Avatar: Willco still hates it

[The Fake Shemp]

Alright, guys, start placing your bets now. What's the over/under on amount of days that Willco will continue to trash talk Avatar without actually having seen it?

Damn my trash talk, where I call it spectacle entertainment and state I do not necessarily disagree with a Best Director nomination! I am such a hater! Grr! :dizz

If that was all you needed to do to experience a movie, you might as well not watch any at all. Just read synopses and plots on Wikipedia and reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.

... or better yet, I go see the movies I want to see and in the cases where a general consensus has been met on the flaws and weaknesess on a film that I have little desire to see, I don't see it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like romantic comedies, how do you know if this is a bad one unless you see it!"

The winner is me here.

[The Fake Shemp]

Your opinion doesn't matter, Willco. Avatar is going to be nominated for Best Picture. I'll stake my account on that right now. But you'll probably just moan about how that nomination invalidates the entire institution. And the saddest part is when that happens, you probably still won't have seen it.

Why would you stake your account on something that was never in question? I think we all agreed that it's likely to get nominated, the difference between you and the people that have taste is that we realize that it is a stupid nomination for stupid people.

[Great Rumbler]

Willco: Man, these Oscar voters are crazy. I can't believe a movie like Avatar is going to get nominated when other, far better, films aren't. It's a downright travesty really. I mean, it's got terrible dialogue, acting, characters and all that. Those kinds of things just don't make a great movie, no matter how awesome the special effects or action are.

Random person: So what kind of rating would you give it then?

Willco: Huh? I haven't it seen it yet, but I've read some reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.

[The Fake Shemp]

Again, why does my opinion matter when its favorable reviews, from the very people that nominate films, have pretty much reached a consensus that it does not meet certain standards? It's not like the fact that it has weak characterization and a mediocre screenplay is a polarizing opinion.

O WAIT FANBOIS

[The Fake Shemp]

Yes, I cherry picked quotes from the positive reviews.

DAMN MY CHERRY PICKIN'

[Great Rumbler]

Again, why does my opinion matter when its favorable reviews, from the very people that nominate films, have pretty much reached a consensus that it does not meet certain standards? It's not like the fact that it has weak characterization and a mediocre screenplay is a polarizing opinion.

O WAIT FANBOIS

[The Fake Shemp]

I can't wait for Glen Shinobi's Top 10 films of the decade, which will probably include King Kong and some other turd, because that guy is an idiot.

[Tieno]

Willco gets a hardon reading reviews. He forms his opinion on what other people say, not on his own. He's as mindless as they come, with no voice of his own. Should fit right in with Hollywood. I won't expect anything unique coming from his mind.

[Great Rumbler]

I really want to forget about this thread and not ever enter it again. I really do.

[The Fake Shemp]

Its true, I am not known for contrasting opinions, embracing spectacle or watching films whatsoever.

I guess you can say I'm almost as much of an idiot as Glen Shinobi, who also uses people's opinions (and awards consideration) to prop up his own.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's a pretty good list... if you write at Ain't It Cool News.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm going to see it after Christmas. I suppose I could troll without seeing it, but I'll have less clout. Only problem is that if I don't see it in 3D people will move the goal posts and claim I "reallly" haven't seen the flick

hmmm an extra $3 to legitimately troll.  :'(

[CajoleJuice]

That's a pretty good list... if you write at Ain't It Cool News.

 :'(

Half of those would be on my list.

[Great Rumbler]

Add another $16.4 million to Avatar's total. That's a slight increase from Tuesday. Worldwide total is now $345 million after six days [not counting foreign gross for the sixth day].

[Solo]

Solo already has expressed his opinion, and nobody jumped on his dick™ because he called a spade, well, exactly that. I think Solo acknowledged that it is indeed spectacle entertainment and that it is a rousing success on that level, which I don't think anyone truly doubts (well, maybe except for Patel).[/size]

Its the most rousingly successful spectacle feature Ive ever seen, and the emotional moments work, in spite of Cameron's dialogue. The films flaws lie wholly on paper. The spectacle is, well, spectacular, and the actors for the most part do well do lift their characters above what was obviously hollow on paper.

In short, nothing has changed since the first day this released: weak screenplay, awesomesauce everything else. Of course, a weak script is usually the killer, but in an event movie like this, its easier to relax your standards.

[The Fake Shemp]

I just lol'd so hard.

I totally get what you're saying, Glen. I mean, on paper, your opinions are so bad - but the way you type them make me tear up...

... with laughter.

[Great Rumbler]

Keep digging that hole, Willco, eventually you'll come out on the other side.

[The Fake Shemp]

What hole? The hole to center of whatever planet Green Shinobi lives on?

Because it ain't this one. Maybe he lives on - wait for it - Pandroa.

