Official *Consoles Are For Losers* thread

[Don Flamenco]

I never owned a snes or a nes. Was playing computer games at the time. So what is "classic" is highly variable on what a person is interested in.

No, it's not.   I'm not a Sonic fan at all, but I'm not gonna deny Sonic's classic status. 

but i'm not sure what we're arguing.  I agree, if you grew up in a place where whatever system was popular, you'll be attached to it...it was popular because it had a ton of great games.  Lots of systems have full libraries with several classics. 

[Stoney Mason]

I never owned a snes or a nes. Was playing computer games at the time. So what is "classic" is highly variable on what a person is interested in.

No, it's not.   I'm not a Sonic fan at all, but I'm not gonna deny Sonic's classic status. 

I will. Never liked it. Was never interested. So for me it's not a classic. Do I recognize that it was an extremely popular series in its day? Of course.

Not really arguing anything here. My point was mainly to just emphasize the already obvious.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Thing is people still know Sonic NOW, while maybe not everyone remembers Amiga classics like Nigel Mansels F1 just cause they aren't around anymore. This skews the picture towards NES/SNES/MEGA DRIVE had all the classics, which is not true.

Also the fact that English speaking internet fora are way more centered around the US/UK and young people skews this even further.

[Stoney Mason]

Thing is people still know Sonic NOW, while maybe not everyone remembers Amiga classics like Nigel Mansels F1 just cause they aren't around anymore. This skews the picture towards NES/SNES/MEGA DRIVE had all the classics, which is not true.

Also true. A lot of people have this idea that because they grew up with certain "classic" gaming franchises those were the best ones. They think their nostalgia trumps other nostalgia.

[Momo]

I used to play the shit out of Ayrton Senna F1 on Mega Drive. I made it a point to always stay at a mid field team and never go up to the A class cars, shit was too easy there.

  Firenzi

[tiesto]

I'd disagree but I doubt EU and Japan/USA are ever going to reconcile their differences concerning that era.

I had a C64 before I got a NES, and while it had a fair number of cool games, I felt like the kid who had GoBots instead of Transformers.

The C64 was released 4 years before the NES in Europe. Not a fair comparison.

Also C64 and Amiga were way cooler then NES/SNES 

Only C64 game I ever played was Last Ninja on Wii VC and it was horrible. Also I think I went to some kid's house who lived near my grandfather's country home upstate who had a C64 and the loading times were abysmal... like 10 min just to load one game. Open for suggestions for some C64 (and Amiga - my only experience with Amiga is the MOD music format) games worth playing.

[ToxicAdam]

There are no c64 games worth playing today. It's one of those 'you had to be there' type of systems.

Unless you wanted to play the games with the point of gaining historical appreciation for what they are and what they were able to do back then. That would be about the only benefit I could see.

[Human Snorenado]

I never owned a snes or a nes. Was playing computer games at the time. So what is "classic" is highly variable on what a person is interested in.

This is basically the equivalent of saying "I never saw Citizen Kane or Casablanca, so what's classic is debatable."  It's demonstrably wrong.  Your "let's not be hasty and try to see everything from all sides" thing can be carried too far, Stoney.

[Stoney Mason]

Citizen Kane is a classic because it was a precursor to modern movie classic techniques that still exist today and are influential today 60 or 70 years down the road. There are also occasionally things that pop up they are incredibly popular and influential for a very short amount of time but don't necessarily stand the test of time. Sonic is still around but certainly its no where near the influence it once held both as an indivudal game or as an influence to hold up a genre it was once a part of. I would argue the biggest influence Sonic holds now is on the free runners on things like the ios platform that spirtually ape the constant flow that sonic was about.

Classic for me doesn't just mean old. It doens't just mean something was popular. It just doesn't mean nostalgia. It means something that was both influential and still resonates in a modern context. There is also obviously a personal subjective thing factored in also. Sonic is an old game. It was a popular game. It was an influential game. But its not a classic game to me. Perhaps that's splitting hairs.

[Himu]

Are you saying that Sonic the Hedgehog, a game that literally started the animal mascot platformer boom, is not influential? A game that transformed platformers from slower Mario type games to faster, more agile side scrollers? That the entire 16-bit generation aped?

