Splinter Cell Conviction DEMO (lol dev diaries)

[cool breeze]

The stealth element detection of all these games is wonky. I honestly preferred the cones of detection and the punctuation symbols from the old metal gear games because while it wasn't exactly immersive, it at least clearly showed the possible range of detection from your enemies. Now it never feels 100% right in any game because its hard to figure out what they can and can't detect.

I think Batman AA did it well.  You had to have your bat-goggles on, but you could see the heartbeat of enemies and things like that.  It was fun to make enemies fear you and start getting all dense and looking around, as when they realize that others around them were dropping, they get really jumpy.

[Stoney Mason]

The stealth element detection of all these games is wonky. I honestly preferred the cones of detection and the punctuation symbols from the old metal gear games because while it wasn't exactly immersive, it at least clearly showed the possible range of detection from your enemies. Now it never feels 100% right in any game because its hard to figure out what they can and can't detect.

I think Batman AA did it well.  You had to have your bat-goggles on, but you could see the heartbeat of enemies and things like that.  It was fun to make enemies fear you and start getting all dense and looking around, as when they realize that others around them were dropping, they get really jumpy.

Batman did it well but it also did it mainly by sort of making their detection abilities relatively minor at least at the default difficulty level. (Which I'm fine with). The problem is when you play games like Splinter Cell or Metal Gear that are going for more realistic detection is where it gets weird. Even in this demo there were cases where people would spot me that I was confused by. Same as with Metal Gear. It's not game breaking or anything but I wish games like this would do a better job of communication what is and what isn't detectable.

[Bebpo]

How is MGS not scripted?  You have to go through the same cutscenes and boss fights as everyone else. 

I'm not talking about the story experience, I'm talking purely gameplay.

You are right that in MGS you are required to stealth less than SC.  MGS doesn't punish you from blowing stuff up and killing guys (well besides getting a lower ranking at the end of the game).  MGS hardly punishes you for anything.  Instead the game gives you the option to play however you like.  If you want you can stealth through the whole game with no alerts.  You can avoid even coming into contact with the majority of the enemies the entire game.  Otoh, if you do get detected you can play it like a shooter and kill everyone.  For people who like stealth and don't want to be seen or fight, MGS is very satisfying.  Plus there's so much crazy stuff you can do in MGS like blowing up food supply buildings with C4 which causes all the guards to get really hungry and be more easily distracted by food sources.  Or capturing snakes and throwing them at guards to scare them away.  Or creating decoy diversions.  Or camouflaging oneself and crawling through the grass unnoticed.  etc...

[Stoney Mason]

How is MGS not scripted?  You have to go through the same cutscenes and boss fights as everyone else. 

I'm not talking about the story experience, I'm talking purely gameplay.

You are right that in MGS you are required to stealth less than SC.  MGS doesn't punish you from blowing stuff up and killing guys (well besides getting a lower ranking at the end of the game).  MGS hardly punishes you for anything.  Instead the game gives you the option to play however you like.  If you want you can stealth through the whole game with no alerts.  You can avoid even coming into contact with the majority of the enemies the entire game.  Otoh, if you do get detected you can play it like a shooter and kill everyone.  For people who like stealth and don't want to be seen or fight, MGS is very satisfying.  Plus there's so much crazy stuff you can do in MGS like blowing up food supply buildings with C4 which causes all the guards to get really hungry and be more easily distracted by food sources.  Or capturing snakes and throwing them at guards to scare them away.  Or creating decoy diversions.  Or camouflaging oneself and crawling through the grass unnoticed.  etc...

I would agree with this. While I never especially played Metal Gear in an overly stealthy manner, there are multiple ways to play the game if a person was so inclined.

[demi]

Why is there ANY discussion? Splinter Cell has always been king. Period end of story

[dark1x]

How is MGS not scripted?  You have to go through the same cutscenes and boss fights as everyone else. 

I'm not talking about the story experience, I'm talking purely gameplay.

