What are your ardently held controversial opinions on music?

[El Babua]

Cajole isn't here so this won't have any pushback but...I've never really liked The Who. They have good albums obviously but I always felt they were missing something that bands like the Stones or Zeppelin had.

Studio Who aren't even the same band as Live Who IMO. The only studio album I enjoyed from them track to track (for the most part, anyway) was Quadrophenia. Live at Leads and Isle of Wright are fantastic and right up there with the best of their time.

[Phoenix Dark]

Cajole isn't here so this won't have any pushback but...I've never really liked The Who. They have good albums obviously but I always felt they were missing something that bands like the Stones or Zeppelin had.

listened to who's next?

Yea. Not saying they're bad, I just don't rank them high personally compared to the 60s-70s shit I like.

[Mr. Nobody]

Somewhere along the line in the 2000s, "conscious" hiphop forgot that it was supposed to be entertaining as well as informative and observant.

Sure the message is positive, but the music itself is no more interesting than elevator music.

Maybe it has to deal with me getting older but much of the "real" hiphop I championed at one point is real boring to me now.

[Himu]

Cajole isn't here so this won't have any pushback but...I've never really liked The Who. They have good albums obviously but I always felt they were missing something that bands like the Stones or Zeppelin had.

listened to who's next?

Yea. Not saying they're bad, I just don't rank them high personally compared to the 60s-70s shit I like.

agreed

[Phoenix Dark]

Somewhere along the line in the 2000s, "conscious" hiphop forgot that it was supposed to be entertaining as well as informative and observant.

Sure the message is positive, but the music itself is no more interesting than elevator music.

Maybe it has to deal with me getting older but much of the "real" hiphop I championed at one point is real boring to me now.

Absolutely nothing controversial about this.

It still amazes me that rap nerds who grew up listening to Pete Rock, Dilla, Premo, etc created some of the most empty production with wack drums and weak bass that doesn't bump in the whip. Go listen to an ATCQ album in your car - that shit bumped. "Conscious rap" used to bump in the 80s and 90s. Then the 00s came along...

thank god it's gotten much better now.

[Cheddahz]

ODB will forever be the best member of the Wu Tang

[Himu]

ATCQ in a car with a good sound system

And Cruncheon says music isn't that important

[jakefromstatefarm]

Where Eagles Dare was their best RAF/Luftwaffe song

neo-soul is mom music

[Pickles the Firecat]

My controversial opinion is that music in general is in a totally amazing place in 2014. Hip-hop specifically has hit a creative peak over the past five years that no other era comes close to. I mean that in terms of variety, depth, experimentation, availability, accessibility--the entire gamut. Local underground scenes have become incubators for sounds that can grow beyond their cities thanks to the internet. So you have LA beat culture, Chicago footwork/juke, southern trap, PNW witchhouse, etc etc all thriving and churning out incredible artists with distinct styles. My favorite part of spending time in other places is just hitting their weeklies and hearing a cities sound. Turntabilism, NY street rap, and other stuff may have fallen off...but what is replacing it is just as good. And more readily incorporates elements from other sonic spaces.

At the same time, I think there is too much emphasis on bangers and making impactful music in a lot of scenes. I don't think a lot of guys have hit on the idea that you can give something emotional weight without being bombastic. The ubiquity of trap is kind of responsible for that imo. A trip-hop revival would really open some guys eyes and push them into new spaces. Musicians in general do a horrible job of mentoring future generations and have only gotten worse at it in today's age. So discovering those things is a personal process and a lot of guys will get there. You can hear Lil Sad putting pieces together as they drop newer material. Lot of other guys too.

Along those lines, I fucking LOVE the fact that we can follow and artists progression from song to song now. Their thought process, what they've learned, how they're applying new techniques, flirting with different elements of different genres...it's all just raw and open to consume. So yeah, a lot of the soundcloud guys are unpolished and kind of hodgepodge but it's because we're watching them become whole from the very beginning. I would kill to have that experience with DJ Shadow, Amon Tobin, Carl Craig, and tons of other guys. It's so dope. You listen to a guy like doujinshi (kitty krew 4 lyfe) evolve over time through just fucking around and taking elements here and there, learning what to keep going forward...it's just such a better understanding of the artist. It's fascinating.