[Trent Dole]

Europe has always been and always will be a Sony land. Deal with it and QQ more MS feggits. You cannot strong arm your way around here like in neckbeard central, Arizona. When the time comes and PS4 launches here you will see unheard of queues in the electronic equipment "malls".

You can try your luck again with another Xbox Boat on Thames or some other lame-ass stunt but Europe will never succumb to filthy Xbawks. Luckily it will be severely underpowered this time next to GodStation 4 so no worries about UK/ France/ Germany charts.

(Image removed from quote.)

I was actually searching for the gif version where it sinks alas could not find it...

You mean this?

[Stoney Mason]

I never owned a snes or a nes. Was playing computer games at the time. So what is "classic" is highly variable on what a person is interested in.

This is basically the equivalent of saying "I never saw Citizen Kane of Casablanca, so what's classic is debatable."  It's demonstrably wrong.  Your "let's not be hasty and try to see everything from all sides" thing can be carried too far, Stoney.

I'm fine with that if a person is truly well versed. If a person watched or played everything. If your history is that you played Intellivision, 2600, Atari ST, Nintendo, etc. If you are a true historian of whatever the thing is you are a fan of. When it comes to videogames I don't think most people are as well versed as they think they are. They are practicing selective gameplaying and then determing the classics. They are letting whatever thing they played as kid determine their classics because it came at a very impressionable age. I'm generalizing of course and not everybody here is guilty of that but a lot of people are in general. So when I say a classic is highly variable on what a person is interested in or played, I think that is the case for a large majority of people.

[Stoney Mason]

Are you saying that Sonic the Hedgehog, a game that literally started the animal mascot platformer boom, is not influential? A game that transformed platformers from slower Mario type games to faster, more agile side scrollers? That the entire 16-bit generation aped?

I'm not giving the definitve word either way. That is not my style whether people think that is middle of the road pandering or not. What I'm saying is that Sonic for me is a game that was very influential for a very specifc time period. That is not uncommon. Many things are like that in life. Does that make them classic? I guess it depends on how you define classic. Maybe.  I'd like the wait another 10 years honestly and see what people still think of Sonic as the nostalgia continues to fade.

For me its not but that probably has a good bit to do with me not respecting the design of it. I think Sonic as a character design is more influential than Sonic as game design but then maybe those two things go hand in hand and I'm not quite respecting the marriage of them like I should.   

But then I'm open to be convinced. When you play a modern game what elements hark back to Sonic to you however direct or however loose? Serious question. I certainly could be not giving the game it's due in an influence context.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Stoney is right people will compare to what they know, horror games? Resident Evil for most, even though Alone in the Dark was way before that ( and who knows what else).

There are no c64 games worth playing today. It's one of those 'you had to be there' type of systems.

Unless you wanted to play the games with the point of gaining historical appreciation for what they are and what they were able to do back then. That would be about the only benefit I could see.

River Raid is still good.

You can prob play the NES version.

[DCharlieJP]

There are no c64 games worth playing today

Paradroid is still one of the greatest games ever made.

Pity the Amiga/St updated Paradroid 90 was so meh

[Don Flamenco]

I never owned a snes or a nes. Was playing computer games at the time. So what is "classic" is highly variable on what a person is interested in.

This is basically the equivalent of saying "I never saw Citizen Kane of Casablanca, so what's classic is debatable."  It's demonstrably wrong.  Your "let's not be hasty and try to see everything from all sides" thing can be carried too far, Stoney.

I'm fine with that if a person is truly well versed. If a person watched or played everything. If your history is that you played Intellivision, 2600, Atari ST, Nintendo, etc. If you are a true historian of whatever the thing is you are a fan of. When it comes to videogames I don't think most people are as well versed as they think they are. They are practicing selective gameplaying and then determing the classics. They are letting whatever thing they played as kid determine their classics because it came at a very impressionable age. I'm generalizing of course and not everybody here is guilty of that but a lot of people are in general. So when I say a classic is highly variable on what a person is interested in or played, I think that is the case for a large majority of people.

