Author Topic: Avatar: Willco still hates it  (Read 105347 times)

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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #840 on: December 23, 2009, 10:31:04 PM »
Manabyte says a lot of things, you might have noticed that people don't listen to any of them.
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #841 on: December 23, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »
I really do urge the "haters" of this film to catch it while it is out at the theatres. Even if you goto a cheaper matinee at a RealD screening.

If you are someone who obsesses over movies, you will find a lot to like about it. Cameron does such a great job at pacing that he minimizes the flaws of his movie. The only time I was really looking at my watch was at the end of the movie when the final battle scene (which I felt was flat) goes into Hollywood autopilot.

It's really a visual experience. One that sticks with you much longer than any other effects-laden movie I can think of.



Great post except for the bolded. I canot recall a better or more ambitious or better action scene.

Really?  I can think of about 3 or 4 from this year that were a bit more engaging.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #842 on: December 23, 2009, 11:47:32 PM »
lol you serious? I can't think of a better action sequence this decade let alone this shitty year.
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Don Flamenco

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #843 on: December 24, 2009, 12:38:35 AM »
lol you serious? I can't think of a better action sequence this decade let alone this shitty year.

I can think of 6

brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #844 on: December 24, 2009, 02:26:41 AM »
The movie was pretty good! I won't repeat the usual comments about the so-so story or flat characters but seeing it in the IMAX with the GLORIOUS 3D was great and the movie was surprisingly entertaining and exhilarating. While James Cameron's rhetoric about this revolutionizing CG is a bit bunk they did a seriously impressive job with the lighting, post processing, and actor implementation. They deserve serious kudos for that kind of groundwork.

Haters annihilated by Ferngully 2 confirmed.
I'd recommend that people watch this just for the special effects and the three action scenes but I really couldn't see any way that this benefited from 3D.  The CGI is seamless but that was actually annoying to me in that the planet and the aliens didn't look supernatural (re: interesting) imo.  Big ass waste in my mind.

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #845 on: December 24, 2009, 05:17:31 AM »
I can't think of a better action sequence, full stop.

Thats a BINGO!

fistfulofmetal

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nat

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #847 on: December 24, 2009, 08:02:36 AM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
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How the fuck can anyone think that's hot?
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fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #848 on: December 24, 2009, 08:11:09 AM »
if it was an actual person. but you know, sans the blue skin. she would be pretty hot. blue skin isn't an issue tho for me. i'm not racist.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #849 on: December 24, 2009, 08:22:42 AM »
:lol
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brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #850 on: December 24, 2009, 08:50:01 AM »
The tail, ears, eyes, and nose are the big issues you perv.

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #851 on: December 24, 2009, 09:00:07 AM »
the eyes are kinda sexy.
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #852 on: December 24, 2009, 09:07:35 AM »
You've gotta be kidding.  The bizarre huge cat-like eyes?
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fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #853 on: December 24, 2009, 09:11:32 AM »
you must not know me very well
nat

Great Rumbler

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #854 on: December 24, 2009, 11:11:03 AM »
You know, for all the talk about Avatar having some super-huge, unwarranted budget, it's really not that much more than a lot of other really huge movies that have come out recently. Terminator Salvation cost $200 million, Transformers 2 cost $200 million, Pirates 3 cost $300 million, Spider-man 3 cost $258 million, Prince Caspian cost $225 million, and X-Men 3 cost $210 million.

I don't think there are many people that would argue that any of those are better movies than Avatar or that those movies spent there money anywhere close to as well as Avatar did.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #855 on: December 24, 2009, 11:20:29 AM »
Regarding a sequel, I wonder if they're going to go with a direct continuation of this storyline or it's going to be a different story, but about Pandora since that's Avatar's best character and what's been given the most attention. Something like a prequel, that's about the actual discovery of Pandora.
i

demi

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #856 on: December 24, 2009, 11:21:09 AM »
Why does this thread have Aerosmith in it. You arent doing Avatar any favors
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #857 on: December 24, 2009, 11:21:36 AM »
I didn't say Cameron poorly spent his budget, but all those films have built-in fanbases, hence why it's they are a solid bet financially. Avatar is a risky gamble. As I said, I think it will pay off, but to the degree that those other films did for their respective studios? To be determined.

I'm not a fan of mega-budget films anyway, for reasons already stated. Compromise, collaboration and adversity create the best movies; a film will never reach its full potential if producers and directors get to throw money at all the problems. Imagine if Cameron couldn't necessarily film anything he wanted, thus forcing him to be creative - maybe using, I don't know, characterization to make a thematic point he would have otherwise used an extravagant sequence for.
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demi

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #858 on: December 24, 2009, 11:29:30 AM »
Buy him a ticket on Fandango, it is Christmas
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #859 on: December 24, 2009, 11:34:55 AM »
The extravagant sequences are the whole fucking point, Failco.

