another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD

[drew]

yeah just looked that up and edited my post

with select fore capability.

haha



yes, this is a real product

[Great Rumbler]

it is about the ability of the people to protect themselves from tyrannical government

Good luck with that.

[drew]

yeah no shit, feds have drones, man. you can't beat drones, or apaches for that matter.  any uprising would get utterly crushed.

[Groogrux]

Yes, the gunman probably has no problem with dying.  The armed guard would have no problem assisting them with that.

Assuming the armed guard isn't the first person to be shot.

True, but hopefully the guy gets a shot off on the gunman or at least acts as a warning system to buy the other potential targets more time.

[Himu]

yeah no shit, feds have drones, man. you can't beat drones, or apaches for that matter.  any uprising would get utterly crushed.

the day america uses drones on its own citizens on its own soil is the day foreign nations help us out, because that doesn't help them one bit. more than that, i just can't see america using drones on its own soil. give me one good reason the government would do that beyond being some cute, naive conspiracy theory?

[Human Snorenado]

yeah no shit, feds have drones, man. you can't beat drones, or apaches for that matter.  any uprising would get utterly crushed.

the day america uses drones on its own citizens on its own soil is the day foreign nations help us out, because that doesn't help them one bit. more than that, i just can't see america using drones on its own soil. give me one good reason the government would do that beyond being some cute, naive conspiracy theory?

...wiping out an NRA convention?  Shit, I'm just saying what *I* would do if I were Pres.  Never mind.

[Himu]

I mean, quelling protests and shit is one thing, but using drones? I dunno man. Doesn't seem to be any real benefit.

[Human Snorenado]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16069042-four-killed-including-gunman-in-shooting-incident-in-pennsylvania-three-troopers-injured?lite

IF ONLY THERE HAD BEEN PEOPLE WITH GUNS TO STOP HIM

[Boogie]

Ya, the only way to lower the gun homicide rate is to post armed guards everywhere!

Because that's how all those other first world countries got their homicide rates to be one-quarter that of America's!

Oh wait.

[drew]

the day america uses drones on its own citizens on its own soil is the day foreign nations help us out, because that doesn't help them one bit. more than that, i just can't see america using drones on its own soil. give me one good reason the government would do that beyond being some cute, naive conspiracy theory?

conspiracy? the NDAA which was passed (even after Obama said numerous times that he wouldn't sign it) specifically gave them the ability to legally fly drones over United States soil.  why would they do it? because now they can. simple as that.

[Eric P]

http://news.yahoo.com/military-drones-prowl-us-skies-204238872.html

BLACK UN DRONACOPTERS

[Stoney Mason]

I avoid threads like this on principle but I'll dip in to say only in modern America where its obvious what the problem is but nothing can be done about it because large portions of this country are stuck in the 18th century. Maybe in another 200 hundred years...

[drew]

you shouldn't legislate for a minuscule minority and punish millions of people because of the former's actions.

[Steve Contra]

I agree, we should stop screening people at airports.

I will say that I'm pretty stunned that the NRA would even say something, especially something as idiotic as that.  They have the reputation for being savvy and all, but that was pretty amazingly stupid.

[Mupepe]

I agree, we should stop screening people at airports.

I will say that I'm pretty stunned that the NRA would even say something, especially something as idiotic as that.  They have the reputation for being savvy and all, but that was pretty amazingly stupid.

This is my reaction.  I can't believe this is the defense they came up with.  I would have thought conceding to mental health background checks and re evaluating mental health in our society would be their defense.  This is just... wow.  I'd be pissed if I was an NRA member.  They just dropped the ball big time.  Most Americans are going to roll their eyes at this and all agree that the NRA is fucking crazy.  They just made the average gun owner look crazy.

[TakingBackSunday]

jesus christ someone leper drew

[Steve Contra]

A database of mentally ill people!  Jesus fucking christ.

[Mupepe]

In all honesty the "cost of living in a free society" argument would have played better in the media.  Christ.  Say goodbye to AR's and high capacity magazines.  If this is the best that the almight gun lobbying group can come up with then any pushback on legislation is fucked.

[Verdigris Murder]

It's basically the most awful response. It's a bit like offering a rape victim a cushion to cry into.

