Game

[archnemesis]

They still won't output the same graphics though. You need a proper gaming PC for that.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Damn Maxy y u so bitter about PS4?

[maxy]

No,I'm just surprised about people stupidity.

RAM is really becoming new Cell.

[archnemesis]

Did you see that Carmack quote that was posted in the same thread? "Consoles run 2x or so better than equal PC hardware, but it isn’t just API in the way, focus a single spec also matters." That's what it all boils down to.

The extra memory is a big deal since the PS3 was suffering from memory issues since its launch. With 16 times more and 8 times faster memory, the PS4 will be fine for the first half of its life span.

[cool breeze]

most current mid-range PC builds will likely be fine running games on par if not better than next gen consoles.  if anything, those expecting to run every game at 60fps on the highest setting will want a boost in 2014 or whenever true next gen games come out.

[pickle]

No, the driver support for the DualShock3 isn't good at all. It will be the same with the DS4 unless Sony decides to provide the drivers themselves.

From what I recall, the community developed drivers are pretty acceptable no?

[archnemesis]

I used it for years, but now that I own a Microsoft 360 gamepad for PC I'm not going back to the Motioninjoy drivers. Even though I prefer the DS3, I'd rather not have to reconfigure it every time I want to play a new game.

There are two different drivers. Motioninjoy offers more customization, but comes with ads. There is a Hardcore Gaming 101 rant claiming that the other driver is vastly superior, but they're wrong.

[cool breeze]

I was just thinking...

(Image removed from quote.)

Assuming that it will be a standard bluetooth device, the DS4 could serve as a pretty good PC controller with that touch pad.

yeah, I'm hoping someone gets on it.  Recently someone got the wii u pro controller working on PC.

I always wondered why Sony never made official drivers for the dualshock 3.  Probably impossible to track but Microsoft must've sold a bunch of controllers and adapters for PC.

[Powerslave]

I don't understand how they could handle the L3/R3 buttons but most of all I don't see how they are gonna translate the button sensitiveness to the PSV. I'm also wondering how they managed this with the MGS HD Collection. These games are known for using button sensitivity extensively, yet I never saw anyone commenting about this on forums. Anyone who can shed a light on this please do.

[Cormacaroni]

virtual controls on the read touch pad?

[Powerslave]

well of course, that's an easy solution but im more worried about how awkward or hard to pull off certain inputs will be. And like I said I'm more wondering about how they will handle button sensitivity.

[cool breeze]

I think MGS Collection uses the d-pad for some actions and the front touch for item selection.  Has Sony said anything about pressure sensitive buttons/d-pad on the dual shock 4? Wouldn't be surprised if it's ditched.  Original Xbox has analog buttons that were dropped from the 360 pad.

It'll end up being like remote play or PS1 are.  Customizable but backtouch replaces the 2 and 3 buttons.  You could also assign the four corners of the front touch screen to different commands.

[archnemesis]

Pressure sensitive face buttons is actually pretty awesome, but I can't think of that many games that use them in a meaningful way. It's done right as CQC in the Metal Gear series and in Wipeout.

[maxy]

Suda51 is horny

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-11-suda51-excited-by-playstation-4-possibilities

Suda51 is best known for his innovative and often surreal games like Killer 7, No More Heroes and Shadows Of The Damned.

"As has been announced, Grasshopper Manufacture will make games for PS4, as will (parent company) GungHo Online Entertainment and (sister company) Acquire. I can't go into detail at this stage, but for sure the new challenge is exciting," he added.

"During PlayStation Meeting 2013, Sony showed such a strong vision. Now we have to decide how to find our own victories within that and present games that express the Grasshopper world. And that makes me horny again."

 

[Eel O'Brian]

If they're really gearing up the Vita to be a PS4/Gakai streamer, it'd be nice if they released a grip cradle you could drop the Vita into that had L2 and R2 shoulder buttons/triggers, and a set of face buttons to compensate for no L3/R3, sort of like that second stick thing for the 3DS.

[archnemesis]

I like the default shape of the Vita, but if a cradle would give me extra buttons and clickable sticks I would buy it instantly.

[cool breeze]

Can't wait to see Acquire's next gen game.  Way of the Samurai 5 might look as good as Genji 2 

[chronovore]

I understand what you mean about the touchpad, but is the DualShock3 easy to use with PCs, since it is also a normal BlueTooth device?

it does work though, and with Macs too. You just need to pair it up using a cable /Settings panel on your Mac

Ooh, thanks. Will give it a try!

[Cormacaroni]

if you have trouble there are plenty of tutorial vids on youtube. Can't remember which one i watched tho

[maxy]

Remember that Avalanche Studios studio PS4 GDDR5 dude,well

His tweet

On GPUs GDDR5 latency is slow, but throughput is really fast. On PS4 we don't know if they've addressed latency. - Linus Blomberg

[pilonv1]

Lazy dev

[maxy]

I guess that means they still have PC based PS4 devkits.

Speaking of dev tweets



Not surprising,dev kits can be pretty expensive.


