Author Topic: Sales Bore | Media Create And Other Sale Numbers |OT|  (Read 1180599 times)

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Tasty

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #780 on: May 13, 2012, 06:25:51 PM »
I don't think it's a crash, it's a shift.

F2P, mobile games, niche indie titles, casual games.

The market is diverse now with something there for everybody. As everybody has been saying for a long time now middle tier games and companies will go away. Thing is NPD won't track this and it might seem like a crash but it's not.

Personally I'm looking to get out of this business I think since the future of a QA lead and then manager with massive overtime and the uncertainty of how platforms perform is not something I want as a future family man. If I had some higher up job I could stay but now it's not looking good and I've been working in QA/Localisation for 4 years now.

I don't know bro, a 32% year over year contraction is indicative of more than just a simple shift.

The generation is long in tooth already and Sony/MS want to drag it out even further. Of course sales will be down.

Positive Touch

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #781 on: May 13, 2012, 07:04:03 PM »
I wouldn't call it a shift at all.  The customers are shifting, yes, but the industry itself isn't.  The traditional console/game industry's days are numbered, and when it crashes, it's going to take most of the companies with it.  Related to its crash, a different industry is rising up in F2P and mobile, and for the most part its kings are not familiar faces at all.

and i wouldn't call that a crash.  a lot of old, big-name companies are crashing, but people are still spending billions on games.

high-budget, high-risk gaming was never sustainable in the first place; companies that made their living off that are adjusting or dying off (mostly dying off). people that cry about touchscreen gaming are missing the bigger picture - as more companies are able to make quality games on smaller budgets, they'll move away from big expensive consoles with limited userbases and onto all-in-one devices, i.e. smartphones.  phones and tablets are already working to become streaming home entertainment devices.  there's enough demand for high-quality games that they'll be made (at more reasonable budgets and prices than today) for those platforms, and enough of a market to sell specialized items like console-style controllers.  as we're already seeing with leaks of next-gen shit, integrated tablets and phones are the way of the future and dedicated consoles are on their way out. 

i also think there'll still be "hollywood" games like we have today, but i think it'll be done by much fewer companies, they'll all be western, and they'll be pc-only. pc gaming has always been the realm of the over-ambitious high-minded nerd, and i think there's still enough of those around that they'll be able to keep the market alive thanks to old-school nerds like us.
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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #782 on: May 13, 2012, 10:33:20 PM »
It won't be a crash, but a whimper. Whimper and whimsy.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #783 on: May 13, 2012, 10:37:21 PM »
This gen is doing pretty good when you consider that the cheapest consoles now are the price of launch consoles in prior gens. The long gen and high pricing are preventing the introduction of bottom feeders. It's not too late to fix that I think, but that time might be coming soon.

Oblivion

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #784 on: May 13, 2012, 10:43:31 PM »
Somebody made a post (here or on gaf, I forget) that mentioned we have more million+ selling games on consoles this gen than we did last gen? Is that true, or am I insane in the membrane?

iconoclast

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #785 on: May 13, 2012, 11:07:29 PM »
Question for Oscar, or anyone who's been following Japanese sales for years: How has the Fire Pro Wrestling series done? Did FPW Returns (2005) bomb? There's a whole bunch of FPW games, so I assume the series was successful at some point, but had a steady decline somewhere... I'd guess starting with the Dreamcast version (FPWD).

I wish they would make a new one for the Vita or something.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #786 on: May 13, 2012, 11:11:26 PM »
So your scenario does *not* describe a crash of the traditional home console market?

i thought we were talking about the video game market crashing, not consoles specifically
pcp

Takao

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #787 on: May 14, 2012, 12:39:24 AM »
Question for Oscar, or anyone who's been following Japanese sales for years: How has the Fire Pro Wrestling series done? Did FPW Returns (2005) bomb? There's a whole bunch of FPW games, so I assume the series was successful at some point, but had a steady decline somewhere... I'd guess starting with the Dreamcast version (FPWD).

I wish they would make a new one for the Vita or something.

