Author Topic: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD  (Read 36624 times)

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Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #120 on: December 14, 2012, 06:24:02 PM »
Perhaps the middle ground we could see
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/a_path_to_change_maybe.php?ref=fpblg
Except that banning them previously did nothing to the statistics.  I love when the left, who loves to (rightfully) use statistics to back up their arguments clearly ignores statistics on previous attempts of gun control.  And this guy (althoug he comes from a "gun owning family") doesn't seem to know much about guns.  These assault rifles basically are hunting guns.  A Colt LE6920 is a scarier looking version of a Ruger Ranch Rifle.  If this guy wants to legislate what firearms I can and cannot own I'd appreciate it if he did a little bit of research.  That is what bugs gun owners.  How effective can legislation be coming from people who are so unfamiliar with the subject?

Why are they so easily obtained though?

Mupepe

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #121 on: December 14, 2012, 06:25:12 PM »
Perhaps the middle ground we could see
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/a_path_to_change_maybe.php?ref=fpblg
Except that banning them previously did nothing to the statistics.  I love when the left, who loves to (rightfully) use statistics to back up their arguments clearly ignores statistics on previous attempts of gun control.  And this guy (althoug he comes from a "gun owning family") doesn't seem to know much about guns.  These assault rifles basically are hunting guns.  A Colt LE6920 is a scarier looking version of a Ruger Ranch Rifle.  If this guy wants to legislate what firearms I can and cannot own I'd appreciate it if he did a little bit of research.  That is what bugs gun owners.  How effective can legislation be coming from people who are so unfamiliar with the subject?

Why are they so easily obtained though?
You apparently missed my earlier post where I emphasized required classes for ownership and tighter (including mental health) background checks.  Not to mention a real push for mental health in this country.

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #122 on: December 14, 2012, 06:27:48 PM »
You apparently missed my earlier post where I emphasized required classes for ownership and tighter (including mental health) background checks.  Not to mention a real push for mental health in this country.

Well I agree with all that. I think more hurdles are a great idea for pretty much every gun.

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Mupepe

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #124 on: December 14, 2012, 06:33:28 PM »
You apparently missed my earlier post where I emphasized required classes for ownership and tighter (including mental health) background checks.  Not to mention a real push for mental health in this country.

Well I agree with all that. I think more hurdles are a great idea for pretty much every gun.
As do I.  My point was that massive damage can be done with any firearm.  There just happens to be a group that scares that scares the public more than average.  It's an ill defined group of firearms determined by the ignorant media because hey, it's easier to generalize than do real research.  Everytime something likes this happens I cringe listening to/watching the news because so many terms are used interchangeably and incorrectly: automatic/semi automatic, machine gun/rifle, glock/pistol, etc.  And of course assault rifle has turned into a red word by literally calling anything with a long barrel that is semi automatic an assault rifle.

I believe it was Drinky that said that firearm control is the left's version of a culture war.  Wanting to do away something that scares them and that they vaguely understand.  Everytime I hear someone's thoughts on gun control it's the first thing that pops into my mind and I completely agree.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 06:35:06 PM by Mupepe »

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #125 on: December 14, 2012, 06:39:26 PM »
As do I.  My point was that massive damage can be done with any firearm.  There just happens to be a group that scares that scares the public more than average.  It's an ill defined group of firearms determined by the ignorant media because hey, it's easier to generalize than do real research.  Everytime something likes this happens I cringe listening to/watching the news because so many terms are used interchangeably and incorrectly: automatic/semi automatic, machine gun/rifle, glock/pistol, etc.  And of course assault rifle has turned into a red word by literally calling anything with a long barrel that is semi automatic an assault rifle.

I believe it was Drinky that said that firearm control is the left's version of a culture war.  Wanting to do away something that scares them and that they vaguely understand.  Everytime I hear someone's thoughts on gun control it's the first thing that pops into my mind and I completely agree.