NRA trying to deal with an event like this is like trying to get a racist to realise that not all Muslims are crazy, whilst showing him the 9/11 money shot on repeat with that morning wake up c

[Cerveza mas fina]

A database of mentally ill people!  Jesus fucking christ.

Amen.

[Don Flamenco]

the guns should have little guns on them that shoot the user of the gun when he shoots the wrong people.

[brawndolicious]

Hahah I didnt even think about it that way. Im suprised they wanna arm the federal govnmt.

Best to send your kid to school with a luger in case the fed guard tries to usurp power.

I'm sure they would prefer that it was civilian volunteers like PTA parents or something. I'm serious.

[Boogie]

A database of mentally ill people!  Jesus fucking christ.

Hitler would be proud.

[brawndolicious]

an armed guard in every school really would be the only thing that would protect kids from another shooting.  he made a good point about banks and the pres, did you know that a lot of the most outspoken anti gunners in politics personally hire armed security, Diane Feinstein being one of them.  the ultimate hypocrisy.

She's a senator, it makes sense for her and the people she represents (I voted for her but I think she's a total cunt) that she not be easily taken down by another Jared Loughner type.

And yes, the only way to prevent random crazy events like this is by doing something really crazy like hiring 200,000 armed guards at schools. But why would the NRA even suggest that as a serious solution? To deflect from any request for more gun control.

I'm sure even a total gun nut like you can see that these mass shootings represent very little of the overall murder rate and that to prevent your average violent criminal from killing anybody, something like a computerized federal registration system might not be so bad. It's a small inconvenience to make it easier to catch the motherfucker.

[Mr. Gundam]

An armed guard at every school in the nation? EVERY?

Who the hell is going to pay for that?

[Groogrux]

An armed guard at every school in the nation? EVERY?

Who the hell is going to pay for that?

You mean we don't pay taxes?  Take away one or two of those useless congressmen that we pay to make decisions for us that don't benefit us, and give their salaries to the guards.  Or cut some (or all) of the spending on government programs that don't benefit anyone in any way.

And just in case you're feeling a little cynical, let me help you with that.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=useless+government+programs+2012

And let me be clear, I don't think that putting guards in every school in the nation is a viable answer, but let's not pretend that the U.S. government couldn't fork out some cash for a reasonable solution.

[Don Flamenco]

I avoid threads like this on principle but I'll dip in to say only in modern America where its obvious what the problem is but nothing can be done about it because large portions of this country are stuck in the 18th century. Maybe in another 200 hundred years...

yeah, that's the whole reason.  The solution is so simple but nobody gets it but us smart people, am i right?   

[drew]

the guns should have little guns on them that shoot the user of the gun when he shoots the wrong people.

 

[Yeti]

Would it be just one guard per school? Or would it be a sliding scale of guards based on student population/fundraiser and bake sale budgets/number of mentally ill kids in the mentally ill database?

[drew]

[Van Cruncheon]

that doesn't even make sense.

[Joe Molotov]

Would it be just one guard per school? Or would it be a sliding scale of guards based on student population/fundraiser and bake sale budgets/number of mentally ill kids in the mentally ill database?

One guard per minority student.

[Cormacaroni]

fuck me, which are more useful - guns or motor vehicles I REALLY CAN'T TELL

[Don Flamenco]

fuck me, which are more useful - guns or motor vehicles I REALLY CAN'T TELL

why choose?  drive-by shooting!

[Mupepe]

I have yet to hear a reason why any normal private citizen needs a high-capacity weapon aside from wingnut fantasy scenarios. I suppose if we ban these guns, and then Obama reveals himself as the Antichrist/the zombie outbreak begins/Red Dawn happens/etc, we'll be looking pretty stupid, but I think we can safely play the odds on this one.

reloading is annoying.

[Mandark]

Man, if states tried to regulate guns like they do cars (dozens of classroom hours + 30-60 supervised practice hours before you can even take a test for a license, requiring you carry sufficient insurance to cover possible damages, etc.) the 2nd amendment folks would not be happy campers.

[drew]

i'd be ok with the mandatory training (free training yay!) but dunno about the insurance stuff, guns and people don;t really interact on a daily basis like cars do if you keep it holstered like you're suppossed to.