I don't think Spike cares about FPW anymore. They have weird PSP RPGs where you impregnate gods, and have more shitty DBZ games to make.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #788 on: May 14, 2012, 12:41:25 AM »
When people say crash I think of a couple of things so maybe that's where the "crash" issue is tricky. When Atari crashed they fundamentally brought down the entire console gaming industry of that time. Gaming shifted back to the personal computers for a period until Nintendo came back and were able to convince retailers that gaming wasn't a fad.

This situation much more reminds me of cable television which is why I used that analogy earlier. People thought the same thing about the traditional networks when their ratings started plummeting because of cable TV. Look at ratings for TV now versus ten years ago. And 10 years before that. And 10 years before that. There were even people who predicted their complete demise. What instead happened was a re-arranged universe. Where network television played an important yet much lesser role because all these competing stations and networks divided up their audience. So if somebody means a crash in that sense. Then yeah I guess we could call that a crash although I view it simply more as evolution or correction. There are too many big budget games being made that have no hope of recouping their costs.  That has to change and in the meantime while it hasn't changed, a good number of devs are gonna suffer.

Just like television networks, big console manufactures are slow moving giant ships. They can't course correct quickly. But I do think there will be some course corrections especially when they launch their new consoles eventually. There will be a new world though where tablets, free to play PC games, facebook, etc all function as cable TV did. And more people are playing games. Just across different devices. That is inevitable. There will always be some simple to play box or device in your home though that provides essentially what consoles provide in concept. Whether Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, or some company not yet on the horizon makes it is moot. Because console gaming simply means simple gaming in a box. And it won't be hardcore PC gaming on PC's because that shit is too complex for the average joe.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 12:46:12 AM by Stoney Mason »

Positive Touch

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #789 on: May 14, 2012, 12:43:27 AM »
Nah, my post, the one you quoted, made a separation between the console business (the main industry as we've known it for a long time) and its successor industry.  Games will always be around, but consoles and many of the old giants attached to them have a brief and painful future ahead of them.
ah yup, sorry i missed the distinction. we agree then!

really as long as i can get 1) challenging-yet-fun action games and 2) ridiculously large and detailed open-world rpgs, i'll be fine.  i don't think there's much danger of either of those going away anytime soon.
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originalz

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #790 on: May 14, 2012, 01:40:58 AM »
Question for Oscar, or anyone who's been following Japanese sales for years: How has the Fire Pro Wrestling series done? Did FPW Returns (2005) bomb? There's a whole bunch of FPW games, so I assume the series was successful at some point, but had a steady decline somewhere... I'd guess starting with the Dreamcast version (FPWD).

I wish they would make a new one for the Vita or something.

I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of interest in pro wrestling in Japan.  The old Firepro games came out during the golden age of wrestling, it used to be absolutely huge in Japan in the late 80s-mid 90s, occupying prime time TV with memorable wrestlers and being especially popular with kids.  If you had a PC Engine you probably also had a copy of Firepro.  Around the late 90s MMA started to pick up with K-1 and PRIDE, most people just started watching that and stopped watching wrestling.  Nowadays, people don't care about wrestling anymore, it's only shown during late-night hours or on premium channels, so kids aren't watching it and most people would probably just watch anime or some shit during those hours.  It still exists and has a dedicated fanbase, but it's simply not mainstream anymore and a hardcore wrestling game like Firepro just can't survive.

Sadly, due to several scandals and problems MMA in Japan is also dead, so there's no real mainstream avenue for the genre anymore.  Ah well, as long as I can watch judo I'm happy!

maxy

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #791 on: May 14, 2012, 02:29:48 AM »
http://andriasang.com/con102/squenix_earnings/
Quote
Following major losses the year prior, Square Enix returned to profitability in fiscal 2012. Net sales were up 2.1% to 127,896 million yen. Operating income was up 46.2% to 10,713 million yen. Net income went from a 12,043 million yen loss in FY2011 to a 6,060 million yen gain.

In its earnings report today, Square Enix credited the favorable results to increased sales of console games, boosted by Deus Ex Human Revolution and Final Fantasy XIII-2. The company also saw continued expansion in growth areas such as web and smartphones, with such titles as Sengoku IXA and Final Fantasy Brigade performing well.

cat

maxy

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #792 on: May 14, 2012, 03:08:04 AM »
bookmarked
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pilonv1

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #793 on: May 14, 2012, 03:31:54 AM »
Quote
- The boxed retail market is dead.  Specialty stores pull way back in scale, general retailers that carry games reduce shelf space to nil. 