Famitsu dev interview

Full c/p from Kotaku

Last week, Japanese gaming magazine Weekly Famitsu asked their readers what they thought about the PS4. In this week's issue, the question was lobbed in the direction of many of Japan's biggest game makers, to get the developer point of view on Sony's as-of-yet faceless console. Take a look at what some of them had to say:

The following 3 questions were posed to developers:

1. What are your impressions of the PlayStation 4?
2. Of the PlayStation 4's specs and functions, what stands out to you?
3. What sort of game would you like to develop utilizing the PlayStation 4's specs and functions?

• Acquire CEO, Takuma Endou

1. — "My impression of the hardware was, simply put, "chock-full." It has power, memory, a camera – it's the ultimate form of a game machine that can do anything. If I were to say anything negative, it would be that it was very hard to tell what made it unique."

2. — "How few limitations there were. As a developer, the fewer limitations a console, the easier it is to develop for, so that helps a lot. On the other hand, without limitations, it may be harder to create a 'selling point.'"

3. — "Since I don't think we can win in a battle of high quality graphics, I'd like a game that creatively uses the network functions and isn't too heavy or long. My desire to make a game that can sell on its ideas and entertainment was reinvigorated."

• Platinum Games Producer, Atsushi Inaba

1. — "I got the impression that the competitive field for consoles is moving from basic performance specs to peripheral services."

2. — "I'm not that interested in hardware specs like graphic processing. Of course, I thought [the PS4's specs] were quite impressive, but you can't win in a competition against PC gaming specs that are constantly evolving. I felt a great deal of potential in the peripheral stage that has been set to make use of new content. I'm also very interested in seeing what sort of reference content SCE will be bringing out so that the vision they have for the hardware is not diluted."

3. — "If we can fully exploit the peripheral services, we may be able to deliver a different 'virtual world' from the previous consoles. I'd like to try that approach."

• Capcom Producer, Hiroyuki Kobayashi

1. — "I was actually at the PlayStation Meeting 2013 where they announced it. When the PS4 logo appeared, I had the standard 'Yes! At last it's officially been announced!' sort of response, as well as wondering what sort of games would come out. As a user, I was very excited."

2. — "The high quality graphics and the processing power are obviously very promising, but I was also interested in how the PS4 would integrate social aspects and link with mobile platforms. The announced titles seem to take good advantage of the PS4's functions and specs and show a lot of different potential directions to take. I think we'll see a wider variety of titles than we did with the PS3."

3. — "The PS4's social connectivity functions will allow for many users to share their gameplay. The question is how to integrate this showing and viewing of gameplay within the game. How will users play with this function? Like a video arcade? Like YouTube? There are a lot of potential ideas. I think this will change the game experience a great deal. It's going to make figuring out what sort of services creators should offer users more challenging. I'd like to create something that will offer a new gaming experience."

• Level 5 Game Director, Jiro Ishii

1. — "I was surprised that the PlayStation, which has always maintained a sharp image, was taking a cost-performance-focused strategy. This made me both happy and sad."

2. — "I have high expectations for their strong appeal as 'hardware that's easy to develop for.' I'd like to know how the Share button is going to change game promotion and gameplay. I'm very interested."

3. — "Could the Share button change the way adventure games are played? It's easy to imagine its use for games with strong contingent game design like action games and stealth games, but with adventure games, that focus on showing a story, it feels like it would lead to story spoilers or making players feel like they've played the game just by watching. Still, there must be stories that can be expanded because they can be shared. Like a group piece where different protagonists are connected with the Share button and change the fate of the world… I'd like to try to make such a game scenario."

• Tecmo Koei Games Producer, Hisashi Koinuma

1. — "My initial impressions of the PS4 were that it is a 'true network game machine.'

2. — "The focus on sharing experiences. I was also intrigued by the ability to use the PS Vita, smart phones, or tablets as a second screen."

3. — "Normally, in order to talk about games with friends or family, you need them nearby. I believe users will be able to have meaningful communication with other users through the network, even from their own homes. I'd like to make a game that would make user participation in multi-player more fun, even if it's not in realtime."

• Sony Computer Entertainment Japan Director, Keiichirou Toyama

1. — "I felt the same thing with the PS Vita, but it's a piece of hardware that goes well with the adjective, 'Spartan.' The fat has been trimmed off as much as possible, and what's truly important has been compressed with no excess or deficiency."

2. — "Many users feel that FPS or RTS games should be played with a mouse. I felt the high universality of the DualShock 4 will be able to improve such standards of game control. I'm also interested in the increased network compatibility, especially the application of cloud technology and the coordination with mobile platforms, as well as the evolution of game and visual experiences of course."

3. — "It's a staple, but I'd like to make an adventure epic in a vast imaginary world. User communication is becoming a standard feature, but I'd like to have people having fun sharing their experiences of what they felt or saw rather than just items or parameters. That, or something you can clear in a few hours, like a first person supernatural nightmare experience."

• Konami Digital Entertainment Kojima Production Creative Producer, Yuji Korekado

1. — "The architecture was simpler than I thought it'd be. It seemed like the hardware specs are evolving as expected, with expansion beyond the hardware itself in mind."

2. — "The PlayStation App and the Share button. With the increased processing power, more realtime processing is possible and character AI can be more complex. Games will be about individual players enjoying different experiences each time they play. The ability to easily share each experience through video or gameplay anywhere was incredibly innovative."

