Pallando will return in "Never Say Never Again"

[Bebpo]

Picking a random flower in the park is far more romantic and thoughtful than any random bouquet of flowers anyways. Picking a flower shows consideration. Buying flowers shows you hold money as a high esteem.

It wasn't a bouquet of flowers.  It was handpicked flowers that she likes and then hand-made art project of assembling them artfully around a bottle.  I don't just buy stuff for people.  If I bring cookies I bake them myself.  Anything I do is a result of time and effort and being thoughtful fwiw.

But I agree with you that it's broke, can't be fixed, and move on.

[Fresh Prince]

tbh sounds like she's calling the shots but being very nice bout it. tbh as a women she has more options than you do  so good sex isn't the be all and end all for her since grankly that's all you have.

[Himu]

Oh, okay. One of my girlfriends would buy me random shit and I hated it. We go to the movies, I need to go to Target because I need some medicine and she walks out with a watch for me as a gift. Why do I need a watch? I have a watch and a cell phone already. Then the next day she buys me a hat. I can't stand people who try to buy someone's love.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Maybe this whole online dating thing is just unnatural, superficial and too mechanical.

Likes and dislikes or even looks dont mean nothing if the real chemistry is not there and vice versa.

[Bebpo]

There are definitely things I could be doing differently and better in future situations with other girls.  My goal is to broken fuck up by broken fuck up figure out what I'm could do better next time.

For instance I've never gone straight to dating -> relationship.  Every girl I've dated, I've started as friends because I like to just talk to them like my guy friends and get to know them and then maybe something relationship-y forms from that.  I literally do-not-know how to flirt with someone -> go on a date, without the friendish conversationing between the two.

Then again I just don't know how to flirt.  Period.  Never learned, don't know where to pick it up.  I have no "opening lines" (which makes it tough for opening messages to strangers online, or walking up to a girl at a bar), instead I just talk about stuff and see how they respond.  

[Bebpo]

That's never happened to me though :X  And if I do nothing and live my life figuring something like that will happen...I'll be 60 and still posting in this thread 

[Bebpo]

I know, I'm just saying I've never looked at a girl's eyes where it's been clear that she's interested.  Maybe I just don't recognize it!  Would make things easier because then I could just put myself out in the world, and strike up a conversation with people who give off an interested vibe.

[Himu]

Women aren't interested innate. You have to MAKE them interested.

[Bebpo]

Even before you converse with them?  Yeah I don't understand how you do that.   

I like to think it's my conversational whimsy that gets people interested in me.

[Fresh Prince]

Not necessarily, himu. Every guy has their signs but as Spencer said direct eye contact, looking lost is another, straightening hair with her hand.

[Himu]

Well, of course. But I'm just saying. Don't sweat the small details. Not every woman is going to be interested.

[Mupepe]

Women aren't interested innate. You have to MAKE them interested.

What?  That's not true at all.

Also, for most guys there are no "opening lines".  Very few guys can pull off opening lines without looking like dbags.  Work with what's available.  I'm good at making jokes in person so I usually start off by making a joke about something around us and depending on how she responds I either drop it or proceed.  In fact, I even do it now on accident. 

My wife told me a few years back that I do it with every woman I meet whether it be a girl at the register, waitress or another girl in line.  I didn't believe her so she made me ask my friends and they all agreed I'm a big flirt.  I don't mean to.  It's just kinda second nature now.  Just stop being so worried about "saying the right thing" and talk to them like they're human.  They're not going to scream "rape" or something.

[Himu]

Even before you converse with them?  Yeah I don't understand how you do that.   

Body language, eye contact, standing firm and confident, smile. When you do eye contact, don't stare. Just glare, not like a creepo, but intensively. Do not blink. Smile. Then walk up to her and strike a conversation.

[Himu]

Women aren't interested innate. You have to MAKE them interested.

What?  That's not true at all.