[Mr. Nobody]

ATCQ in a car with a good sound system

And Cruncheon says music isn't that important

Luck of Lucien 

DE LA

[jakefromstatefarm]

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/so-tupac-invented-the-term-larry-holmes-flabby-n-sick.78217/page-4#post-2877176

every time I think of De La Soul

[Phoenix Dark]

To pick up on what Pickles said, the super frustrating thing about today is you can really see how a lot of these kids bursting with talent would be able to hone it into something special if they had someone in their corner - be it an A&R, real producer, etc. Just look at how Vince Staples went from being just another good rapper to a dope ass artist the minute No I.D. took him under the wing.

Instead right now we essentially have a giant sausage factory that produces a variety of interesting tracks, then the "artist" disappears. The true benefactor of this tends to be established artists like Kanye who can simply cherry pick the talent, add it to his machine, and run with it. It reminds me of that scene in The Wire where D'Angelo says whoever created the chicken nugget is probably slaving over an oven in a basement, trying to come up with a way to make the fries taste better. If he succeeds McDonalds takes the credit and it's on to the next one.

[Mr. Nobody]

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/so-tupac-invented-the-term-larry-holmes-flabby-n-sick.78217/page-4#post-2877176

every time I think of De La Soul

We laughed about it later with a bunch of our peoples. It was so disrespectful, but it's a priceless memory. I wish I hadn't met de la, their first two albums were really important to me as a hip hop fan, and I haven't listened to any of their shit on purpose since meeting them. They were that corny to me.

  Damn.

As much as I love it, I can concede that Stakes Is High is "grumpy old men: the album", but corny?

Then again, they touched on that with "Is Dead" so...

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea but Stakes Is High is undeniably dope.

[jakefromstatefarm]

Where Eagles Dare was their best RAF/Luftwaffe song

and Seventh Son is their best album

[Himu]

Controversial opinion:

The internet has ruined music. Good music is being made, no doubt. It always will be made. And the amazing thing about the internet is that you can go to previous era's, so that's a positive too and something no previous generations could have done, and it's something we must not take for granted. But even with the indie and lesser known acts included, I still find music of today to have less variety and more incomplete than what I listened to twenty years ago. One of the big problems is the death of the album. Albums just aren't that important in the grand scheme anymore, and are probably an outdated model. This leads to musicians concentrating their output on single tracks, but not cohesive albums that form the finality of the artists' message. The fact that you can just grab an album online for free or a track for 99 cents really contributed to this, and I'm not going to say I didn't do my part in contributing to this, but it still makes me sad. Oh well, farewell to an era.

It's like we're living in an age that has the possibility to bring about a new golden age of mainstream music, but we aren't going to get it because the game has changed so much. Like, there's a lot of great new musicians out there, but I'm not seeing any classic albums from them. It's like we're just flirting with potential, and I think this is true for all genres, except electronic because it somehow has managed to keep its underground status despite going more mainstream.

This probably isn't a controversial opinion. Just had to express it.

[tiesto]

The only era of Madonna to even come close to her early 80s eras was Ray of Light era.

I'll back you up on this. William Orbit



Also my controversial opinion - I don't "get" My Bloody Valentine at all.

[nudemacusers]

well it was certainly more... special? to discover new music. I remember back in the day, before napster, direct connect, youtube, etc I would get recommendations on shit from the local record store (RIP Sight & Sound, van probably remembers this one ), and having to wait a couple weeks in some cases to get my hands on it. granted, I was a teen at the time, but now I can flip through like 100 albums in an hour and just skip if a track doesn't grab me in 10 seconds. I have to force myself sometimes to sit down and just listen to something new start to finish.

I really didn't like ok computer at all after I first bought it, but after a couple of full listens it completely grabbed me. I don't know if I do that anymore.