Maybe it ends up as 10-20% of the market but I don't think it will ever disappear completely. There is a segment of the population that will want something in their hands, and general retailers will reduce to near zero but they'll still stock the few remaining major titles that have some mainstream appeal.

A huge issue is there is a massive gap between perceived value of a console game by consumers and publishers. Consumers don't want to pay $250+$40/$60 for an experience that is not (to them, regardless of how much love you think went into the development of Kid Icarus) significantly different to the 99c game on their smart phone. Hardware manufacturers wont reduce prices because they need to recoup the costs from poor decisions 6 years ago. Retailers desperately want lower prices, but they can't get them because of the sins of the past. Not saying that lower prices would prevent any of this happening because it wont, but there would be less problems than there are currently.

One thing I always thought was amusing was the weird fear of having something other than a AAA title developed by hundreds of people with every feature box ticked in your lineup, as if being perceived by their peers or the media as a "small/budget publisher" is similar to being called a truther/birther. Now they're being eclipsed by tiny teams and bedroom coders putting out free or near free games.

I don't see FTP+IAP working for the mass market long term though, mainly because you get the majority of your revenue from 1% of the userbase. Ultimately I think the industry is just going through a huge cost/pricing adjustment, and we'll end up with the majority of content priced between $1-20 with smaller scopes and narrower focuses on as many platforms as possible.
itm

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #794 on: May 14, 2012, 03:38:55 AM »
I think you're a bit Oscar, also forgetting that this gen is playing out during the worst economic crisis in decades. Japans, US, Germany, UK, all these huge economies have flatlined or worse in the past 4/5 years.

I don't know if the economy will ever bounce back, but if it will luxury products like console games will bounce back too.

Fifstar

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #795 on: May 14, 2012, 05:02:45 AM »
I think you're a bit Oscar, also forgetting that this gen is playing out during the worst economic crisis in decades. Japans, US, Germany, UK, all these huge economies have flatlined or worse in the past 4/5 years.

I don't know if the economy will ever bounce back, but if it will luxury products like console games will bounce back too.

But were consoles really affected that much by the crisis? I don't know exactly how the overall sales during this generation compare to those the PS2 generation, but if sales are similar and budgets are mainly to blame for the problems of the traditional videogame industry, I don't see how the economic crisis can be held responsible.

I don't say you can disregard it completly, but it seems disillusional to think that the videogame market would have grown substantially more, enough to sustain the increased budgets if it were not for the crisis.

Maybe the market potential for traditional console gaming just has hit the ceiling during the years of the Playstation 1 + 2.

Gulp

tiesto

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #796 on: May 14, 2012, 08:32:02 AM »
I wasn't around for any of the crashes. Whats the main affect on the consumer?

A lot of companies went bankrupt and people started playing more Japanese games [Europeans started playing more home PC games].

IIRC people played a lot of Japanese games before the NES as well - Donkey Kong, Frogger, Pac Man, Space Invaders, Dig Dug, Galaga, etc. One of the only times when things were split evenly Japan/US.

That being said, if it means more people playing Japanese games, bring on the crash :rock

This time Japanese gaming will probably die too; we'll all be playing like Middle Eastern games this time around, like Garshasp 2 and MARG BAR AMRIKA RAMPAGE ALLAH AKBAR!

I have a feeling that Eastern European games will weather the crash the best... then a new generation of kids will grow up obsessed with Eastern European media, religiously listen to cheesy dance-pop music and have a fetish for Slavic women.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm already 2/3 of the way there!
[close]
^_^

tiesto

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #797 on: May 14, 2012, 08:52:29 AM »
- and in the end, customers interested in games are playing on their phones and/or tablets, with steam picking up most of what qualifies as the hardcore gaming contingent today.  console industry is dead, Japanese gaming has retreated back into itself for another round of the galapagos shuffle, games are back to making money hand over fist relative to their investment.  one million copies of uncharted 4: drake's unavoidable blowjob are buried in the nevada desert.

What does this mean?
^_^

Tasty

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #798 on: May 14, 2012, 08:58:41 AM »
I agree with most of Oscar's post except consoles going away. I do think that it might be time for one of the big three to bow out, but I think there will always be a market for dedicated gaming hardware (that also sort of acts like a DRM machine.)