3. — "Looking at the specs alone, where we used to show particle movements and flow for things like smoke, dust, and water currents by arranging patterns, we'll be able to have them processed in realtime. This will obviously help with visual effects, but can also be used to create new gameplay elements, like how we used the free slicing in Metal Gear Rising as a core gameplay element. I'd also like to focus on services that would emerge from the ability to connect from different platforms, anytime and anywhere."

Western developers,long article
http://www.develop-online.net/features/1826/PS4-26-developers-speak

Favorite quote

Gearbox Software FX artist Nick Peterson
"As for the social aspect, I don't really care about it personally. I'm sure some will, but I also wonder if it is really as big as people claim it is or will be on consoles.
"It seems to me most peoples' social sphere sticks to Facebook and not much else at all. PlayStation Home was a flop, the social tools for the Vita don't seem to be used often, and honestly, I get tired of seeing and hearing 14 year old kids mouthing off at everyone when I play online."

 

[maxy]

http://www.vgleaks.com/playstation-4-architecture-evolution-over-time/

Many people thought that PS4 constantly changed its architecture, but this is not true at all. In this article we will see 2 “pictures” of Playstation 4 and how it has evolved over the time. We are going to see that not all the components and speeds in the system are better than before.

The first picture shows the system at mid 2011 (almost 2 years from now):


The second picture (early 2013) shows the evolution in PS4:

There are 2 main differences:

-  The 4 cores have been “upgraded” to 8 cores (this time as we know they are Jaguar cores instead Steamroller)

- RAM amount is still the same (4 GB, this change is very recent)

- Almost all the speeds are “downgraded”.

So now we have:

- “Garlic” bus between GPU and Memory (176 GB/s)

- “Onion” buses between GPU and Memory through CPU (10 GB/s shared)

- CPU bus between CPU and Memory (less than 20 GB/s). The only one apparently untouched.

 As you can see, not all the changes in PS4 are made to improve the system performance. Major changes are the type of CPU and mostly the RAM amount in the system.

well well

 

[BlueTsunami]

As excited as I am about the PS4 I couldn't give a shit about the whole 'sharing' experience. Its like, who gives a fuck? for me

[Cormacaroni]

 

[maxy]

Mark Cerny PS4 interview
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html

Some crappy translation at gaf
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=51579141&postcount=1

Interesting tidbit

A correction was made to the article saying that the drive can read CD's--the system just won't support playback of music CD's.

[mjemirzian]

Unless MS comes out with some kind of miracle system, hardcore gamers are going to flock to PS4. Hopefully that is enough to keep Sony afloat.

[maxy]

As excited as I am about the PS4 I couldn't give a shit about the whole 'sharing' experience. Its like, who gives a fuck? for me

How ungrateful.
Don't you know that Sony devoted entire button to sharing?And what about Mark Cerny?He worked his butt off to seamlessly integrate that button and you just say MEH!?

The fact that he spent so much of his personal time working on the question of just what hardware should go into the box made Cerny realize something important: "I probably have more passion about the next generation than anybody inside the Sony Computer Entertainment world."

With that in mind, he pitched his bosses on letting him lead the PlayStation 4 development efforts. To his surprise, he earned himself the role of lead system architect.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/189368/Inside_the_PlayStation_4_with_Mark_Cerny.php

[Huff]

Unless MS comes out with some kind of miracle system, hardcore gamers are going to flock to PS4. Hopefully that is enough to keep Sony afloat.

Nintendo continues to sell zero units. Sony manages to create a hardcore gaming system, selling about as much as the gamecube. MS takes over the living room but discontinues game production

at least i still have ridiculous fishing

[Himu]

As excited as I am about the PS4 I couldn't give a shit about the whole 'sharing' experience. Its like, who gives a fuck? for me

I think this is stupid talk.

I've wanted to share me playing a game on console for a long time, but before you had to have a video recorder. I love sharing my game screeshots and stuff too. And you can't even do that on modern consoles.

I'm pretty sure you posted shit ton of pics of your Skyrim character in the Skyrim thread, but you don't care about social features that allow console players to finally do that crap?

I think it's cool.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

if microsoft did it hed be saying its innovative A+ feature no joke

[Himu]

Yeah, the sharing features are some of the most innovative stuff on the console so far. The fact you can stream a video and send it to youtube is A+++ for me. The fact you don't need a video card or those expensive gadgets is godsend. How in the world can anyone hate on that? That's cool as shit.

[maxy]

I wonder if publishers will complain,they tend to remove stuff from youtube sometimes.

[Sho Nuff]

I bet Japanese companies will turn that shit off for almost every game.

"What if someone records gameplay footage with a licensed song in it and then uploads it, WE would be held responsible and there could be big trouble desu"

[cool breeze]

new info and images about the controller: http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/27/4153436/sony-shows-off-the-new-playstation-dualshock-4-controller

-Controller colors are the Player Numbers: 1-Blue, 2-Red, 3-Green, 4-Pink (Like the buttons)
-1920x900 resolution on the analog touchpad.
-buttons are going back to digital over analog because no one used it on PS3.
-Start/Select buttons are now “Options.” New System button is “Share.”
-Speaker, headset jack and “extension port” on the PS4 controller.

other info about camera and such

-Dedicated port for the PS4 camera, exclusive SCE Connector. Means it won't use a USB port on the console, but won't plug into your PC

means Sony can sell you an extension cord

Adam Simmons ‏@princeofcode
At PS4 dev talk. Platform is 64-bit x86. Dev environment is Win7 64-bit VS2010, LLVM/Clang with C++11 support. Wow, yes please.