Yeah any time a shooting happens it's always "he had an assault rifle." So I never actually believe it until confirmed reports. The people who want to ban guns entirely are idealistic idiots. At some point I want a weapon for home defense because well I've already been peeped at from a stranger outside. But I would be content in having to go through a lengthy process to obtain one because I'd know they're doing this to others who really should not have one.

Mupepe

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #126 on: December 14, 2012, 06:41:17 PM »
As do I.  My point was that massive damage can be done with any firearm.  There just happens to be a group that scares that scares the public more than average.  It's an ill defined group of firearms determined by the ignorant media because hey, it's easier to generalize than do real research.  Everytime something likes this happens I cringe listening to/watching the news because so many terms are used interchangeably and incorrectly: automatic/semi automatic, machine gun/rifle, glock/pistol, etc.  And of course assault rifle has turned into a red word by literally calling anything with a long barrel that is semi automatic an assault rifle.

I believe it was Drinky that said that firearm control is the left's version of a culture war.  Wanting to do away something that scares them and that they vaguely understand.  Everytime I hear someone's thoughts on gun control it's the first thing that pops into my mind and I completely agree.

Yeah any time a shooting happens it's always "he had an assault rifle." So I never actually believe it until confirmed reports. The people who want to ban guns entirely are idealistic idiots. At some point I want a weapon for home defense because well I've already been peeped at from a stranger outside. But I would be content in having to go through a lengthy process to obtain one because I'd know they're doing this to others who really should not have one.
Same here.  And also because I'm disgusted by how terrible most gun owners are too.  Most are idiots.  They don't follow the basic rules of safety and I'd love for them to be forced to sit through a few fucking classes.  Ugh.  Going to a gun store is usually a terrible ordeal because I get scared that half of those idiots will be walking out with a deadly weapon.

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #127 on: December 14, 2012, 06:44:10 PM »
The other people I despise is the "I have this arsenal in the case the gov goes rogue" defenders. The government will WACO your ass before you can do shit.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #128 on: December 14, 2012, 06:49:39 PM »
Nothing is going to happen in terms of gun reform.  Keep dreaming those dreams.
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Mupepe

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #129 on: December 14, 2012, 06:52:44 PM »
The other people I despise is the "I have this arsenal in the case the gov goes rogue" defenders. The government will WACO your ass before you can do shit.
those are just nutty. I like doomsday preppers. There's something endearing about them

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #130 on: December 14, 2012, 06:53:57 PM »
The other people I despise is the "I have this arsenal in the case the gov goes rogue" defenders. The government will WACO your ass before you can do shit.
those are just nutty. I like doomsday preppers. There's something endearing about them

When the zombie apocalypse comes you fuckers will be thanking me.


Phoenix Dark

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #132 on: December 14, 2012, 08:23:04 PM »
my mom has almost completely been devastated by this story all day. I feel horrible about this but I can't even imagine what a parent would be feeling at the mere thought of this
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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #133 on: December 14, 2012, 08:27:46 PM »
my mom has almost completely been devastated by this story all day. I feel horrible about this but I can't even imagine what a parent would be feeling at the mere thought of this

Yeah, this has clearly affected my brother hard.  He posted a rant on facebook about the absurd lengths he wants to go to in order to protect his daughter because of this.
MMA

Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #134 on: December 14, 2012, 08:37:46 PM »
Quote from: Mupepe
Same here.  And also because I'm disgusted by how terrible most gun owners are too.  Most are idiots.  They don't follow the basic rules of safety and I'd love for them to be forced to sit through a few fucking classes.  Ugh.  Going to a gun store is usually a terrible ordeal because I get scared that half of those idiots will be walking out with a deadly weapon.

Problem being, reasonable gun-owners lack the stridency and volume of the irresponsible. Rather than reasonable people convening on both sides, you have the extremities arguing crosswise at each other. Sure, it's a "duh" statement but hugely descriptive of American politics.