Wait, so you're in total agreement that Avatar is nothing but an extravagant spectacle, and characterization and dialogue don't matter?

Quote
Christ, just go see the movie already.

I don't even need to now. You agreed with me.
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Mupepe

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #860 on: December 24, 2009, 11:38:50 AM »
Fuck it, you know what? Willco, I will pay for you to see this film. No joke. PM me the details, and I'll buy you a ticket online with my credit card. Not shitting you. I'm not even expecting you to like it, but I'm sick of you trolling something you haven't seen.
Don't you have to show the card you used to purchase the tickets when you pick them up?  Or is there some new school way that I've missed.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #861 on: December 24, 2009, 11:39:49 AM »
If you're going to buy me a ticket to a movie, I also want a large soda - as I said earlier.

I am not a cheap date. I will not put out for anything less than soda and popcorn.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #862 on: December 24, 2009, 11:42:41 AM »
I didn't say Cameron poorly spent his budget, but all those films have built-in fanbases, hence why it's they are a solid bet financially.

Avatar will easily pass, and leave behind in the dust, Prince Caspian, X-Men: The Last Stand, and Terminator Salvation.

Quote
Don't you have to show the card you used to purchase the tickets when you pick them up?  Or is there some new school way that I've missed.

When you buy the ticket, you get a order number. Some places have a kiosk that you can put the number into and print your tickets out.

Or you can print out the order page from the site itself and present them at the box office.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 11:44:40 AM by Great Rumbler »
dog

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #863 on: December 24, 2009, 11:46:21 AM »
i think so.  not sure where though.  at the avatar showing I went to, the people in front of me were showing the guys at the door a huge piece of paper.  i assumed it was a ticket printed out online.  but everything I have ever used makes you take the card to either the machine or customer service desk and have them print them out.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #864 on: December 24, 2009, 11:46:38 AM »
Avatar will easily pass, and leave behind in the dust, Prince Caspian, X-Men: The Last Stand, and Terminator Salvation.

Two of which are considered duds (or underperformers at the least) in their respective industry. So, uh, yay?

Other films Avatar is likely to outgross: Pluto Nash, Godzilla, Watchmen, etc.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #865 on: December 24, 2009, 11:53:05 AM »
The extravagant sequences are the whole fucking point, Failco.

Wait, so you're in total agreement that Avatar is nothing but an extravagant spectacle, and characterization and dialogue don't matter?


They don't  matter in a fucking blockbuster 300 million dollars movie, thats not what people paid to see, thats why everyone loves the fucking movie because they got what they wanted.

But in Cameron's defence Avatar was the first time that I cared about the main characters in a movie like this since T2.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #866 on: December 24, 2009, 11:54:04 AM »
Oh Jesus.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #867 on: December 24, 2009, 11:57:38 AM »
Quote
Two of which are considered duds (or underperformers at the least) in their respective industry. So, uh, yay?

Other films Avatar is likely to outgross: Pluto Nash, Godzilla, Watchmen, etc.

Avatar will hit $400 million before the second weekend starts.
dog

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #868 on: December 24, 2009, 12:08:33 PM »
Solo already has expressed his opinion, and nobody jumped on his dick™ because he called a spade, well, exactly that. I think Solo acknowledged that it is indeed spectacle entertainment and that it is a rousing success on that level, which I don't think anyone truly doubts (well, maybe except for Patel).

But that's not good enough for you, it has to be better than a good popcorn flick, it has to be respected, despite the fact that it is not a great film worthy of serious awards consideration because of glaring flaws that even its more ardent fans concede. Patel said it better than I can, when he told me:

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel
We saw the same thing with The Dark Knight. It's not enough to like it. It's not enough enough to be good. It needs the respect of the establishment. It needs Best Picture nominations! It needs Best Actor nominations!

The only difference is that at least The Dark Knight had a good screenplay.

®jumped on his dick is a registered trademark of Saint Cornelius, and cannot be use without consent. Or not.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:11:46 PM by Willco »
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #869 on: December 24, 2009, 12:12:42 PM »
Transformers' acting/characters/dialogue make Avatar's acting/characters/dialogue seem like Citizen Kane.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #870 on: December 24, 2009, 12:14:17 PM »
Again, if Transformers is to be the standard of which Avatar is judged against (by its fans, no less), then you have made my point for me.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #871 on: December 24, 2009, 12:14:50 PM »
TDK>Avatar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Slumdog>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>benjamin button>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>juno.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #872 on: December 24, 2009, 12:16:37 PM »
And Diunx seals the deal with that post. Cancel the Oscars folks, we have a winner. Perspective, objectivity and fundamental storytelling can all go home, you guys lost big time.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #873 on: December 24, 2009, 12:23:26 PM »
He agreed on the basis of technical merits I believe, which is not something I necessarily disagree with. It's the only serious category that allows for that kind of nomination.

