Author Topic: The Official Psychoanalysis GAF Thread  (Read 5953934 times)

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22860 on: June 12, 2012, 02:13:24 AM »
There are totally games with good writing, but Braid and Bioshock are not them.
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BlueTsunami

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22861 on: June 12, 2012, 02:23:18 AM »
Like Xenogears
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Purple Filth

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22862 on: June 12, 2012, 02:31:12 AM »

BlueTsunami

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22863 on: June 12, 2012, 02:34:05 AM »


Quote
“Chu have heard that it hath been said, chu shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto chu, Love your enemies, bless them that curse chu, do good to them that hate chu, and pray for them which despitefully use chu, and persecute chu;”—Matth-Chu 5:43-44
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etiolate

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22864 on: June 12, 2012, 02:52:42 AM »
Writing in games isn't about plot. Hell, good writing itself is not entirely about plot.

For games, it's about the experience of the narrative, and the experience and feel of the story, be they the events, the gathering of information or other such alike things. Comparing it to a book is rough, because the experience of reading is not a vastly explored part of prose. A writer cannot so easily account for when and where you turn the page. The closest thing is the effect of voice and world building upon the reader.

For a small example, there isn't much a plot to a game like Limbo, but it feels like it's about something and it conveys that through the experience of playing the game. You could assemble a plot yourself through the experience of the game and tell your idea of the story, though that story is never fully present to be shown. In a way, game narrative is about the experience that leads to the story, rather than something like writing and staging the story. In a novel, perhaps you try to describe a never ending limbo. In a film, you show a weird place of limbo. In Limbo, the limbo is the cyclical nature of the game, where the end of the level never really occurs, where information is only that which you can discern from tepid, scattered and sometimes confusing clues.

T-Short

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22865 on: June 12, 2012, 03:40:17 AM »
地平線

etiolate

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22866 on: June 12, 2012, 04:46:57 AM »
:lol

magus

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22867 on: June 12, 2012, 05:02:40 AM »
i don't know why people get all snobby when it comes to videogames stories,if a CSI or Dr.house episode is good enough for you so is something like phoenix wright

if you want a game with a bad plot go play metroid other m
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tiesto

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22868 on: June 12, 2012, 08:45:58 AM »
Thanks for proving my point.
The thing is that in Braid the atom bomb itself is a metaphor for a certain kind of knowledge. You've been chasing some deep form of understanding all your life, and what I think you've found is that questing after that knowledge brings alienation with it. The further you've gone down that road, the further it's taken you from other people. So the knowledge is ultimately destructive to your life, just like the atom bomb was—it's a kind of truth that has a cataclysmic impact. You thought chasing that knowledge would make you happy, but like Tim, part of you eventually wished you could turn back time and do things over again.

basically, the short form plot of a good hundred godawful b-list jrpgs

:bow b-list RPGs :bow2
^_^

Verdigris Murder

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22869 on: June 12, 2012, 08:52:12 AM »
I think the reason so many gamers spunk over shitty distinguished mentally-challenged simplistic plots in videogames, is that so many don't actually experience proper literature. Too busy reading childish crap from Japan, which usually has polymesmeric story lines about girls changing nappies of monkeys, and robots with big erections chasing nurses.
:{]

Kabouter

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22870 on: June 12, 2012, 09:16:09 AM »
i don't know why people get all snobby when it comes to videogames stories,if a CSI or Dr.house episode is good enough for you so is something like phoenix wright

if you want a game with a bad plot go play metroid other m

People don't generally try to hold up CSI or House episodes as profound and emotionally moving narratives.  Vidja games on the other hand...
Even then, I can't remember any game that I've played that had better writing than House M.D. did. Can you? And that was just a network TV show, and not one with especially amazing writing.

Momo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22871 on: June 12, 2012, 09:21:37 AM »
Even then, I can't remember any game that I've played that had better writing than House M.D. did. Can you? And that was just a network TV show, and not one with especially amazing writing.
I think Broken Sword handily beats House M.D.