As an aside, it's things like this:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/09/joseph_loughrey_shoots_kills_son_outside_gun_store.html

...couched in mealy language, i.e. "accidentally," that upset me. My puckered anus, "accidentally." It was obviously not his intention to harm his son but it wasn't an act without volition. The father claims that when placing the gun into the center console of his car, it discharged. It's inept, thoughtless handling of a firearm, due to an avoidable carelessness with a weapon.

My uncle lives in TX (like you), owns an arsenal of guns, huge advocate of gun-ownership, Republican to the core, life-long NRA member, yadda-yadda-yadda, funny, caring guy, who I admire greatly. The above incident angered him to no end. We disagree about the availability and access to guns (let alone the politics), by degree. But we don't disagree that responsible gun ownership isn't the problem needing amelioration. Getting to a better notion of what "responsible" looks like should be a priority of both sides, while marginalizing those holding positions on either extreme of gun ownership.

But fuck me if 20-something white malcontents don't seem to be getting scarier and more lethal. Get laid, honkies.

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #135 on: December 14, 2012, 08:55:49 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Boogie

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #136 on: December 14, 2012, 09:00:49 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Realistically speaking, if a person (or, more likely, multiple persons) have decided to break into your home, armed, while you are home, you are fucked.  Sleeping with a 9 mil under your pillow ain't going to change that.

I find that the myth of "home defense uber alles" to be one of the most baffling aspects of American culture.  Unless there are scores upon scores of articles and incidents of home invasions being repelled by intrepid shotgun-wielding citizens that I am simply unaware of...
MMA

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #137 on: December 14, 2012, 09:04:14 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Realistically speaking, if a person (or, more likely, multiple persons) have decided to break into your home, armed, while you are home, you are fucked.  Sleeping with a 9 mil under your pillow ain't going to change that.

I find that the myth of "home defense uber alles" to be one of the most baffling aspects of American culture.  Unless there are scores upon scores of articles and incidents of home invasions being repelled by intrepid shotgun-wielding citizens that I am simply unaware of...

I know people who've basically scared others away. It happens. I guess you could just let that guy on drugs ramming your door come in though. But that's the extent of it, I don't know people who've actually shot and protected themselves in that manner.

Great Rumbler

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #138 on: December 14, 2012, 09:35:47 PM »
I find that the myth of "home defense uber alles" to be one of the most baffling aspects of American culture.  Unless there are scores upon scores of articles and incidents of home invasions being repelled by intrepid shotgun-wielding citizens that I am simply unaware of...

Not to suggest that this is something that can be extrapolated to all situations, but there was actually an incident near where I live where a twelve-year-old girl shot an intruder while home alone.
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Van Cruncheon

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #139 on: December 14, 2012, 10:00:15 PM »
this doesn't change my stance on guns

it changes my stance on the requirements for obtaining them



pretty much this
duc

Barry Egan

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #140 on: December 14, 2012, 10:05:14 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Realistically speaking, if a person (or, more likely, multiple persons) have decided to break into your home, armed, while you are home, you are fucked.  Sleeping with a 9 mil under your pillow ain't going to change that.

I find that the myth of "home defense uber alles" to be one of the most baffling aspects of American culture.  Unless there are scores upon scores of articles and incidents of home invasions being repelled by intrepid shotgun-wielding citizens that I am simply unaware of...

I couldn't find that specific compendium, but I did find something similar.


Steve Contra

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #141 on: December 14, 2012, 10:17:57 PM »
It would be amazing to work in an industry where one of your products could be involved in the massacre of 20 children and you would see a short term sales increase.  Gun executives have to love having such a dumb, paranoid clientele.
vin

Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #142 on: December 14, 2012, 10:39:51 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Err, this is Das Bore. Isn't that the desired outcome?

Or have I grossly misunderstood the cultural milieu of bro-love here?

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #143 on: December 14, 2012, 10:40:05 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Realistically speaking, if a person (or, more likely, multiple persons) have decided to break into your home, armed, while you are home, you are fucked.  Sleeping with a 9 mil under your pillow ain't going to change that.

I find that the myth of "home defense uber alles" to be one of the most baffling aspects of American culture.  Unless there are scores upon scores of articles and incidents of home invasions being repelled by intrepid shotgun-wielding citizens that I am simply unaware of...