Also, for most guys there are no "opening lines".  Very few guys can pull off opening lines without looking like dbags.  Work with what's available.  I'm good at making jokes in person so I usually start off by making a joke about something around us and depending on how she responds I either drop it or proceed.  

I mostly meant that hoping she's interested isn't going to get you far if you're not willing to make her interested.

[Mupepe]

Women aren't interested innate. You have to MAKE them interested.

What?  That's not true at all.

Also, for most guys there are no "opening lines".  Very few guys can pull off opening lines without looking like dbags.  Work with what's available.  I'm good at making jokes in person so I usually start off by making a joke about something around us and depending on how she responds I either drop it or proceed.  

I mostly meant that hoping she's interested isn't going to get you far if you're not willing to make her interested.

ah.  ok gotcha.

[Himu]

"Lines" are cheesy. Usually there will be something that can create a common link. Maybe she's got a book. Ask her about it. Maybe she's got a drink? Talk to her about it. Is she beautiful? Take up an act and make fun of dudes who try to get with beautiful women on a daily basis by sucking up to her and kissing her ass. Get her to laugh. There are no rules. Just work with what you got, it takes practice.

[tiesto]

RPGs are the best medicine for a broken heart.  Stat stat statting is rewarding, engrossing, and the stories are great escapism.

I need to rpg for a little before I get back to the dating scene ;_;

If you don't like someone dating is easy because when you drop them it doesn't hurt.
If you like someone then you are fuuucked when they drop you

But what's the point of dating someone you don't like?

Really? I had so much trouble finishing Lost Odyssey after a girl I was dating dumped me.  

I have relationship issues and am kind of at a standstill as to WTF I do. My girlfriend just turned 30 but doesn't really have much in the way of motivation... she works at a small company where she doesn't make a lot of money, doesn't have a lot of cash in savings, doesn't have a car, and is held back by her deadbeat family. But she always makes excuses whenever I suggest stuff like "go back to grad school" or "why not apply for some more jobs"? My mom is one of those overbearing Italian mothers, and she's constantly saying to me "you're so handsome, you have a great job, you can do sooooo much better... this girl is not gonna change, don't you get it?"

I think she's a good and extremely genuine person, she kinda "gets" me and puts up with my love of offbeat music and gaming, but I'm getting miffed at her lack of interest in self-improvement... in the 1.5 years since we started dating, I:

-took the Dale Carnegie Course to improve my social skills/public speaking/confidence
-signed up to have a mentor at work, to help give me career guidance (I am kinda lazy too and want to work on that)
-started learning XNA development
-learning how to cook decently
-bought a townhouse in one of the most expensive regions to live in

so I am trying as best as possible to help fix my flaws. I just wish she would meet me halfway.

[Himu]

Tiesto

[Bebpo]

Yeah it sounds like you're doing the right thing. 

[tiesto]

never in my entire dating history did i make anything even approximating the sort of absurd romantic gestures you're making. in fact, it would have seemed pretty creepo if i did! DEPENDENT MUCH? my more astute dates might have asked

Yup, I don't think I've ever done anything more romantic while still in the dating stages than give a girl a burned CD with one of my DJ mixes on it. Bebpo, as much as I'm weary of that whole "pussy on the pedestal" and internet pick-up-artist alpha male stuff... I think it's possible you can take a bit from it. Don't come across as needy and desperate, make it seem like you have your own shit going on, and don't be afraid to leave the girls hanging a bit/break off plans before they can.

Instead of looking how film characters get the women, look at friends/family who are successful with women and what you can learn from them... or even look at those who are unsuccessful with women, you can learn a lot what NOT to do.

And for "opening lines"... don't use them, they are cheesy, especially that Mystery open-with-a-neg crap like "nice nails, are they real?". Comment on something going on in your environment, or something you've noticed about the person (like a book they are reading)... I have a rather awkward and space-cadet friend, who gets mad phone #s, simply because he opens with real obvious situational stuff. He is Jewish and he was at a singles event on Passover, said to the girl "are you hungry since we are supposed to fast today?", and eventually got her #. Going up to girls and starting conversation is something that the majority of men don't do, so you already have an advantage. And if the girl likes something about you, it won't matter what you open with (provided it's not something insulting or racist lol).

