stoopid list warz here, but all of you have ignored wii's strong wiiware/vc lineup as well.
wut

Himu

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We'll see. I like 3d Mario, but I've never really loved it.
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Flannel Boy

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And if I want all the desert island creatures to point and laugh, I'd choose the Wii.
Fail.
You can't hang yourself with a wiimote.

Don Flamenco

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2009, 11:29:53 AM »
My mind was too small to comprehend the concept of moving in a 3D space when Mario 64 came out, so I could never play it.  I can appreciate Mario Galaxy, but both times I've started it, I've gotten bored of it after a couple hours.  Same goes for Zelda games.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #125 on: November 01, 2009, 11:30:33 AM »
there's a good original (i.e. not emulated) game on wii vc? looked like a wasteland to me!

duc

tiesto

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I was hoping Wii would capture the RPG, 2D, and niche game market, due to the lower development costs and sales situation - but neither really came to fruition. There have been some exceptions (Little King Story, Muramasa), but it's still completely lacking in that regard. Gamecube had few RPGs but what was there was good - Baten Kaitos/Origins, Skies of Arcadia, Symphonia...
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Van Cruncheon

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #127 on: November 01, 2009, 11:33:18 AM »
We'll see. I like 3d Mario, but I've never really loved it.

I've got one better for you.  I thought Mario 64 was boring shit, but I fucking looooved Galaxy.

same.
duc

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Super Mario Galaxy = Mario Sunshine bonus levels but with variety in themes.  At this time, I would put it above Mario 64 as well.

Super Mario Galaxy will probably end up being the game of the generation, unless part 2 manages to top it.  That makes the Wii situation even worse - it isn't that Nintendo is no longer capable of making AAA quality games, it is that they no longer choose to.  Especially a game like Punch Out which is essentially a Flash game packaged for $50.

Also, VC titles don't count.  Even if they would, I'd hardly attribute them as a net positive, given how costly a lot of them are, for games that you could find in a pawn shop for a dollar but go for $5 on the VC.
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Jansen

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i'll never forget how excited i was for the wii when imagining how awesome it would be using waggle to play a sword based game.

just look how that tuned out...

Human Snorenado

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You can understand everything you need to know about Nintendo this gen by remembering that at last year's E3, their offering for "hardcore gamers" was a new Animal Crossing.
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Great Rumbler

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All consoles suck anyway, so I don't know why you guys are getting so excited. PC gaming is where all the real gamers, and games, are. :drake
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archie4208

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All consoles suck anyway, so I don't know why you guys are getting so excited. PC gaming is where all the real gamers, and games, are. :drake

Superior versions of every multiplatform game.  Games that would make your average consolite's head spin.  One click access to every game in your library.  Free mods.  Dedicated servers (F U MW2). 

:bow PC gaming :bow2

Himu

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2009, 12:23:26 PM »
We'll see. I like 3d Mario, but I've never really loved it.

I've got one better for you.  I thought Mario 64 was boring shit, but I fucking looooved Galaxy.

I also think Mario 64 is boring shit. I thought Sunshine was better.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2009, 12:44:27 PM »
The Wii is, by far, Nintendo's worst console for gamers ever. I think I even enjoyed the Virtual Boy more than I have enjoyed the Wii.
PSP

treythemovie

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #135 on: November 01, 2009, 12:53:15 PM »
i concede that emcee is insane, but i do agree with him that wii's lineup and overall stature in videogames is much greater than the gc. insert stoopid list warz here, but all of you have ignored wii's strong wiiware/vc lineup as well.

If Virtual Console counts then so does the entire GB/GBA library for the cube due to the gameboy player. So bring it, the Wii, wiiware and its horribly overpriced emulated titles vs the combined might of the Gamecube/Gameboy/GBA.  ::)

And like I said to emcee, go ahead and do your list warz. I actually want to see what utterly ridiculous titles you include to justify the Wii's lineup.


The Fake Shemp

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #136 on: November 01, 2009, 12:53:58 PM »
DEADLY CREATUREZ!!1

:lol
PSP

cool breeze

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #137 on: November 01, 2009, 01:02:11 PM »
there's a good original (i.e. not emulated) game on wii vc? looked like a wasteland to me!



Castlevania Rebirth is awesome, but it's not out in America yet.  Contra Rebirth is supposed to be great too.

Um, Lit is alright but it's basically a flash game.  Lost Winds games are ok, too short and easy.  There is the Cave Story port coming! yeah, Wiiware is kinda shit.

We'll see. I like 3d Mario, but I've never really loved it.