We don't have definitive numbers, we just have the frequency with which a game or series or character is considered "classic."   That's barely a statistic, but that's what people who are at the core of a particular media do-- they nerd out and make lists and type for too long about their favorites.  Same thing with music and movie freaks.  I don't think you could find many people who would disagree about the impact of Sonic.  Sonic is still whored out to a filthy degree to this day...only unmatched by Mario maybe.   As another example, OOT bores me to death, but it's not hard for me to see why it's hailed as classic by so many other people.  I didn't have a N64, but I wouldn't write off all N64 games just because of that...I'd take input on the best ones from what people usually talk about when they discuss the N64 online.

[Himu]

Stoney is right people will compare to what they know, horror games? Resident Evil for most, even though Alone in the Dark was way before that ( and who knows what else).

There are no c64 games worth playing today. It's one of those 'you had to be there' type of systems.

Unless you wanted to play the games with the point of gaining historical appreciation for what they are and what they were able to do back then. That would be about the only benefit I could see.

River Raid is still good.

You can prob play the NES version.

No shit horror games existed before RE. It doesn't take away from the fact that RE started the horror game boom.

It's like how Guitar Hero started the music games with instruments boom when Bemani had been doing it since 1996/1997. This does not take away from Guitar Hero's achievements nor make it any less influential. It is a strawman.

[tiesto]

Yeah, Sonic is iconic/ cult favourite/ classic Stoney. Klonoa isn't. Gex isn't. Banjo isn't. Sonic is.

As for iconic non-NES/ SNES games known in Europe that I owned:

Amiga you distinguished losers

- Sensible Soccer
- Cannon Fodder
- Lemmings
- SuperFrog
- Worms
- Alien Breed (see a pattern here? TEAM FUCKING 17)
- The Settlers
- SlamTilt/ Pinball Dreams/ Pinball Fantasies (rulez!)
- Banshee

C64 you punks

- Green Beret
- Boulder Dash
- Commando
- Knight Lore
- Gyruss
- Monty on the Run
- Exolon
- Last Ninja 2

Quite a few of these games were on other consoles - I've played Green Beret (Rush N Attack in the states), Boulderdash, Commando, Gyruss all on NES, Worms on PC and Lemmings on Genny. Seems like many of the best games got ported to the consoles, especially since IIRC Amiga and Genesis had comparable architecture.

[Stoney Mason]

My history is long because of my age and kinda varied but by no means exhaustive.

I began with Atari Stuff. Atari 800's, 2600's and then the later Atari ST's which were mostly a european thing despite living in America. The Atari ST has always been my favorite game machine of my life. It's where I developed a lot of taste and where for me nostalgia is stronger than any other console/computer. I also legit think there were a lot of amazing games at that time that have been kind of swallowed up in time because in America and Japan you had Nintendo consoles taking off and those are what drove the narrative for where the consoles were going.

At the time I looked down on those consoles. The games seemed simplistic to me and I always mention that I was a computer snob before being a computer snob was fashionable. Later I fortunately dropped those attitudes and was able to recognize the really good stuff that came out on the snes and play a lot of it via emulation or over friends places but unlike a lot of people my background was always more western and  european when it came to games. I don't have nostalgia for megaman or certain classic Nintendo franchises that came out at the time because I was playing on computers mostly at the time although I did eventually own a genesis. Final Fantasy meant nothing to me because I was into Ultima or other western based rpgs of the time.

The playstation one was where I really first started getting an appreciation for Japan designed style games and it was very refreshing at the time because it was a new world. That and the Playstation 2 were really dominant for those sorts of experiences for me although things have tilted away from that this generation to a large degree.

[Cormacaroni]

how did this thread turn into a mass exhumation of console gaming's dead past

talk to me about DX11.1 dammit

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Wow, you guys sure dodged a bullet there.  NES/SNES totes sucked.

This made me laugh.

(Image removed from quote.)

As did this.

[DCharlieJP]

pretty telling that half of borys's c64 list are ports of Japanese NES games

I mean, at least with the Amiga you can make a list of somewhat unique stuff (though again, outside of Europe, no one's going to put up with the jankiness that permeates Amiga action/platformers).  I still think pound for pound you were better off owning a console or PC during that time, though.

and again we see in this thread, Lager talking about shit he admittedly has no knowledge of.