[Great Rumbler]

i'd be ok with the mandatory training (free training yay!) but dunno about the insurance stuff, guns and people don;t really interact on a daily basis like cars do if you keep it holstered like you're suppossed to.

100,000 people are shot [by themselves or someone else] every year in the US. I'd say that makes it a pretty common occurrence.

[Mandark]

First, who said shit about *free* training?  Maybe if your state's willing to take the hit, but I didn't get free driver's ed and I wouldn't expect the taxpayers to pay for this either.

Second, if guns are hardly used, then great, the premiums will be tiny.  But it might be that the insurance companies don't see a dude in his 20's with a gun as having the rosiest outlook, actuarially speaking.

[Great Rumbler]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/odonnell-tears-apart-nra-presser-lobbyist-for-mass-murderers-wayne-lapierre-is-a-desperate-cornered-rat/

[drew]

thinking back on that speech by him makes my head hurt, it just is not feasible.  i hope to God Obama doesn't get what he wants in regards to AWB2: electric boogaloo. ironically i was just about to buy an AK, but was waiting for the after Christmas/New Years deals. in short FML - I've got mags, ammo, but nothing to run them through.

[Boogie]

thinking back on that speech by him makes my head hurt, it just is not feasible.

durrrrrrrrr, no fucking shit.  Did you just notice my post on that point now?

second point:  oh right.  You care more about the price of guns than their effect on actual, y'know, people.  my bad.

[drew]

actually I didn't notice your post at all, and sure just because I express something on Evilbore means that thought is fresh as a neatly curled steaming pooh

of course i care more about the price of guns, because i believe a ban would have zero effect on the well being of people.  why would I care about something I don't believe in

[DCharlieJP]

this is a stupid question, but i'm going to (edit) ASK it anyways

As gun owners, if you get into, say, a verbal argument that then escalates where someone who could clearly kick the fuck out of you is going to -actually- kick the fuck out of you - do you immediately reach for your piece and start blasting/threatening/etc? (hypothetical)

It's just that i'm sure 99.9999999% of the borian brits/euros/arabians etc have probably gotten into multiple fist fights that ended with, well, fist fights. I just wonder what the cut off point is if you are actually carrying a piece and does this not expand the usual phenomenon of "no backdown"? In the UK that means you have no way out but to fist fight - but for you guys? Answer depending it seems the consequences are guaranteed to be much more severe.

[Cormacaroni]

silly dcharlie, drew goes for the knife first

[drew]

what you are asking about is called murder, charlie.

taking a gun out without using it is called brandishing.

edit: let me make this clear, as a CCWer the only time your gun should see the light of day is if your life is in immediate danger and you actually intend to use it. everything else is illegal, unless the situation suddenly deescalates (the robber drops his gun and runs away, just happened in an Autozone a couple weeks ago).  in case you were wondering warning shots are also illegal.

[drew]

I don't feel like I should have to justify my want (not need) to have one. but since you asked nicely (thank you for that, honestly) I'll say that because guns are one of my favorite hobbies. it's like asking a guy who watches Top Gear religiously why he wants to buy a Porsche 911 avec le turbocharger.  I enjoy the history, weird Russian quirks, and the home project factor of the particular platform.  there are so many things you can do to an AK. I'd like to order stuff online, track it, get excited for when it comes to my door, then get my hands greasy and work on it in my garage at night with the radio on when I come home from my shitty job.

[Cerveza mas fina]

this is a stupid question, but i'm going to (edit) ASK it anyways

As gun owners, if you get into, say, a verbal argument that then escalates where someone who could clearly kick the fuck out of you is going to -actually- kick the fuck out of you - do you immediately reach for your piece and start blasting/threatening/etc? (hypothetical)

It's just that i'm sure 99.9999999% of the borian brits/euros/arabians etc have probably gotten into multiple fist fights that ended with, well, fist fights. I just wonder what the cut off point is if you are actually carrying a piece and does this not expand the usual phenomenon of "no backdown"? In the UK that means you have no way out but to fist fight - but for you guys? Answer depending it seems the consequences are guaranteed to be much more severe.

This is exactly what I always think about.

Also thinking about just small everyday arguements you might get with a chav on a bus or something, what if that bloke had a gun? Id be paranoid 24/7.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Question for gun owners: how do you feel when you are abroad? Insecure?