/maxy

[BlueTsunami]

As excited as I am about the PS4 I couldn't give a shit about the whole 'sharing' experience. Its like, who gives a fuck? for me

I think this is stupid talk.

I've wanted to share me playing a game on console for a long time, but before you had to have a video recorder. I love sharing my game screeshots and stuff too. And you can't even do that on modern consoles.

I'm pretty sure you posted shit ton of pics of your Skyrim character in the Skyrim thread, but you don't care about social features that allow console players to finally do that crap?

I think it's cool.

the fug, I've never posted pics from my games in playing cause fuck dat sheeit

[Mr. Gundam]

Yeah, the sharing features are some of the most innovative stuff on the console so far. The fact you can stream a video and send it to youtube is A+++ for me. The fact you don't need a video card or those expensive gadgets is godsend. How in the world can anyone hate on that? That's cool as shit.

I don't hate it. I just don't care nor do I think it's exciting.

[cool breeze]

-Remote play for #PS4 games is BOTH via local network and/or Internet.

-No more needing of launching a remote play more on #PS4, like you had to do on PS3. Software can help map buttons that don't exist in Vita.

this will be more impressive if you've ever tried remote play on PSP or vita before.

[TakingBackSunday]

-1920x900 resolution on the analog touchpad.

wait what

I'm confused.  is it just a touchpad or is it a screen?  this controller confuses the shit out of me

[maxy]

Something for hardcore sfeggits

Dedicated port for the #PS4 camera, exclusive SCE Connector. Means it won't use a USB port on the console, but won't plug into your PC.

have fun

[Diunx]

Adam Simmons ‏@princeofcode
At PS4 dev talk. Platform is 64-bit x86. Dev environment is Win7 64-bit VS2010, LLVM/Clang with C++11 support. Wow, yes please.

/maxy

Windows 8 

[Rufus]

-1920x900 resolution on the analog touchpad.

I'm confused.  is it just a touchpad or is it a screen?  this controller confuses the shit out of me

It is just a touchpad. The resolution (in relation to its size) just tells you how sensitive it is.

[cool breeze]

-1920x900 resolution on the analog touchpad.

wait what

I'm confused.  is it just a touchpad or is it a screen?  this controller confuses the shit out of me

It's a touchpad like on a laptop.  High resolution just means it'll be more precise...as precise as you can be with a finger.

[maxy]

Adam Simmons ‏@princeofcode
At PS4 dev talk. Platform is 64-bit x86. Dev environment is Win7 64-bit VS2010, LLVM/Clang with C++11 support. Wow, yes please.

/maxy

Windows 8 

Money is money.

[pickle]

Adam Simmons ‏@princeofcode
At PS4 dev talk. Platform is 64-bit x86. Dev environment is Win7 64-bit VS2010, LLVM/Clang with C++11 support. Wow, yes please.

Oooh LLVM. Noice.

[maxy]

pictures
http://www.engadget.com/gallery/playstation-4-dualshock-4-and-ps4-eye-gdc-2013/5771583/


Features list

IGN’s Greg Miller is on-hand for the event and has been live-tweeting tidbits from the presentation. We’ve gathered up what’s been shared below.

- Targeted to be the “central device in the living room”
- “Core gamers are our primary audience
- PS4 build around them, salable to the outsiders
- 5 core PS4 principles: Simple, Immediate, Social, Integrated, Personalized
- PS4 CPU: 64-bit x86 arch, low power consumption, low heat, 8 cores, 8 HW threads, 2MiB L2 cache per 4 core group, 32kib l1 I/D-cache
- PlayStation Shader Language, very similar to HLSL, allows featured BEYOND Direct X 11 and OpenGL 4.0
- “GPU – Tessellation – adding geometric detail to smooth edges or create more organic shapes”
- PS4 RAM – 8GB 256 bit GDDR5 (GDDR5 is very high end graphics memory only found on PC graphics cards)
- Will come with “very large hard drive in every console”
- PS4 Dev Environment – Windows 7-bit, tools are fully integrated into Visual Studio 2010 and 2012
- “Debug your PS4 code as you would your PC code”
- PS4 Controller: Start/Select buttons are now “Options.” New System button is “Share.”
- Speaker, headset hack and “extension port” on the PS4 controller
- PS4 controller buttons are going back to digital over analog because no one used it on PS3
- PS4 controller L2/R2 – Curved design to get rid of the accidental netflix fast forwarding
- PS4 controller: 1920×900 resolution on the analog touchpad
- PS4 controller colors are the Player Numbers: 1-Blue, 2-Red, 3-Green, 4-Pink (Like the buttons)
- PS4 will charge controllers when it’s off. Unlike the PS3.
- PS4 controller light bar can be used for muzzle flashes, health bars, etc
- “The #PS4 Eye will enhance the PS4 user experience.” High sensitivity dual color cameras – 1280×800, 12 bits/pixel, 60Hz
- Dedicated port for the #PS4 camera, exclusive SCE Connector. Means it won’t use a USB port on the console, but won’t plug into your PC.
- Cam suggested uses: walkthrough vids, taunting in killcam, login, speech recognition, etc; possible PS4 Camera Magic – Sees the controller, you guys move, splitscreen moves to be on the right side
- The above is what devs could do (not mandatory)
- Video example shown of PS4 combining the camera and the controller. “AR Menu”
- Zoom into the controller, tilt to shake little dudes inside, push into our world like EyePet
- 2004: XMB, 2011: LiveArea, 2013: New #PS4 one based on the five principles from earlier
- UI is meant to give you at a glance info without loading the game. See what new DLC is out and whatnot. What friends are saying.
- Have to enable people seeing your real name on the #PS4. Auto-enabled if you import from another social network. (Can be turned off)
- PSN friend limit raised
- PS4 Mock-up: Heavy Rain choice with the number of your friends that chose each option.
- All the PS4 streaming and sharing: that’s on the hardware. Devs don’t have to do anything special to their game.
- PS4 Remote Play: Screens are mirrored on PS4/Vita (Both on at same time). Hardware does it/not on devs. Start at any time; no special mode.
- Talking about the PlayStation App. Login, buy game, PS4 starts downloading at home, you get home and start playing the part that’s DWLD