The C64 has something insane like 16k games - it shits all over the NES/FC in terms of output which rocks in around 1600 (?) including disk systems and ignoring dupes (which, for the C64, obviously felches the quality ration, but still) -and- the Amiga in terms of unique stuff - you just need to seperate Polish Sausage lists from the real MEATY MEATS!!!

I don't really want this to become MINGELERS LISTS but if you -reaaaaally- want a list of top grade C64 titles i would literally be here all night. Wasteland, the Sentinel, Citadel, Paradroid, Delta, Sanxion, Uridium, Morpheus, thing on a spring, pod, spore, Mutants, Wizball, MP Soccer, Alter Ego, LCP, Entombed, Kane, Impossible Mission, Racing Destruction Set, Barbarian (Palace), Fourth Protocol, Hacker, Mercenary, Driller, etc etc etc....

still think pound for pound you were better off owning a console or PC during that time, though.

In EUROPE?! you are high - 40 quid cart games and utterly turgid support (8-bit days) vs mass piracy and the NES/Master system era was covered by the Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, BBC, Electron, Atari ST, Amiga, Archimedes.... we were playing 16 bit games long before the Megadrive was even a twitch in Sega's balls. Now - the Megadrive when it hit brought a whole new level to the game and at that point a lot of people migrated over .... but the NES ? CGA/EGA PC?! i mean - you have to remember just where PCs where around this time - we weren't anywhere near where modern PCs are.

So no - PCs only covered the very tail end of the 16-bit machines in Europe and as for the The 8-bit consoles?! Euros didn't care because we had better and cheaper alternatives and we went through two gens whilst the NES/Master System passed us by. Mario aside (insert delusions about Giana sisters here) no one gave a shit - also , there's a FUCK TON of port overs from C64/Amiga to nes.

C64'ers - have a lol at this Famicom Disk System game :



looooooooooooooooooooool

not the only weird C64/Amiga --> NES game either.

[Tasty]

dc, i don't know about the european continent.  i lived in a first world country.  i didn't have to choke down tripe and pretend it was steak.

Newsfeed.

[DCharlieJP]

dc, i don't know about the european continent.  i lived in a first world country.  i didn't have to choke down tripe and pretend it was steak.

How do you know what it tastes like when you don't know anything about it? 

This is really a fundamental point that came up in the early days of the Wife and I's relationship where she took me through her FC collection and i opened up the C64 emulator. Our reactions were pretty much the same for most of the games on the -other- system : "yeah, this is pretty shitty" - and the crux is living through it.

That said - i still ended up with 300+ boxed FC games :/

Also - you are Canadian aren't you ? Surely theres a dash of frenchy in you somewhere You maybe don't even realise it !

[cool breeze]

to steer this thread back to new next gen talk,  what do those leaked PS4 specs mean for backwards compatibility? bad or really bad?

[Huff]

Genkai is about BC your going to get. which could be anywhere from extremely shitty to passable

Although if Sony and MS's machines are that similar, it may not be that difficult to port the xbla versions (of psn games) to the ps4. not that it will happen

[cool breeze]

PS3 BC; limited support (360 and Vita) or full.  PS1 is a given, and PSP Minis I guess.  PS2 would be nice, especially if it includes DVDs instead of just the digital versions; realistically they want you to buy that stuff again so who knows.

bestest impossibilest scenario: everything the PS3 can do plus PSP emulation

Really, I just want to replace my old launch PS3.  BC is important to me for that reason.  No backwards compatibility and I start thinking about buying one of those cheap ugly PS3s instead of a PS4.

[Positive Touch]

no BC seems like pure stupid. a high price tag for a new system would be a lot easier to deal with when you can play your old games on it or go out and buy a bunch of cheap but highly-regarded games instead of one or two $60 ones.

[Dickie Dee]

i'd thought cloud based BC for PS4 for was foregone conclusion at this point...was that nothing more than idle speculation?

[pilonv1]

i'd thought cloud based BC for PS4 for was foregone conclusion at this point...was that nothing more than idle speculation?

I'd expect it to be part of PS+.

[Cormacaroni]

i'd thought cloud based BC for PS4 for was foregone conclusion at this point...was that nothing more than idle speculation?

I'd expect it to be part of PS+.

now that you mention it, this does seem highly plausible.

