The Hobbit: An Expected Cash-In

[Cormacaroni]

New Line is using the old studio accounting trickery to claim the LOTR trilogy movies made a loss and not giving the estate a penny.


lol, the fuck?

Just shy of 3 billion worldwide gross revenue for 3 movies, and trying to claim a loss?  Suuuuure, New Line, suuuure....

Studios almost always claim a loss on big budget movies. They hide all their other smaller losses from other projects under it. i.e. that set in South Africa they built for use in a tiny art film will show up in the Mission IMpossible budget even though no part of it was filmed in South Africa. Why they are never called on this other than by talent agency reps, I don't know. But it leads to the Hollywood maxim for contracts - 'Points of the gross, not the net'. i.e. if your contract states you will get a share of the NET profits, you won't ever see a penny, no matter how much it makes at the box office. Tolkien signed the rights away decades ago of course.

Also, to be fair, the movies triggered massive sales of the books, which the estate still owns the rights to. But I still think it is vile the way they eulogize Tolkien in the special features and so on, then screw his family like this

[Boogie]

New Line is using the old studio accounting trickery to claim the LOTR trilogy movies made a loss and not giving the estate a penny.


lol, the fuck?

Just shy of 3 billion worldwide gross revenue for 3 movies, and trying to claim a loss?  Suuuuure, New Line, suuuure....

Studios almost always claim a loss on big budget movies. They hide all their other smaller losses from other projects under it. i.e. that set in South Africa they built for use in a tiny art film will show up in the Mission IMpossible budget even though no part of it was filmed in South Africa. Why they are never called on this other than by talent agency reps, I don't know. But it leads to the Hollywood maxim for contracts - 'Points of the gross, not the net'. i.e. if your contract states you will get a share of the NET profits, you won't ever see a penny, no matter how much it makes at the box office. Tolkien signed the rights away decades ago of course.

Sorry, yeah, I'm aware of that practise of the studios, generally, just amazed that they're pulling that shit on what is inarguably one of the top 10 most lucrative movie franchises in history.

[Cormacaroni]

yes, absolutely brazen and transparent.

Tolkien's estate lawyers are contesting it no doubt but i'm sure it's a huge strain on the family. Amazing how often these massive successes turn into poisoned chalices.

[Great Rumbler]

yes, absolutely brazen and transparent.

Tolkien's estate lawyers are contesting it no doubt but i'm sure it's a huge strain on the family. Amazing how often these massive successes turn into poisoned chalices.

New Line tried to do the same thing with Peter Jackson, which is why he almost didn't come back to direct The Hobbit.

By the way, The Tolkien Trust sued New Line back a few years and ended up getting a settlement of about $38 million. So, yeah, don't feel TOO sorry for poor ol' Christopher.

[ManaByte]

I guess everyone should have seen it coming, but the interview with Christopher Tolkien where he talks for the first time about the movies is depressing. New Line is using the old studio accounting trickery to claim the LOTR trilogy movies made a loss and not giving the estate a penny. Same will happen with The Hobbit. Sickening.

New Line screwed over Jackson for the exact same reason. He sued, and won. The Tolkien estate will get their money.

[Cormacaroni]

That's cool, and I realize New Line was desperately trying to stave off bankruptcy back then (probably still is? Don't follow studio gossip). It's still shitty treatment and you'd hope that settlement would have included a re-negotiation of the rights for the Hobbit so they don't have to go through it again.

[Himu]

also the misty mountain's cold as the main theme to the score was wonderful

So good

I assume everyone liked the HFR 3D? First time I felt comfortable watching 3D at the movies, it would be amazing if all action blockbusters start using this

I mostly didn't like it but I didn't find it to be a benefit to the 3d.

[ManaByte]

That's cool, and I realize New Line was desperately trying to stave off bankruptcy back then (probably still is? Don't follow studio gossip). It's still shitty treatment and you'd hope that settlement would have included a re-negotiation of the rights for the Hobbit so they don't have to go through it again.

From the stories it was partially trying to stave off bankruptcy and partially people being jealous. The people who were responsible for LOTR left New Line right after ROTK, and the new people were the ones who cooked the books and screwed over Jackson and the Estate.

They went bankrupt and New Line is nothing more than a Warner Bros. brand now.