[jakefromstatefarm]

well it was certainly more... special? to discover new music. I remember back in the day, before napster, direct connect, youtube, etc I would get recommendations on shit from the local record store (RIP Sight & Sound, van probably remembers this one ), and having to wait a couple weeks in some cases to get my hands on it. granted, I was a teen at the time, but now I can flip through like 100 albums in an hour and just skip if a track doesn't grab me in 10 seconds. I have to force myself sometimes to sit down and just listen to something new start to finish.

Yes. I feel like it's really easy to rail on the health of the industry (which is completely warranted, don't get me wrong) while glossing over the fact that the very way we consume music now has changed drastically. Saturation works both ways and I think the aesthetic of contemporary "mainstream" (whatever that means this week) music has to do with a combination of a) the immense dissemination of music caused by the rise of the internet b) a nose-diving focus of consumer interest that's reflected in sales across all media platforms and c) labels responding to a and b by creating and investing predominantly in conservative products.

[Himu]

well it was certainly more... special? to discover new music. I remember back in the day, before napster, direct connect, youtube, etc I would get recommendations on shit from the local record store (RIP Sight & Sound, van probably remembers this one ), and having to wait a couple weeks in some cases to get my hands on it. granted, I was a teen at the time, but now I can flip through like 100 albums in an hour and just skip if a track doesn't grab me in 10 seconds. I have to force myself sometimes to sit down and just listen to something new start to finish.

I really didn't like ok computer at all after I first bought it, but after a couple of full listens it completely grabbed me. I don't know if I do that anymore.

Well yeah. It has its plusses and minuses.

What you say is true, but I miss being able to just read a magazine, watch mtv/bet/vh1 for new songs, and just buying an album. It was simple. It didn't take that much time. Now I've got to follow youtube, facebook, soundcloud, twitter, a billion different music sites depending on music genre niche and expertise, spotify, itunes, all this fucking shit. It's so fragmented and annoying.

[Himu]

I can buy that.

[TakingBackSunday]

- There hasn't been a decent alternative/rock/indie/whatever album in half a decade

fuck out of here

Titus Andronicus, the last 5 years, has written some of the best punk rock music in punk history.  They got a sire in Diarrhea Planet, as well.

[TakingBackSunday]

I prefer Neon Bible but I more or less agree with you

[TakingBackSunday]

have you listened to the bands I mentioned?

[Mr. Nobody]

Naughty By Nature was corny as fuck

[I'm a Puppy!]

Controversial opinion:

The internet has ruined music. Good music is being made, no doubt. It always will be made. And the amazing thing about the internet is that you can go to previous era's, so that's a positive too and something no previous generations could have done, and it's something we must not take for granted. But even with the indie and lesser known acts included, I still find music of today to have less variety and more incomplete than what I listened to twenty years ago. One of the big problems is the death of the album. Albums just aren't that important in the grand scheme anymore, and are probably an outdated model. This leads to musicians concentrating their output on single tracks, but not cohesive albums that form the finality of the artists' message. The fact that you can just grab an album online for free or a track for 99 cents really contributed to this, and I'm not going to say I didn't do my part in contributing to this, but it still makes me sad. Oh well, farewell to an era.

It's like we're living in an age that has the possibility to bring about a new golden age of mainstream music, but we aren't going to get it because the game has changed so much. Like, there's a lot of great new musicians out there, but I'm not seeing any classic albums from them. It's like we're just flirting with potential, and I think this is true for all genres, except electronic because it somehow has managed to keep its underground status despite going more mainstream.

This probably isn't a controversial opinion. Just had to express it.

Nah, the music scene needed a kick in the ass after how bullshit it got from the mid 90's on. Especially how terribly run the business side of it was, still is and probably will be for a long time. The internet saved it if anything with bandcamp, itunes, spotify, etc. regardless how I find them to be for my own sake, give more options and more of an audience for everybody. Music has gotten more and more for niche audiences that exist, yes. But the variety is more than it has been in a while.

