The Legend Of Zelda Skyward Sword thread of cumbersome control 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.5

[Himu]

ahahahahah You have to use the wiimote to swing on a rope?!



Fuck this game

[TakingBackSunday]

complaining about motion gaming was cool back in 2005

oh and himu we've seen one dungeon.  the first dungeon of the game.  one that is already not nearly as linear as ANY of the dungeons we've seen in 3D zeldas :-|

keep fucking that butthurt chicken, himu

[Himu]

Not really. Nothing wrong with waggle so long as it doesn't try to substitute legitimate creative game design. Conservative use of waggle ala Twilight Princess wii turns out nicely. It improves things that need improving (aiming) while enhancing other things (sword fighting). By the end of TP, I forgot the game had waggle. That's how well implemented it was and that's how natural it felt to me, because it didn't really rely on it.

At this point, I'll gamefly Skyward Sword. If they release something that doesn't prove itself to be a canned waggle fest, maybe I'll buy it.

If it's anywhere close to Saints Row The Third's release I won't buy it anyways.

[Trent Dole]

It's kind of hard to get it up for a Gamecube game in 2011 even if it is Zelda.

[Tasty]

It's kind of hard to get it up for a Gamecube game in 2011 even if it is Zelda.

2/10

[Himu]

It does look outdated and I'm not talking about visuals in the least bit, purely from a gameplay standpoint.

[Tasty]

It does look outdated and I'm not talking about visuals in the least bit, purely from a gameplay standpoint.

Howso?

[Himu]

You kidding? Balancing across ropes? I haven't seen that before! Swinging on vines? Original! Lock-on combat? Oh man, I totally loved that back in 1998.

[TakingBackSunday]

what the fuck else are you going to do in a 3D zelda

looks to me that it's not zelda's fault anymore, it just sounds that you're ready to move onto more hardcore franchises.

[Himu]

Or I expect it to evolve with the times and reinvent shit like it used to.

[TakingBackSunday]

zelda was hardly ever a series of reinvention.  it was always more like "remember this shit?  here it is in more depth/better pixels/3d/cel-shaded."

[Tasty]

what the fuck else are you going to do in a 3D zelda

looks to me that it's not zelda's fault anymore, it just sounds that you're ready to move onto more hardcore franchises.

People just want Uncharted with Link, Ganon, and Zelda. 

[Himu]

When I say reinvent, I mean reinvent a whole genre.

Original Zelda -> innovation
Link to the Past -> something new altogether
Ocarina of Time -> 3d action adventure done right

This looks like the same shit its been since 1998, and not in a Dragon Quest "perfect the formula" way either. Even Zelda 2 is something fucking crazy. And this is without bringing up Majora's Mask!

[Himu]

what the fuck else are you going to do in a 3D zelda

looks to me that it's not zelda's fault anymore, it just sounds that you're ready to move onto more hardcore franchises.

People just want Uncharted with Link, Ganon, and Zelda. 

 

[TakingBackSunday]

When I say reinvent, I mean reinvent a whole genre.

Original Zelda -> innovation
Link to the Past -> something new altogether
Ocarina of Time -> 3d action adventure done right

This looks like the same shit its been since 1998, and not in a Dragon Quest "perfect the formula" way either. Even Zelda 2 is something fucking crazy. And this is without bringing up Majora's Mask!

I'm sorry, I don't find anything innovative gameplay wise in the zelda series other than zelda I, II, and majora's mask.  everything else has been a re-imagination of the zelda formula with respect to its current generation's strengths and restraints.

[Tasty]

what the fuck else are you going to do in a 3D zelda

looks to me that it's not zelda's fault anymore, it just sounds that you're ready to move onto more hardcore franchises.

People just want Uncharted with Link, Ganon, and Zelda. 

 

I knew it.

[Himu]

just the thought of that makes me SICK, andrex

[EmCeeGrammar]

Complaining about the waggle applications in this game and claiming TP had a somehow better application is disingenuous doomsaying.  A vertical motion or diagonal motion actually translating into the expected result is so obviously superior for achieving intuitive interaction within the game.  The pointing elements themselves don't require the sensor bar in Skyward Sword, further streamlining the use of pointing controls by removing the necessity of having to orient your person towards the screen.