You are right that in MGS you are required to stealth less than SC.  MGS doesn't punish you from blowing stuff up and killing guys (well besides getting a lower ranking at the end of the game).  MGS hardly punishes you for anything.  Instead the game gives you the option to play however you like.  If you want you can stealth through the whole game with no alerts.  You can avoid even coming into contact with the majority of the enemies the entire game.  Otoh, if you do get detected you can play it like a shooter and kill everyone.  For people who like stealth and don't want to be seen or fight, MGS is very satisfying.  Plus there's so much crazy stuff you can do in MGS like blowing up food supply buildings with C4 which causes all the guards to get really hungry and be more easily distracted by food sources.  Or capturing snakes and throwing them at guards to scare them away.  Or creating decoy diversions.  Or camouflaging oneself and crawling through the grass unnoticed.  etc...

Precisely.  MGS is an open end linear game.  That is, you follow a basic, linear path through the game but are given plenty of freedom within each isolated segment.  This is actually my favorite type of experience, to be honest.

Crysis is like MGS on a much larger scale, basically.  The game itself is definitely a linear experience, but each level is open ended and allows you to tackle every situation differently.  That's one of the reasons I loved it so much.

Splinter Cell, however, offers no such freedom and forces you down a tube.  On the flipside, some games go too far and open up TOO MUCH of the game (Assassins Creed is a good example of this).  As Groove noted above, I'd love to see a mix of the two.

Well, if we're picking favorite stealth series then Thief is my personal favorite.

Yep.  Thief II is still my favorite stealth game.  It has been eclipsed on a technical level, but it delivered such an incredible experience over 10 years ago and other games just can't seem to match it.  You had a perfect balance between linearity and open ended gameplay.  Most stealth games go too far in one direction rather than finding the perfect median.

[demi]

So:

Metal Gear - sucks
Crysis - sucks

Splinter Cell - king


That about sums it up

[Smooth Groove]

If we're talking about oldies, I'll like to bring up No One Lives Forever 2.  NOLF 2 was close to perfect and is still a pretty decent looking game today. 

[Don Flamenco]

but MGS4 has teh deepest story it is very fulfilling and deep and interesting and deep

[drew]

SC just throws out a bunch of names of people that you don't get to see and a bunch of events that you never participated in. 

yeah but that is the situation a covert ops person irl would find themselves in

[cool breeze]

If we're talking about oldies, I'll like to bring up No One Lives Forever 2.  NOLF 2 was close to perfect and is still a pretty decent looking game today. 

NOLF2 was great.  Screw Condemned and FEAR, I want another NOLF.

[brawndolicious]

MGS gives you a lot of ways to get around every level but none of them actually felt that fun.  SC on the other hand makes everything you do be fairly hardcore and easy to fail but the real king of stealth games is Hitman.  The vast majority of any Hitman mission is really just planning, observing, and taking a few calculated risks.  It gets blood rushing to your balls when everything goes right.

[cool breeze]

Didn't like the demo too much 

It feels like Batman AA stealth but a lot more limited, easier, and with really bad AI.  On the hardest difficulty it is still incredibly easy even without using mark and execute or gadgets.  The only time it started to seem like it would require any effort is when I played without directly shooting enemies.  Would say it is too linear but I'm sure it's just the demo since the video walkthroughs have shown more open levels.

Probably just a bad demo but I still don't think I'm gonna get until it's cheap.  AC2 did drop to half price almost right away, so maybe it won't be a long wait.  The 360 version seemed fine, btw.  Tearing problems and people say it's like 5##p or w/e but I thought it looked fine.

[Stoney Mason]

Didn't like the demo too much 

It feels like Batman AA stealth but a lot more limited, easier, and with really bad AI.  On the hardest difficulty it is still incredibly easy even without using mark and execute or gadgets.  The only time it started to seem like it would require any effort is when I played without directly shooting enemies.  Would say it is too linear but I'm sure it's just the demo since the video walkthroughs have shown more open levels.

Probably just a bad demo but I still don't think I'm gonna get until it's cheap.  AC2 did drop to half price almost right away, so maybe it won't be a long wait.  The 360 version seemed fine, btw.  Tearing problems and people say it's like 5##p or w/e but I thought it looked fine.

Valid opinion although I disagree about the Batman part. The level of stealth presented in that demo is probably somewhat comparable to Batman with the difference being people are accepting of it in Batman but some people arguably demand a higher level of stealth for a Splinter Cell game.

[cool breeze]

Didn't like the demo too much 

It feels like Batman AA stealth but a lot more limited, easier, and with really bad AI.  On the hardest difficulty it is still incredibly easy even without using mark and execute or gadgets.  The only time it started to seem like it would require any effort is when I played without directly shooting enemies.  Would say it is too linear but I'm sure it's just the demo since the video walkthroughs have shown more open levels.