Problem some people have, which is completely understandable to me, is that there's a lot more effort involved in finding it. I honestly don't mind the effort considering the music I found. But in my honest opinion if you're not going to put effort into finding music today you can't really shit on an entire for music considering how much is out there and how much of it is good, could be good or could be bad in a good way.

I can sorta get this but at the same time before there was a bit of a wall of resources you had to overcome to get your music out there. Now there's a lot more music out there for everyone but the issue is the same as the publishing industry. Before, an album would be heavily produced and they'd run it through the ringer back and forth and sideways, and many times artists were told "Nah, that doesn't work so well, try it like this" (when you're an artist you need people to tell you when you stink) and when it worked well you had incredibly polished wonderful music. Now, any schmuck with enough money can have an "album" out there. and if they don't have someone that's an honest critic it all becomes unpolished and self indulgent. There is a lot of good talent out there that could be great if they had one of those more traditional big name producers.

[jakefromstatefarm]

Naughty By Nature was corny as fuck

I have no problem with this opinion

Treach is one of the best technical mc's ever though

[Phoenix Dark]

Naughty By Nature was corny as fuck

I have no problem with this opinion

Treach is one of the best technical mc's ever though

imagine a world where Mobb Deep was Prodigy and Treach, with Havoc strictly on the boards for the second album.

[tiesto]

I love a lot of punks overall influence on many things I loved but generally as music i find it largely boring. I like some hardcore and a very limited amount of grind but that's it.

That's pretty much how I feel about reggae. It has influences in a lot of music I really like (and even influenced Hip Tanaka) but I don't like the traditional stuff at all.

[Atramental]

This track is awesome

[I'm a Puppy!]

Classical guitar is like tying your shoes with your tongue.  Its incredibly difficult and can impress, but really it's just a novelty and a party trick

[I'm a Puppy!]

Controversial opinion:

The internet has ruined music. Good music is being made, no doubt. It always will be made. And the amazing thing about the internet is that you can go to previous era's, so that's a positive too and something no previous generations could have done, and it's something we must not take for granted. But even with the indie and lesser known acts included, I still find music of today to have less variety and more incomplete than what I listened to twenty years ago. One of the big problems is the death of the album. Albums just aren't that important in the grand scheme anymore, and are probably an outdated model. This leads to musicians concentrating their output on single tracks, but not cohesive albums that form the finality of the artists' message. The fact that you can just grab an album online for free or a track for 99 cents really contributed to this, and I'm not going to say I didn't do my part in contributing to this, but it still makes me sad. Oh well, farewell to an era.

It's like we're living in an age that has the possibility to bring about a new golden age of mainstream music, but we aren't going to get it because the game has changed so much. Like, there's a lot of great new musicians out there, but I'm not seeing any classic albums from them. It's like we're just flirting with potential, and I think this is true for all genres, except electronic because it somehow has managed to keep its underground status despite going more mainstream.

This probably isn't a controversial opinion. Just had to express it.

Nah, the music scene needed a kick in the ass after how bullshit it got from the mid 90's on. Especially how terribly run the business side of it was, still is and probably will be for a long time. The internet saved it if anything with bandcamp, itunes, spotify, etc. regardless how I find them to be for my own sake, give more options and more of an audience for everybody. Music has gotten more and more for niche audiences that exist, yes. But the variety is more than it has been in a while.

Problem some people have, which is completely understandable to me, is that there's a lot more effort involved in finding it. I honestly don't mind the effort considering the music I found. But in my honest opinion if you're not going to put effort into finding music today you can't really shit on an entire for music considering how much is out there and how much of it is good, could be good or could be bad in a good way.

I can sorta get this but at the same time before there was a bit of a wall of resources you had to overcome to get your music out there. Now there's a lot more music out there for everyone but the issue is the same as the publishing industry. Before, an album would be heavily produced and they'd run it through the ringer back and forth and sideways, and many times artists were told "Nah, that doesn't work so well, try it like this" (when you're an artist you need people to tell you when you stink) and when it worked well you had incredibly polished wonderful music. Now, any schmuck with enough money can have an "album" out there. and if they don't have someone that's an honest critic it all becomes unpolished and self indulgent. There is a lot of good talent out there that could be great if they had one of those more traditional big name producers.

