Author Topic: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)  (Read 51134 times)

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iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #480 on: October 23, 2010, 05:27:34 PM »
You don't even need to upgrade weapons. It's just a bonus. God Hard makes you use level 1 weapons for the entire game.

Btw, the lock-on laser is much better than I initially gave it credit for. It's really useful when it pops up on God Hard. Tons of robots around knock you into overheat if you take just a few bullets; with the lock-on laser you can just blind fire without having to even aim and it will take care of everything. Great weapon.

Still don't like the LFE or disc launcher though. Disc launcher would be good if I melee'd more, but I just stick with the shotgun, AR, and HMG. And rocket lawnchair whenever that pops up.
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #481 on: October 23, 2010, 05:28:30 PM »
So, useless upgrades that "aren't required" and I get chasitised for using what's in the game

Nope, not arbitrary jap design here
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #482 on: October 23, 2010, 05:31:10 PM »
They shouldn't have counted weapon pick ups as a partial upgrade if you're full on ammo, I'll agree with that. They should have only had upgrade cubes and that's it, since it would stop people from just using one weapon the entire time while trying to upgrade everything needlessly.

BiSH

Beezy

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #483 on: October 23, 2010, 05:31:56 PM »
Still don't like the LFE or disc launcher though. Disc launcher would be good if I melee'd more, but I just stick with the shotgun, AR, and HMG. And rocket lawnchair whenever that pops up.
Knock down big robots with LFE. Multiple shotgun blasts while they're down. If they get up with a decent amount of HP do it again. If not, finish with melee and a couple more shots.

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #484 on: October 23, 2010, 05:32:53 PM »
just drop down to casual auto if you're having too much trouble with the game

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #485 on: October 23, 2010, 05:33:46 PM »
just drop down to casual auto if you're having too much trouble with the game

Uh. I'm playing the game fine on Hard. I've done 3 Challenges and up to Level 4-2 or so.

Sorry ya'll cant see through those slant eyes of yours for some real talk.
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #486 on: October 23, 2010, 05:42:22 PM »
I forgot that you need to finish it on hard to get the achievement lol

Third

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #487 on: October 23, 2010, 06:48:08 PM »
Saw a friend of mine play this game today. The action looked over the top. It was pretty entertaining to watch.
Looked pretty awesome. He played really well too.
But I really don't like playing these games. Everything is so fast and you have to think too much.

Junpei the Tracer!

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #488 on: October 23, 2010, 06:51:29 PM »
Saw a friend of mine play this game today. The action looked over the top. It was pretty entertaining to watch.
Looked pretty awesome. He played really well too.
But I really don't like playing these games. Everything is so fast and you have to think too much.

Oh this made me laugh. Third :heartbeat
Boo

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #489 on: October 23, 2010, 09:31:28 PM »
All the reading I was about the "Unknown" and "Crystal Viper" I was expecting something cool.

Instead I got a trash heap and a see-thru cyborg. Yawn
fat

Beezy

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #490 on: October 23, 2010, 09:40:53 PM »
All the reading I was about the "Unknown" and "Crystal Viper" I was expecting something cool.

Instead I got a trash heap and a see-thru cyborg. Yawn
Okay, that made me laugh. :lol

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #491 on: October 23, 2010, 10:29:42 PM »
Unknown is awesome. Crimson Viper is the worst fight in the game imo. Just a bullet sponge that's super easy to kill. Meh.

Just got done with Act 2 on God Hard. Again. :bow GotY is an understatement.
BiSH

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #492 on: October 23, 2010, 10:37:26 PM »
wow, enemy placement does change on higher difficulty.  I'm playing through 2.3 to make that one mech stand up and it is different on normal.

also, the dlc gamestop preorder weapons should have been in the game proper.  The armor pistol is awesome because it is more or less a no-scope sniper rifle with faster firing speed, plus it still lets you zoom in more than normal by clicking R3.  The boost machine gun is more or less the same machine gun...yeah.  The laser is basically a powerful beam of energy you shoot, but instead of using ammo, it uses up your suit energy.  The pistol and laser should have made it in the game by default.