[EmCeeGrammar]

I don't see why it has to be so complicated.  Unless you're an uggo who don't want uggo it ain't THAT hard to interface with girls.  Then again I'm pretty good at being tactfully honest, even so much as not being ashamed of my various neurosi enough to be open about my irrational emotions from time to time.  They're always good for a laugh. 
Its almost like some are searching for some dating catchall the same way they would try to master a vidyagame or some shit.

 I think its as easy as finding someone who likes to waste time and enjoy life in some of the same ways you do.  Pursuing self-improvement for the sake of alterior motives comes off as narcissitic and deemphasises the ideal of being a problem oriented person, as opposed to a self-centered ninny.  Said ninnys are usually not happy or confident people.

[Fresh Prince]

I think its as easy as finding someone who likes to waste time and enjoy life in some of the same ways you do.  Pursuing self-improvement for the sake of alterior motives comes off as narcissitic and deemphasises the ideal of being a problem oriented person, as opposed to a self-centered ninny.  Said ninnys are usually not happy or confident people.

I'm trying to make sense of this.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Its more of an attitude thing.  Is someone going to school because of an aspirational fantasy or because what field they are shooting for will have tangible benefits in the long run.  I.e., why DO people major in sociology?  Does one need a mortgage on a three bedroom home for practical reasons or is it subconciously being used as a status symbol?  Its often a fine line.

[Don Flamenco]

There are definitely things I could be doing differently and better in future situations with other girls.  My goal is to broken fuck up by broken fuck up figure out what I'm could do better next time.

For instance I've never gone straight to dating -> relationship.  Every girl I've dated, I've started as friends because I like to just talk to them like my guy friends and get to know them and then maybe something relationship-y forms from that.  I literally do-not-know how to flirt with someone -> go on a date, without the friendish conversationing between the two.

Then again I just don't know how to flirt.  Period.  Never learned, don't know where to pick it up.  I have no "opening lines" (which makes it tough for opening messages to strangers online, or walking up to a girl at a bar), instead I just talk about stuff and see how they respond.  

that may just be what you need...some break ups to chill you out.  Sounds counter-intuitive, but after a few failed attempts, you'll go from "woe is me" to "you're missing out on this fat lawyer money, biatch." (yeah, we both know lawyering has lost much of its prestige and value, but random girls still think it's a legitimate profession.)  

flirting is really nothing.  There are no lines or anything.  it's basically just cracking double entendres or innuendos and laughing about it.  Look for smiles and hair-twirling, those are like "START FLIRTING NOW" signs (or at least, signs that you're doing fine.)

i'm the same way with girls.  The "straight into dating/fucking" stuff is just clumsy to me, because then you have to backtrack and be like "whelp, we fucked, so lets see if we actually like each other via conversation."  Not to mention, dates with girls you don't know can feel like job interviews.  Maybe that's just hoity-toity professional girls in chicago.  regardless, huuuuge turn off.  

side rant about chicago girls:  the great part is that I have everything they want- money, security, a future, and I do want to have children.  So many girls in chicago think they've already got everything and that the guy has to prove his worth to them...NOPE.jpg.  

Had to dip into pools outside the U.S. because lennedsay is already married, so there are no good women left in the U.S. (just joking!!!)

[Fresh Prince]

Not it was more like the alternatives, 'narcisstic' and 'self centered ninny' are practically the same thing.

[Don Flamenco]

why DO people major in sociology? 

I fantasized of a life studying weird subcultures and their contexts within the societies they spring from.  but the field is so politically...polluted.  So if you don't want to study something that only serves to prove a leftist ideal, you're looked at as some kind of goof off who doesn't know where he should be.  