Probably just a bad demo but I still don't think I'm gonna get until it's cheap.  AC2 did drop to half price almost right away, so maybe it won't be a long wait.  The 360 version seemed fine, btw.  Tearing problems and people say it's like 5##p or w/e but I thought it looked fine.

Valid opinion although I disagree about the Batman part. The level of stealth presented in that demo is probably somewhat comparable to Batman with the difference being people are accepting of it in Batman but some people arguably demand a higher level of stealth for a Splinter Cell game.

Again it could just be the demo, but Batman had a lot more going on than this.  When you take out an enemy in a older stealth game, you have to hide the body or it would alert the guards.  In Batman, you don't move the body, but the game works around that by having enemies scare easier and later introduce the collars + fake color gadget.  In this demo, you kill a guy and no one seems to care much.  Even on the hardest setting when I threw one of the cameras that could make distraction noises, all the enemies did was turn and face the direction of the noise for a split second; they didn't follow the noise or patrol or anything.

I'm not holding to whatever Splinter Cell standard there was.  Since the first video it seemed like a totally different game and I was more than fine with that.  I think I was actually defending the change in the gaf threads because I liked the Bourne style of action it looked to have.  Demo just reminded me a lot of Batman AA.  Not saying it's bad either, just not as ecstatic for it as I once was.  I'll play it eventually on the 360, just not whenever it comes out.

[Stoney Mason]

Oh I'm not overly either way on the demo or the game yet. That demo is way too short to form anything but the briefest of impressions and while my impressions are positive that is mainly due to how the game works in an optimal situation. In how I was able to move around and execute what I wanted to do which I never felt was possible in the old games. I only played it twice so I didn't test out different things to see how the AI reacted. I'm more going along the lines that Batman stealth was very simple. People don't overly scrutinize it because they buy into the fantasy of playing Batman. There is a lot more scrutiny that tends to go into evaluating a Splinter Cell title.

[Smooth Groove]

I was a little disappointed too, but not because of the gameplay.  After hearing about all the improvements SC has made in terms of presentation, I was expecting Conviction to blow me away visually like Chaos Theory did.   The game isn't ugly but it certainly looks outdated, compared to recent 360 games like Mass Effect 2.  

In terms of gameplay, a quick play-thru didn't give me anything to complain about.  Despite being more oriented towards action, the game still plays very much like Splinter Cell.  You will definitely get your ass kicked if you tried to play it like Call of Duty.  

[Bebpo]

wow, did not like this at all.  It feels way too arcadey.  Like Gears of War Splinter Cell.  You are fast, you can automove from cover to cover.  You can auto-shoot.  You have a radar that sees through walls.  I preferred the old sneak around slowly and quietly, stay out of the light, hide bodies, take out cameras approach.  They've made it so it's like a completely different game now.  If it didn't have Sam Fischer it could have been an original spinoff IP easy.

What happened to the old man Snake, you are walking around the streets beating up hobos, throwing chairs SC5?  I remember it looking pretty cool and nothing flashy like this.  This game feels like I'm playing an MTV special.  All the "tutorials on objects thing" was too cool for this game.  I'd enjoy it in something like Blur that is supposed to be flashy, but splinter cell no.

I guess I should give them credit for having the balls to change the series like RE4 did instead of just rehashing the same game over and over again for decades.  But I think this is the first Splinter Cell I'm going to skip.  As weak as DA was, I enjoyed it much more than this demo.

[Bebpo]

Batman worked with dumbed down stealth because the stealth was only 1 aspect of the game.  Batman had a lot of things going for it.  None of which were particularly amazing, but the overall package of solid to good parts combined with a cool license created a neat game.

[Stoney Mason]

Batman worked with dumbed down stealth because the stealth was only 1 aspect of the game.  Batman had a lot of things going for it.  None of which were particularly amazing, but the overall package of solid to good parts combined with a cool license created a neat game.

I think that Batman worked because it had multiple aspects and it never let any of those aspects go on for too long. That's generally the sign of a lot of very well balanced games. They have varied and good pacing. But you sort of hit it on the head with the Resident Evil analogy. Some people will like this take on Splinter Cell I'm guessing and some people won't. As a guy who didn't especially care for Splinter Cell in the past obviously its pretty clear which side I'm on but like I said I'll wait for the full game before I register my full opinion. It's still possible that even though style and gameplay wise I like this a lot more conceptually than the old SC games, that overall I won't end up finding it to be an enjoyable game on its own merits.