[AdmiralViscen]

Add another $16.4 million to Avatar's total. That's a slight increase from Tuesday. Worldwide total is now $345 million after six days [not counting foreign gross for the sixth day].

I can't believe willco is still trying to paint this as a financial blunder by fox.

[CajoleJuice]

Willco's jokes have lowered to the level of Avatar's screenplay.

[The Fake Shemp]

To be fair, I never said a) it was a blunder or b) it would tank.

But if don't see the risk behind greenlight that probably needs more $600 million to just break even, you probably work at Fox.

The numbers really haven't changed that.

[The Fake Shemp]

Wow, that was brutal, Juice.

Nobody should be compared to Avatar's screenplay - not even Green Shinobi!

[Solo]

To be fair, I never said a) it was a blunder or b) it would tank.

But if don't see the risk behind greenlight that probably needs more $600 million to just break even, you probably work at Fox.

The numbers really haven't changed that.

But its going to make a billion, mang.

[Great Rumbler]

Willco's antics might be funny if we hadn't already gone through 25 pages and had an actual end in sight.

[AdmiralViscen]

To be fair, I never said a) it was a blunder or b) it would tank.

But if don't see the risk behind greenlight that probably needs more $600 million to just break even, you probably work at Fox.

The numbers really haven't changed that.

To be fair, you never really SAY anyhing. You keep comments on tangible things vague so you cant be quote-owned later. but we all know you werent expecting avatar to be the success that it is.

You learned your lesson after your abominable and specific predictions for halo wars and star trek.

[Great Rumbler]

With foreign totals for Wednesday in, Avatar gets bumped up to $381 million. That's $36 million from outside the US yesterday.

That puts it above X-Men Origins, Terminator Salvation, and Monsters vs. Aliens.

[Solo]

Im gonna celebrate this thread by seeing Avatar for a third time!

[ManaByte]

I just watched District 9. That's 10x the movie Avatar is and it cost 10x less. I'm dying to see the sequel, but I could care less about an Avatar sequel. Every second of District 9 was riveting, and when it ends you want the sequel immediately. When Avatar ends you're like "Eh, the 3D and CG was good...story not so much".

[Solo]

Solo, am I off base with that example I gave? What scenes would you choose to illustrate the point you were making?

About actors elevating the script?

[Great Rumbler]

Im gonna celebrate this thread by seeing Avatar for a third time!

I'm going to see it again, but not until after Christmas when the crowds start to shrink.

I just watched District 9. That's 10x the movie Avatar is and it cost 10x less. I'm dying to see the sequel, but I could care less about an Avatar sequel. Every second of District 9 was riveting, and when it ends you want the sequel immediately. When Avatar ends you're like "Eh, the 3D and CG was good...story not so much".

Avatar wasn't quite as good as District 9's first half, but it stomps all over the second half when D9 goes into action movie mode. First half was legitimately great though and I actually would have preferred more of that sort of movie than what it became.

[ManaByte]

District 9's story was better too.

[Great Rumbler]

District 9's story was better too.

It's just Alien Nation set in South Africa.

On another note, Avatar still hasn't released in Japan, China, and Italy yet. Three countries which could raise the total by $60-$70 million when all's said and done.

[The Fake Shemp]

AdmiralViscen... you are correct in that I rightfully deserved a tongue lashing for underestimating Halo Warz, but to recap what I've said:

1. This film will have to break $600 mil to be a wash

2. You could make a lot more profit with a smaller investment

I don't think it will have Titanic-like legs, like Solo believes. We'll see.

[Solo]

Exactly (and I would add the directing to the list of features that elevated the script).

Every single Neytiri scene (Zoe Saldana rocked the shit out of her role) and same for Stephen Lang's scenes. Neytiri was written with a lot of cheesey lines that could have killed the movie dead in its tracks. Instead, on the strength of her role, it only had 2 quick scenes that were awkward. Lang's character was as paper-thin and moustache-twirling a villain as youll find, but he similarly added a ton of colour to his character.

[The Fake Shemp]

Did you tear up, Solo? Did it tug your emotional strings?

[Solo]

Of course I didnt tear up, but the movie does hit all the right emotional beats.

[fistfulofmetal]

less arguing and more hawt neytiri pix plz

[AdmiralViscen]

Shut the fuck up green shinobi!

[The Fake Shemp]

 

This justification for the lack of characterization smells an awful like... The Phantom Menace.

"He's supposed to be a little boy! Little boys are one-dimensional and obnoxious!"

[Tieno]

What a shitty thread this is, the GAF thread is much better.

[AdmiralViscen]

Because solo had a perfectly good observation without You tripping over yourself to make it sound better han it was. Obviously that character could have been better, even though hhe didnt ruin the movie.