Anthropology probably would have been the better option.

i'm not even too sure of why sociology exists.  it's the black sheep of social sciences,  I think.


yeah, I know you had a different point, but i answered literally   

[chronovore]

Hmmm, maybe I rush things a bit much.  I've always felt the romance-y gestures were what you do pre-relationship because that's when it's all new and exciting to both people.  From my few relationship experiences, once I actually get in a stable relationship, much of the fun and excitement and romance dies away because you start to know everything about each other and the mystery is gone.

And yes, it's true I learned everything I know about romance and dating from hollywood because uh, when you grow up, where else are you supposed to learn it?  I see how the heroes do things in film and get inspired to be like them.

Practice on your own. Date. A lot. And talk to other real humans who date. A lot.

[Fresh Prince]

Isn't the problem that everybody he knows outside work\family is from the internet?

[Bebpo]

Yeah, I am talking to people who date a lot: You guys! 

I don't really have anyone to talk to in person.  I have a very small circle of IRL friends who are all busy with their own gfs/jobs and I don't see them often and I have no co-workers or soccer club or college buddies to talk to.  I have uh, me, myself, I, my EB buddies, and duckroll who lives in Singapore but we talk 24/7 and he's not really a women advice help person because of the whole culture over there being so different. 

I actually was a lot more social and conversational and good in groups in real life back when I was teen and worked minimum wage jobs with random strangers-who-became-buddies co-workers and had my high school hang out groups.  I was always surrounded by people and laughs and it kept me social.  After college, it was like 10 years of anti-social withdrawal from real life interactions and over the last 3 months I've started working to reverse all the negative damage it did, but it's going to take a while and I'm just slowly becoming sociable again.

I see it coming down to two ways here:

#1  - I'm a happy, emotionally stable person who is productive, creative, and gets along well with all his guy friends; I have lots of fun in life, play games, watch movies, talk with friends; go on adventures; etc...  Basically a life I enjoy.............when I turn off women completely and don't even give a second thought to girls, relationships and love.  I tend to fall back into this for long periods of time because it's easy to just ignore the entire female population and enjoy an independant solo life of enjoyment.

#2 - Instead of giving up, I finally decide I've had enough of pussyfooting around in the dating scene where I dip my toes in, get burned, and then retreat for a few years and repeat again; and that since I'm turning fucking 30, it's finally time for me to keep at it, never relent, treat it like a job and put the real effort in to meeting lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of women until I get comfortable interacting with them and then maybe at that point 3/6/9/12 months down the line I'll be ready to actually date someone.  I'm willing to go this route but god, it would be SO MUCH EASIER if I had a single person to do this with, you know, a guy wingman who would go to places with me and give me some support in making those first approaches until I finally get comfortable and over my anxiety.  It's probably BETTER if I just do it alone because it takes massive cahones and if I force myself to do it a bunch it'll build those up much more quickly, but it's just going to be fucking hard.  I've read the trick is to go up to 100 girls, 5 girls a day and just start conversations with them, and by the time you've done that 100 times you'll be able to do it normally when you see an attractive girl.  I want to do this, maybe tonight I'll go out and try to talk to 5 girls at a starbucks (not all in the same starbucks of course).  I think in general, online is a dead end and I'd like to check out meeting people in real life and see how that goes instead.   

[Fresh Prince]

#1 + prostitutes is a valid lifestyle option

[Bebpo]

But I don't need the physical interaction!  So it'd just be a waste of money.  Would rather wank and be solo than fuck random girls and be solo.

What I like out of the female kind is someone to hug, to spend time out with on a Saturday night, to be able to go to the movies with so you have someone to talk about the film afterwards with.  To cuddle while watching netflix streaming.  To go to concerts with.  Basically since all my guys friends have moved on and I don't have any to do this stuff with I want a girl who will be a best friend and we can do stuff together.