Although like I said, I liked that (admittedly very short) demo. 

[Smooth Groove]

I'm not entirely sure but it seems like the game would allow you to play without many of the auto-aids.  Maybe that would bring back some of the old-school feel that Bebpo is missing?   

[duckman2000]

So it's the God of War of stealth action

God of War

[Bebpo]

I forgot this was by Ubisoft.

PoP2008
Assassin's Creed
now Splinter Cell 5

Their motto seems to have become simplify and take away user control.  Crap, now I'm worried about Ghost Recon and any future Rainbow Six games.

[Smooth Groove]

It's not just UBI though.  Simplification of gaming is happening everywhere. 

I blame the WII, DS and the Iphone. 

[duckman2000]

Their motto seems to have become simplify and take away user control.  Crap, now I'm worried about Ghost Recon and any future Rainbow Six games.

Well, they removed all squad command features from Ghost Recon (with their reasoning being that they want squads to behave more realistically, lulz), so yeah, I'm not sure I even want to see the next Rainbow Six.

It's not just UBI though.  Simplification of gaming is happening everywhere. 

I blame the WII, DS and the Iphone. 

Nah, it was the Xbox.

[cool breeze]

Crap, now I'm worried about Ghost Recon

just curious, have you seen the scans for it? two words: homing bullets

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[duckman2000]

Crap, now I'm worried about Ghost Recon

just curious, have you seen the scans for it? two words: homing bullets

Saw them the other day, and just about every nasty thing is confirmed right there. But the worst of all was that justification for the lack of squad commands, especially when you consider how shitty the A.I. has been in the past.

Oh, and lulz at the enemy rocking an AK.

[demi]

I would love another Rainbow Six

Sorry you guys hate good games

[demi]

Crap, now I'm worried about Ghost Recon

just curious, have you seen the scans for it? two words: homing bullets

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This looks sick

[Bebpo]

Crap, now I'm worried about Ghost Recon

just curious, have you seen the scans for it? two words: homing bullets

hmmmmm.  Can't tell much from the scans other than it's going to be very different.  Will see how the eventual demo turns out.  But yeah, homing bullets are pretty lol.  I like aiming!

[cool breeze]

other than changing up what the brand represents, I'm kinda happy they are changing all this stuff up.  I'm not writing off Conviction yet and so far I prefer the old style, but the Vegas and GRAW games are pretty great.

Future Soldier looks hilarious.  Invisible super soldier jumping around the battle field, firing bullets that aim towards enemies.  It's like crackdown and if it's as fun, I don't care if it's not classic Ghost Recon  I'd still buy it.

my favorite part of future soldier is the red dot sight.  it's just a red dot sight hologram 

[Bebpo]

It's too bad BG&E2 got put on hold.  It's the one franchise they have that would work perfectly in a hand-holding simplified control scheme.  The original was extremely simple, but good.

[duckman2000]

 Invisible super soldier jumping around the battle field, firing bullets that aim towards enemies.

Like every other shooter then. Thank god for variety.

[cool breeze]

That depends entirely on how absurd they decide to make it.  In my mind I picture that hacked MW2 video where people are jumping around launching grenades like machine guns.

[duckman2000]

That depends entirely on how absurd they decide to make it.  In my mind I picture that hacked MW2 video where people are jumping around launching grenades like machine guns.

It's likely not going to be anything like that. It sounds pretty much exactly like Crysis, but with a telepathic squad and with goofier weapons.

[Raban]

Looking at those Ghost Recon scans reminded me, as a 360 owner, GRAW is a must-buy, right?

[duckman2000]

Yes, but be prepared for some remarkably shitty A.I.

[demi]

Looking at those Ghost Recon scans reminded me, as a 360 owner, GRAW is a must-buy, right?

GRAW is pretty dope yes

[duckman2000]

They improved the squad A.I. quite a bit for GRAW 2 and there are a whole lot of maps for multiplayer. You can probably get both games for under $20 so it's definitely worth it.

[Raban]

Aight, cool.

Just played the Conviction demo. Never used to be a fan of Splinter Cell, but Michael Ironside and rewarding gameplay might change that.