Great Rumbler

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22872 on: June 12, 2012, 09:49:05 AM »
Someone's going to say "Planescape: Torment" eventually, so it might as well be me!
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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22873 on: June 12, 2012, 09:59:07 AM »
Besides most videogame writers being horrible, games imo just aren't a good medium for telling stories period. Experiencing a world, okay but the control the author has over the story progression just isn't there like in the traditional mediums.
Gulp

benjipwns

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22874 on: June 12, 2012, 10:05:41 AM »
Besides most videogame writers being horrible, games imo just aren't a good medium for telling stories period. Experiencing a world, okay but the control the author has over the story progression just isn't there like in the traditional mediums.
Final Fantasy VII is another game that disagrees with this anti-gaming mindset.

Eel O'Brian

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22875 on: June 12, 2012, 10:15:51 AM »
I remember certain sections of video game stories, and the writing in those bits.

Like the side quest in Fallout 3 where the old lady in the secluded shack wants you to find her sister's violin. She gives you her dead husband's Magnum pistol to help you out.  Along the way you find out the horrible shit that happened to her sister in the vaults.  When you return the violin to the old lady she plays for you, and after that there's a radio station you can tune in on your Pipboy and hear her play.  I thought that was a nice, solid piece of writing that gave you a sense of the world you were in, a bit of tragedy and a bit of sweet sentimentality.

Or the bit at the end of Uncharted 2 where Elena is teasing Drake, asking him if he would have cried if she'd really died, as the scene fades away. It was a funny and sweet way to wrap things up for characters you'd grown to care a little about during the game.

But yeah, for the most part, writers on video games have to churn out hundreds of pages of script, which is double or triple the amount of script over the average TV show or movie (and with double the amount of problems to take into account).  They're lucky if they hit 20% "good."
sup

Brehvolution

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22876 on: June 12, 2012, 10:46:37 AM »
That's why I like sports games. I write my own stories. :pimp
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Takao

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22877 on: June 12, 2012, 10:48:02 AM »
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38781677&postcount=296

Keep fighting the good fight Takao-chan

I knew that post was going to show up here, haha.

Momo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22878 on: June 12, 2012, 10:58:44 AM »
Someone's going to say "Planescape: Torment" eventually, so it might as well be me!
I was going to say that, but realized everyone else will so I just said Broken Sword instead :lol

nudemacusers

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22879 on: June 12, 2012, 11:17:31 AM »
the pikmin 3 multiplayer thread... my god... battered spouses all up in there
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Broseidon

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22880 on: June 12, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
I need links!  :D
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Huff

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dur

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22882 on: June 12, 2012, 12:01:53 PM »
Nintendo could take a dump in a box and call it Pikmin 3 and those people would praise them for it. What a bunch of creeps.

nudemacusers

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22883 on: June 12, 2012, 12:04:39 PM »
I need links!  :D
Oops, thought I pasted it in.

Pikmin is complex and special. So many units!
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Joe Molotov

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22885 on: June 12, 2012, 12:53:55 PM »
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38781983&postcount=30

 :cookiem

How many objects were in Starcraft? Like 3 or something, right? And those were 1998 objects, a lot easier to keep track of than TRU-HD (720p) objects today.
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Vertigo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22887 on: June 12, 2012, 01:04:34 PM »
The utter desperation of Wii U fans to put a brave face on Nintendos awful E3 showing is such that even EA announcements are treated as things worthy of being posted along with all kind of theories.

Quote
Reassuring for some i guess that EA is considering the Wii U as a real next-gen system :p About this partnership, what could it be, Origin on Wii U ? It's also intriguing that it seems several games announcements are kept for this summer. Combined with the quasi-absence of Wii U online services this E3 (and as i said in the speculation threads, third-parties were left in a vague state about the OS, the online, the dashboard, until recently), it could point toward a presentation of this part of the system before the fall.
And their promises of a ME3 version taking advantage of the console features are interesting.