D3RANG3D

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #799 on: May 14, 2012, 09:00:01 AM »
I agree with most of Oscar's post except consoles going away. I do think that it might be time for one of the big three to bow out, but I think there will always be a market for dedicated gaming hardware (that also sort of acts like a DRM machine.)

I also think it's time for Nintendo to go third party. :P

cool breeze

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #800 on: May 14, 2012, 09:19:22 AM »
I have a feeling that Eastern European games will weather the crash the best... then a new generation of kids will grow up obsessed with Eastern European media, religiously listen to cheesy dance-pop music and have a fetish for Slavic women.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm already 2/3 of the way there!
[close]

I'd like to say the eastern bloc is exempt from all this business, but recently GSC shut down along with the STALKER sequel.  All that money saved from forgoing playtesting didn't save them :'(

Tasty

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #801 on: May 14, 2012, 11:08:59 AM »
I agree with most of Oscar's post except consoles going away. I do think that it might be time for one of the big three to bow out, but I think there will always be a market for dedicated gaming hardware (that also sort of acts like a DRM machine.)

I also think it's time for Nintendo to go third party. :P

It could be Nintendo or it could be Sony. I doubt it will be MS as the 360 is quickly becoming one of their most important, successful areas and will only continue to get more important in the future as the home media space from Google and Apple heat the space up.

Sony is hemorrhaging money hand-over-fist, the Vita is a bomb and I hear they're going batshit crazy with the PS4's specs which would be great except for the fact the PS3 sucked up all their PS1/PS2 moneys like a black hole and they have nothing in reserve to cushion the fall. And honestly, a "success" like the PS3 has had might even be too optimistic for PS4.

Nintendo's vulnerable because they only do games, but like Disney their IPs will always be worth something and they have a pretty large amount of cash in reserve from what I remember. They'll at least survive this upcoming generation and if they don't completely bomb out Vita-style I think they should be OK. I think retail-digital games for 3DS and on launch for Wii U shows they can at least change quickly enough when they decide to (if the 3DS's adequate online didn't show otherwise -- adequate being a step up from fricking untenable.) The eShop's actually pretty good but not nearly at Android/iOS levels yet obviously, but then again none of the others are except maybe XBLA.

Sony and Nintendo really need to make a quick-entry, digital-only, route for indie devs. The ESRB/PEGI/etc. requirements alone pretty much kill any indie interest in their platforms (if the $2,650 devkits and license fees, not to mention the office requirement, didn't do that already.)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 11:10:45 AM by Andrex »

Momo

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #802 on: May 14, 2012, 11:23:59 AM »
Sony is hemorrhaging money hand-over-fist,
I believe Kaz is killing off the non-profitable and non-salvageable divisions

Tasty

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #803 on: May 14, 2012, 11:30:51 AM »
Sony is hemorrhaging money hand-over-fist,
I believe Kaz is killing off the non-profitable and non-salvageable divisions

Has he? I've just heard hearsay and speculation.

That also doesn't necessarily mean they'll start being profitable any time soon.

Momo

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #804 on: May 14, 2012, 12:11:04 PM »
Yeah I'm pretty sure killing off those divisions will cost a lot short term

maxy

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #805 on: May 14, 2012, 12:11:59 PM »
Nintendo abandoning their carefully controlled hardware/software ecosystem?
Crazy talk.

Although there will be tons of unhappy people if WiiU doesn't quite match Wii sales.
cat

Takao

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #806 on: May 14, 2012, 12:18:22 PM »
Sony really just needs to get rid of the TV business. I wonder how much of their financial problems can be attributed solely to that division. PS3 was a money sink for a few years, but the TV side has been one for a decade.

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #807 on: May 14, 2012, 12:35:27 PM »
Nintendo abandoning their carefully controlled hardware/software ecosystem?
Crazy talk.