I've got one better for you.  I thought Mario 64 was boring shit, but I fucking looooved Galaxy.

I also think Mario 64 is boring shit. I thought Sunshine was better.

I thought Mario 64 was awesome, Sunshine was not very good, and Galaxy is incredibly amazing awesome one of my favorite games ever etc etc
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 01:04:01 PM by swaggaz »

Flannel Boy

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Mario 64 is boring?  ???

Himu

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Yes. Shit platforming, aside from a few later levels. Have to go to the same levels 9999 times to get stars and unlike Sunshine, it doesn't change the levels up to make it not repetitive. Single-handedly killed REAL platformers.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #140 on: November 01, 2009, 01:18:53 PM »
Super Mario 64 was awesome. Himuro annihilated.
PSP

I'm pretty damn sure the Wii has been handily outselling the competition for years now.  So if you want to ask what "most people" give a damn about, I suggest you step outside of your geek bubble and take a perception check of the world around you. 

You wanna know what "most people" give a damn about? Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Wii Play and maybe Mario Kart Wii. Everything else on the Wii? They don't give a shit.
野球

Himu

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I'm not saying it was terrible. It was certainly a good game. But as a platformer, it is weak. I've never really been a 3d platformer guy, Mario 64 impressed me graphically when it came out, but gameplay wise I've always thought it was average, even when I replayed it on ds years back. I can count on one hand, the number of 3d platformers I enjoyed for their platforming.
IYKYK

cool breeze

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I really don't understand how you can say Mario 64 killed platformers when it was released during the time when 3D platformer conventions were just starting up.  There were still a bunch of different styles of 3D platformers being made, from Tomb Raider to Crash Bandicoot to 2D games in 3D like Klonoa.  It's like saying Virtua Fighter killed REAL fighting games.

Himu

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #144 on: November 01, 2009, 01:27:24 PM »
Mario 64 killed platformers because it single-handedly turned them from solely being about precision, jumping and timing to collectathons with a little jumping and the occasional precise timing. Look at today's platformers and you can see Mario 64's influence.

Jumping Flash was the better 3d platformer.

:piss Mario 64 :piss2

I enjoyed the Crash series more than Mario 64. Crash 2 > Mario 64
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 01:28:58 PM by Himuro »
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Third

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Wii is the worst console I've ever bought. It's even hard to find a game worth downloading. Such a horrible library.

bork

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #146 on: November 01, 2009, 01:28:47 PM »
Wow, I actually agree with Himuro.  I didn't like Mario 64, either.  I thought Jumping Flash! was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

Anyway, get this-- I PLAYED THE WII LAST NIGHT!   :o

Went to my brother's place for Halloween, and we played 4P Bomberman '94, Tetris Party, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and Bubble Bobble Plus on my J-Wii with my wife and his girlfriend.

...The most time was spent on Bomberman, which is a Turbographx-16 game.  TG-16 >>>> Wii.  :smug
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bork

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #147 on: November 01, 2009, 01:31:00 PM »
Wii is the worst console I've ever bought. It's even hard to find a game worth downloading. Such horrible games.

I like:

-Punch-Out!!
-Smash Bros.
-Mario Kart
-Galaxy
-Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom
-RE4 Wii Edition
-RE Darkside Chronicles
-Ghost Squad
-Muramasa
-Sengoku Basara Heroes
-Contra ReBirth
-Castlevania ReBirth

The best.
ど助平

cool breeze

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Jumping Flash is awesome.  I want it brought back.

and I played Castlevania Rebirth on my Wii yesterday. Last time I played it was a month or two ago? It was like two or three weeks after Wii Sports Resort came out.  I haven't gotten to the point where I keep it in the closet, but I do keep it unplugged and take the batteries out of the controller.

bork

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #149 on: November 01, 2009, 01:33:32 PM »
Jumping Flash! and Jumping Flash! 2 were fantastic games.  The third game, Rabbit Mon Dieu, was not made by the same developer, and sucked balls.   :'(  Fortunately, Exact did make Ghost In The Shell, which I've always kind of looked at as the unofficial third JF! game. 
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Third

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #150 on: November 01, 2009, 01:36:16 PM »

I like:

-Punch-Out!!
-Smash Bros.
-Mario Kart
-Galaxy
-Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom
-RE4 Wii Edition
-RE Darkside Chronicles
-Ghost Squad
-Muramasa
-Sengoku Basara Heroes
-Contra ReBirth
-Castlevania ReBirth

The best.

Galaxy is an excellent game. Definitely one of the top 3 best games of this generation. And the Boom Blox games are also nice.
But the rest of the Wii games* are decent to mediocre/bad. I really can't play that shit.