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #493 on: October 23, 2010, 10:46:16 PM »
The QTE against the two bogeys was awesome. There should have been more of those in the game, like Bayonetta vs. Jeanne. Does the gme give me my final score after te credits? I am waiting so I can post my stats.
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #494 on: October 23, 2010, 10:48:29 PM »
Here are my final score:

Space Score: 10240
Total Score: 310490
Mission Time: 5:05:34
Cover Usage: 10.31%
Statues found: 33
Wounded Assisted: 30
Kills: 1084
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #495 on: October 23, 2010, 10:55:47 PM »
wow, enemy placement does change on higher difficulty.  I'm playing through 2.3 to make that one mech stand up and it is different on normal.

also, the dlc gamestop preorder weapons should have been in the game proper.  The armor pistol is awesome because it is more or less a no-scope sniper rifle with faster firing speed, plus it still lets you zoom in more than normal by clicking R3.  The boost machine gun is more or less the same machine gun...yeah.  The laser is basically a powerful beam of energy you shoot, but instead of using ammo, it uses up your suit energy.  The pistol and laser should have made it in the game by default.

Yeah, I don't like the idea of DLC weapons at all. Now the playing field is completely uneven, especially if the weapons are good. distinguished mentally-challenged.

Enemy placement is different, yeah. There's more enemies + many of them are higher rank. It's a textbook example of a properly designed difficulty mode. No lazy bullshit of adding modifiers to the existing game and calling it a day.

I wonder if the placement is different for each mode? Like if casual is different from normal, and hard is different from god hard, etc. I wonder how far they went with it. I've only played normal and God Hard.
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #496 on: October 23, 2010, 10:56:47 PM »
Replaying on Casual now to cleanup and get the stupid statues... only 3 more Challenges left too
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #497 on: October 23, 2010, 11:09:54 PM »
wow, enemy placement does change on higher difficulty.  I'm playing through 2.3 to make that one mech stand up and it is different on normal.

also, the dlc gamestop preorder weapons should have been in the game proper.  The armor pistol is awesome because it is more or less a no-scope sniper rifle with faster firing speed, plus it still lets you zoom in more than normal by clicking R3.  The boost machine gun is more or less the same machine gun...yeah.  The laser is basically a powerful beam of energy you shoot, but instead of using ammo, it uses up your suit energy.  The pistol and laser should have made it in the game by default.

Yeah, I don't like the idea of DLC weapons at all. Now the playing field is completely uneven, especially if the weapons are good. distinguished mentally-challenged.

Enemy placement is different, yeah. There's more enemies + many of them are higher rank. It's a textbook example of a properly designed difficulty mode. No lazy bullshit of adding modifiers to the existing game and calling it a day.

I wonder if the placement is different for each mode? Like if casual is different from normal, and hard is different from god hard, etc. I wonder how far they went with it. I've only played normal and God Hard.

I only played normal and hard, but an example is in 2.3, there are no enemies on that higher balcony shooting down on you.  there are only like two ro three on the ground.

the only achievements I think are tricky will be the kill 4 enemies at the same time with that lock on laser and the two romanov ones (brutality and killing two only with melee one after the other).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 11:12:11 PM by Linkzg »

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #498 on: October 23, 2010, 11:13:27 PM »
Nah man. Do Challenge 1 for the Laser. You spawn next to a Laser, and the first wave is nothing but robots.

For the 2 Romanovs. Do Act 4... the one where you're in the forest. There is a bit where it's nothing but 2 drill Romanovs. Just take it slow and melee (do not shoot... you cant)

For the brutality one just use a Disc Launcher (shoot them with it or melee them)
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #499 on: October 23, 2010, 11:18:24 PM »
disc launcher can take their limbs off without killing them? that kind of makes sense.  I've been trying with the sniper rifle and AR but they die before the limbs come off.  yeah, thanks.  I'll try it out.  I was thinking challenge 1 would be the best for laser if it wasn't changed from the demo.

other than that, the only annoying one was killing the enemy in 5.1 before it moved to the bottom level.  I swear I would get to the bottom of his health, then he'd jump down to piss me off.  Then I remembered I had stun grenades (which I wasn't using because I wanted to level them up lol) and just spammed him like crazy.

Beezy

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #500 on: October 23, 2010, 11:27:57 PM »
I just tried a challenge for the first time. Shit is ridiculous. I got up to the boss once and I died. I think I'm gonna beat the game on hard before I fuck with these again.

The QTE against the two bogeys was awesome.
seriously

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #501 on: October 23, 2010, 11:33:14 PM »
Challenge 2 and 3 are much easier than 1, since there's places to hide.
fat

Beezy

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #502 on: October 23, 2010, 11:42:20 PM »
Anyone else here doesn't use grenades as much as they should? I always forget about them.