I'm not going to get that out of prostitutes, one night stands, or possibly people I pick up at a bar.  I don't need to have that stuff either, just if I am going to put any effort in for a relationship, that is what I want out of it.  I want the high school stuff, holding hands, hugging, kissing; don't really care about the adult stuff like sex, I mean I can hold my own on that and make the girl quite happy but it doesn't do much for me. 

[Fresh Prince]

But Bebpo you're talking about the oh god help me 'the first flourishes of love' not the nitty gritty of love and relationships. That stuff your talking about it rarely lasts forever. But you're right there's no point helping you unless you grow up and have realistic expectations of an adult relationship.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The thing with a dude who just oozes desperation is that it scares away the normal women and attracts the manipulative women who sees you as easy prey to exploit to their benefit.

Bebpuu~ reminds me a lot of my virginal self in the sense that I'd overanalyze everything that a woman said to me.  I'd break down her body language, what she said, how she said it, etc. and then try to interpret it.  I'm not saying her body language and whatnot isn't important but I wound up tangling myself in a self made web of bullshit that cost me pussy every time until I was 19, when I said "fuck it."  Being incredibly self conscious due to me being a fat ass had a lot to do with it, in hindsight.  You just have to stop being so self conscious and stop judging your love life based on movies or anime.  It will only lead to a string of shitty relationships.  The same goes to women who model their lives on Sex and the City or Twilight; they're never happy about their love lives because they're comparing it to fiction.  If I set a metric of my romantic relationships off of George Clooney, I'd be damn near suicidal because I know I couldn't never buy a woman her own island.  Instead, I have to reframe my standards as a middle class dode living in the midwest.

why DO people major in sociology?  

It's a major that lets people cruise the bars 3-5 nights a week.

[Don Flamenco]

why DO people major in sociology?  

It's a major that lets people cruise the bars 3-5 nights a week.

It's a trade off-- either a future or 4 years of cruising bars 3-5 nights a week. 

[lennedsay]

Oh Don... 


Just random thoughts on dating from a biological female...

Most girls want a guy who can and will gently keep them in check. All the guys I've really dated were either the "sensitive type" or complete assholes. The "sensitive" ones gave into everything I wanted (or what they thought I wanted), and when it was time for dinner, I'd ask where they'd want to go, and it was always, "Well, where ever you want to go!" No, tell me what you want like a grown up, or at least pose the question "hmmm... Chinese or seafood?" Don't be some wussy boy ready to go eat dog shit if I told you to. If my husband asks me where I want to go, I'll tell him I'm down for whatever, but here are my top picks. He does the same. None of this pussyfooting around about daily activities.

As far as gifts and gestures.... There's a fine line between cute/romantic and plain creepy. Cute/romantic = surprising with things that I want or need. Today, my husband had a half day. Did he go home? Nooooo he went and got food he knew I'd been craving all week, then picked me up from work for lunch, and we went to the park to eat. Was it fancy? No, it was fucking Chick-fil-A! But he knows I want to go for lunch sometimes and it's just far enough from work to deter me from going there. I needed food and I wanted Chick-fil-A, so it fulfilled requirements for cute/romantic. However, a guy you're not with writing a song about you and singing it to you or posting it online? Creepy. I'm sure some girls would be swooned, but the general consensus is that too much work for someone you're not actually with is creepy. With that said, I knew my husband lived in a house with all guys and only ate fast food when I met him, so our second or third date, I brought him and his roommates homemade gooey butter cake. Apparently those boys had a conversation over that gooey butter cake that he would marry me someday. But that's different, because good guys want a good wifey. And at that age, most girls they knew were just into getting drunk and being stupid. But if a guy brought me baked goods? I don't know about all that. Maybe if he cooked for me, or if we baked cookies together. But imagining a guy at home in his frilly apron is a bit much for me. (Sorry Bebpo) Plus there's something about cooking with someone... you really learn a lot about them, and either it's fun or it's unbearable.

[Himu]

What about inviting her over and cooking for her. No apron.

