Author Topic: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi  (Read 74297 times)

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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #360 on: April 21, 2014, 12:34:36 AM »
It's arguably the worst scene of the show. I can just imagine the show writers defending it, noting Jaime is rough with her in the books. But...he doesn't rape her in the book. It becomes a passionate sex scene, whereas I saw no passion in Cersei during that scene.

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ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #361 on: April 21, 2014, 12:38:22 AM »
Yeah, that was a definite shot-in-the-foot moment for the adaptation. I'm actually surprised at how much the showrunners misunderstood that scene in the book.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:41:18 AM by ZephyrFate »

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #362 on: April 21, 2014, 12:46:35 AM »
Too bad George won't say anything. I'd imagine the scene looked pretty innocuous in the script, so George saw it for the first time tonight with all of us.
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Vizzys

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #363 on: April 21, 2014, 03:03:05 AM »
usually I dont complain about changes but wow they fucked up tonight
萌え~

helios

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #364 on: April 21, 2014, 03:34:56 AM »
But what about the dongs?

ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #365 on: April 21, 2014, 04:13:56 AM »
i was happy with toned cool young dude's cock shot. also nice bush.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #366 on: April 21, 2014, 10:02:08 AM »
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fistfulofmetal

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #367 on: April 21, 2014, 10:09:17 AM »
i don't think it was necessarily intended as being rape but the director and actors didn't really understand the intent.
nat

Beezy

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #368 on: April 21, 2014, 10:38:47 AM »
PD, where are the coli episode reviews?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #369 on: April 21, 2014, 10:56:46 AM »
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Steve Contra

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #370 on: April 21, 2014, 01:06:58 PM »
Great episode except for that shit addition.  They better have a damn good reason for changing that.
vin

cool breeze

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #371 on: April 21, 2014, 01:45:03 PM »
the new Daario is so boring.

yeah, it's odd that they didn't cast someone who resembled or had a similar demeanor of the old actor.  he comes off like a different character this season.  the old actor seemed hyper confident.  new guy is like some devil may care dude.

Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #372 on: April 21, 2014, 01:51:09 PM »
This is all my fault.

I decided that the way they've shat on Jon Snow's character has been awful so I was going to latch onto Jaime (my second fave) instead because they were doing the character justice.

NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPEN
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #373 on: April 21, 2014, 02:38:24 PM »
This is all my fault.

I decided that the way they've shat on Jon Snow's character has been awful so I was going to latch onto Jaime (my second fave) instead because they were doing the character justice.

NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPEN

...you stay the fuck away from Tyrion.
yar

Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #374 on: April 21, 2014, 02:52:19 PM »
SEE IF YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER IS SAFE

my fave 5:

1. jon
2. jaime
3. THE ENTIRE MARTEL FAMILY
4. tyrion
5. Arya I guess?
IYKYK

Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #375 on: April 21, 2014, 02:57:52 PM »
FUCK YOU HIMURO
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Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #376 on: April 21, 2014, 03:05:26 PM »
AAHAHAHAHHAHAHA feel the pain
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #377 on: April 21, 2014, 03:12:06 PM »
1. Tyrion
2. Jaime
3. Arya
4. Jon
spoiler (click to show/hide)
5. Davos :pacspit haters
[close]
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helios

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #378 on: April 21, 2014, 03:17:38 PM »
People hate Davos? WTF?

Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #379 on: April 21, 2014, 03:18:13 PM »
1. Jaime
2. Tyrion
3. Jon
4. Barristan
5. Arya

ADWD spoilerish
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dany used to be number two until that awful fucking last book. Hoping she redeems herself.
[close]
yar

Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #380 on: April 21, 2014, 04:08:40 PM »
Dany is high for me.

Davos sucks.
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Steve Contra

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #381 on: April 21, 2014, 04:15:41 PM »
Davos is great.  He killed in this last episode.
vin

Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #382 on: April 21, 2014, 04:17:33 PM »
I like Davos more in show than the book.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #383 on: April 21, 2014, 04:18:42 PM »
If I had a "survive the series" card I could give to any character I'd hand it to Davos. I just want him to make it home to his wife and kids :tocry
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Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #384 on: April 21, 2014, 04:31:49 PM »
If I had a "survive the series" card I could give to any character I'd hand it to Davos. I just want him to make it home to his wife and kids :tocry

That I can understand.
IYKYK

CatsCatsCats

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #385 on: April 21, 2014, 04:39:48 PM »
Didn't his kids die at Blackwater?