Saying it should be nominated for Best Picture, Best Original Screenplay, Best Actor, etc. (y'know the things that make a truly great film) is pretty laughable, though. There is a point where blind fanboy fanaticism becomes downright pathetic.

But it's not like you haven't crossed that bridge before.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #874 on: December 24, 2009, 12:27:25 PM »
Again, if Transformers is to be the standard of which Avatar is judged against (by its fans, no less), then you have made my point for me.

I just think it's nice that a well-made event film that's not a sequel or based on an existing, bankable franchise is bringing in some decent money.

GS is going to over-hype it, because that's what GS does, but Avatar really is a legitimately good [even great, perhaps] event film. Much more so than a lot of the ones from recent years.
dog

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #875 on: December 24, 2009, 12:32:23 PM »
Failco just got into the bizz and already is typical Hollywood knowitall.
i

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #876 on: December 24, 2009, 12:36:58 PM »
As Mandark already put it:

Quote from: Mandark
Plenty of very good films follow the conventions of a genre, but nothing from the reviews suggests that Avatar has anything in the way of writing or acting to rise above predictability, or that the new technology adds anything other than very realistic images of an alien world.  That's an impressive achievement, and they have Oscars specifically for that kind of stuff.  You know, the ones where the time limit on acceptance speeches is strictly enforced.

I have no problem with someone labeling Avatar as a good film, with the caveat of for a popcorn flick (substitute spectacle or event dependent on preference), but saying it deserves a Best Picture nomination is silly. Best Picture is nominated to exactly that - best picture - which is usually comprised of the same elements that you think Avatar doesn't deserve a nomination for.

... they already have an awards ceremony for films that people like you think are the best of the year: it's called the MTV Movie Awards.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:52:16 PM by Willco »
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #877 on: December 24, 2009, 12:38:59 PM »
It'll probably get nominated for Best Picture and Best Director, but it won't win the former. The latter...I could see that happening.

I mean, let's not pretend that Hollywood doesn't like it's event films. Star Wars got nominations for Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Screenplay. They even tossed one to Alec Guinness! How wild is that?
dog

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #878 on: December 24, 2009, 12:39:35 PM »
Failco just got into the bizz and already is typical Hollywood knowitall.

Obviously. Here I am with my crazy theories about characterization and storytelling and dialogue. It's like I reinvented the wheel!
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #879 on: December 24, 2009, 12:41:43 PM »
I mean, let's not pretend that Hollywood doesn't like it's event films. Star Wars got nominations for Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Screenplay. They even tossed one to Alec Guinness! How wild is that?

A New Hope was a legitimately great film. Some of the dialogue is - dare I say - Cameron level, but its narrative is fantastic and its characterization is second to none. Avatar will be remembered for Pandora, Star Wars is remembered for its characters.

And I won't go into the fact that A New Hope was a legitimate game-changer. Avatar is pretty much an evolution in special effects, and its only lasting impact might be that it sped up the adoption of 3D in an industry that was already moving that way.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:44:35 PM by Willco »
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ferrarimanf355

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #880 on: December 24, 2009, 12:41:58 PM »
I saw it yesterday. It was pretty good, although I could have lived without seeing Sigourney Weaver in blue skin.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Plus, I shed a tear when her character died.  :'(
[close]
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #881 on: December 24, 2009, 12:42:59 PM »
Honestly, Willco, this is just as asinine as a music critic arguing that the best album of a year must have deep, introspective lyrics.



Obviously.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
All too easy. :lol
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #882 on: December 24, 2009, 12:44:21 PM »
And why couldn't its technical merits be so good that it qualifies for Best Picture on that alone? Quit thinking of film as an extension of theater.
Because in a year where there are so many films with legitimately good stories, writing and scripts, it would be ridiculous to award a film as deeply flawed as Avatar.

I'm totally fine with Annie Hall winning an Oscar over Star Wars.

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #883 on: December 24, 2009, 12:47:10 PM »
Willco, I've forgotten more musical theory and technique than you will ever know in your lifetime, so don't even bring that shit up.

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #884 on: December 24, 2009, 12:47:58 PM »
GS, why do you take everything so fucking personal? Take some time off and go to the park or something.

It's the internet for fuck sake.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #886 on: December 24, 2009, 12:50:07 PM »
Yeah, Green Shinobi, you need some time to relax. Since you are a music and film connoisseur, with expert knowledge in musical theory and technique, I think you'll really dig this album:

spoiler (click to show/hide)


It might be too deep for my primitive understanding of the art form.
[close]
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:51:41 PM by Willco »
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Tieno

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #887 on: December 24, 2009, 12:55:12 PM »
Failco just got into the bizz and already is typical Hollywood knowitall.