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #503 on: October 23, 2010, 11:45:39 PM »
I dont use regular Grenades but EMPs are very good in the Challenges. The problem is theres no place to pick them up on Challenge 2 and 3 so you have to be careful and hope an enemy drops them.
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #504 on: October 24, 2010, 12:23:39 AM »
I use grenades once in a while. It depends entirely on the fight. If there's a giant group of robots, I may toss a nade at them, but if I feel like I can kill them with my assault rifle and ARS, I'll go for that instead since I believe it earns more points.

There was one fight I just did that was driving me nuts. Either 3-2 or 3-3 on God Hard, the stage where three drilling machines come out of the gruond and then you have to fight that sawblade tank boss. On God Hard, the ONLY type of enemy that comes out of drill lifts are the gold robots, and ONE bullet from them puts you into overheat. Two is death. Once the boss comes they all group up into the fountain area, so I naded the fucking shit out of them.

God Hard is as hard as Master Ninja in NG2 imo. Some of these fights are extreeeeeeme.
BiSH

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #505 on: October 24, 2010, 02:17:55 AM »
Just got 52700 points on 3-7. :teehee

Over twice as much as the person in 2nd place. Done for tonight. Should be able to finish up God Hard tomorrow. The later missions of act 3 were all pretty smooth thankfully. There's only been a handful of really tough fights, so yeah I don't think this is quite Master Ninja level. Still a stiff challenge.
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #506 on: October 24, 2010, 02:34:41 AM »
lol. only one person has beat it on God Hand. and his score is negative 275000
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #507 on: October 24, 2010, 02:45:44 AM »
Yeah, I was just looking at that. His stats show that he spent like 5 hours on one mission and got negative 270,000 points on it or something. Weird.
BiSH

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #508 on: October 24, 2010, 04:34:31 AM »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

I can't stop playing this. Fuck, the only other games this gen that I've felt this way about are Ninja Gaiden 2, Demon's Souls, and Street Fighter 4. And to a lesser extent, Bayonetta. Off to Act 4 I go.
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #509 on: October 24, 2010, 04:59:52 AM »
The statues are so blahhhh why are these even in. I guess some guy in Jyapon has 1000 on it now.
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #510 on: October 24, 2010, 06:54:57 AM »
The maximum amount of useless collectibles I can put up with is about 20-30. Games that have 100+ need to fuck off.

I haven't tried the challenges yet, but all of the other achievements seem fairly easy. I don't think getting 1000 on this will be too rare. Also, some fights on act 4 are insanely hard. Fuck the BFA fights on God Hard, and fuck this other fight I barely beat. 3x second rank drill romanovs, 4 snipers, and 1 turret. gl hf

I'm pretty sure I woke my neighbors up by screaming FUCKING FUNNELS at 5am.

:patel
BiSH

Beezy

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #511 on: October 24, 2010, 07:48:38 AM »
I'm pretty sure I woke my neighbors up by screaming FUCKING FUNNELS at 5am.

:patel
:lol

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #512 on: October 24, 2010, 04:55:09 PM »
Oh man the Crystal Viper glitched in Challenge 4, so I didnt have to do shit but sit back and peg him.
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #513 on: October 24, 2010, 05:17:54 PM »
The 2nd Viper fight on god hard was a lot of fun. I take back my comment about it being a bad fight.

Also, no wonder only one person has beaten God Hard. 5-3 is the hardest battle I've ever seen in a 3D game. Fucking borderline impossible.
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #514 on: October 24, 2010, 05:27:38 PM »
Only 1 more Challenge then 1000... Challenge 6 unlocks when you do all 5. Takes place at 3-2, no places to hide (maybe some small ledges).

First wave - regular RIs, Crystal Viper

Second wave - regular RIs, some grenadiers (maybe a sniper? couldnt tell), helicopter RIs, Bogey

Killed the Bogey... then I got pegged by some sniper when I was trying to roll away to some hiding spot
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 05:36:24 PM by demi »
fat

Rman

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #515 on: October 24, 2010, 05:36:34 PM »
Still not feeling this game, demi?

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #516 on: October 24, 2010, 05:45:11 PM »
Nah, I still dont think its any different from Gears.
fat

Rman

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #517 on: October 24, 2010, 05:59:03 PM »
That's what I felt like about the demo.  I have it coming from GameFly anytime soon, so we'll see. 