[DCharlieJP]

what you are asking about is called murder, charlie.

taking a gun out without using it is called brandishing.

edit: let me make this clear, as a CCWer the only time your gun should see the light of day is if your life is in immediate danger and you actually intend to use it. everything else is illegal, unless the situation suddenly deescalates (the robber drops his gun and runs away, just happened in an Autozone a couple weeks ago).  in case you were wondering warning shots are also illegal.

right - so if someone bigger, more trained, stronger gets into a fist fight with you you just go hand to hand and take a kicking? Or,as per cormac's quip, does the knife come out?

it's like asking a guy who watches Top Gear religiously why he wants to buy a Porsche 911 avec le turbocharger.

excep of course that not a single Top Gear watcher would want a 911 - shit car in that world total. Just saying

[Cormacaroni]

I am basing the knife thing on drew's past posts, which may have been bullshit or for laughs or whatever, but my impression was that this was a serious scenario in his mind that he thought about and prepared for quite a lot

[drew]

right - so if someone bigger, more trained, stronger gets into a fist fight with you you just go hand to hand and take a kicking? Or,as per cormac's quip, does the knife come out?

fuuuuuck no.  I don't really know what I would do but I definitely wouldn't kill him. the knife I wear every day is going to only ever be used for utility (and it gets used, a lot, it looks like something that would belong to Boba Fett).  pulling out a knife when the other dude has his fists out is called escalation of force and is illegal. if somebody pulled a knife on me I would run, if I couldn't get away you bet I would shoot him deader than a hammer.

[Cormacaroni]

https://twitter.com/davidfrum

[brawndolicious]

Man, if states tried to regulate guns like they do cars (dozens of classroom hours + 30-60 supervised practice hours before you can even take a test for a license, requiring you carry sufficient insurance to cover possible damages, etc.) the 2nd amendment folks would not be happy campers.

In reality though, I think a car is a better way to fight against tyranny than the second amendment. You can just move to canada.

GLOBALISM

[Don Flamenco]

we just have to id tag the guns, id tag the people, and get a complex AI to monitor their actions so the guns can be deactivated at any time.  It's a loop hole in the constitution, if you think about it. 

[Mupepe]

I don't feel like I should have to justify my want (not need) to have one. but since you asked nicely (thank you for that, honestly) I'll say that because guns are one of my favorite hobbies. it's like asking a guy who watches Top Gear religiously why he wants to buy a Porsche 911 avec le turbocharger.  I enjoy the history, weird Russian quirks, and the home project factor of the particular platform.  there are so many things you can do to an AK. I'd like to order stuff online, track it, get excited for when it comes to my door, then get my hands greasy and work on it in my garage at night with the radio on when I come home from my shitty job.

okay, so it's basically a toy, right?

edit: to clarify, if it's a toy, i won't ask you to justify it.  i think it's a very dangerous toy, but some people might say that about my toys, so that's neither here nor there, as long as you're responsible about it.

I know you were asking, drew.  But yes, to me it is a toy.  I have no issues with effective legislation.  But why throw out everything when a more reasonable solution hasn't been tried yet?    For example...

Man, if states tried to regulate guns like they do cars (dozens of classroom hours + 30-60 supervised practice hours before you can even take a test for a license, requiring you carry sufficient insurance to cover possible damages, etc.) the 2nd amendment folks would not be happy campers.

I would be very okay with this.  Even throw in a tax on guns to pay for overseeing the regulation.  At over 10 million guns sold a year it wouldn't have to be that huge of a tax. 

As a gun owner, gun owners scare the shit out of me.  Anything that would force them to be educated is a plus in my book.

[Human Snorenado]

A group of people that think they need to play Red Dawn BECAUSE TYRRANY is going to be educated on gun safety by GUBMINT AGENTS?  I foresee that going well.

[Cerveza mas fina]

https://twitter.com/davidfrum

10/10

[Mupepe]

A group of people that think they need to play Red Dawn BECAUSE TYRRANY is going to be educated on gun safety by GUBMINT AGENTS?  I foresee that going well.

That crazy part of the gun owning population is going to throw a hissy fit no matter what legislation is passed.  They wouldn't be pleased by anything.  So who gives a shit about what they think?

[Cormacaroni]

yeah well - almost by definition they are opposed to government of any kind so no pleasing 'em