[The Fake Shemp]

The GAF thread also has furries talking about wanting to sex a computer-generated cat character. I'm so hurt those guys would laugh at me. :'(

[Herr Mafflard]

The actors didn't elevate the script. In fact you could say that the performances were ordinary enough that it compounded the already ordinary script. The lead actor is plain, the villain thoroughly cliched - I agree that Lang did a good job, but the role didn't remit him to bring a quality of freshness to his character, which ended up stale regardless of acting chops. The only performance mildy absorbing was also the most exotic character in the script, and that was Zoe Saldana, whom I praised before itt.
 
Compare this to TDK for example where there was some genuinely great performances ala Gary Oldman and Heath Ledger that did elevate the script.

[fistfulofmetal]

Zoe Saldana

[The Fake Shemp]

The actors didn't elevate the script. In fact you could say that the performances were ordinary enough that it compounded the already ordinary script. The lead actor is plain, the villain thoroughly cliched - I agree that Lang did a good job, but the role didn't remit him to bring a quality of freshness to his character, which ended up stale regardless of acting chops. The only performance mildy absorbing was also the most exotic character in the script, and that was Zoe Saldana, whom I praised before itt.
 
Compare this to TDK for example where there was some genuinely great performances ala Gary Oldman and Heath Ledger that did elevate the script.

IF THIS WAS GAF YOU WOULD BE LAUGHED OUT OF HERE HOW DARE U

[The Fake Shemp]

Did you just cite velociraptors as an example of a one-dimensional character?

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, Michael Crichton did a bang up job inventing dinosaurs.

[border]

Yeah, the people who rag on Quarritch make no sense to me. He's a hardass military colonel who was probably chosen for his position precisely because he's an incredible hardass who wouldn't have qualms about taking out a native population. How much depth do you really expect out of someone like that? Does anyone really expect him to be Javert?

Quarritch is positively awful.  There is nothing interesting or menacing about him.  He's just a hothead with powerful weapons.  The last couple years have seen so many great movie villains -- it's astounding to see that some pretty CG has made people forget them in favor of someone doing a corny drill sergeant impression.  Excusing such a a hollow character by comparing him to non-human anatagonists like the T-1000 and velociraptors is fucking lol-tastic.

[The Fake Shemp]

Hey, he has a lot of character depth compared to the tornado from Twister.

[AdmiralViscen]

Im typing on a touchscreen lol, not now.

However, yes military leaders can be 3 dimensional, and so is my asshole boss and even my cat.

[The Fake Shemp]

border wasn't being hostile, you twat.

[Herr Mafflard]

But how would you have written him better? He does exactly what that kind of character would do in those situations. He's not the type to experience self-doubt, remorse or hesitation. He's not the type to ever show weakness. He's one-dimensional in the same way your asshole boss is one-dimensional, the way the T-1000 or Jurassic Park's velociraptors or Lumberg from Office Space were one-dimensional. And it's awesome.

I don't think you could justify a character that is trying to commit genocide by saying, "Oh him . He's just an asshole". But the script does just that imo. I think the only backstory we got on his character was when he showed off his battle scars to Jake, "Hurr Hurr looka me, see these badass scars. I got these in 'Nam. I'm way more badass than you, chicken legs."

It's an average movie. There's more drama itt than the whole movie.

[border]

The problem isn't even that Quarritch is one-dimensional.....it's just that he is GENERIC MARINE ASSHOLE #408078.  There is nothing original or interesting about him. 

There's plenty of room for one-dimensional villains, so long as they are well-written, well-acted and very distinct:

[Human Snorenado]

And Diunx seals the deal with that post. Cancel the Oscars folks, we have a winner. Perspective, objectivity and fundamental storytelling can all go home, you guys lost big time.

Says the guy who is a big time horror flick figgurt.

[The Fake Shemp]

Says the guy who is a big time horror flick figgurt.

Says the guy who not only is self-admitted horror flick figgurt, but agrees with you that the horror community by and large overrates derivative genre fare and would never, ever call for Drag Me to Hell to be nominated for Best Picture - despite the fact that it has a higher aggregated score than Avatar on Rotten Tomatoes.

[border]

If I were Willco, I would go see Avatar but continue to pretend not to have seen it.  His refusal to view the film seems to be a far more effective trolling tool than actually having viewed it.

[The Fake Shemp]

Why go see something I've seen ten times before?

[AdmiralViscen]

How come shit ass paul reiser was 3D in aliens green shinobi

[The Fake Shemp]

To be fair, was Paul Reiser as terrifying as RAPTORS and ROBOTS?

[Great Rumbler]

Says the guy who is a big time horror flick figgurt.

Says the guy who not only is self-admitted horror flick figgurt, but agrees with you that the horror community by and large overrates derivative genre fare and would never, ever call for Drag Me to Hell to be nominated for Best Picture - despite the fact that it has a higher aggregated score than Avatar on Rotten Tomatoes.

The aggregate from the top critics is lower on Drag Me to Hell, as is the average score from the top critics.