US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[Freyj]

[Oblivion]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/10/confederate-flag-wont-help-conservatives-win-shutdown/70479/

Who's the genius who thought this would be a good idea?

 

[chronovore]

So, wait: I can be arrested for "disturbing the peace," but Boehner and his cronies can't be arrested for shutting down the government?

[DCharlieJP]

you can be impeached for being in possession of office whilst not a redneck... what did you expect?

[Phoenix Dark]

The outline of the emerging Senate deal is this: The government is funded until Jan. 15. The debt ceiling is lifted until Feb. 7. There are a handful of small Affordable Care Act changes: Stronger income verification, which Republicans want, and a one-year delay on the reinsurance tax, which Democrats want.

Oh, and there's a bicameral budget committee that needs to report back by Dec. 13.

The timing of all this is designed to create a fight about sequestration. The Jan. 15 deadline means funding for the federal government runs out at the exact moment sequestration's deeper cuts kick in. The Dec. 13 deadline means that the full House and Senate would have time to consider any package of recommendations the bicameral committee comes up with, if the committee actually manages to come up with anything.

The deal isn't official yet. It hasn't passed the Senate yet. And it certainly hasn't passed the House yet. But if it does clear those hurdles -- and, again, that's a big if -- it'll mean Republicans and Democrats have agreed to take what began as a fight over the Affordable Care Act and make it into a fight over sequestration.

That's what the Democrats want. It's also what some Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan and Grover Norquist want. But it's not been what the Ted Cruz wing of the Republican Party wants. The question now is how much pull they really have. This, from Robert Costa, suggests the answer might be "less than they did a few weeks ago":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/the-senates-deal-to-end-the-shutdown-is-a-deal-to-fight-over-sequestration/?print=1

Unions pull a last minute hat trick win, thanks Cruz!

Obamacare already has income verification laws, I'm assuming this new agreement is pure window dressing. In short, House republicans got sent to bed with no dinner.

[Joe Molotov]

Bubububut, the Sarah Palin rally!?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Holy shit, the GOP is now further to the right than Grover Norquist?

[Human Snorenado]

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/republicans-using-wwii-vets-for-political-agenda-101413

How dare these idiots? Tailgunner Ted Cruz, and Mike Lee, the constitooshunal skolar from Utah, and Ms. Palin. How dare they traffick in this manner of grave-robbing? They would all throw these veterans off Medicare, close the VA hospitals, bury the brave old men and women in substandard nursing homes rather than give an inch away of their indomitable ideology of entitled selfishness. Ted Cruz doesn't think the government has a role in making the lives of these veterans easier. Mike Lee thinks the Founders wanted vets to starve. Sarah Palin doesn't think, period, and is proud of it.

 

[Himu]

So this isn't going to be resolved is it?

[Human Snorenado]

Basically, if Boehner thinks that passing the Senate deal will let him keep the Speakership, it might.

...if the rules of the Senate didn't permit Senators to engage in horseshit trickery to hold up bills from being brought up for immediate consideration, anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-14/ted-cruz-could-force-a-debt-default-all-by-himself

 

[Himu]

After this is it possible for Cruz to be arrested/fired?

[headwalk]

could be a fun weekend.

[Phoenix Dark]

There's no way Cruz single handily crashes the global economy. He wants to be president, after all.

[Human Snorenado]

There's no way Cruz single handily crashes the global economy. He wants to be president, after all.

...and whose dick does he have to suck to win the GOP primary, your average teatard or the Chamber of Commerce?  No, we're fucked.  There's no guarantee Boehner will put this up for a vote, either.

[Phoenix Dark]

The House is out of time/bullshit, they have to pass this or we default. Boehner will bite the bullet, then tell his caucus he fought until the last minute. Not worried at all, just as I wasn't worried two weeks ago. Boehner always knew this day would come. He held out to protest his Speakership, and in hopes that maybe Obama would unilaterally cave.

This is a huge win for those Republicans who got into the shutdown to help unions. For those who had other goals, it's basically a total surrender.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/senators-near-deal-on-gop-surrender.html

[Joe Molotov]

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/republicans-using-wwii-vets-for-political-agenda-101413

How dare these idiots? Tailgunner Ted Cruz, and Mike Lee, the constitooshunal skolar from Utah, and Ms. Palin. How dare they traffick in this manner of grave-robbing? They would all throw these veterans off Medicare, close the VA hospitals, bury the brave old men and women in substandard nursing homes rather than give an inch away of their indomitable ideology of entitled selfishness. Ted Cruz doesn't think the government has a role in making the lives of these veterans easier. Mike Lee thinks the Founders wanted vets to starve. Sarah Palin doesn't think, period, and is proud of it.

 

 

[Human Snorenado]

The House is out of time/bullshit, they have to pass this or we default. Boehner will bite the bullet, then tell his caucus he fought until the last minute. Not worried at all, just as I wasn't worried two weeks ago. Boehner always knew this day would come. He held out to protest his Speakership, and in hopes that maybe Obama would unilaterally cave.