Also this article pretty much sums it up http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499

Show is really starting to disappoint

Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #386 on: April 21, 2014, 04:40:46 PM »
No. He lost three sons. He has two other sons at home and one is Stannis' paige iirc.

As for that a club article, I'll give them the rest of the season to see how they play out the rest of ASOS. Depending on how it goes, I'm going to stop watching and be book only.
IYKYK

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #387 on: April 21, 2014, 04:51:05 PM »
The focus on needless shock content is very disappointing, and cheapens the show. They don't trust viewers to take in the content without some distraction before or during the scene. The books have explicit scenes obviously, and that Jaime/Cersei scene is one (featuring trademark bad fantasy novel sex dialogue). But using rape as a water cooler moment is pretty fucking low, and something Martin didn't do.

Although I will actually defend last night's brothel scene since it explained Oberyn's bisexuality well. Still, hopefully his future scenes are regular. There's not much else they can say about him, sex wise.
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Mandark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #388 on: April 21, 2014, 05:18:03 PM »
The Oberyn stuff is one thing, the Jaime/Cersei scene is another.

ASOIAF has a lot of world-building and regularly introduces characters whose backstories are really important.  You're going to get either flashbacks or big chunks of expository dialogue.  They've decided to go with the second (which is cheaper and more true to the source material), but every screenwriter has it hammered into their heads to not let characters stand around talking without anything visually interesting happening.  So they're going to throw in tits or swordfights or even more tits.  Sexposition's a cheesy trick but it's an understandable feature of the medium and the kind of story they have to tell, and ASOIAF's enjoyable in large part for the cheap thrills anyway.

That whole rape scene, though.  That's making a really big change to one of the characters that actually gets some complexity and development, and who should be one of the more sympathetic characters in the show going forward.  I read the books so long ago that I don't spot most of the changes, but that was jarring even to me.


PS Davos is the Hank Hill of Storm's End.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #389 on: April 21, 2014, 05:33:02 PM »
You're right about exposition, but the lack of variety makes it hard to take, four seasons in. They're often in the exact same location (Littlefinger's brothel). I'm not asking for a Last Airbender film approach of characters needlessly telling people shit to explain things.

For instance there was a great (new) scene last night with Tywin lecturing Tommen. It's heavy on exposition (*puts nerd hat on* including incorrectly stating Orys Baratheon was a king, when he was Hand *takes nerd hat off*), with the "distraction" device being Cersei. A grieving mother listening to her father shit on her dead son while beginning to take her remaining son away from her. It's a great scene that works really well and is carried by two great performances from Dance and Headey.



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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #390 on: April 21, 2014, 05:57:32 PM »
Martin responds:
Quote
This is off topic here. This is the section for comments about Junot Diaz and Anne Perry and the Cocteau's author program.

Since a lot of people have been emailing me about this, however, I will reply... but please, take any further discussion of the show to one of the myriad on-line forums devoted to that. I do not want long detailed dissections and debates about the TV series here on my blog.

As for your question... I think the "butterfly effect" that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.

The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.

Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.

If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.

That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.

Now, if you please, I'd appreciate it if we could get back to Junot Diaz and Anne Perry and the subjects of the original post.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html?thread=19030284#t19030284

basically "don't look at me." Definitely get the impression he was not a fan of that.  I enjoyed Jaime at the wedding in episode two but overall his early return to the capital was a poor decision, television wise.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 06:00:23 PM by Phoenix Dark »
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Diunx

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #391 on: April 22, 2014, 01:25:59 AM »
:dead @ the rape. did this people read wiki summaries of the books or some shit, they don't understand half the characters they are writing about.
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Diunx

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #392 on: April 22, 2014, 01:54:55 AM »
the new Daario is so boring.

yeah, it's odd that they didn't cast someone who resembled or had a similar demeanor of the old actor.  he comes off like a different character this season.  the old actor seemed hyper confident.  new guy is like some devil may care dude.


I blame the writers as much as the actor.