[DCharlieJP]

Oscar - whilst i agree on the MD > Amiga premise especially for arcade stuff, the Amiga was 5 years old before md hit. The point was c64/amiga covered the NES for euros - we had no need for it.

Given the choice i'd take the c64 alone over NES - throw in the amiga and ... Yeah. You get the point.

Onwards to the next point - i'll just make a C64 love in thread

[Cormacaroni]

What I don't understand is how Euros (of whom I am technically one but still) still have this burning hardon for Sony after the utter shitpile that was PSP/PS3/Vita

[DCharlieJP]

huh? the PS3 is a bit weird given the X360 exists - but the PSP is the best machine sony ever made and the Vita, sales aside, is the hot girl that never goes with anyone.... she'll let her hair down eventually.... or end up dumpster corpsed.

[Cormacaroni]

what, you'd take PSP over PS2, PSX all of a sudden? Due to what, Monster Hunter, piracy and emulators? Not that we're talking about your opinions anyway. Has it been a hit in Europe?

[Positive Touch]

DID SOMEONE JUST CALL THE PSP A PIECE OF SHIT

[Cormacaroni]

perhaps i would be more generously inclined towards the PSP if DCharlie hadn't had mine for the past 2 yrs

[Damian79]

Er i would put ps1 about psp too.

[Cormacaroni]

there is literally nothing that can make this thread progress beyond about 10 years ago is there. Maybe E3 will do it

[cool breeze]

how about an old rumor given new life?

Part of an old Battlefield 4 rumor included a bit about BF3 DLC.  Yesterday that DLC was confirmed.  So, the rest of the rumor is sounding more credible.

the rumor went:

Lasgana: BF4
Lasgana: Coming October 23rd, 2013
Lasgana: development just started, expected to be done in 1 yr [Nirolak's Note: Since this is the one likely to elicit the most "this is fake" notes, I feel I should elaborate. Given some later points (like already have an internal demo), this seems to refer to EA's normal two year development cycle of a one year pre-production cycle with ~30-40 people and then ballooning up to 150-300 people to make the game after most things are prototyped and planned out. Visceral, BioWare, and a fair number of publishers outside EA also operate this way since it allows you to have multiple projects without cyclical layoffs due to scaling down in pre-production and scaling up in production. For example, during the downtime between Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 3, DICE's spare staff worked on making Medal of Honor's multiplayer and helping to build Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit. As to what the bulk of DICE's staff worked on prior to this going into production, it's probably either a second project or, once again, other EA games.]
Lasgana: will be on pc, ps3, xbox360 and next gen consoles
Lasgana: will be one of the first games for next gen consoles
Lasgana: commander system comes back
Lasgana: profile can be linked with other devices like ipad
Lasgana: auto login, need internet all time, support cloud saves
Lasgana: easier to pickup the game, to take care of players from CoD
Lasgana: support body and voice control for this commander system
Lasgana: better battlelog integration and better stats reporting
Lasgana: supports video playback and sharing
Lasgana: have gem store for dlc and other stuff like that
Lasgana: 3 factions: russia, usa and china
Lasgana: can deploy female soliders
Lasgana: frostbite 2.0 engine
Lasgana: pc, ps4 and xbox 720 supports 64 player maps
Lasgana: 360 and ps3 will be less*
Lasgana: pc, ps4 and 720 will provide 60 fps
Lasgana: already have a demo video internally within EA,
Lasgana: matching the quality of BF3 already
Lasgana: bf4 will use 80% of power of frostbite 2, wheras bf3 only 30-40%
Lasgana: modern background
Lasgana: i mean story background

*I think console versions of BF3 were 24 players (?)

 

[Cormacaroni]

now that's what i'm talkin bout

Arbitrary percentage estimates! 80% of the power of frostbite 2!

[cool breeze]

potential PS4 business happening on February 20th

"See the Future" is the tagline or something


https://us.playstation.com/meeting2013/

[Vertigo]

That's why there is a 25 page thread on gaf? A 44 sec teaser. 

[Cormacaroni]

If the next-gen consoles are only about putting out current gen PC titles @ 1080p 60fps then eek.

Save us, Naughty Gods!

that's about all we got at the start of the current gen...COD2 was a nice upgrade at the time but obviously just a placeholder in the grand scheme of things...