I couldn't find that specific compendium, but I did find something similar.

(Image removed from quote.)

Can't see pic.


Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Err, this is Das Bore. Isn't that the desired outcome?

Or have I grossly misunderstood the cultural milieu of bro-love here?

 :o

Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #144 on: December 14, 2012, 10:43:10 PM »
 :-*

Joe Molotov

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #145 on: December 14, 2012, 10:43:17 PM »
Some people don't even think you should be allowed a gun for home defense. Excuse me while I just let someone brutally fuck me over.  :-\

Err, this is Das Bore. Isn't that the desired outcome?

Or have I grossly misunderstood the cultural milieu of bro-love here?

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Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #146 on: December 14, 2012, 10:50:43 PM »
*throws her cooties around*

Bet you want guns now.

DCharlieJP

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #147 on: December 14, 2012, 10:58:19 PM »
O=X

Groogrux

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2012, 01:02:03 AM »
my mom has almost completely been devastated by this story all day. I feel horrible about this but I can't even imagine what a parent would be feeling at the mere thought of this

I can't get it out of my mind.  It really upsets me to think that this just has easily could have been my son.  He's in kindergarten...

The media coverage has been a double-edged sword today.  While I appreciate that they have covered this for the general public to know what's going on, I hate that they have compromised the value of finding the truthful information in lieu of reporting whatever they can get as fast as they can get it.

In here, I don't mind talking about gun control, because this thread will last and this is as good a thread as any to discuss it.  But I hate the people that have used it to jump up on their soapboxes on Facebook, Twitter, and IRL to make this a gun control issue.  Once again, valuable, precious, and innocent lives were lost today and I hate when people make light of it like they do.

There's really nothing about this that is funny. 
WTF

Shadow Mod

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2012, 01:12:36 AM »
Outliving your child as a parent must be the worst and then to have it happen like this  :-\

Human Snorenado

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2012, 01:16:03 AM »
I just wish the media would stay the fuck away from those kids that survived and families.  Those kids are gonna be fucked up for life.
yar

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2012, 01:24:21 AM »

Groogrux

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2012, 01:27:52 AM »
I just wish the media would stay the fuck away from those kids that survived and families.  Those kids are gonna be fucked up for life.

Agreed.  They have extremely hard lives ahead of them.  The ripples from this event will affect their lives and the lives of those closest to them until long after they have gone.
WTF

Dickie Dee

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2012, 01:30:39 AM »
___

Shadow Mod

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Himu

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #156 on: December 15, 2012, 02:53:18 AM »
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #157 on: December 15, 2012, 04:45:36 AM »
Nadine Should Bail Out. Nice name.
IYKYK


drew

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #159 on: December 15, 2012, 06:52:45 AM »
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45445282&postcount=1397

say what distinguished black fellow

oh man this gaf thread is great

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #160 on: December 15, 2012, 08:18:43 AM »
Just woke up to this news. Ya don goofed up, America. When minors are getting mass murdered the strong push for "gunz ban" will gain serious traction this time and has some chance of being pushed through.

See here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-s-goodman/gun-control-reform_b_2302999.html

Also fucking disgusted at the Twitter ABC pic. Journalists are the scum of earth.

Not going to happen.  Republicans aren't going to do it and any Democrat that is up for re-election in 2014 isn't going to do it.  At the very best, we'll have some really watered down reform that is going to do precisely jack shit.
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Diunx

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #161 on: December 15, 2012, 08:21:24 AM »
If something is not done about firearms after this I don't even know what to say Americans, sadly your country does not have the psychological capacity for legal firearms.

I wish as hell they'll be ban here too, that shit has no place in a civilized society.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #162 on: December 15, 2012, 08:55:16 AM »
If something is not done about firearms after this I don't even know what to say Americans, sadly your country does not have the psychological capacity for legal firearms.

I wish as hell they'll be ban here too, that shit has no place in a civilized society.