Force feedback has two (1 small, 1 big) analog motors, as opposed to the digital ones in PS3. Allows for "more precise, cool effects."
Removing "analog" face buttons and going with digital will "cut latency way down" for the new controller.
The system will stream 32Khz sound up to 2 controllers, and 16Khz for 3 or more players.

[MCD]

- “Core gamers are our primary audience

- PS4 controller L2/R2 – Curved design to get rid of the accidental netflix fast forwarding

lol

[maxy]

People probably complained.

- Targeted to be the “central device in the basement”
- “Core gamers are our primary audience

Fixed.

hehehe

[mjemirzian]

- “Core gamers are our primary audience

That sound you hear is investors bailing out in droves.

[Cerveza mas fina]

What are you talking bout

[maxy]

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html
translated by rykomatsu

Rather long

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Part 1:

Focusing on the “positive aspects” and Moving to the x86 Architecture
Cerney states that he started thinking about a “next generation console” in Fall 2007. SCE should have gone into basic R&D regarding next gen technologies soon after PS3’s release and this falls in-line with when Cerney started investigating.

Cerney:   I had started discussions regarding the next generation following PS3 in 2007. At that time, I was investigating what should be done for next generation [technologies]. It was at that time, I wondered if we couldn’t use the x86 architecture for the next generation. I used then entirety of Thanksgiving weekend looking into this (lol). For Americans, this holiday is extremely important. But, that’s how I sacrificed (lol) the holidays to think about the future and what possibilities this might bring for our organization.

After that, I went to Phil Harrison since he was at the top of the game development division. I was also introduced to Masayuki Chatani who was SCE’s CTO at that time and was directing the next-gen project. What was surprising was that he said “yes” to me being involved with the next generation console.

By moving to the x86 architecture, this also means losing backwards compatibility with PS3. The basis of Cerney’s vision was to use this x86 architecture. This is a huge tradeoff, but SCE accepted this vision.

Cerney: We struggled with this point. As a matter of fact, this was the major point I thought about during Thanksgiving. What to do with the current CPU and x86…

We decided to focus on the “positive aspects” rising from switching to x86. X86 has instruction sets which are of significant importance for games. Multimedia instruction sets, specifically the existence of SSE 4.1 and 4.2. And of course, the existence of an APU gives us the ability to come close to the results obtained from the SPU.

The decision to move to x86 had an extremely complex set of requirements. Of course there’s issues of backwards compatibility and issues from the vendor’s side as well. But that said, I believe the biggest topic for us was how much affinity the developers would have for this change. In the past 3 years, there have been a large number of refined tools and technologies released for the x86 architecture. If another architecture had been selected, it probably would have been even more problematic. The x86 architecture is well known and development is relatively easy.

Ito: Backwards compatibility, particularly in Japan, is something that is strongly brought frequently, so we thought long and hard about this. Realistically, to support backwards compatibility with PS3, the CELL Broadband Engine would have needed to been part of the new console. Currently, it’s not possible to simulate this via software. If CELL were the only requirement, that wouldn’t have been much of an issue. We would also need to support the supporting hardware indefinitely. We can freely manufacture CELL if the decision is made that it is needed. However, that’s not the case with supporting hardware. There are parts which will become difficult to obtain since 7 years is already considered to be long in the IT industry…

Using this opportunity, we decided to stop going down this path, and as Mark said, to focus our efforts on simplifying developer efforts.

Essentially, SCE’s thinking was that when considering focusing on sustaining and maintaining PS3 (and prior) hardware long-term, they also saw the need to transition to a “more ordinary” platform. It can be interpreted that x86 offered easier development opportunities and also provided for a way to get away from a “proprietary” track, leading to this decision.
Now, SCE hasn’t come to a conclusion regarding the BC problem. It’s said that use of Cloud long-term is part of their vision, but more accurately, SCE is evaluating various content in various forms including sustaining BC.

GPU Customization with use of GPGPU in Mind. Difference in Launch Title Numbers
Use of the x86 architecture also means externally, it becomes difficult to see the difference between PC development. How does Cerney think about how to showcase the difference and value of PS4?