[Cormacaroni]

People give you shit for being obsessed but I have to say you are killing it here Manabyte

[ManaByte]

BTW saw it a second time today in HFR3D. When I saw the screening Monday night there was no trailer, and this time we got Superman in 3D which looked fucking awesome in 3D.

[fistfulofmetal]

Seeing the New Line Cinema logo was a bit jarring when the movie started.

[naff]

I mostly didn't like it but I didn't find it to be a benefit to the 3d.

Bad wording, you didn't like it but you didn't find it a benefit? Did you mean you didn't like it but did find it a benefit to the 3D?

I saw this this morning and really liked it, surprisingly, considering the LOTR trilogy is terrible.

I was so bored in ROTK I nearly fell asleep. Fellowship was pretty cool, Twin Towers.. Eh, was ok. Hobbit=FOTR>TT>ROTK

[Cormacaroni]

BTW saw it a second time today in HFR3D. When I saw the screening Monday night there was no trailer, and this time we got Superman in 3D which looked fucking awesome in 3D.

bearded, eyes shut, descending naked in Jesus Christ pose...yup that's the Mort Weisinger Superman we know and love

I will go see it, and you're right about it looking great image-quality wise, but something about that pomposity really turns me off.

[chronovore]

Re-watching LOTR because The Wife hadn't seen it. She says she wants to "get ready" for The Hobbit, even though I warned her that it's unnecessary. She's game, and before I bail from Japan I want to finally watch the Extended Editions I got from Synthesizer Patel's Sayonara Sale before he bailed from Japan.

BTW saw it a second time today in HFR3D. When I saw the screening Monday night there was no trailer, and this time we got Superman in 3D which looked fucking awesome in 3D.

bearded, eyes shut, descending naked in Jesus Christ pose...yup that's the Mort Weisinger Superman we know and love

I will go see it, and you're right about it looking great image-quality wise, but something about that pomposity really turns me off.

Cormacaroni, if you watch Superman Returns again, you'll welcome anything fresh they are willing to try with the character.

[Cormacaroni]

ehhhhh, surely you should watch the Hobbit FIRST

Superman-as-Christ is the least fresh thing ever dude - a starving yogi could live for months on that stack of comics

[Great Rumbler]

Superman-as-Christ is the least fresh thing ever dude - a starving yogi could live for months on that stack of comics

Seriously. Has everyone forgotten the first episode of Smallville already?

[Himu]

I mostly didn't like it but I didn't find it to be a benefit to the 3d.

Bad wording, you didn't like it but you didn't find it a benefit? Did you mean you didn't like it but did find it a benefit to the 3D?

I saw this this morning and really liked it, surprisingly, considering the LOTR trilogy is terrible.

I was so bored in ROTK I nearly fell asleep. Fellowship was pretty cool, Twin Towers.. Eh, was ok. Hobbit=FOTR>TT>ROTK

Didn't like hfr and saw no benefit to the 3d by using it. I forgot the film was in 3d after awhile just like every other film with 3d.

[Boogie]

The new Star Trek movie in IMAX 3D previews absolutely shat on Superman reboot. I would go so far as to say it might be the best looking 3D movie ive ever seen.

Also it actually looked good; i couldnt help but feel a little meh about superman. I loved him when I was a kid, but just like Goku he lost appeal.

Was it different from the trailer that hit the net last week?

[ManaByte]

The new Star Trek movie in IMAX 3D previews absolutely shat on Superman reboot. I would go so far as to say it might be the best looking 3D movie ive ever seen.

Also it actually looked good; i couldnt help but feel a little meh about superman. I loved him when I was a kid, but just like Goku he lost appeal.

I can do without JJ Abrams lens flares in IMAX 3D, thanks.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I mostly didn't like it but I didn't find it to be a benefit to the 3d.

Bad wording, you didn't like it but you didn't find it a benefit? Did you mean you didn't like it but did find it a benefit to the 3D?

He's using "but" in the same crushingly disappointing way it's used in "I would do anything for love but I won't do that" Damn you Meatloaf! 

[bud]

i LOVED it.

but it doesn't matter. you absolutely need to see this for the hfr 3d alone. it looks fucking incredible.

[Great Rumbler]

you absolutely need to see this for the hfr 3d alone. it looks fucking incredible.

That's what I'm going to do Thursday.