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Eel O'Brian

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #163 on: December 15, 2012, 08:58:20 AM »
I just wish the media would stay the fuck away from those kids that survived and families.  Those kids are gonna be fucked up for life.

Goddamned right. I would say "when did this kind of behavior become acceptable," but sleazy reporters have always been around. They've just never had the kind of immediate access to the grieving that they have nowadays. This kind of "news gathering" will continue. News media as a whole will never acquire self-awareness (or, more likely, they already know and just don't care).

On another note, I am glad that some of the discussion has been less reactionary and more focused on mental health issues. Not gonna go into any details, but there has been some unsettling stuff going on in my fiance's household for the past couple of months, and people seem to be taking their sweet time in giving her assistance. Maybe they'll step it up a bit now that the issue has come to the forefront.
sup

Diunx

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #164 on: December 15, 2012, 09:14:42 AM »
If something is not done about firearms after this I don't even know what to say Americans, sadly your country does not have the psychological capacity for legal firearms.

I wish as hell they'll be ban here too, that shit has no place in a civilized society.

The 3rd world metal gear solid fan is smarter than Drew, who would have known

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MrAngryFace

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #165 on: December 15, 2012, 09:53:36 AM »
I've been avoiding the news and discussions with friends- im too far removed to feel anything "real" about it, and I don't feel like spending time in discussions with folks on either side that view the solution as a LOTSA GUNS MORE GUNS or NO GUNS GUNS ARE SATAN. There's a harder truth that comes at a much larger cost that involves society being there for the trigger person before they view that as the solution. People don't wanna talk about that- they just wanna cry or rage and operate all binary and its fucking disappointing. It should be more difficult to own ANY gun, EVERY gun should require a background check regardless of stopping power, but at the same time how bout everyone start spending less time being snarky reactionary dicks and more time at least attempting to look out for others.

Im a liberal that owns a gun that I want to take target shooting at some point- it  doesn't make me a bad person; there's so much MORE to a bad person - and what folks should really worry about is the intent to kill with no thought of self preservation because THAT is far more dangerous than any weapon.
o_0

drew

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #166 on: December 15, 2012, 10:10:31 AM »
i bet you think about me when you're taking a shower. aren't you like 40 or something, sad.

MrAngryFace

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #167 on: December 15, 2012, 10:24:19 AM »
That's a bit random but ok
o_0

Don Flamenco

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #168 on: December 15, 2012, 10:28:02 AM »
If something is not done about firearms after this I don't even know what to say Americans, sadly your country does not have the psychological capacity for legal firearms.

I wish as hell they'll be ban here too, that shit has no place in a civilized society.


if you look at the numbers, our country actually has the psychological capacity for guns.  Just that a couple times a year, one of 100s of millions of people goes haywire.  Banning guns may have stopped this guy from impulsively (assuming it was impulsive) shooting people up, while it wouldn't do anything for premeditated stuff like the TDK killer.  that's really all there is to it, which is why I'm 50/50 on banning them. 

Also, there's the matter of reclaiming guns from people who have them...no way would it be 100% successful.  The black market for guns would boom like crazy-- "hey, why give your gun to the gov't when I will pay you double."  No shortage of people who would hop on that.  Would we really be any more secure?  The chances for a random shooting wouldn't necessarily go down, I don't think.   Guns might be one of those things you can't really take back.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 10:31:37 AM by Don Flamenco »

drew

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #169 on: December 15, 2012, 11:12:26 AM »
That's a bit random but ok

haha i was talking to shithead, not you maf, love ya

anyways man i thought some of you guys were nutty but damn that gaf thread is full of some real loons. ban every lethal weapon? is this real life?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 11:14:32 AM by drew »

Human Snorenado

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #170 on: December 15, 2012, 11:28:21 AM »
Even I realize that's impractical.  I just wish it was harder for crazy people to get guns.  I own four, but there's a difference between owning guns and fucking worshiping them.
yar

Don Flamenco

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #171 on: December 15, 2012, 12:38:09 PM »
also, if the gov't started reclaiming guns, there'd probably be a record number of shootings in a short period of time.  Think truthers are nuts?  See what happens when the gov't tries to take their guns that protect them from the gov't.   