This is a huge win for those Republicans who got into the shutdown to help unions. For those who had other goals, it's basically a total surrender.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/senators-near-deal-on-gop-surrender.html

We'll see. 

[Joe Molotov]

As always, The Onion cuts through to the heart of the bullshit:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/tea-party-congressman-listens-to-constituent-who-w,34218/

Saying the things no one else will say.

[Oblivion]

There's no way Cruz single handily crashes the global economy. He wants to be president, after all.

 

No way in hell that's happening after this.

[Oblivion]

This is a very frustrated Lindsey Graham, which is a very dangerous thing.

[Great Rumbler]

No one has ever worried about frustrating Lindsey Graham.

[Human Snorenado]

This is a very frustrated Lindsey Graham, which is a very dangerous thing.

[Yulwei]

Suicide caucus where art thou

[Great Rumbler]

Suicide caucus where art thou

About to be taken behind the woodshed and horsewhipped.

[Great Rumbler]

[Oblivion]

Was just about to post that.

[headwalk]

so what's the GOP endgame here, force obama to unleash his full tyranny and use an executive measure to avoid a global financial spaz out??

[Human Snorenado]

The House is out of time/bullshit, they have to pass this or we default. Boehner will bite the bullet, then tell his caucus he fought until the last minute. Not worried at all, just as I wasn't worried two weeks ago. Boehner always knew this day would come. He held out to protest his Speakership, and in hopes that maybe Obama would unilaterally cave.

This is a huge win for those Republicans who got into the shutdown to help unions. For those who had other goals, it's basically a total surrender.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/senators-near-deal-on-gop-surrender.html

We'll see.

Well, well, well.  Never forget that you have the political instincts of... well I'm not really certain, but you're really wrong really often.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-republicans-poised-to-spurn-senate-debt-deal

[AdmiralViscen]

Boehner isn't even whipping that vote, it's being sent to die so he can tell tea partiers he was left with no choice but the Senate deal.

[Phoenix Dark]

Exactly. This is just like the fiscal cliff, where Boehner's failed "plan B" led to him passing the senate bill. And even if this passes I still don't see corporate lapdog Boehner blowing up the world economy.

Can't link now but Ted Cruz met with 20 tea party congressmen this morning. Boehner's plan is already getting mixed views in the house GOP.

[Human Snorenado]

Costa says they sang "Amazing Grace" this morning and are unified behind rejecting the Senate plan and going forward with this one.

Like I said, we'll see.  I don't think Boehner has it in him to throw the ring into the volcano.

[Joe Molotov]

Costa says they sang "Amazing Grace" this morning and are unified behind rejecting the Senate plan and going forward with this one.

Jesus, take the wheel. 

[Brehvolution]

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/10/12/fox-regular-jonathan-hoenig-buying-american-is/196424

BOLLING: So let's talk about this Jonathan. You're a free marketeer guy. Now Walmart says, we're going to focus on buying made in the USA, so companies make stuff overseas, they would rather buy from them if they open a plant in America. Are you okay with that?

HOENIG: I'm actually against that Eric. I think this whole notion of buy American is actually un-American. American companies should buy the lowest quality product... excuse me, the lowest price product at the highest possible quality. If they happen to be made overseas, that's even better. It allows Americans to save money and those resources to be more deployed, and more profitable in productive ways.

Communist sympathizers

[Phoenix Dark]

House Conservatives are now trying to add contraceptive language to bill; they're also upset at funding levels apparently. They don't like Boehner's bill...

[Mupepe]

Final hail mary so they can say they tried to negotiate for all these things.  Bullet points really, nothing more....


.... I hope

[headwalk]

come close child, everything's getting dark.

[Human Snorenado]

House Conservatives are now trying to add contraceptive language to bill; they're also upset at funding levels apparently. They don't like Boehner's bill...

Yeah, these sound like the actions of people seriously ready to let Boehner bring the Senate bill to the floor.

[Human Snorenado]

Having spent two hours talking to House Republicans, my expert investment advice is: Short everything

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Yeah, last week I told myself "there's no way they'd let us default" but now I realize they don't believe default will happen, so they can do whatever they want. Wheeeeee get ready for Th3 Gr3at D3pression

[Human Snorenado]

Yeah, last week I told myself "there's no way they'd let us default" but now I realize they don't believe default will happen, so they can do whatever they want. Wheeeeee get ready for Th3 Gr3at D3pression

Yeah, turns out electing functional distinguished mentally-challenged fellows to govern you is a bad idea, no matter how many electrolytes they've got, Scro.

[Great Rumbler]

Get ready for DEFAULTGHAZI!

[Boogie]

I am prepared to re-open bidding for space on my futon and/or couch.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

not that Americuh isn't going to drag Canuckistan down the drain with it in its death throes :-/

[close]

[headwalk]

phoenix dark is my barometer. despite all the fun, i've held on to the notion that this is a man made problem which will find itself a man made solution. once PD starts to finger his collar, i'm off to the bank with a wheelbarrow.