[Cormacaroni]

If you didn't notice the HFR 3D, you didn't see it in HFR 3D

[BlackMage]

I saw it in Imax 3d today... 3 tickets for 50 bucks? GOT DAMN

[bud]

I saw it in Imax 3d

 

[duckman2000]

As if LOTR were good films.

[ToxicAdam]

The first one was good and an amazing accomplishment that someone could bring it to the screen.

[chronovore]

Wife and I finished Fellowship of the Ring, and she was stunned that it wasn't the end of the story. Japanese people are, for some ODD REASON, stunned that an epic story can't be told and finished in ONE FILM that lasts a mere THREE HOURS.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

To be fair, a couple years ago my wife was also stunned when I re-watched The Empire Strikes Back and she found out Darth is Luke's dad.

[close]

[Cormacaroni]

...despite the evidence of oh, One Piece, Dragon Ball, 20th Century Boys etc etc etc

[Himu]

Well, to be fair, those are comics. For Japanese, film is different prolly. Not too many Japanese films have movie spanning arcs. If there's a sequel, usually its a totally separate story.

[fistfulofmetal]

I'm gonna be seeing this again with my dad on Saturday in HFR.

[Himu]

Oh for real? I didn't even know that. How popular was it?

[Himu]

Well, I was specifically talking about Japanese film itself.

[chronovore]

Yes, there were two Death Note movies, and another based on the "L" character, who was portrayed by Kenichi Matsuyama -- a legit actor who was breaking big at the time of DN.

However, in terms of story arcs I don't think so, but Japan is no stranger to ongoing series of films. The Zatoichi movies, Waru, Minami Oo, Otoko ha Tsurai series -- dozens of each.

[Himu]

Ongoing films is one thing, but Zatoichi films and those others are all finished in one movie in self contained stories. We're talking about epic, sweeping narratives that span multiple films. Japan, in terms of its cinematic history, as far I know, its most famous films are nothing like that.

[headwalk]

my review: #t=3m31

[fistfulofmetal]

So... HFR

I can tell you one thing, HFR improves both 3D and CG effects. The improved clarity and crispness made this one of the nicest looking films I've ever seen. Everything looked so ridiculously clear ... it was a bit jarring at first.

The flashback battle at Moria looked crazy good, as did any scene with sweeping vistas viewed from a helicopter.

However the issues with HFR present themselves during any scene that involves quick cuts and fast quick actions from the characters. Examples would be: Bilbo and Frodo preparing for the party (Bilbo going around hiding all his silverware), the entire Radagast intro, and a few others. In these examples the HFR made the actions look way way too fast and comical.

I think more time needs to go into HFR and if they can fix the issue with the fast motion look I think it would prefer it over 24fps.

[headwalk]

there are few combinations more wretched than green screen and plot armour.

[ManaByte]

Made the mistake of checking it out in IMAX 3D and it looked like absolute dog shit. HFR 3D has completely ruined normal 3D movies for me.

[Great Rumbler]

Movie was good, haters gonna hate.

[Himu]

Movie was forgettable. Forgot I've already even seen it.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Movie was forgettable. Forgot I've already even seen it.

Ive watched Lotr 1 this week and it reminded me how much better it is then the hobbit.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I think the best thing I can say about this film is that I really want to go see it again. It's rare that I feel compelled to see a film twice in theaters.

Werent you also on about Avatar and how TDK deserved an Oscar or am I getting peolple mixed up?

[Great Rumbler]

The only thing I really didn't like about The Hobbit was the earlier scene with Radagast, which embodied the worst of what they're doing with this film trilogy. Meaning that it was a totally extraneous scene that served no purpose and ultimately bogged down the flow of the movie. It was also painfully bad.

Most of the scenes in the very beginning, with old Bilbo and Frodo, could have gone, as well, as could the scene with Gandalf talking to the Council, since nothing all that important came out of it other than to reinforce what was already very obvious about all four characters.

[Joe Molotov]

I loved The Hobbit. Yeah, it was boring, but I'm invoking fryinghigh's defense of TNG in that it was the good kind of boring. A kind of boring I could settle in and watch all day. Stretch it out to four movies, I don't care; bring it on.

[Barry Egan]

It's almost as if Peter Jackson realized he wasn't paying proper respect to Tolkiens style by leaving out all the details that don't mean anything. 