Cerney: Our primary target is to provide a powerful system that developers are familiar with. It goes without saying an x86 CPU has high familiarity. From a power perspective, and providing new possibilities, it will become more important to realize technologies benefiting from a GPU. GPUs increase graphics performance and have been used in that manner traditionally. But, the computing capabilities of GPU will be harnessed in various areas in manners we can’t even begin to think of now.

This essentially means, [PS4] will be a console that not only focuses on CPU performance, but also on GPU performance…essentially a realization of a console using a GPGPU. In fact, at the PS4 press conference, a physics demo using the GPGPU was shown, and PS4 has an added value proposition of having a high performance GPGPU as a core feature set of the platform. For that purpose, the PS3 CPU and GPU has a few proprietary tricks up its sleeve.

Cerney: The GPGPU for us is a feature that is of utmost importance. For that purpose, we’ve customized the existing technologies in many ways.

Just as an example…when the CPU and GPU exchange information in a generic PC, the CPU inputs information, and the GPU needs to read the information and clear the cache, initially. When returning the results, the GPU needs to clear the cache, then return the result to the CPU. We’ve created a cache bypass. The GPU can return the result using this bypass directly. By using this design, we can send data directly from the main memory to the GPU shader core. Essentially, we can bypass the GPU L1 and L2 cache. Of course, this isn’t just for data read, but also for write. Because of this, we have an extremely high bandwidth of 10GB/sec.

Also, we’ve also added a little tag to the L2 cache. We call this the VOLATILE tag. We are able to control data in the cache based on whether the data is marked with VOLATILE or not. If this tag is used, this data can be written directly to the memory. As a result, the entirety of the cache can be used efficiently for graphics processing.

This function allows for harmonization of graphics processing and computing, and allows for efficient function of both. Essentially “Harmony” in Japanese. We’re trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System (SPURS) of the PS3 by heavily customizing the cache and bus. SPURS is designed to virtualize and independently manage SPU resources. For the PS4 hardware, the GPU can also be used in an analogous manner as x86-64 to use resources at various levels. This idea has 8 pipes and each pipe(?) has 8 computation queues. Each queue can execute things such as physics computation middle ware, and other prioprietarily designed workflows. This, while simultaneously handling graphics processing.

This type of functionality isn’t used widely in the launch titles. However, I expect this to be used widely in many games throughout the life of the console and see this becoming an extremely important feature.







Note: I took out most of the commentary....

Part 2

GPU Customization with use of GPGPU in Mind. Difference in Launch Title Numbers (cont’d)
Cerney: In the next few years, we’ll also be supporting a different approach

We have our own shader APIs, but in the future, we’ll provide functions which will allow deeper access to the hardware level and it will be possible to directly control hardware using the shader APIs. As a mid-term target, in addition to common PC APIs such as OpenGL and DirectX, we’ll provide full access to our hardware.

Regarding the CPU, we can use well known hardware, and regarding the GPU, as developers devote time to it, new possibilities which weren’t possible before will open up.

The properties of CPU and GPU are quite difference, so in the current stage, if you were to use an unified architecture such as HSA, it will be difficult to efficiently use the CPU and GPU. However, once the CPU and GPU are able to use the same APIs, development efficiency should increase exponentially. This will be rather huge. Thus, we expect to see this as somewhat of a long-term goal.

Regarding easier development, talking about the action game KNACK

Cerney: I’ve spoken with a lot of developers, but most of the developers are saying that creating a game is considerably easier.

Working on a game myself, I feel that is true. KNACK is still in development, but the PS4, compared to the PS3, really makes game development easy.

This will also lead to the main difference with the PS3 era. The main difference is, we will have many titles for launch. Because game development is easier, there shouldn’t be a barrier as there had been previously. PS3 had the image that it was difficult to develop for. Even the PS2 wasn’t that easy. PS4 has a PC CPU and a GPU that’s been enhanced from a PC so the game lineup should become very rich.

The most important difference is, it won’t take as much technical training, so developers can focus more on the game-play aspects. That’s ideal isn’t it? As a result, [gamers] should a world with a richer gaming experience.
Regarding 4KTV, he is a little passive

Cerney: hm…(lol). Personally, I’m very interested in 4K

We’re still in the initial stages of supporting 4Kx2K in games. Our focus is to provide for a solid FullHD experience. We can secure the display buffer for Game and OS separately, and can provide for independent scaling of both as well. (Regarding 4K) We can provide an extremely smooth user interface.

If we consider purely memory bandwidth, with 4K, securing 2 displays worth of display buffer requires 10GB/sec. That just for simply displaying.
This is our simple answer for why we’re focusing on just the FullHD experience.

PS4 will read CDs, but will not play back audio CD music.

Realizing Energy Efficiency and Smoothness using a Second Custom Chip with Embedded CPU
Cerny: The second custom chip is essentially the Southbridge. However, this also has an embedded CPU. This will always be powered, and even when the PS4 is powered off, it is monitoring all IO systems. The embedded CPU and Southbridge manages download processes and all HDD access. Of course, even with the power off.

Ito: The second custom chip also takes into consideration environmental problems. For background downloading, if the main CPU needs to be started every time, energy consumption increases significantly, so we run this with the second chip. Particularly in Europe, there are strict energy consumption regulations, so handling consumption in this manner is also one of our goals.