And anyone saying this is the same old shit since 98 has not been paying attention to the cascade of game information we got at E3.  The upgrade system provides more rewards for exploring beyond arbitrary rupees.  Dungeons must be returned to and open new areas in Metroid fashion.  In addition we gots a siren pacman stealth dimension. Aaaaannnnd enemies have distinctive attack and defensive patterns that essentially makes them their own unique puzzle as opposed to : jump attack spin attack jump attack shenanigans that have dumbed down 3d zeldas forever.  The stalfos shown has ways to break your guard and devastate Link during stun.  The item selection system has been revamped into a quick realtime selection process that ,again, further streamlines your actions.  Oh, and there's a dash function finally, which is a boon to people like me who find older 3d zeldas the equivalent of maneuvering a geriatric through a briarpatch.  Skyloft has been slated as the spiritual successor to Clocktown with all of its sidequest baggage, and the skies are dotted with floating isles to explore ala Wind Waker.

You want to know the source of the apathy?  Its SD, it requires flicks of the wrist and won't inflate a gamerscore.

[Tasty]

just the thought of that makes me SICK, andrex

Then what do you want? Because it sure as hell ain't Zelda.

[Himu]

I assure you I want Zelda. But not the same Zelda I've been playing since 1998. Thankfully they're PROMISING it's different enough and that's what gives me hope.

[EmCeeGrammar]

you know what *is* the same old shit though, is a nintendo fan climbing on the cross

Isn't climbing on the cross more of a "me" thing?  I'm pretty sure what I said would be interpreted as poor poor nintendo is on the cross.  I think I may be a little mad at them though because I just remembered Advance Wars used to exist, but shhhhh don't tell anyone.

[cool breeze]

that dash/sprint ability does look great.  also how Link runs up the wall and transitions into climbing.  every actions looks quicker and smoother, right down to opening chests.

[Tasty]

that dash/sprint ability does look great.  also how Link runs up the wall and transitions into climbing.  every actions looks quicker and smoother, right down to opening chests.

Yuppers. Even the basic controls have been revamped in SS for the first time since OoT. Looks great.

[TakingBackSunday]

bububu dudes link's been runnin since a link to the past 

[EmCeeGrammar]

that dash/sprint ability does look great.  also how Link runs up the wall and transitions into climbing.  every actions looks quicker and smoother, right down to opening chests.

Exactly.  I think one of the main cornerstones that will be reminisced upon about Skyward Sword is how they made a 3d zelda that plays as fluid if not moreso than the 2d stuff.

[Himu]

i love the sprint/dash

[Tasty]

One thing I also want to comment on is the color scheme and enemy design (and environment design.) It's good looking obviously, but other than that I have to say it looks really "out there." Like, watching the posted dungeon footage, I kept thinking "this is like something that would have been in the manual to NES games, like Zelda 1 and 2." There's a boss that looks like a Hindu deity (many armed, like Kali), and it just evokes memories of what American artists would have created to evoke a feel of grand adventure in the 80s and early 90s.

Even stuff like Link slashing through the spiderweb at a specific angle, and subsequently getting stuck in it, seems to evoke that same feeling somehow. For me at least. The color scheme, as mentioned, helps all this. It's not all a certain blend of colors, the colors seem at first to conflict but end up creating a great style from the chaos. And this compliments that old 80's adventure feeling as well, I think.

[Himu]

I'm not getting 80s or 90s vibe. What the fuck

[Tasty]

I'm not getting 80s or 90s vibe. What the fuck

Probably just me then. But that's definitely the vibe I get.

[magus]

wow you guys are talking about zelda being always the same shit? what's next? the sky is blue? the water is wet? nintendo announce another pokemon sequel?

waggle fest

i think i might be the only man on the planet who's more excited that he's getting some use out of his motion+ than the fact that "OMG ZERUDA!!1!"

[magus]

i also got myself red steel 2 and flingsmash just to use the thing....