[Great Rumbler]

i'm off to the bank with a wheelbarrow.

In 48 hours, about the only thing that paper will be good for is wiping your bum.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's worth noting that if the House bill passes, Reid can simply remove the offending parts, pass it in the senate, and send it back. The budget numbers are the same in both bills. Reid could even backstab the senate GOP if he wanted, by not adding any concessions they've discussed.

Pass the bill, send it back to the house, and skip town.

[CatsCatsCats]

How soon after the default can I stop paying my mortgage and other bills? When do the riots start? I'm thinking dispensaries and liquor stores.

[ToxicAdam]

I can't believe you people take this charade so seriously. It's all pro wrestling.

[Steve Contra]

Yeah, no way we're defaulting.  Also, no way the 17th is the actual default date.  The Treasury would play their hand like that.

[Brehvolution]

But pro wrestling is fake. Are you insinuating that it's just a show to fund raise and sell commercials for 24 hour "news" orgs?

[Phoenix Dark]

Yeah, no way we're defaulting.  Also, no way the 17th is the actual default date.  The Treasury would play their hand like that.

It would begin the process, ie the markets would collapse. The first interest payments due are later this month, which would technically be the crash date. Social security payments on October 26th I think.

[ToxicAdam]

But pro wrestling is fake. Are you insinuating that it's just a show to fund raise and sell commercials for 24 hour "news" orgs?

Nah, more like a show for their constituents. They haven't really done shit, so they have to do this to justify their paycheck(s).  A way to grab headlines for a few weeks and get their talking points on front pages. A final full-throated scream that they are against Obamacare to sear into American memories.

We will see a similar charade at the end of the year before recess. There will be some new ginned up 'crisis' and they will get to dominate the headlines for a few weeks, then they will kiss and makeup and return home.

[Human Snorenado]

It's worth noting that if the House bill passes, Reid can simply remove the offending parts, pass it in the senate, and send it back. The budget numbers are the same in both bills. Reid could even backstab the senate GOP if he wanted, by not adding any concessions they've discussed.

Pass the bill, send it back to the house, and skip town.

Someone is already ahead of you, and it ain't Harry Reid

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-house-gop-considers-passing-bill-then-leaving-town

[Phoenix Dark]

A few House members leaving doesn't equal Boehner closing the House. Not buying that. If I had to bet, this is leadership trying to get the bill passed without contraception and other shit being tacked on.

[Brehvolution]

We will see a similar charade at the end of the year before recess. There will be some new ginned up 'crisis' and they will get to dominate the headlines for a few weeks, then they will kiss and makeup and return home.

#Charadeghazi fits on so many levels 

[Mandark]

I can't believe you people take this charade so seriously. It's all pro wrestling.

You say that, but the sequester actually hit and the government has shut down.  So these crises aren't all based on some secret agreement from all sides to create the illusion of conflict.

I still don't think we're going to default, but "it's all a show" is a bit Alex Jones-y for my tastes.

[Phoenix Dark]

Dow is starting to tumble..

I buy the idea that Boehner is putting on a show, to help save his job. But the people who want to default are very serious, and aren't playing a game.

[ToxicAdam]

You say that, but the sequester actually hit and the government has shut down.  So these crises aren't all based on some secret agreement from all sides to create the illusion of conflict.

I still don't think we're going to default, but "it's all a show" is a bit Alex Jones-y for my tastes.

Here's a list of the actual impacts of the sequester:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/sequestration-federal-agency-impact/

So minimal, it's laughable.


When I say 'it's a show', it's not to imply that it's an orchestrated charade. It's a collection of people in the house that realize they have nothing really to show for the past 2-3 years of service and will need something to justify their existence, even though they know the outcome is going to be failure. That's 'the show' and we all have to play along like it's real.

[Human Snorenado]

If push comes to shove and the options were defaulting and keeping his Speakership or passing the Senate bill and losing his Speakership, which do you think Boehner is going to go for?  I don't know if I want him in the position to make that decision, honestly.

[Phoenix Dark]

@robertcostaNRO 1m

BREAKING: medical device delay is now out of House's bill, per two sources close to talks

@robertcostaNRO 5m

One reason why med device fell from package: populist right doesn't like it, complained they couldn't sell it as O'care win to base

lol. So they're focusing on Vitter amendment (no subsidies for government aides) trying to get to 218.

[ToxicAdam]

If push comes to shove and the options were defaulting and keeping his Speakership or passing the Senate bill and losing his Speakership, which do you think Boehner is going to go for?  I don't know if I want him in the position to make that decision, honestly.

In the end, Boehner is still on Team Plutocracy. He will do what is best for the economy.

His Speakership is just another bulletpoint on his resume for his next REAL job as a lobbyist.