Although there will be tons of unhappy people if WiiU doesn't quite match Wii sales.

it won't

wii was a fad to the casual players like the moms and grannies, they've gotten what they're gonna get out of those folks

all their wiis are either sitting on yard sale tables or packed away in closets, they don't want to buy another new wii sports machine because they already have one they never use
sup

Great Rumbler

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #808 on: May 14, 2012, 12:37:41 PM »
Honestly, the Wii-U will be exceedingly lucky to do half of what the Wii has done. Which has nothing to do with profitability, though.
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Tasty

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #809 on: May 14, 2012, 12:38:04 PM »
Nintendo abandoning their carefully controlled hardware/software ecosystem?
Crazy talk.

Although there will be tons of unhappy people if WiiU doesn't quite match Wii sales.

There's no way it will and I doubt anybody is expecting it to except greedy stockholders.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #810 on: May 14, 2012, 12:39:26 PM »
Its extremely unlikely Wii U will capture the same market the Wii did for lots and lots of reasons. Which is not to say they won't be successful and carve out their own niche.

Tasty

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #811 on: May 14, 2012, 12:43:29 PM »
Its extremely unlikely Wii U will capture the same market the Wii did for lots and lots of reasons. Which is not to say they won't be successful and carve out their own niche.

If it's profitable at or near launch (and there's no reason it shouldn't be considering the possible price points leaking out in surveys and the rumored hardware) then Nintendo will be fine. 3DS is also supposed to return to profitability in a few months too. As long as they're making a profit on hardware and making Mario and Zelda games they'll be fine. They may have to scale back eventually, but they'll live.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #812 on: May 14, 2012, 03:41:02 PM »
And for what its worth Minecraft sold a million copies on 360 in 5 days. Trials Evolutions sold hundreds of thousands of copies in a similar period. That's the future to me. Those games sold more than the retail npd titles. For me that shows there is still great consumer demand for gaming on consoles or simple devices in your home. That's the transformation. It's what people want to play and how much they are willing to pay for it relative to what it is giving them that is the key. That's why devs are in trouble. Because their model isn't adapting quickly enough to what consumers actually want.

D3RANG3D

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #813 on: May 14, 2012, 04:10:13 PM »
Nintendo abandoning their carefully controlled hardware/software ecosystem?
Crazy talk.

Although there will be tons of unhappy people if WiiU doesn't quite match Wii sales.

I just don't want their underpowered hardware and gimmickry, but would buy their games digitally at steam sale prices :smug

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wouldn't buy at cutthroat prices, if they had any waggle gimmicks :D
[close]
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 04:14:10 PM by D3RANG3D »

Momo

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #814 on: May 14, 2012, 11:47:30 PM »
I recently read he is ditching the manufacture arm of TVs (panels) at the very least, if not *whelp*

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #815 on: May 14, 2012, 11:48:37 PM »
And for what its worth Minecraft sold a million copies on 360 in 5 days. Trials Evolutions sold hundreds of thousands of copies in a similar period. That's the future to me. Those games sold more than the retail npd titles. For me that shows there is still great consumer demand for gaming on consoles or simple devices in your home. That's the transformation. It's what people want to play and how much they are willing to pay for it relative to what it is giving them that is the key. That's why devs are in trouble. Because their model isn't adapting quickly enough to what consumers actually want.

I don't agree.  It's like saying back in 2007 (and many people did) that Carnival Games and Wii Play were the future of gaming.  After all, they were simple low budget games that sold shitloads of copies while larger budget titles were underperforming with publishers and developers alike struggling to get out of the quicksand trap known as next gen budgets (sry for the run on sentence).  In the end, other publishers pumped out Carnival Games and Wii Play clones to very little success.

For that reason alone, I'm not sure that developers are supposed to bank their futures on one-off titles like hipster legos (Minecraft).
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Takao

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #816 on: May 14, 2012, 11:50:47 PM »
I think the only reason the TV division only exists now is due to pride. The thing has been a money pit for the past decade, and is likely a huge part of the company's financial woes.

Takao

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #817 on: May 14, 2012, 11:51:35 PM »
Oh wow, Carnival Games. I forgot that shit even existed. Wasn't there one for Kinect? I'm guessing it sold like games on Kinect do.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #818 on: May 15, 2012, 12:01:50 AM »
Oh wow, Carnival Games. I forgot that shit even existed. Wasn't there one for Kinect? I'm guessing it sold like games on Kinect do.