RED STEEL 2
AND FLINGSMASH



you know the thing that pisses me to death is how the motion+ goes totaly out of synch everytime you give it 3-4 good consecutive swings yet there are a lot of games where they expect me to waggle like a champ

[Cerveza mas fina]

Did all creative people that love to make hardcore games leave Nintendo?

so this is what it's like for my parents when i talk about the 60s and 70s

[Herr Mafflard]

I'm liking the art style and color palette a lot; enemy designs and environments look more interesting. Conversely, TP looks dreary and downright boring in comparison.

Smoother animation transitions aren't innovation, it's the norm now and should be expected from all third-person games with a budget. The motion plus combat stuff looks interesting, if only for swapping out one arbitrary combat model for another slightly less so.

[EmCeeGrammar]

you own a motion plus

Not all of us are Big Gimping, sir.

I own two Wii+ controllers myself.

[Himu]

wow you guys are talking about zelda being always the same shit? what's next? the sky is blue? the water is wet? nintendo announce another pokemon sequel?

waggle fest

i think i might be the only man on the planet who's more excited that he's getting some use out of his motion+ than the fact that "OMG ZERUDA!!1!"

The problem isn't Zelda being the same shit. The problem is Zelda not evolving while at the same time shoving waggle in our faces.

[Phoenix Dark]

zelda was hardly ever a series of reinvention.  it was always more like "remember this shit?  here it is in more depth/better pixels/3d/cel-shaded."

Real talk.

I've never seen a Zelda game with less hype. Even Wind Waker garnered a host of awards, good reviews, etc alongside the criticism/backlash.

[Himu]

If you don't think the Zelda has never been about reinvention or innovation of the action adventure genre you're probably the same age as Andrex or haven't played many games.

[TakingBackSunday]

Himu, this is me you're talking to. 

[demi]

Who wants to donate?

http://toledo.craigslist.org/vgm/2514232796.html

[Himu]

I personally found at one point that Zelda was THE action adventure series. Its influence is vast. Every time Zelda did something neat, someone did something similar and soon, everyone was doing it. It happened with the original Zelda. It happened with Zelda 2 and rpg side scrollers. It happened with Link to the Past and its vast dungeons and puzzle solving. It happened with OoT and its 3d world that no 3d game before ever saw. When I think of Zelda, I think of a franchise that yes, sticks to a familiar formula, but very often comes up with new ways to solve old problems or new ways to play them period, games like LttP, Zelda 2, OoT.

I look at Zelda SS and it just looks...so safe. And then I look at games like Fallout: New Vegas with huge sprawling worlds with tons of shit to do and see with a keen attention to detail, and it's like, when did Zelda start feeling this underwhelming?

I was fine with it when I played Twilight Princess, because Twilight Princess felt like a swan song in many ways, a tribute so to speak. Even by the end of that game I found myself growing tired of the same old.

I'll be playing it no doubt, but it's kinda disappointing after Mario Galaxy that, as far as I've seen, Nintendo seems to be hamming it up with this new Zelda.

[Oblivion]

zelda was hardly ever a series of reinvention.  it was always more like "remember this shit?  here it is in more depth/better pixels/3d/cel-shaded."

Real talk.

I've never seen a Zelda game with less hype. Even Wind Waker garnered a host of awards, good reviews, etc alongside the criticism/backlash.

SS ain't out yet, PD.

But I agree that the hype for it is abysmal for Zelda standards. Hell, even I'M not that excited for it, and I'm a Zelda taco par excellance. For me it isn't even that I share the complaints that people have about Zelda not evolving enough or whatever the fuck, but after TP, I just don't have much confidence in Nintendo making a well rounded Zelda experience anymore. Now, mind you I'll still get it day 1, but this is probably the lowest level of hype I've had for a presumably GOOD Zelda game ever.

Also, I know the game's going for an impressionist art style, but does anyone else think it looks blurry as fuck?

[magus]

himuro is sounding like the biggest ndork ever,like bigger than brandnew

[TakingBackSunday]

I'm glad I'm not super hyped about this: hype almost always results in disappointment.

[Tasty]

himu are you there

it's me margaret

I actually read that book.

Had a good laugh with my friends. We did like dramatic readings, was awesome.

[recursivelyenumerable]

looks awesome to me, music in the trailers is booooooring though. they need to make a bunch of clones of Masashi Hamauzu and get them to compose everything ever.