Cerney: There’s also network bandwidth considerations. Background downloading allows for smooth downloading of large files even when bandwidth is limited.

More importantly, this helps reduce the time required until a game can be played. Simultaneously, this also allows for decreased initial downloads. Only the first few GB are downloaded during the initial play session and while the game is being played, the remaining portions will be downloaded. Of course, even with the power off, the remaining download will continue. So, the primary goal is to decrease the amount of download time before initial play.

Cerney: The data is logically divided into a few chunks, and uploaded [to the server by the dev?] with a specially annotated script. Further, based on how the script is written, additional customization is possible. For example, downloading of single player portion or multiplayer portion first…Related to this…system memory has increased by 16x since PS3, but the BD drive transfer speed has only increased a few fold. Because of this, using a similar technique, it’s possible to copy just the important parts from the BD to the HDD and start the game. By doing this, it’s possible to load directly more smoothly from the faster HDD. Of course, it’s possible to stream the data from a ginormous BD and play a game as well.










Note:Commentary removed again...getting late so sorry for typos
Part 3 (last one)


Built-In Video Encoder for Video Sharing and Vita Remote-Play
Cerney: The PS4 has a dedicated encoder for video sharing and such. There are a few dedicated encoder and decoder functions which are available and use the APU minimally. This is also used for playback of compressed in-game audio in MP3 and audio chat.

When the system is fully on, the x86 CPU core controls the video sharing system. However the Southbridge has features to assist with network traffic control.

Cerny: While investigating the initial hardware design, we had been thinking about what aspects will become important in the future. All hardware components have been prepared with enveloping the gamer with a realizing a wonderful user experience.

Our team thought deeply of the concept of “computer entertainment”. People from other Sony groups participated and we investigated this from many different angles. Since we are the “game” people, we have UI specialists, and Richard Marcks(sp?) (father of SCE’s Natural UI design)was involved as well. This multi-facetted team spent a few weeks discussing how amazing of a user-experience we could realize.

So, how does this affect games?

Ito: For example, even without a PS4, this time, we can use the PlayStation App to see game details (content?). Even without a PS4, you would be able to experience “man, this game looks fun” or “this game might be pretty good”. And with this, it is our hopes that the allure of the PS4 will be evident.
Of course, if a gamer shares images on Facebook, you can see this from Facebook without the PlayStation App.

Regarding Vita Remote-Play

Cerney: Vita Remote Play is special.
Smartphones and Tablets are used to see game information regarding the PS4 in various places, experienced in various places. In addition to this, this type of content can be seen on the PC as well using a web platform.

PS4 has video encoding hardware, and this is used with Video [Miracast?-type] feature. Vita’s control inputs are sent to the PS3, and using these functionalities, with minimal overhead and no pain, it becomes possible to remotely play PS4 games. Atleast, this is what we’re aiming for, and compared to the PS3 era, we’re aiming for a significantly wider support of remote play. Of course, this function applies to games using Dualshock. Games that use the camera (such as PS Move and PS4 location recognition) cannot utilize remoteplay.
Leaving that aside, Vita’s remote play was developed to provide as close to perfect PS4 gameplay within a household as possible. This requires connection to a Wifi network and should be used in a low latency environment. The thinking here is also that even if someone else is using the TV, you can continue playing PS4 games.

Use of Real Names for Gaming without Walls, Use of a BSD base for a Rich OS Layer
Cerney: We’re investigating using the network to switch control between players. Just keep in mind, this doesn’t mean these types of features will all be present on Day 1. Please understand that we’re preparing and investigating these as features supportable on the platform.
Either which way, use of social interactions to stimulate gameplay should become a huge weapon in our arsenal.

Just my image of things but…think of it like being in a living room. When you’re playing a game with your friends, there’s no physical wall to prevent interaction. It’s kind of like having hundreds of friends gaming with you nearby, but this feeling while you’re sitting at the end of a network. We want to act as the facilitators to enable this; to enable the feeling of actually meeting and enjoying gaming with your real world friends around the world. Over the course of a few years, we’ll support all the features required to support and achieve this goal.
For this purpose, PS4’s OS layer is very rich compared to PS3 or Vita

Cerney: The OS is based on BSD. I believe this is the first game console using this architecture.
From the OS side, the PS4 will allow use of many multiple features simultaneously. Our goal is something like the following:

Send a video of the game you’re playing, and return to the game immediately to continue playing. Then, watch a game play video from your friend, then switch to video chat with that friend right away. If you see interesting DLC that your friend has, move to the store, then be able to ask your friend if it’s the right one.
In this manner, we envision it to be possible to come-and-go between and use many features. Even for multi-player games, you would be able to move the game to the background without quitting, and go through a similar routine.

The facilitation by the OS will allow for a rich set of actions.

Regarding the “real name” policy

Cerney: The concept of aliases for online games is the current paradigm. For example, in a multiplayer deathmatch, it’s better to have an alias, right? However, when coop aspects or communications leveraging social interactions are brought into the game, it’s better not to have an alias. For example, let’s say you gift an item you earn in a game to a friend. That type of interaction should evoke a completely different feeling than when you’re playing the game.

Of course, we respect the desire to use an alias for game play as well. We support that type of gaming too. Having a deathmatch using aliases is possible on the PS4 as well. But at the same time, we want to support aspects which increase the fun of gaming with real world friends. For example, wouldn’t it be wonderful to meet a college friend you haven’t seen in ages?