I just remember when people found out it sold hundreds of thousands of copies, along with the amazing sales of Wii Play and Wii Fit that boggled all those with common sense, people, specifically Nintards, crowed that this was the real future of gaming.

Now I'm not saying that smaller budget titles with larger risks are doomed to fail, I'm just saying that I've heard this spiel before, except replace Wii Play with Minecraft.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #819 on: May 15, 2012, 12:01:53 AM »
And for what its worth Minecraft sold a million copies on 360 in 5 days. Trials Evolutions sold hundreds of thousands of copies in a similar period. That's the future to me. Those games sold more than the retail npd titles. For me that shows there is still great consumer demand for gaming on consoles or simple devices in your home. That's the transformation. It's what people want to play and how much they are willing to pay for it relative to what it is giving them that is the key. That's why devs are in trouble. Because their model isn't adapting quickly enough to what consumers actually want.

I don't agree.  It's like saying back in 2007 (and many people did) that Carnival Games and Wii Play were the future of gaming.  After all, they were simple low budget games that sold shitloads of copies while larger budget titles were underperforming with publishers and developers alike struggling to get out of the quicksand trap known as next gen budgets (sry for the run on sentence).  In the end, other publishers pumped out Carnival Games and Wii Play clones to very little success.

For that reason alone, I'm not sure that developers are supposed to bank their futures on one-off titles like hipster legos (Minecraft).

I don't think Carnival games and or Wii play and Minecraft represent the same thing or same phenomenon of gaming and this comes from someone who doens't even like Minecraft. I don't think what I'm saying is as narrow as Minecraft.

The future of games is social experiences. You can achieve that in many many ways. Whether its Call of Duty, Diablo 3, Minecraft, Demon Souls, etc ,etc. What isn't the future of games is devs making 6 to 10 hours single player only middle tier games that cost 60 bucks. The more devs adapt to that model. The more successful they will be. Because only a small number of games can sustain a mega-budget. That's why I use Minecraft. It's a game with the proper budget. The proper social model. And the proper price. I could say the exact same thing about Trials evolutions or certain iphone games or even some big blockbuster console games. There are some exceptions to this of course. Nintendo comes to mind so far. But even they will have to adapt to how the market is changing despite their unique niche.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:11:17 AM by Stoney Mason »

pilonv1

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #820 on: May 15, 2012, 12:14:55 AM »
Quote
And the proper price.

That gets back to what I said before. Smart Phones/Tablets have completely shifted the value seen in games by the general public, $60 for something that isn't Diablo 3 or the new Call Of Duty isn't good value. They don't care how much it cost you to develop, they want it priced at a point that they think it is good value.
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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #821 on: May 15, 2012, 12:17:03 AM »
i've always thought it was sort of dumb that all these years have gone by and yet, very few sony televisions with any sort of built-in playstation functionality were ever released

yeah, you and i know that those types of TVs come with all sorts of problems, but it still always seemed to me like leaving money on the table
sup

Stoney Mason

  • So Long and thanks for all the fish
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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #822 on: May 15, 2012, 12:21:56 AM »
Quote
And the proper price.

That gets back to what I said before. Smart Phones/Tablets have completely shifted the value seen in games by the general public, $60 for something that isn't Diablo 3 or the new Call Of Duty isn't good value. They don't care how much it cost you to develop, they want it priced at a point that they think it is good value.

So many games get made nowadays where I question why was this even made. Like I literally don't even understand why they thought there was a market for this. Especially once the budget has risen over a certain level. So many games seem like vanity games. Like somebody only made it for ego purposes or in the crazy idea that they could take down a genre king. People don't buy $60 dollars pieces of crap anymore. (Well they do but that's generally because they are attached to a pre-existing franchise that already has significant gaming mind-share)

At least if you go free to play or lower price there is a chance to entice a consumer by just that virtue alone. But $60 bucks for most of the stuff that gets released. Gamers have options and are just generally too educated today for some of that crap to pass. You could put out lots of crap in the old days because the budget was low. You just can't do that today. Unless you lower that budget and fundamentally change what the nature of gaming is by that fact.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:30:32 AM by Stoney Mason »

Momo

  • Nebuchadnezzar
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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #823 on: May 15, 2012, 12:22:20 AM »
Smart TVs are all a sack of shit at this point. Until they have something like android for TVs I'm not going to bother upgrading.