Book Daario:
Quote
He was still pissing when Daario Naharis rode up, arakh in
hand. “Shall I cut that off for you and stuff it down his mouth, Your Grace?  :mynicca

TV show Daario:
Quote
I don't do anything around here so I might as well fight him :yeshrug

 :snoop
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ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #393 on: April 22, 2014, 05:59:38 AM »
I've had my misgivings about the show producers before, but this season it's really starting to become a problem. Before, it was isolated in some storylines and some scenes, but now I'm starting to feel it more or less everywhere.

And I have no idea how they're gonna tackle The Ball of Beasts if they can fuck up such simple scenes now.

Mandark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #394 on: April 26, 2014, 01:07:27 PM »
Hey, what's a good resource for book-by-book plot summaries without spoilers for the whole series?  Thinking of catching up with the series, but I'm just not up for re-reading the first four books, and enough time has passed since I read them that lots of stuff is fuzzy or outright forgotten for me.

Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #395 on: April 26, 2014, 01:18:58 PM »
Hey, what's a good resource for book-by-book plot summaries without spoilers for the whole series?  Thinking of catching up with the series, but I'm just not up for re-reading the first four books, and enough time has passed since I read them that lots of stuff is fuzzy or outright forgotten for me.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Chapters
IYKYK

El Babua

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #396 on: April 26, 2014, 01:19:14 PM »
You can try the chapter summaries on the Ice and Fire wiki.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Chapters

G'damn it Himuro!

ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #397 on: April 27, 2014, 06:33:02 PM »
ADWD question:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're only like a season away from Quentyn's storyline. Does anyone think it'll be kept in in Season 5?
[close]

Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #398 on: April 27, 2014, 06:41:22 PM »
ADWD question:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're only like a season away from Quentyn's storyline. Does anyone think it'll be kept in in Season 5?
[close]

ADWD
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It honestly depends on how fast they move along with Dany's story, doesn't it?
[close]
yar

huckleberry

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #399 on: April 27, 2014, 07:06:14 PM »
ADWD

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think they will have to condense the Mareen storyline. It drags on forever in the books and would be horrid to see it drag on in the show.
[close]
wub

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #400 on: April 27, 2014, 07:13:50 PM »
ADWD question:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're only like a season away from Quentyn's storyline. Does anyone think it'll be kept in in Season 5?
[close]
ADWD
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Depends, I can see both sides. Based on what we know about this season, episode ten will feature the farmer presenting his kid's bones to Dany, and the dragons being locked up/Drogon escaping. Which means next season's big episode 9 moment will almost certainly be Daznak's Pit; I don't see how they can split Dany's ADWD chapters into two seasons, they pretty much have to finish it in one season.

They could cut Quentyn entirely, especially if they mix AFFC/ADWD into one season. Or they could do something like introduce him early in S5 after Doran tells him his mission/sends him to Slaver's Bay. The problem is that Quentyn is almost a plot device to pit Dorne against Dany, and that could presumably be done on the show without him. However if they introduce him I'd imagine they'll sex him up. His brief story in the books is basically the reverse of Prince Charming tropes where the prince (ironically nicknamed Frog) gets killed in horrible fashion. After what happens to Oberyn this season, I doubt viewers will be enthused about seeing a nerdy Martell get fucked up.

If they completely cut him they'll just come up with a reason for Dany and Dorne to fall out. Maybe just have some random Dornish representatives go to Meereen next season to present an alliance offer, they get turned down in an ugly fashion, etc.

Arianne is more important to the story IMO, especially if things go where they seem to be going based on her TWOW chapters.
[close]
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 07:19:21 PM by Phoenix Dark »
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #401 on: April 27, 2014, 09:58:56 PM »
Diunx meltdown in 3...2...
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Himu

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #402 on: April 27, 2014, 10:39:16 PM »
Not to mention the lack of Martel and Lannister history and pre war history that the TV show has skimped on. With Oberyn they have the prime opportunity to correct that but instead are more interested in his sexual exploits. I think the treatment of Oberyn has been kind of the final straw, and I won't be coming back for season 5. Because it is clear the show runners have a complete lack of regard for the majority of rhe characters and their intracacies. The only reason I've invested in the show is to see my favorite book movies come to life on screen. Maybe even enhance them by doing something different. But it is clear that aside from the large moments they are completely incapable of the character development the story requires. And this is ASOS, the action-packed, highly character development oriented book. Imagine their take on AFFC or ADWD. UGH. Yeah, I'm done after this season.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 10:41:54 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #403 on: April 27, 2014, 10:50:23 PM »
Seems like the show... RAPED THE SHARK.

yar

CatsCatsCats

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #404 on: April 27, 2014, 10:53:31 PM »
So another bad episode then? So disappoint.

Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #405 on: April 27, 2014, 10:55:40 PM »
I haven't watched it yet, but would agree that any more Oberyn sexual focus is too much Oberyn sexual focus. It's a shame as he's a really good actor portraying an interesting character, and everything ELSE he's had to work with has been great, but I guess the show runners really ARE 14 year old boys. Sigh.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #406 on: April 27, 2014, 10:57:39 PM »
I haven't watched it yet, but would agree that any more Oberyn sexual focus is too much Oberyn sexual focus. It's a shame as he's a really good actor portraying an interesting character, and everything ELSE he's had to work with has been great, but I guess the show runners really ARE 14 year old boys. Sigh.

nah the problem is they treat the audience like 14 year old boys.

Book readers complaining about getting spoiled lol. Tastes like karma.
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ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #407 on: April 27, 2014, 10:59:02 PM »
Anyone else kind of annoyed that the show has spent more time emphasizing Oberyn's sexual tastes than any other aspect of his character?

Letting the audience know that he likes a dude's rear as much as a woman's front is character development, I guess, but there are so many other aspects of his personality that the show is NOT developing so that it can really hammer home his sexual preferences.

I, for one, am annoyed.
It's refreshing to see someone openly bisexual on the show that is male, but I agree, they're spending a lot of time showing that, yes, Dornish people have a LOT of sex.

El Babua

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #408 on: April 27, 2014, 11:07:59 PM »
I agree about characterization and the showrunners having certain biases. Still, enjoying this season more than the others, partly because stuff I don't expect (either made up just for the show or a glimpse into the future) is happening more and more often now.

Also cacwalkers :dead

ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #409 on: April 27, 2014, 11:08:46 PM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
SER POUNCE IS IN YESSS
[close]

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #410 on: April 27, 2014, 11:13:29 PM »
The end of this episode is legit something either made up or a spoiler.
nat

ZephyrFate

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #411 on: April 27, 2014, 11:32:28 PM »
That has to be a
spoiler (click to show/hide)
TWOW spoiler. WTF
[close]

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #412 on: April 27, 2014, 11:36:01 PM »
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CatsCatsCats

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #413 on: April 27, 2014, 11:52:12 PM »
Holy shit, that's interesting

El Babua

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #414 on: April 27, 2014, 11:56:41 PM »
:whew

Even if Winds releases in 2015, the show's probably gonna finish before GRRM. Unless he's been on that 1997-2000 level speed since last year.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #415 on: April 28, 2014, 12:01:49 AM »
IMO there are two explanations

series speculation
spoiler (click to show/hide)
1. Some website editor/writer goofed, and threw a name into the article with no understanding that it relates to the series.

2. It was intended, and there's actually a new Night's King.

Dunno brehs. It could potentially be Benjen, or someone older. I've long believed Stannis was on the path towards becoming the new Night's King but this could potentially shitcan that theory.
[close]
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CatsCatsCats

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #416 on: April 28, 2014, 12:15:39 AM »
That was pretty fuckin bad ass actually.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #417 on: April 28, 2014, 12:23:25 AM »
welp

spoilers
spoiler (click to show/hide)
There are 13 Others in the background of the scene. In the books, the first Night's King was the 13th Lord Commander of the NW.

Even weirder, this seems to tie into a theory someone posted on Reddit a couple weeks ago. I remember reading it at the time and thinking it was one of the more legit sounding pieces of speculation, and now here we are.
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/
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Diunx

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #418 on: April 28, 2014, 12:51:56 AM »
What the fuck! this will be my last season of the show, no way I'm getting the fucking series spoiled! and I will begin to check this thread before watching in case there are more spoilers :maf
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Game Of Thrones S4: Her name isn't Khaleesi
« Reply #419 on: April 28, 2014, 01:03:48 AM »
What the fuck! this will be my last season of the show, no way I'm getting the fucking series spoiled! and I will begin to check this thread before watching in case there are more spoilers :maf

Give in breh, you know Martin is gonna dirtnap before he finishes. Show will end up being cannon. :jawalrus

Also, did I miss what everyone has their panties in a bunch over? Was Oberyn even IN this episode? Episode was pretty solid overall imo.
yar