*excluding last-gen ports.

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Jumping Flash! Really?

Beezy

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #152 on: November 01, 2009, 01:56:23 PM »
i concede that emcee is insane, but i do agree with him that wii's lineup and overall stature in videogames is much greater than the gc. insert stoopid list warz here, but all of you have ignored wii's strong wiiware/vc lineup as well.

Wiiware games ok, but you can't bring old roms into this.

I thought it was just EmCee that thought Wii has a better lineup, but now I see that twerd and Oblivion do too. A list war might be necessary. :punch
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 01:59:37 PM by Beezy »

Himu

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #153 on: November 01, 2009, 01:57:38 PM »
The Wii is, by far, Nintendo's worst console for gamers ever. I think I even enjoyed the Virtual Boy more than I have enjoyed the Wii.

Willco brings the REAL TALK :punch :punch

Quote from: Himuro
Yes. Shit platforming, aside from a few later levels. Have to go to the same levels 9999 times to get stars and unlike Sunshine, it doesn't change the levels up to make it not repetitive. Single-handedly killed REAL platformers.

What are you smoking, man? That's like saying BALDUR'S GATE 2 was SHIT and it destroyed RPGs. Come on man that is sooooooooooo bullshit.

No it isn't. Because BG2 is awesome, whereas Mario 64 is boring. I don't mind Virtua Fighter's influence spreading to other fighting games, because I've always hearted VF. I don't mind BG2's influence spreading to other rpgs, because it is the deepest rpg ever and perhaps the best.

However, Mario 64 represents everything I dislike about 3d platforming and it is the main mascot for the genre as well.

So why exactly should I like Mario 64's influence if I don't like 3d platformers or Mario 64, period? I can respect its influence, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 01:59:42 PM by Himuro »
IYKYK

Jansen

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jumping flash sucked

Oblivion

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Mario 64 was awesome.

Sunshine was a good game, but kinda disappointing for a Mario game. A lot of people give it shit for being evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but my problems were simply near non-existent variety of levels, some really odd game design decisions (such as getting coins in a specific order as opposed to getting them in any order) and being home to some of the worst cutscenes known to man.

Super Mario Galaxy however was fucking amazing.

Galaxy > Mario 64 > Sunshine

Himu

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I still don't understand after all these years, how Sunshine is disappointing "as a Mario game" while 64 is lauded as awesome. It's a dissonance in my head. I mean, when Mario 64 came out in 96, I still didn't have a Saturn, PSX, or 64 at the time and I was still weaned on 2d gaming. As a child, my favorite genre was always platformers.

So when I played Mario 64, I really wondered what the big deal was.

I think I'll play Yoshi's Island or Mario World instead, thanks.
IYKYK

BobFromPikeCreek

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Mario 64 is still amazing and has aged very well. The platforming is still comfortable and has that amazing acrobatic feel to it that few other 3D platformers can even touch.
zzzzz

tiesto

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Super Mario Galaxy = Mario Sunshine bonus levels but with variety in themes.  At this time, I would put it above Mario 64 as well.

Super Mario Galaxy will probably end up being the game of the generation, unless part 2 manages to top it.  That makes the Wii situation even worse - it isn't that Nintendo is no longer capable of making AAA quality games, it is that they no longer choose to.  Especially a game like Punch Out which is essentially a Flash game packaged for $50.

Also, VC titles don't count.  Even if they would, I'd hardly attribute them as a net positive, given how costly a lot of them are, for games that you could find in a pawn shop for a dollar but go for $5 on the VC.

But at the same time, there are some pretty good deals on VC - Alien Soldier in particular. Something like Ice Climbers for $5 is distinguished mentally-challenged tho.
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Akala

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how the fuck are people hating on jumping flash! in here?  :maf

mario 64 sucked. both jumping flash! and crash bandicoot were better games, not that that's saying much. I would kill for a new jumping flash, even a damn PSN game or something.

mario galaxy was fantastic to the point of justifying a wii purchase IMO. it does not justify any continued support of the bastards though.

Beezy

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Add me to the don't care for Mario 64 club. Tried it later on in N64s life and again for the DS. Didn't see what the big deal was either time.

Mario Galaxy was better, but I didn't care for it that much either. Maybe 3D platformers just aren't for me.

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Third

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I've never played Jumping Flash. Bought it a few weeks ago off of PSN, but never played it.
Did the game age well? Will the graphics kill me?