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #824 on: May 15, 2012, 12:29:12 AM »
Sony weirdly sections off its divisions only to combine them in weirder ways.  You have SE phones with Bravia, Walkman, Cybershot, etc. brands.  Xperia play too but I don't think that was playstation branded.  This is all recent when phones mostly converged into a one do-it-all device instead of a phone that's better at taking pictures or another that's suited for mp3 functionality.

Quote
And the proper price.

That gets back to what I said before. Smart Phones/Tablets have completely shifted the value seen in games by the general public, $60 for something that isn't Diablo 3 or the new Call Of Duty isn't good value. They don't care how much it cost you to develop, they want it priced at a point that they think it is good value.

yeah, it's odd that almost every game tries to be a blockbuster.  most seem to fail.  gaming is like a sea of John Carters.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:31:40 AM by Linkzg »

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #825 on: May 15, 2012, 12:29:36 AM »
Smart TVs are all a sack of shit at this point. Until they have something like android for TVs I'm not going to bother upgrading.



Full Android. And yes, it's by Sony. Actually was priced really well too when it came out.

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #826 on: May 15, 2012, 12:44:02 AM »
Yeah, a friend of mine picked one of those up on giveaway for US$200. He loves it.

Momo

  • Nebuchadnezzar
  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #827 on: May 15, 2012, 01:07:57 AM »
Smart TVs are all a sack of shit at this point. Until they have something like android for TVs I'm not going to bother upgrading.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EpZAf.jpg[img]

Full Android. And yes, it's by Sony. Actually was priced really well too when it came out.
That is actually something I want.

Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #828 on: May 15, 2012, 01:26:38 AM »
Oh wow, Carnival Games. I forgot that shit even existed. Wasn't there one for Kinect? I'm guessing it sold like games on Kinect do.

(Image removed from quote.)

I just remember when people found out it sold hundreds of thousands of copies, along with the amazing sales of Wii Play and Wii Fit that boggled all those with common sense, people, specifically Nintards, crowed that this was the real future of gaming.

Now I'm not saying that smaller budget titles with larger risks are doomed to fail, I'm just saying that I've heard this spiel before, except replace Wii Play with Minecraft.

???  They were the future of gaming.  Look at all the shit on iOS.  Same sort of thing.
ǚ

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #829 on: May 15, 2012, 07:00:45 AM »
Sad times ahead for the antisocial :(
sup

Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #830 on: May 15, 2012, 08:20:26 AM »
like i said, there'll always be nerds out there creating great single-player games for pc imo
pcp

Takao

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #831 on: May 15, 2012, 12:45:54 PM »
Sony x Panasonic TVs = DEATH OF BOTH

RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #832 on: May 15, 2012, 01:24:23 PM »
Sony x Panasonic TVs = DEATH OF BOTH

RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN

Yeah I saw that and had to have a laugh. :lol

EmCeeGrammar

  • Casted Flamebait lvl. 3
  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #833 on: May 15, 2012, 07:31:27 PM »
I personally feel (just talking to irl folks) there will always be an audience for consoles.  Just not on the current trajectory.
sad

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #834 on: May 16, 2012, 11:09:27 AM »
Media Create

PSV 6,340

:omg

Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #835 on: May 16, 2012, 11:14:43 AM »
i came
ǚ

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #836 on: May 16, 2012, 11:19:05 AM »
Full numbers.

Code: [Select]
3DS 46,425
PS3 12,996
PSP 12,247
Vita 6,340
Wii 6,073
PS2 1,212
Xbox 360 1,023
DSi LL 819
DSi 387

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #837 on: May 16, 2012, 11:43:39 AM »
Vita won't get as low as 5k/ week as well.

Do ho ho we might be getting there sooner than you think.

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #838 on: May 16, 2012, 11:47:39 AM »
are there new game releases in Japan or is the Vita's situation more or less the same as North America? because there's a lot of nothing for us.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Sales Talk Thread of Sales Talk and Only Sales Talk
« Reply #839 on: May 16, 2012, 11:48:02 AM »
are there new game releases in Japan or is the Vita's situation more or less the same as North America? because there's a lot of nothing for us.

PSP games, dude!