About the two titles to be disclosed, a proper reveal of Madden ? A Battlefield ? MOH warfighter ? What's your take, what you wish to see from EA on Wii U ?

Me ? I want Wing Commander Wii U ! (a man can dream) Sim City ! C&C Generals 2 !

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478099

Joe Molotov

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22888 on: June 12, 2012, 01:09:13 PM »
The utter desperation of Wii U fans to put a brave face on Nintendos awful E3 showing is such that even EA announcements are treated as things worthy of being posted along with all kind of theories.

Quote
Reassuring for some i guess that EA is considering the Wii U as a real next-gen system :p About this partnership, what could it be, Origin on Wii U ? It's also intriguing that it seems several games announcements are kept for this summer. Combined with the quasi-absence of Wii U online services this E3 (and as i said in the speculation threads, third-parties were left in a vague state about the OS, the online, the dashboard, until recently), it could point toward a presentation of this part of the system before the fall.
And their promises of a ME3 version taking advantage of the console features are interesting.

About the two titles to be disclosed, a proper reveal of Madden ? A Battlefield ? MOH warfighter ? What's your take, what you wish to see from EA on Wii U ?

Me ? I want Wing Commander Wii U ! (a man can dream) Sim City ! C&C Generals 2 !

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478099

First reply nailed it:

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Huff

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dur


Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22892 on: June 12, 2012, 01:40:04 PM »
Momo, he linked posts that were all just like one sentence and/or stupid reaction gifs.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22893 on: June 12, 2012, 01:42:52 PM »
It gets worse later in the thread when an "actual developer" is saying its okay because its really hard to code for online

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38785262&postcount=199
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38786485&postcount=248
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38802802&postcount=533

I think that sums up Nintendo's attitude perfectly.  I imagine it is hard to do that kind of stuff and knowing that their waterhead supporters will buy whatever Nintendo slides out of their asses, why bother making the effort?

Although it kind of works against their "empathy" model of continuous online interaction but hey, this is Nintendo we're talking about here.  Just keep the bar of expectations as low as possible and watch in awe as Nintendo and their fans try their hardest to limbo under it.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 01:45:46 PM by The Experiment »
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Momo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22894 on: June 12, 2012, 01:44:03 PM »
5 clicks is more effort than ninthings deserve :-\

But because I cannot resist the draw of the oppression carnival, I read them anyway. I don't think they will change anytime soon, and even if they do a new influx of nintendo camplings will happily take their place :yuck

Great Rumbler

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22895 on: June 12, 2012, 01:48:00 PM »
It gets worse later in the thread when an "actual developer" is saying its okay because its really hard to code for online

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38785262&postcount=199

Quote
As a programmer I will defend anyone's decision not to put online in their game. Nothing can drain the fun out of coding as efficiently as having to sync everything over the network. (Though to be honest I've hardly done any network code)

Neither has Nintendo. :smug
dog

Brehvolution

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22896 on: June 12, 2012, 01:52:35 PM »
It gets worse later in the thread when an "actual developer" is saying its okay because its really hard to code for online

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38785262&postcount=199
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38786485&postcount=248
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38802802&postcount=533

Quote
In regards to NSMBU, is there actually any good platformer with good online? I can't really think of any (Little Big Planet doesn't count as either)

LBP doesn't count cause it would render your point moot.
©ZH

Momo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22897 on: June 12, 2012, 01:56:27 PM »
Didnt that crappy DD Castlevania have 8 player MP or something?

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22898 on: June 12, 2012, 02:08:57 PM »
Didnt that crappy DD Castlevania have 8 player MP or something?