[Bebpo]

But Bebpo you're talking about the oh god help me 'the first flourishes of love' not the nitty gritty of love and relationships. That stuff your talking about it rarely lasts forever. But you're right there's no point helping you unless you grow up and have realistic expectations of an adult relationship.

So what you're saying is I have to put up with weeks/months early on of flirting and dinner and sex to get to the point where I can have someone to cuddle with and hug and be all sappy cute with?

I get what you're saying, but it just feels like so much effort and time just to have someone to care about.  

[Bebpo]

What about inviting her over and cooking for her. No apron.

See the other thing is that I am not vulgar at all, yet girls I talk to are always like bringing up vulgar jokes or dirty talk and I just....can't do it.  I don't even curse around women.  I open doors for them and let them order first.  I can't see myself ever making a penis joke or saying the word vagina/cock in the company of a woman.  It just feels...dirty. 

[Himu]

It sounds like you want a kitty cat, bebpo

[Fresh Prince]

That's it. I don't usually ignore people but you're special.

[Bebpo]

It sounds like you want a kitty cat, bebpo

*edit* I realized how stupid that sounded. 

I just want a normal relationship.  I don't know what they are necessarily, but I'd like to try one.  I wouldn't call my past relationships normal.

That's it. I don't usually ignore people but you're special.

Sorry I offended you?  You guys pose me questions and I try to answer them.  I'm not trying to be mean or anything and I take people's advice.

You said:

unless you grow up and have realistic expectations of an adult relationship.

Sounds good to me, but I don't know what those are.  Can someone tell me what is a realistic expectation of an adult relationship?  I don't have any frame of reference because I've never been in one.  There sort of this idea here, that since this is a forum of adult intelligent people, that it's common sense how relationships are; but as someone who was off the dating scene for a decade where most everyone WAS getting their dating experience, I lack this common knowledge.

[lennedsay]

What about inviting her over and cooking for her. No apron.

Also no pants, and it's good 

[CrystalGemini]

I've learned that all girls want different things(I know crazy right!) but that's after the initial getting to know each other period.

This.  Everybody's different.  There really isn't any one formula for getting that "perfect" partner.  Relationships have a flow of their own whether they are romantic or not.  Don't over-think it.  It shows.

[Fresh Prince]

All women want the same thing.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Everything.

[close]

[CrystalGemini]

Aw. I wouldn't say that.  Again every PERSON is different.  Like lennedsay doesn't like men baking for her but it's definitely not something I mind.  etiolate cooks and bakes for me and vice versa.  But that's just the way our relationship is built and every relationship is built differently.

Think about how your relationship with your best friend (and in the same way, not everybody HAS a best friend).  It's not something that can be attained by force.

[E-DuB]

In a relationship for the past year and a half. Things are good. Could see myself marrying her. The sex is great too.

[Fresh Prince]

It was a joke. Anyway seeing 40-50 year olds (male and female) married 3/4 times and the jaded, bitter people they become has sort of ruined the concept of marriage for me.

[Trent Dole]

It was a joke. Anyway seeing 40-50 year olds (male and female) married 3/4 times and the jaded, bitter people they become has sort of ruined the concept of marriage for me.

Well they're idiot multi-time failures, of course they're going to be bitter. Shit's a dice roll - half of them don't work out. Doesn't mean it's not worth playing the game.

[Fresh Prince]

I wouldn't say that, a few of them were 'good' people. 

[CrystalGemini]

It doesn't matter how "good" of a person you are.  If you're not honest about yourself in the relationship it will not work out regardless of how well the relationship was before marriage.  Two people playing their roles (ie using said formulas to date) will know no more about each other going into marriage than acquaintances.  The courtship becomes an act on both sides because of social expectations you both choose to accept.   