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #518 on: October 24, 2010, 06:05:05 PM »
The lock-on for the Rocket Launcher is so shit. If you go slo-mo, it locks onto one enemy but you cant change it. So you are forced to quickly roll back out to change your target.

Keep getting my asshole flexed on Wave 4...

Ninja RIs, Balls, 2 BIAs (scorpions), and a couple flying turrets RIs

The statue gets destroyed so no hiding there~
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 06:09:42 PM by demi »
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #519 on: October 24, 2010, 07:03:09 PM »
Made it to Wave 5... a bunch of Balls and two bogeys. At least thats all I could see before I got my asshole raped. There was barely any weapons left to use. Why do they even give me a sniper rifle... what use does that gun even have
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #520 on: October 24, 2010, 07:25:51 PM »
Oh my god I was SO CLOSE :rofl

I almost killed 1 bogey but the AI decided to just shove both cocks in my asses. I had zero breathing room.
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #521 on: October 24, 2010, 07:29:14 PM »
so I take it that it's harder than the final bosses on hard?

 :-\  / :hyper

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #522 on: October 24, 2010, 07:31:10 PM »
I was so close to being first in the US to 1000 the game, fuuuuuck I'm so pissed. I will do it. I can get to Wave 5 consistently now, I just have to make sure to pack TONS OF FUCKING ROCKETS
fat

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #523 on: October 25, 2010, 12:19:00 AM »
Well, God Hard is appropriately named. These two bogies have been double stuffing my asshole for about 6 hours today. And I love it.

:bow Game of the Generation :bow2

Games like Vanquish are why I play video games.
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #524 on: October 25, 2010, 12:28:00 AM »
i fucking hate it, i want my 1000 so i can clear my queue. i also want to see how many people finished Challenge 6. i can view God Hard scores, but not Challenge scores? ooook
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #525 on: October 25, 2010, 12:42:40 AM »
I think this is one of the only JAPs to do it so far.

[youtube=560,345]Y3emuURm3jc[/youtube]

Using LFE against the balls is a great idea... no clue it could kill in one hit
fat

The Sceneman

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #526 on: October 25, 2010, 12:49:51 AM »
god if this game is flexing demi and iconoclast I know it's FUCKING HARD
#1

iconoclast

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #527 on: October 25, 2010, 01:31:17 AM »
i figured i'd go give the challenges a shot since i'm tired of getting raped by the bogies on god hard. played through the first 4, they're pretty fun. oddly enough i'm in 10th place on the leaderboards for challenges 2, 3, and 4. consistency. 8)
BiSH

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #528 on: October 25, 2010, 01:50:18 AM »
I think I'm like 500th cause I dont even give a fuck
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #529 on: October 25, 2010, 02:26:14 AM »
what is that guy doing at 40 seconds? short slides don't deplete your bar?

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #530 on: October 25, 2010, 03:11:36 AM »
Well, I got down to one bogey, with about a quarter of life left. And died.
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #531 on: October 25, 2010, 04:04:42 PM »
I FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID ITI FUCKING DID IT
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #532 on: October 25, 2010, 04:05:42 PM »
ONLY 6 PEOPLE HAVE FINISHED CHALLENGE 6 (incl. me)
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #533 on: October 25, 2010, 04:06:22 PM »
did it move?

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #534 on: October 25, 2010, 04:08:12 PM »
I AM HE FIRST 1000 IN THE USA

Everyone is from Japan, and one from France

ZERO from USA. I CLAIM FIRST 1000 on VANQUISH
fat

Beezy

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #535 on: October 25, 2010, 04:15:28 PM »
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 04:29:41 PM by Beezy »

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #536 on: October 25, 2010, 04:16:14 PM »
America is ranked 3rd in the only thing that matters  :'(

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #537 on: October 25, 2010, 04:17:51 PM »
Some other guy on X360A says he beat it too but he aint on the leaderboard. IF YOU AINT ON THE LEADERBOARD YOU AINT SHIT

I claim 1st, nothing anyone can do about that
fat

demi

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #538 on: October 25, 2010, 04:21:22 PM »
Way ahead of you

Leaderboard pic of the Oceanic Six

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2720/hpim1420.jpg

Can someone post that pic in the GAF thread?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 04:24:07 PM by demi »
fat

cool breeze

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Re: Shinji Mikami's Gears of War (a.k.a. Vanquish)
« Reply #539 on: October 25, 2010, 04:25:03 PM »
can you check leaderboards if you haven't unlocked challenge 6 yet? I can check how many there are on the PS3