[Smooth Groove]

Current gen PC titles like Far Cry 3 run like dogshit on consoles so 1080p 60fps would be a nice start

Naughty Gods, my ass, they couldn't even manage to do 1 game at 60fps or even 30fps 100%

[Cormacaroni]

yeah, and they don't even stress PCs

you have to remember that Borys' 'current gen' started in like 2010 with God of War 3

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I love it when some console game chugs and then I go on my PC, crank everything up to the highest setting, and does it without breaking a sweat.

[Sho Nuff]

DAT KEPLER

[cool breeze]

If the next-gen consoles are only about putting out current gen PC titles @ 1080p 60fps then eek.

Save us, Naughty Gods!

that's about all we got at the start of the current gen...COD2 was a nice upgrade at the time but obviously just a placeholder in the grand scheme of things...

yeah, there were a couple early PC ports and Xbox 1 ports to the 360 that didn't showcase what this generation would be like.  A better looking Battlefield 3 running at 60fps (1080p?) with more players isn't a bad start.

PGR3 was the only launch game that really amazed me.  But in that first year games like Dead Rising, Fight Night 3, Lost Planet, and Gears 1 were starting to show how improved the hardware was.

[Cormacaroni]

PGR3 <3

COD2 <3

probably the first and last games I 1000'ed Not coincidentally pre-daughter

[pilonv1]

Early 360 games were incredible, especially for multiplayer. Agreed about COD2 being the peak.

[Himu]

Good god if Dynasty Warriors 8 gets a next gen port I may have to delay getting it until then. I guess I'll double dip.

[cool breeze]

Early 360 games were incredible, especially for multiplayer. Agreed about COD2 being the peak.

I played a fair amount of perfect dark zero online back in the day.  I enjoyed it apart from the terribly stiff controls.

It's easy to forget how highly rated that game was compared to the general cold reaction it had from the forums.

[Smooth Groove]

Why don't sfags like Borys ever learn?

When has Sony ever delivered on its promise of blowing away current technology at the price of less than a videocard? 

[mjemirzian]

Both consoles will probably be weighed down by causal features. They have to be more than "games consoles" now.

[Tasty]

[Himu]

[Cerveza mas fina]

 

20 of feb it all goes down bitches!!!

[Cormacaroni]

Ars Technica has a speculative article up about 4K being pushed hard w/Durango and Orbis but surely it'd have to be scaled for the most part? It's gonna be 4-5 years before it could possibly be mainstream enough to justify it

[maxy]

GTA 5 delayed = next gen sucks

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/185855/Why_GTA_Vs_delay_could_cause_an_industrywide_ripple_effect.php#.UQuCAx26b0c

Both companies are expected to launch their new console systems this holiday season. GTA, which is usually a system seller, could have the opposite effect this time around -- keeping players away from the new consoles by offering a compelling reason to stick with their Xbox 360s and PlayStation 3s.

That's a nightmare scenario for the console companies, which are going to have a tough enough time attracting a new audience for the systems. Nintendo's sales shortfall with the Wii U already had them nervous. The thought of launching a GTA-less system two months after what could be the year's hottest game hits shelves can't be an appealing one.

Of course, it's possible there's more to this delay than just polishing the game. There are, in fact, a couple of potential reasons to hold it back.

Microsoft has showered Rockstar with money in the past, buying first-pass rights for DLC content for GTA IV. It's entirely possible the company has done so again, buying an exclusive port of GTA V for the next generation Xbox -- and wanted the launches closer together. (Sony doesn't seem to be in a financial position to do so at present.)

Sales of the game would be minimal, since the install base of the system will be so comparatively small, but it would give Microsoft an important bragging right -- and make its next generation system seem very current and relevant to core gamers, who will be critical to this upcoming generation. (Keep in mind, those Destiny court documents that came out during Activision's legal fight with Jason West and Vince Zampella indicate that Destiny will be exclusive to the system as well, so having GTA in the fold as well would be a killer one-two punch.)

GTA5 loser edition...PS3,360
Next gen GTA5...720,PC

Sfeggits melting left and right.

bu bu bu it would cost them billions and billions to do that
in the end it wouldn't matter anyway
nobody cares about 6 months exclusivity anyway