Well, 6 player MP but it doesn't count.
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Brehvolution

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22899 on: June 12, 2012, 04:15:09 PM »
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478047

:violin
Just thinking about how much money I'll be saving.
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22900 on: June 12, 2012, 04:36:36 PM »
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478047

:violin
Just thinking about how much money I'll be saving.

Some of the responses in that thread are brutal.  I don't think I've seen this much backlash on a Nintendo device before, handheld or console.  Nintards are doing their best to spin this failure into a victory but it just isn't taking...
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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22901 on: June 12, 2012, 04:49:52 PM »
As not much of an online gamer myself, I still thinks its stupid.

That's precisely my position. I may never, ever play online Pikmin, or if I did, I'd probably play it once. However, it's fucking 2012. There are certain expectations I have of "next-gen" games on "next-gen" consoles, and not prioritizing launch titles to have online play when you kind of have something to prove is laughable.

Shadow Mod

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22902 on: June 12, 2012, 04:56:21 PM »
Come back from ban. GAF dies. Hahaha. Cool.

parallax

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22903 on: June 12, 2012, 04:57:29 PM »
Come back from ban. GAF dies. Hahaha. Cool.

its the way gaf is now. crashing hard is the name of the game apparently

thisismyusername

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22904 on: June 12, 2012, 10:20:22 PM »
It gets worse later in the thread when an "actual developer" is saying its okay because its really hard to code for online

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38785262&postcount=199

Quote
As a programmer I will defend anyone's decision not to put online in their game. Nothing can drain the fun out of coding as efficiently as having to sync everything over the network. (Though to be honest I've hardly done any network code)

Neither has Nintendo. :smug

Where is that ICE BURN smiley something awful has when I need it!?  :lol

As not much of an online gamer myself, I still thinks its stupid.

That's precisely my position. I may never, ever play online Pikmin, or if I did, I'd probably play it once. However, it's fucking 2012. There are certain expectations I have of "next-gen" games on "next-gen" consoles, and not prioritizing launch titles to have online play when you kind of have something to prove is laughable.

To be fair: No online is at least better than tacked on multiplayer that dies in a week (sup, Dead Space 2?)

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22905 on: June 12, 2012, 10:22:03 PM »
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pilonv1

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itm

EmCeeGrammar

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22907 on: June 12, 2012, 11:48:11 PM »
I think I understand mario as being a case of platformers have a hard time syncing stuff at a decent framerate because you cant 'cheat' with the positions of the players like fps and racing games do.  I play a lot of CoD and am very familiar with the concept of someone coming around the corner on their screen while my screen hasn't shown them yet coming around that same corner.  That half second difference usually means I'm dead or they're dead and there was nothing that could be done about it.  I seem to remember LBP and Splosion Man had co-op online that was often cited as laggy, although I  never personally played them.  With that understanding, I think the next smash is going to suffer from the exact same problems as the first brawl regarding lag, unless they make a special mode that disables everything but you and one other player fighting on a static stage with no items or something basic like that.

I personally wanted online in pikmin, and considering stuff like endless ocean and excitetruck and other random stuff nintendo put out had it I'm not sure why they didnt do some integration here.  Maybe they had it running on the old wifi connection network and they decided it was too much work to jerry rig it up to the new infrastructure, either way I'm bummed but not indignant.
sad

DCharlieJP

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22908 on: June 13, 2012, 12:09:26 AM »
Quote
think that sums up Nintendo's attitude perfectly.  I imagine it is hard to do that kind of stuff and knowing that their waterhead supporters will buy whatever Nintendo slides out of their asses, why bother making the effort?

well exactly - people think kissing the arse of a company or swallowing any old tripe is being "a good fan". It's not. If you are making excuses for your "team" then they'll never -EVER- improve.

People should demand more from Nintendo - it horrifies me that these people cheer on N profits and actively enjoy being sold undercooked hardware at a huge profit for N. That's cheering being short changed.