Mupepe

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #172 on: December 15, 2012, 12:42:39 PM »
Quote from: Mupepe
Same here.  And also because I'm disgusted by how terrible most gun owners are too.  Most are idiots.  They don't follow the basic rules of safety and I'd love for them to be forced to sit through a few fucking classes.  Ugh.  Going to a gun store is usually a terrible ordeal because I get scared that half of those idiots will be walking out with a deadly weapon.

Problem being, reasonable gun-owners lack the stridency and volume of the irresponsible. Rather than reasonable people convening on both sides, you have the extremities arguing crosswise at each other. Sure, it's a "duh" statement but hugely descriptive of American politics.

As an aside, it's things like this:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/09/joseph_loughrey_shoots_kills_son_outside_gun_store.html

...couched in mealy language, i.e. "accidentally," that upset me. My puckered anus, "accidentally." It was obviously not his intention to harm his son but it wasn't an act without volition. The father claims that when placing the gun into the center console of his car, it discharged. It's inept, thoughtless handling of a firearm, due to an avoidable carelessness with a weapon.

My uncle lives in TX (like you), owns an arsenal of guns, huge advocate of gun-ownership, Republican to the core, life-long NRA member, yadda-yadda-yadda, funny, caring guy, who I admire greatly. The above incident angered him to no end. We disagree about the availability and access to guns (let alone the politics), by degree. But we don't disagree that responsible gun ownership isn't the problem needing amelioration. Getting to a better notion of what "responsible" looks like should be a priority of both sides, while marginalizing those holding positions on either extreme of gun ownership.

But fuck me if 20-something white malcontents don't seem to be getting scarier and more lethal. Get laid, honkies.
agreed on pretty much all points.

what the average gun owner considers "firearm safety" is downright scary. I believe a lot of it has to do with a lack of familiarity. When you are comfortable and experienced with your gun you are much more likely to handle it in a respectful manner. It boggles my mind that checking to see if it is loaded is not the first action taken by any person.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #173 on: December 15, 2012, 12:59:10 PM »
Even I realize that's impractical.  I just wish it was harder for crazy people to get guns.  I own four, but there's a difference between owning guns and fucking worshiping them.

this. we have a paranoid culture that we foster and encourage, promoting the idea that we stand alone. this sort of viral thinking really infects the minds of people with severe mental issues who aready feel outcast and isolated, and who have no prospects for a "normal" life or career due to economic or psychological reasons. it's the same base memetic pathology that infects the minds of suicide bombers and terrorists: bright, mentally fragile middle-class people who are pushed by their culture into a paranoid fugue, and then handed a means of destruction and told that their raison d'etre is a higher form of justice. bad, bad juju.

nevermind that our media is a fucking CELEBRATION of outrage. and then we tack on the last decade-plus contempt for federal and state support services, which makes outreach and monitoring impossible. we're a bunch of selfish fucks and these events are the wages of our skeptical, paranoid contempt -- the bloody artifacts of a society that believes it NEEDS guns to survive.


thaaaaaat said, the handwringing, thoughtless fear of my college intellectual pals on facebook is really annoying. banning guns is a simplistic panacea for a complex issue. BUBUBUBUBU DEATH TOTEMS, GET THEM AWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYY FROM OUR CHEEEEELLLLDREN
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 01:09:01 PM by Van Cruncheon »
duc

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #174 on: December 15, 2012, 01:14:25 PM »
I grew up around guns.  Had them all over the house and weren't locked away.  I didn't even need to be told not to fuck around them because it was obvious what would happen if I do.