Obviously. Here I am with my crazy theories about characterization and storytelling and dialogue. It's like I reinvented the wheel!
Hence why I said you're a typical Hollywood knowitall.
i

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #888 on: December 24, 2009, 12:56:43 PM »
Can you really name ten films (with a legitimate chance at an Oscar, no obscure indies) that deserve a nomination more? In a field of five, maybe Avatar shouldn't be in there. In a field of ten, there's no way it gets left out.

Didn't we already do this?

A Serious Man, Up in the Air, The Hurt Locker, Nine, An Education, Inglorious Basterds, A Single Man, Precious, An Education, UP, The Lovely Bones, The Road, The White Ribbon, The Messenger.....

I'm not saying Avatar might not squeak in a nomination.....just that it shouldn't rightfully be able to win over all this stuff that has superior execution of more than just special effects.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #889 on: December 24, 2009, 12:58:41 PM »
Green Shinobi has a tiny penis. It isn't even thick.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #890 on: December 24, 2009, 12:58:59 PM »
To be fair, The Lovely Bones apparently sucks. Nine is not that great either.

Throw in Crazy Heart and either Moon, (500) Days of Summer, In the Loop or Skin, and you'd have yourself a real Oscar field.

Green Shinobi has a tiny penis. It isn't even thick.

Well he's obviously compensating for something.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #891 on: December 24, 2009, 01:01:16 PM »
Avatar is better than moon.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #892 on: December 24, 2009, 01:01:29 PM »
Nine is not that great either.

Neither was Chicago?

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #893 on: December 24, 2009, 01:03:41 PM »
Chicago at least had the benefit of being well-received by critics hungry for something that we really had not seen in film in awhile.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #894 on: December 24, 2009, 01:06:31 PM »
Alright, guys, start placing your bets now. What's the over/under on amount of days that Willco will continue to trash talk Avatar without actually having seen it?

I'm going with 10 days.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #895 on: December 24, 2009, 01:10:09 PM »
When a screener comes out.
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Herr Mafflard

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #896 on: December 24, 2009, 01:10:49 PM »
I dunno, but I wasn't really taken in by action sequences in this film, save for one of the scenes', which was the one that was supposed to have the most emotional impact, I guess. But the fact that it was initiated by the most generic and clichéd character in the movie made its effect feel flat, much like most of the movie. I get it, it's a glorified cartoon. What I don't get is grown people going gaga for this shit. It's is an average movie in nearly every respect. I suppose James Cameron gets a free pass from critics in regards to story and characters.

For me there was nothing special about the movie. Not the action sequences, not the music score, not the performances and definitely not the story.

So the blue cat-people have well animated faces, whoopee-doo. I doubt if many people would care about this movie in a few years time.  

Just blowing shit up doesn't cut it here I'm afraid. It works in stuff like Lethal Weapon because of the chemistry between Murtaugh and Riggs and their reactions to it. Sure it's nice for a couple of seconds, but the audience don't really care about the explosion, they want to see it's effects through a couple of charismatic characters.

And to digress slightly, I watched the Truman Show on tv yesterday. Man that cleansed the palette nicely. A great movie that gets better with age.




The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #897 on: December 24, 2009, 01:23:02 PM »
Alright, guys, start placing your bets now. What's the over/under on amount of days that Willco will continue to trash talk Avatar without actually having seen it?

Damn my trash talk, where I call it spectacle entertainment and state I do not necessarily disagree with a Best Director nomination! I am such a hater! Grr! :dizzy

... it's true, Green Shinobi, most critics have never seen a live-action adaptation of Delgo before. Best Picture contender confirmed.
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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #898 on: December 24, 2009, 01:27:22 PM »
Alright, guys, start placing your bets now. What's the over/under on amount of days that Willco will continue to trash talk Avatar without actually having seen it?

Damn my trash talk, where I call it spectacle entertainment and state I do not necessarily disagree with a Best Director nomination! I am such a hater! Grr! :dizz

If that was all you needed to do to experience a movie, you might as well not watch any at all. Just read synopses and plots on Wikipedia and reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.
dog

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Re: Avatar: Train kept a-rollin', all night long
« Reply #899 on: December 24, 2009, 01:29:11 PM »
Avatar has the benefit of being well-received by critics hungry for something that we really have not seen in film in awhile (if ever).

Fixed.

Edit:

Eat it Willco.

http://moviecitynews.com/awards/2010/gurus/gurus_091223.html

I won't even call you stupid for posting a link that says what we have pretty much been saying for - what - a week now?*

But the best part is when I get to save this post and use it against you if you ever, ever say serious awards consideration doesn't necessarily validate any future film. Which I'm sure will come up once you see a legitimately great film and are stupefied by crazy things like "characterization" and "dialogue".

spoiler (click to show/hide)
* p.s. you're stupid
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