[Human Snorenado]

.Most of the scenes in the very beginning, with old Bilbo and Frodo, could have gone, as well, as could the scene with Gandalf talking to the Council, since nothing all that important came out of it other than to reinforce what was already very obvious about all four characters.

That Saruman is Switzerland (but secretly Hitler), Elrond is a racist, Gandalf is a meddler and Galadriel is hot? 

I agree.  Man, is Galadriel hot.  If only they could figure out how to get my future ex-girlfriend Miranda Otto back in these movies.

[Great Rumbler]

.Most of the scenes in the very beginning, with old Bilbo and Frodo, could have gone, as well, as could the scene with Gandalf talking to the Council, since nothing all that important came out of it other than to reinforce what was already very obvious about all four characters.

That Saruman is Switzerland (but secretly Hitler), Elrond is a racist, Gandalf is a meddler and Galadriel is hot? 

I agree.  Man, is Galadriel hot.  If only they could figure out how to get my future ex-girlfriend Miranda Otto back in these movies.

Pretty much, yeah, although I was going to say that Elrond is cautious to a fault and Gandalf and Galadriel are "secretly" in love but it's totally platonic and will never go anywhere.

[Phoenix Dark]

uhh but Gandalf can indeed die.

[Mupepe]

Yeah. Gandalf is very aware (not scared) that he can die throughout all of the lore.

[Joe Molotov]

Why are you reading Youtube comments sections? Of course they're dumb, they're the Youtube comments section.

[Robo]

I dunno, I think stinknuggits69 is on to something there.

[Mupepe]

You sound more pissed that the nerds interject their own interpretations rather than how the movies reflect the books description of Gandalf. Nerds are intolerable on any subject.

the movies do a pretty good job of not mixing other tolkien lore too much.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't think any of the four movies have ever really tried to play up Gandalf as being some kind of Superman-esque character, as that video you just posted shows.

[BlueTsunami]

Have had a week to really think on this and I really do think its going to be a bloated mess by what I've seen so far. Trading levity with poignant moments and mood for almost reference like comprehensiveness of everything the book has to offer and even things outside the scope of the book.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

We went to it last night with some friends of ours and I personally couldn't wait for the thing to end.  It definitely got better once they got out of Rivendale but the story is so thin I can't imagine how they're going to stretch this over two more movies.  Maybe the addition of the Necromancer will help, I don't know, but right now I couldn't give two shits about Smaug and his gold fetish.

Radagast is crossing over into Jar Jar territory IMO.  That better be the last we see of that guy.

[AdmiralViscen]

You sound more pissed that the nerds interject their own interpretations rather than how the movies reflect the books description of Gandalf. Nerds are intolerable on any subject.

the movies do a pretty good job of not mixing other tolkien lore too much.

They would be sued by the Tolkien estate if they mixed in one word of other tolkein lore, lol

[recursivelyenumerable]

The nerds ruin everything. It's kind of like the Marvel nerds who got pissed that Thor didn't completely curbstomp Iron Man when they fought in The Avengers. But what's interesting about Tolkien's lore is that it changes so much between The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. Gandalf goes from being a wizard to being an angelic being on the same level as Sauron, but who is obligated not to interfere too much in mortal affairs. I'm glad they've kept him more on the grounded side in the films.

Tolkien had been working on his mythology (that eventually and posthumously got published as the Silmarillion) before writing The Hobbit, but The Hobbit originally wasn't really meant to be part of the mythology - it borrowed some names/places/ideas from it for color/background, but was basically a standalone adventure story, separate "canon". When he went to do LOTR as a sequel he decided to make it an official part of the mythology, and so retconned a bunch of it into The Hobbit and vice versa.

[fistfulofmetal]

You sound more pissed that the nerds interject their own interpretations rather than how the movies reflect the books description of Gandalf. Nerds are intolerable on any subject.

the movies do a pretty good job of not mixing other tolkien lore too much.

They would be sued by the Tolkien estate if they mixed in one word of other tolkein lore, lol

which is why Gandalf doesnt remember the name of the two blue wizard I believe.

[Van Cruncheon]

I loved The Hobbit. Yeah, it was boring, but I'm invoking fryinghigh's defense of TNG in that it was the good kind of boring. A kind of boring I could settle in and watch all day. Stretch it out to four movies, I don't care; bring it on.

this