I think the mental health discussion is proper.  We're all supposed to be Nietzschean Supermen as we continually get shat on by stagnant wages, perpetually uncertain career prospects and futures, eroding workplace rights, eroding benefits, and supposed to clap and cheer loudly for a small group of people who reap the rewards of that system.  I can see how that turns already unstable people into potential killers.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #175 on: December 15, 2012, 01:16:38 PM »
The worst is the Jesus people.  I got into it with a woman today who posted one of those "we took Jesus out of the classroom blah blah blah" things.  Couldn't refrain from some snarkiness and saying, you know, there are concrete things we could do AS PEOPLE AND NOT DEITIES to make life better on this planet right now aside from praying or putting bibles in classrooms.

She shot back that she agreed but said that if he'd been raised right this wouldn't have happened.  He had a form of autism apparently and wasn't all there.  Plus, it's insulting to me as a non-believer that somehow if you're raised to do good things because you believe a space fairy will reward you in the afterlife you're somehow better than me and more likely to turn out as a good person.  Fuck that idiocy in the ear.
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MrAngryFace

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #176 on: December 15, 2012, 02:56:58 PM »
Quote from: Mupepe
Same here.  And also because I'm disgusted by how terrible most gun owners are too.  Most are idiots.  They don't follow the basic rules of safety and I'd love for them to be forced to sit through a few fucking classes.  Ugh.  Going to a gun store is usually a terrible ordeal because I get scared that half of those idiots will be walking out with a deadly weapon.

Problem being, reasonable gun-owners lack the stridency and volume of the irresponsible. Rather than reasonable people convening on both sides, you have the extremities arguing crosswise at each other. Sure, it's a "duh" statement but hugely descriptive of American politics.

As an aside, it's things like this:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/09/joseph_loughrey_shoots_kills_son_outside_gun_store.html

...couched in mealy language, i.e. "accidentally," that upset me. My puckered anus, "accidentally." It was obviously not his intention to harm his son but it wasn't an act without volition. The father claims that when placing the gun into the center console of his car, it discharged. It's inept, thoughtless handling of a firearm, due to an avoidable carelessness with a weapon.

My uncle lives in TX (like you), owns an arsenal of guns, huge advocate of gun-ownership, Republican to the core, life-long NRA member, yadda-yadda-yadda, funny, caring guy, who I admire greatly. The above incident angered him to no end. We disagree about the availability and access to guns (let alone the politics), by degree. But we don't disagree that responsible gun ownership isn't the problem needing amelioration. Getting to a better notion of what "responsible" looks like should be a priority of both sides, while marginalizing those holding positions on either extreme of gun ownership.

But fuck me if 20-something white malcontents don't seem to be getting scarier and more lethal. Get laid, honkies.
agreed on pretty much all points.

what the average gun owner considers "firearm safety" is downright scary. I believe a lot of it has to do with a lack of familiarity. When you are comfortable and experienced with your gun you are much more likely to handle it in a respectful manner. It boggles my mind that checking to see if it is loaded is not the first action taken by any person.

Word, i'm not even taking my .22 LR out shooting until I get off my ass and take a class on shooting and maintenance- until then it sits in my closet empty
o_0

Himu

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #177 on: December 15, 2012, 03:05:19 PM »
I can't say ban all guns because that is unrealistic and not understanding to everyone's way of living, which is understandable when you live in a city livin' urban bubble. But I have a friend whose family owns a ranch in west Texas, and they have run ins with locals and even people from the Mexican border (cartel) that use crazy ass high power combat rifles. In turn, they (the family) have to match their weapon set. Him telling his story of his family's farm in west Texas really was an eye opener for me as far as the gun thing goes because some people really DO need them for sustenance.
IYKYK

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #178 on: December 15, 2012, 03:08:23 PM »
I dunno how you loons are still debating gun laws, smh, really.

Its all fun and games but your country has some distinguished mentally-challenged laws from 300 years ago, but you seem to be slowly coming around. Its your country though so more power to ya, but any civilized human from a normal country doesnt feel like they need a gun for protection.

The feeling of needing a gun should only raise its head in a failed state somewhere in the jungle.

Still its your country and your laws this is just my 2 cents.

Steve Contra

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Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #179 on: December 15, 2012, 03:26:55 PM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.
vin