[Tasty]

looks awesome to me, music in the trailers is booooooring though. they need to make a bunch of clones of Masashi Hamauzu and get them to compose everything ever.

Well it's Zelda's Lullaby backwards, kind of an odd choice but I think the latest version (in the Comic Con trailer) sounds pretty good, if unexciting as you said.

[TakingBackSunday]

I don't have many fears regarding the music.  Kondo with a few tracks, but Mahito Yokota is the main composer and they're following a similar route they had with the Galaxy games: collaborative compositions with most of the tracks a hybrid with orchestral instruments and MIDI instruments.  If we got something as quality as these:

[youtube=560,345]keeM4wFRJWk[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]u9oRXhtotuc[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]Y54ZzfZ0udo[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]tzVVlxriIcU[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]Gadk8EFVUkI#movie_player[/youtube]

Or Kondo's best work since, well, he started:
[youtube=560,345]qW7pdX7pDM0[/youtube]

...then, I'm not really worried.  Yokota is I'd wager one of the strongest composers the industry, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Great Rumbler]

[youtube=560,345]vLXL3NY3uBo[/youtube]

[TakingBackSunday]

Recursive, watch this video (start at around 1:47)

[youtube=560,345]2gZzD9FnWlY&feature=view_all&list=PLDA9833CFCDA8F275&index=88[/youtube]

The music there is pretty tits, don't you think?

[Tasty]

I looove that they added the combo chimes (back?) in.

[TakingBackSunday]

They've been in every Zelda game since Wind Waker.

[Tasty]

They've been in every Zelda game since Wind Waker.

Right right, my memory is failing me. Still sound great though.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Not all of us are Big Gimping, sir.

I own two Wii+ controllers myself.

you owning them surprises me not a little

i just have to wonder what a normal gamer would buy them for

Many sports games support it.  Its not that hard to imagine what one owner would do with multiples.

[Tasty]

I don't have a M+ yet... probably gonna get the gold Wiimote bundle.

[Bildi]

Fuck if I want to get another stupid accessory just to play Zelda.

If the Wii U comes with a M+ controller I'll pickup a Wii U cheap one day and catch up on all the Zelda games to that point.  First console Zelda game I won't play at launch.

[cool breeze]

I bought wii sports resort so I have one of the motion plus things.  Worked well in that and Red Steel 2, except for the damn wire.  I don't know if I'll buy a new remote with it built in unless there is like a Zelda bundle or a wireless nunchuck.

wii sports resort oddly tests a lot of the waggle concepts that appear in skyward sword.  I just noticed using the bow even requires you to pull back the nunchuck, which is just superfluous and dumb and goes against what has been exciting me. 

I'm ok with waggle when it's an action that cannot be replicated with standard controls.  The precise sword combat sounds great, and I know it plays great from wii sports resort.  The bow pull back, flying the bird and beetle-item through tilt, and crap like that are waggle for the sake of waggle.  It detracts from the experience.  Again, I know that stuff plays poorly from wii sports resort.

really, though, who prefers holding c and pulling back on the nunchuck to just pressing c? it's against the otherwise streamlined design they seem to be going for. 

[Tasty]

I think the bird flying sounds like it did in TP, which worked pretty well and was only mildly annoying because of the enclosed space. With more polish, being made with motion in mind, and better fidelity, it should play pretty well.

The beetle sounds good to me, would not prefer to control it with an analog stick.

[T-Short]

Recursive, watch this video (start at around 1:47)

[youtube=560,345]2gZzD9FnWlY&feature=view_all&list=PLDA9833CFCDA8F275&index=88[/youtube]

The music there is pretty tits, don't you think?

Gameplay looks pretty awful here. Super jerky, mis-registered swordwaggles breaking the action up all the time. That music is overly dramatic and pompous for what is a 30sec battle with a distinguished mentally-challenged Stalfos. Also mixed too low so it gets drowned out by the dumb battle sounds. What a waste. lol

[magus]

see, the issue is that i don't imagine a normal gamer spends much time doing waggle sports with his or her friends

that seems to be the sole province of the yellow-breasted nintard, and i didn't think magoose was a nintard

waggle equal whimsy

and i love whimsy

[Herr Mafflard]

^ I was about to say, that sounds like every 3D Zelda ever.