Great Rumbler

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Mario 64 hate is lol
dog

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Super Mario Sunshine sucked.  It is like Nintendo decided literally halfway through the game to say "fuck it" and just jam the levels with blue coins, excellent (but detail sparse) bonus levels, and called it a day.  The proof is there with the hotel level, which was Sonic Adventure / Sonic 360 & PS3 bad in terms of overall bugginess.  Not to mention several points in a few levels where the camera was unworkable.  The best you had to go off was memory, the "?" for enemies, and luck.  The blue coins made the game utterly tedious.  It needed another year in the oven.

Super Mario 64 was not boring at all.  Maybe the first couple of levels, yeah, but the game was not boring overall.  Preferences I suppose.  I liked the DS version and got all the stars for it.  Great update/port.

Never played Jumping Flash.  I was a hardcore Nintard up until the Dreamcast.
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Jansen

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[youtube=560,345]S0IomLvEmiE[/youtube]

better than mario 64? lol, no

guess youtube is jacked up atm

Great Rumbler

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The bonus levels in Sunshine were really cool and felt, in retrospect, like a prototype for Galaxy. The other levels just weren't that great and relied too much on the pointless gimmicks rather than just letting you play the game and have fun.
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Beezy

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Mario 64 hate is lol
Not liking or caring for a game doesn't necessarily mean that you hate it.

archie4208

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Jumping Flash was great for its time, but I don't think it has aged that well.  I would like to see an updated PSN version or something, though.

Great Rumbler

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Mario 64 hate is lol
Not liking or caring for a game doesn't necessarily mean that you hate it.

There are people in this thread actively hating on it.
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Oblivion

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #170 on: November 01, 2009, 03:29:25 PM »
i concede that emcee is insane, but i do agree with him that wii's lineup and overall stature in videogames is much greater than the gc. insert stoopid list warz here, but all of you have ignored wii's strong wiiware/vc lineup as well.

Wiiware games ok, but you can't bring old roms into this.

I thought it was just EmCee that thought Wii has a better lineup, but now I see that twerd and Oblivion do too. A list war might be necessary. :punch

For me, I care more about systems that have games that leave a lasting impression. I'd take Mario Galaxy over the entirety of the GC lineup, aside from probably Smash Bros. Melee and RE4.

I distinguish Nintendo systems, by Nintendo games. If I wanted third party games, well that's what a 360 is for.

I still don't understand after all these years, how Sunshine is disappointing "as a Mario game" while 64 is lauded as awesome. It's a dissonance in my head. I mean, when Mario 64 came out in 96, I still didn't have a Saturn, PSX, or 64 at the time and I was still weaned on 2d gaming. As a child, my favorite genre was always platformers.

So when I played Mario 64, I really wondered what the big deal was.

I think I'll play Yoshi's Island or Mario World instead, thanks.

Sunshine's mechanics were fine, but like I said, there wasn't much level variety. The tropical theme got old after a while. You say you haven't played Galaxy, but a good portion of the praise that it gets is because it goes back to the crazy, surreal environments like in Mario 64 (and pretty much every other Mario game).

Himu

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I didn't realize that what makes a great Mario game the setting. I've never really cared, or found the settings to be "surreal" like you describe. To me it's, plains level, fire level, ice level, water level. Nothing really surreal about it. When it comes to platformers I like to look at the mechanics and gameplay rather than superficial stuff like setting. I mean, that's such a dumb argument. I can see how it's more appealing from an aesthetic viewpoint, but that doesn't equate to good gameplay.

Going from Yoshi's Island to Mario 64 is a pretty bad transition. I really do not understand how Mario 64 is considered a good Mario game while Sunshine isn't, when the better parts of Sunshine were more rewarding to me than the bulk of Mario 64.

Go get that star in this 10 second level. ZZZ.

That said, it's not a bad game, I like the later levels quite a bit. But I still wonder, ever since it came out, what the big deal is.
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BobFromPikeCreek

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I'm not going to argue about 13 year old game, but I just want all you Mario 64 haters to know you're crazy.
zzzzz

Olivia Wilde Homo

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I'm not going to lie, I think Yoshi's Island is pretty overrated.  The levels from the midpoint of the game on felt blurred together.  Maybe it was the art style but the game bored the hell out of me.  The mini bosses were creative as well as some of the earlier level themes but the rest made me feel tired more than anything.  Not to mention some of the levels took forever to complete, chiefly consisting of meandering level designs.  I'll admit that the game was better than the series it was trying to aim at (DKC) but it is probably the most overrated Mario in the series.  Although it might be topped by NSMB, depending on how people look back on it a few years from now.

Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, and Super Mario Galaxy worked great because the levels (or star missions) were short and exciting.  If you've ignored the surreal stuff, that is too bad.  Although these days, the surreal element doesn't hold up in Mario 64 but in 1996-1997, it was fucking awesome.  Galaxy is still great in this regard and the little fanservice touches here and there is one of the few instances in gaming history where it added something to the game.  Although if you're not a Mariofag, you'll probably miss them.

I'd also like to know the rewarding parts of Sunshine.  Only thing I can think of is the town atmosphere and interacting with NPCs inside the level but that was easily countered by the half assed Disney inspired FLUDD.  That and the final boss fight was the most anti-climactic ever.  Seriously, it is a game that Nintendo most likely said "fuck it" or got pressure from above to push it out before Fall 2002.  Neither of which would surprise me much.
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Himu

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2009, 05:59:10 PM »
I'm of the opinion Super Mario Bros. 3 is the most overrated traditional Mario game, after Mario 64. I don't think many people consider Yoshi's Island that great outside of the internet. In fact, when it came out, most people skipped on it to my knowledge, although it DID come out at the end of SNES' life cycle. But that didn't stop a whole slew of my friends being introduced to their first rpg either: Super Mario RPG. I think of the later SNES years, more people played Mario RPG than Yoshi's Island, but this could be purely anecdotal.

My main issue with Mario games is that they tend to have too many levels, most of which are filler and too short. This complaint has never been changed even into adulthood and into the 3d Mario games. This is why YI's the best Mario in my opinion, the platforming, physics and controls aside: it is by far the most polished. It doesn't need to have 10000 levels like Mario World or Mario 3. Every level is unique and doesn't feel regurgitated. They're also not extremely short and allow players many options: you don't HAVE to get every damn ? cloud or stars in YI, but it certainly adds to the game's appeal. Whereas in every Mario since, you need to get x amount of stars to continue, which is bullshit.

The rewarding sections of Sunshine for me were the warp levels. I had more fun with those warp levels the entirety of Mario 64. If Galaxy is nothing bu Sunshine warp levels, and of that quality the entire game without having 9999999 levels just for the sake of padding game length like every Mario game ever, I'll be willing to concede it's on par with or better than YI, but that's a big "if".

Aside from that, I also got great enjoyment from Sunshine's waterpack. Gaining new abilities which would allow to reach new heights, new areas, and achieve new secrets was really appealing. Getting new nozzles gave it a sort of Metroid like feel to the hub world almost, and I liked that.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 06:03:48 PM by Himuro »
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Himu

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2009, 06:05:02 PM »
I'm not going to argue about 13 year old game, but I just want all you Mario 64 haters to know you're crazy.

To prove I don't hate Mario 64, I am going to post my favorite level:

[youtube=560,345]IiQ86646OA8[/youtube]

If the entire game were like this I'd like it more.

That's real platforming, friends. Not that other bullshit.
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Beezy

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #176 on: November 01, 2009, 06:05:44 PM »
Whereas in every Mario since, you need to get x amount of stars to continue, which is bullshit.
Also one of my biggest complaints.

I only got like 40+ stars in Galaxy before I stopped, but it does have a lot of levels like Sunshine's warp levels.

Himu

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Re: Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "cons
« Reply #177 on: November 01, 2009, 06:10:01 PM »
Do you need to do the same level 9999 times in order to get all the stars in Galaxy?

::)

What great game design. Doing the same level repeatedly with no differences between them sure is fun.
IYKYK

Beezy

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It's been a while so I don't remember too well, but I think they would send you to a different part of the level (or give you an item that let you) or change it up a little. It's not like Mario 64.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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The point of getting multiple stars in the same level is so you can explore the level fully.  Each star often requires you to go through different parts of the level, taking advantage of whatever obstacle was designed.  Seems pointless to design a big level and only require you to explore < 5% of it.

Mario Galaxy takes this a lot further.  Sometimes parts of the levels are completely blocked off so you can focus on one part of the level to get the star.  Again, Galaxy is essentially the bonus Sunshine levels but with varieties in themes, altered gravities to make it seem like Mario's in space, and a touch of unnecessary waggle BS.  It takes the very best from the past Mario games but developed to take advantage of modern (well, as modern as you can get with the Wii :teehee ) hardware capabilities.

Besides, I'm confused.  You complain about having to go through the same levels and doing the same things over and over again for stars but never is this practice more emphasized than Mario Sunshine, which you say is more rewarding than Mario 64.  Mario Sunshine was probably the most repetitive collect-a-thon out there from a major developer, except maybe Donkey Kong 64.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 06:39:13 PM by T EXP »
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