Also I don't get the MGS/SC comparisons. I love MGS, but it's distinguished mentally-challenged fellow-grade writing and thinly-veiled wacky-jappy bullshit mixed in with exceedingly crippling controls. Splinter Cell is more of an action/sim, if that makes any sense.

Realistic ftw.

[duckman2000]

How does Ironside sound in the game? In the previews, it has honestly sounded like he's just gotten plain too old for the role.

[Raban]

How does Ironside sound in the game? In the previews, it has honestly sounded like he's just gotten plain too old for the role.

I don't think it matches Sam's appearance, but then again I can't shake Ironside's grisly visage from my mind no matter WHO he voices.

It isn't bad VA quality-wise though.

[Stoney Mason]

How does Ironside sound in the game? In the previews, it has honestly sounded like he's just gotten plain too old for the role.

Giant Bomb said he either sounds drunk or mumbling but he sounds decent enough in the limited time in the demo.

[drew]

those are the worst "scans" ive ever seen

[Jansen]

the gameplay in the demo was pretty slick. it still feels like splinter cell while at the same time adding new gameplay mechanics.

that said the game has some serious presentation issues like the panther crap, screen tearing, and sub-hd res.

maybe one day ubisuck will back off their new drm method and i can get the superior version of conviction.

[chronovore]

I'm always curious about Splinter Cell, even own a couple, but never got around to popping them in. That alone will probably prevent me from purchasing this, though it looks really good. :-/

[demi]

I think.... yes, this calls for a Splinter Cell marathon















Minus the HORRIBLE Double Agent of course

[bork]

Did anyone ever play Double Agent on Xbox/PS2?  I always heard it was much, much better than the shitty next-gen version.  Any truth to this, and is the PC version based on the Xbox or Xbox 360 version?

[brawndolicious]

The buttsoreness against DA is so idiotic.  Maybe the formula got old by then but it didn't get downgraded.  There was like 15 minutes you could spend doing weird "plain-sight" side-misssions in the terrorist HQ but the bulk of the game just played like the other ones, with prettier graphics of course.

[dark1x]

Did anyone ever play Double Agent on Xbox/PS2?  I always heard it was much, much better than the shitty next-gen version.  Any truth to this, and is the PC version based on the Xbox or Xbox 360 version?

PC version is based on the 360 game and it was a TERRRRRIBLE port.  I mean, I found the game for $5 a couple years ago and, even on a GTX260 + Dual Core CPU, the framerate was shit half the time (be curious to try it on my new rig).  That graphics engine was just awful.

Shame Conviction only runs at 1024x576, though.  :\  It's like they don't want me to play this game.  Sub-HD on 360, horrible DRM on the PC.

Still, I'll probably give in at some point as I like the other changes they've made.

[cool breeze]

Did anyone ever play Double Agent on Xbox/PS2?  I always heard it was much, much better than the shitty next-gen version.  Any truth to this, and is the PC version based on the Xbox or Xbox 360 version?

original Xbox version is more like Chaos Theory, yes.

and as dark1x mentioned above, the PC version was a bit messy compared to the SC1 and CT (I don't even know if PT came out on PC).

Pandora tomorrow is probably the second worst in the series.  I remember it more for the multiplayer because the single player was really picky about the alarms.  It would have you fail the mission because of the jank AI or w/e.  Chaos Theory is still the best.

also, I didn't think Conviction looked that bad or anything.  Didn't look great, but it wasn't unplayable or anything.

[The Fake Shemp]

This game is pretty much Splinter Cell: Arkham Asylum.

... I'm totally onboard.

[drew]

I think.... yes, this calls for a Splinter Cell marathon

way ahead of you

i bought chaos theory off of xbl the other day

no ive never played it before

[maxy]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

 

[Beezy]

I need to play the demo.

[Bebpo]

I need to play the demo.

But then you might ruin your day and hate Ubisoft

[demi]

Or prove you have better taste than Bebpo

[drew]

i can do the same thing with less emp grenades

[brawndolicious]

I just played the demo and it was awesome.  It's probably going to be even funner on Realistic replay.  It obviously doesn't play anything like the last SC games but it's also more challenging (because you're usually outnumbered and in plain sight).

[Raban]

i can do the same thing with less emp grenades

I didn't even use an EMP grenade.