"These Mars Bars have halved in size, yet doubled in cost! .... HURRAY FOR MARS CORPORATION!! Oh man, look at them profits! OH YOU LIKE MY BAR, ITS SO TASTY!" :/

O=X

Shadow Mod

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22909 on: June 13, 2012, 12:12:46 AM »
Quote
think that sums up Nintendo's attitude perfectly.  I imagine it is hard to do that kind of stuff and knowing that their waterhead supporters will buy whatever Nintendo slides out of their asses, why bother making the effort?

well exactly - people think kissing the arse of a company or swallowing any old tripe is being "a good fan". It's not. If you are making excuses for your "team" then they'll never -EVER- improve.

People should demand more from Nintendo - it horrifies me that these people cheer on N profits and actively enjoy being sold undercooked hardware at a huge profit for N. That's cheering being short changed.

"These Mars Bars have halved in size, yet doubled in cost! .... HURRAY FOR MARS CORPORATION!! Oh man, look at them profits! OH YOU LIKE MY BAR, ITS SO TASTY!" :/

Sad thing is "demanding more" should be applied to everything but complacency and apathy are so cool.

EmCeeGrammar

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22910 on: June 13, 2012, 12:20:51 AM »
You guys are delirious if you think Nintendo would ever respond to ....er... demands.   They respond to sales reception like any publicly traded company does.
sad

Great Rumbler

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22911 on: June 13, 2012, 12:24:59 AM »
You guys are delirious if you think Nintendo would ever respond to ....er... demands.   They respond to sales reception like any publicly traded company does.

Operation Rainfall :smug
dog

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22912 on: June 13, 2012, 12:42:37 AM »
Demanding more means that you're a mad hater, green with jealousy over the phat bank that Iwata and Co. are raking in from their brilliant and innovative business plan.

Best just to be a mindless cheerleader; the louder they cheer, the harder it will be to tell how deep the Nintendo cock is burrowing into their collective asses.

Before blame space or any of the other one liner mongs come up with some inane quip about my hating of Nintendo, I intend to step up the hate and ridicule.  The Wii U showing was atrocious and Nintards are trying their hardest to spin this turkey into some fantastic device that exceeded even the highest of expectations.  Not everyone is impressed that yet another NSMB game (well, two NSMB games within a few months of each other) is getting made.
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22913 on: June 13, 2012, 12:53:42 AM »
I appreciate your concern.
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22914 on: June 13, 2012, 12:58:32 AM »
i just think you need to go to the circus or something.  maybe get a puppy?

I do have a dog:

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The Sceneman

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22915 on: June 13, 2012, 01:00:30 AM »
they've only had 8 years to work on Pikmin 3, online is a huge ask.
#1

The Sceneman

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22916 on: June 13, 2012, 01:03:12 AM »
Didnt that crappy DD Castlevania have 8 player MP or something?

Well, 6 player MP but it doesn't count.

The multi netcode was crappy at first and was sometimes very difficult to get a game going. Once the game started it was generally sweet. The multi was patched after a few weeks and was good after that.
#1

etiolate

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22917 on: June 13, 2012, 01:05:41 AM »
i just think you need to go to the circus or something.  maybe get a puppy?

I do have a dog:

(Image removed from quote.)

is that a hound dog?

PigSpeakers

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22918 on: June 13, 2012, 01:28:42 AM »
I dunno, I think I've seen some of the diehard ninthings on nintendo back down a bit, and actually express a lot of dismay at nintendo's E3 conference. Sure, there's still some ever-faithfuls and backtrackers, but really, I think once AbsoluteZero, Acebondage, Truth101 and a few others were banned, the crazy, passive aggressive train sort of petered out a bit.
ok.

Verdigris Murder

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Re: The Official ***** ***** ***** ***** about 503 Service Unavailable
« Reply #22919 on: June 13, 2012, 02:48:50 AM »
I just love the simmering resentment that bubbles away between Gfex and blame space. It's a bit like the relationship between Larry Sanders and Hank Kingsley.
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