[Fresh Prince]

'Good' as in as far as they seemed (outside their views on the opposite sex) emotionally intelligent at work.  I think they went through a lot of shit to become that understanding. Seeing people in their 30s doing what you just highlighted sort of brought it home. A guy in his 30s in all earnestly just told me, 'You're Indian. You should just get an arranged marriage. ----- got one. It's all the same in the end. There's less trouble- no chasing around. In the end there is no 'one' you just settle for what you get'. But he was sort of a lazy fuck.
I respect people who get married and have kids. Or the person (note I didn't say people) who gets married out of naive love. I don't really respect people who get married just to move onto the next phase of life or become scared of living/dying alone. The latter happens far more than people would admit. 

[Human Snorenado]

Bebpo, your main problem in life is that you're a (I'm assuming on the age here) 30 year old lawyer who fucking cosplays.  Of course you don't know shit about women.  If you did, you'd know you gotta play it like Fonzie... and what's Fonzie like, motherfuckers?  That's right.  Fonzie is COOL.  Fonzie isn't gonna be all over some girl within the first couple of weeks/months of dating her.  No, he's gonna say "Heeeeeyyyy" a lot and occasionally be unavailable.  That and a motorcycle will make her want to fuck him; you dressing like a fey woman-man-thing just doesn't have the same draw, I'm afraid.

[Human Snorenado]

As for me personally, I'm kind of starting over in life- going back to school and shit, and my hobbies are all super man nerdy shit, so I don't have a lot of exposure to chicks my own age and plus I don't want to put up with anyone else's bullshit in my life right now so I can't really be arsed into trying to get laid.  I just don't care, honestly.  This is what happens when you hit your mid 30's, boys.  It sucks.

My main problem with women, honestly tho, is the whole kids thing.  I don't care what any of you who have them say- those things are unnatural soul sucking messes with feet whose only purpose is to make people miserable and not live for themselves.  You think it's a coincidence KIDS and AIDS are one letter off?  No sir.  AIDS will at least kill you, KIDS lingers forever.  And women totally get the shittier end of the deal when it comes to kids and STILL they insist on having the little fuckers.  I don't get you, ladies.

[CrystalGemini]

All my close female friends are opposed to marriage, kids, or both.  I really don't know where you guys are getting these ideas from.

There are plenty of women out there that don't fall into that stereotypical mold.

[Fresh Prince]

Old people!

[Barry Egan]

But Bebpo you're talking about the oh god help me 'the first flourishes of love' not the nitty gritty of love and relationships. That stuff your talking about it rarely lasts forever. But you're right there's no point helping you unless you grow up and have realistic expectations of an adult relationship.

So what you're saying is I have to put up with weeks/months early on of flirting and dinner and sex to get to the point where I can have someone to cuddle with and hug and be all sappy cute with?

I get what you're saying, but it just feels like so much effort and time just to have someone to care about.  

See, this is where a therapist might ask you what your family life was like at home that made you foster an association between a serious, undramatic relationship and boring drudgery, or why you need affection to be flowing out of your significant other in a contestant unwavering stream.  Nobody on this forum really has the patience to get in to that stuff with you in depth because it goes beyond the threshold of "entertaining way to kill some time on the internet".  If you paid someone some of your big lawyer bux though, they might actually help you connect some of these dots.  You just seem like you've had a lot of confusing messages In your life about what a relationship should be from a young age.       

[Barry Egan]

Wow my iPad really butchered that post smh.

[Fresh Prince]

I just realised I sound like Dr Cox and Bebpo is J.D.  :'(

[Human Snorenado]

Bebpo, if you go see a therapist, make sure you tell them about the cosplaying, and show them pics too.  I personally would proscribe killing a deer with your bare hands to get over that shit.

And cg- that's awesome for you, but here in the South women are more traditional, stupid and lame and thus more likely to want to have those little fucking things clutching at their skirts and shit.  Two of my exes just had kids, and one of them was seriously awesome enough to stay with if she wasn't always bringing up the "I want kids!" bullshit.

[Fresh Prince]

CG are these friends Asian? Or did they go to a liberal college like Berkley?