[close]

Use of Real Names for Gaming without Walls, Use of a BSD base for a Rich OS Layer

Cerney: We’re investigating using the network to switch control between players. Just keep in mind, this doesn’t mean these types of features will all be present on Day 1. Please understand that we’re preparing and investigating these as features supportable on the platform.

Please understand

 

[mjemirzian]

PS3 had a couple pie in the sky promises that never panned out, either. Is anyone really going to be upset if you can't take control of your friend's game remotely?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Every Sony console is chock full of bullshit when it is originally announced.  Then over time you see the features slowly drop.  We probably won't know what the PS4 will actually do until October.

[Phoenix Dark]

pictures
http://www.engadget.com/gallery/playstation-4-dualshock-4-and-ps4-eye-gdc-2013/5771583/
(Image removed from quote.)

Features list

IGN’s Greg Miller is on-hand for the event and has been live-tweeting tidbits from the presentation. We’ve gathered up what’s been shared below.

- Targeted to be the “central device in the living room”
- “Core gamers are our primary audience
- PS4 build around them, salable to the outsiders
- 5 core PS4 principles: Simple, Immediate, Social, Integrated, Personalized
- PS4 CPU: 64-bit x86 arch, low power consumption, low heat, 8 cores, 8 HW threads, 2MiB L2 cache per 4 core group, 32kib l1 I/D-cache
- PlayStation Shader Language, very similar to HLSL, allows featured BEYOND Direct X 11 and OpenGL 4.0
- “GPU – Tessellation – adding geometric detail to smooth edges or create more organic shapes”
- PS4 RAM – 8GB 256 bit GDDR5 (GDDR5 is very high end graphics memory only found on PC graphics cards)
- Will come with “very large hard drive in every console”
- PS4 Dev Environment – Windows 7-bit, tools are fully integrated into Visual Studio 2010 and 2012
- “Debug your PS4 code as you would your PC code”
- PS4 Controller: Start/Select buttons are now “Options.” New System button is “Share.”
- Speaker, headset hack and “extension port” on the PS4 controller
- PS4 controller buttons are going back to digital over analog because no one used it on PS3
- PS4 controller L2/R2 – Curved design to get rid of the accidental netflix fast forwarding
- PS4 controller: 1920×900 resolution on the analog touchpad
- PS4 controller colors are the Player Numbers: 1-Blue, 2-Red, 3-Green, 4-Pink (Like the buttons)
- PS4 will charge controllers when it’s off. Unlike the PS3.
- PS4 controller light bar can be used for muzzle flashes, health bars, etc
- “The #PS4 Eye will enhance the PS4 user experience.” High sensitivity dual color cameras – 1280×800, 12 bits/pixel, 60Hz
- Dedicated port for the #PS4 camera, exclusive SCE Connector. Means it won’t use a USB port on the console, but won’t plug into your PC.
- Cam suggested uses: walkthrough vids, taunting in killcam, login, speech recognition, etc; possible PS4 Camera Magic – Sees the controller, you guys move, splitscreen moves to be on the right side
- The above is what devs could do (not mandatory)
- Video example shown of PS4 combining the camera and the controller. “AR Menu”
- Zoom into the controller, tilt to shake little dudes inside, push into our world like EyePet
- 2004: XMB, 2011: LiveArea, 2013: New #PS4 one based on the five principles from earlier
- UI is meant to give you at a glance info without loading the game. See what new DLC is out and whatnot. What friends are saying.
- Have to enable people seeing your real name on the #PS4. Auto-enabled if you import from another social network. (Can be turned off)
- PSN friend limit raised
- PS4 Mock-up: Heavy Rain choice with the number of your friends that chose each option.
- All the PS4 streaming and sharing: that’s on the hardware. Devs don’t have to do anything special to their game.
- PS4 Remote Play: Screens are mirrored on PS4/Vita (Both on at same time). Hardware does it/not on devs. Start at any time; no special mode.
- Talking about the PlayStation App. Login, buy game, PS4 starts downloading at home, you get home and start playing the part that’s DWLD

Force feedback has two (1 small, 1 big) analog motors, as opposed to the digital ones in PS3. Allows for "more precise, cool effects."
Removing "analog" face buttons and going with digital will "cut latency way down" for the new controller.
The system will stream 32Khz sound up to 2 controllers, and 16Khz for 3 or more players.

sounds good

[cool breeze]

comparing the Elemental UE4 demo (GTX 680) to the downgraded one shown on the PS4


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-unreal-engine-4-ps4-vs-pc

the recent Infiltrator demo was also running on the same hardware as that Elemental demo

[maxy]

So much for supercharged PC Cerny^TM

[Trent Dole]

What's said and shown initially is never how things actually turn out.

[mjemirzian]

Both those tech demos look pretty good to me. I'd hope nobody is seriously hung up on the differences.

[Damian79]

Both those tech demos look pretty good to me. I'd hope nobody is seriously hung up on the differences.

I dunno sometimes the difference is large  Like the sparks coming otu of his back when he gets up and the shadows from the sky.  I am hoping that it is just an early video which is probably what it is.

[pilonv1]

What's said and shown initially is never how things actually turn out.