Sure, but that issue isn't all and completely the entire industry. Not like said problems didn't exist before. An artist would get too big and nobody would tell him no. Now for you to stand out you have to be great, and especially great live cause that is now the biggest way to get money.

I won't act like the producers didn't help before and weren't at least partly responsible for some great stuff. But I also won't act like they didn't fuck up things either. Taking something about the older times being less important as the main reason music now is not good as *pick your favorite era here* is just a smarter way of saying "this is not the music that came out when I was a kid so it wasn't as good" IMO. Like when PD was talking about A&Rs.

Perhaps I'm misstating. What I'm trying to get at is that sometimes good music takes a lot of money, for talent, production, etc. Think of it this way, Bach's St Mathew's Passion takes two orchestras and 3 choirs to perform. He could do that because he had a great patron who knew his talent. Earlier with the conglomeration of money those that had the studio's ear could use the studio's money to make whatever their/their producer's vision come true. Cake gave an interview a few months ago for their latest self financed album and they were talking about how more and more of their musician friends are having to make music a part-time thing for them because they're just not getting enough money and they were worried that they'll have to too. I've always said your greatest strength is your greatest weakness, it's the same thing here. The greatest strength of the old model is that because there was a huge wall to get noticed by studios that (at best) kept out a lot of crap and it also meant that if you made it to the studio you'd have the resources to focus on music exclusively and to make whatever you/your producer imagined and make it a reality, further, since studios had their own set of producers and engineers you had all these really different kinds of people coming in and influencing music (again, at best for the better though it also failed several times). but the greatest weakness to that was a bunch of nepotism and a whole bunch very deserving talent was completely left out of the game entirely and it was terrible for consumers. The great thing about the new model is essentially everyone can partake if they want, it's great for the consumer. The bad stuff about it is that since there's no real bar for entry there's a lot more crap out there, and because the market is so democratized it's a lot harder for the artist to make it "big" and to have the resources to make whatever they want a reality (though technology will help, but you can't really replace the people factor). Further since this all "self-made" they're missing that eclectic outside voice and people get into a echo-chambers.

It's just different. With everything different you exchange some things for another. I'm sure there's good music being made by these smaller groups. But honestly I don't have the time to go and seek them out.

[Rufus]

Even most good songs aren't worth listening all the way through. At all, or attentively.

The quality of your sound is more important than what notes you play. Quality in the sense of attributes, not "good" and "bad". In the same way that texture is important for food.

[Mupepe]

I just heard that Beyonce 7-11 song.  I'm feeling really old right now.

[kick51]

Gotta agree about it not being as fun to discover new stuff these days. Might be a personal problem for me though.  I hit saturation a couple years ago and didn't even realize it until a few days ago.  It occurred to me that I hadn't bought or looked up new music in forever. :   I think the only new group I dug into in that time was Dean Blunt and Inga Copeland.  They had some mystique, though their music is very hit or miss. 

I had a fucking blast from about 00-05.  I'd go see bands based on a blurb written about them on my favorite bar's website. I'd try to look up some stuff and sometimes I'd find stuff about them online, sometimes not.  I feel like there was a pretty big explosion of creativity around that time with instrument and song structure experimentation, following the first wave of post-rock and IDM and shit like that.  I had the feeling that I needed to really dig and discover stuff myself.  I'm sure that type of active listening is still possible, I just got tired and saturated.


my "controversial" opinion: once Phish breaks up, no more rock/progressive/fusion bands who incorporate a heavy amount of improvisation into their show will get as popular again.  That's it for progressive + improvised rock music past the bar/small club level.  It's a shame they're so pigeon-holed by their scene, which is all annoying fratty white boys and a few leftover pseudo-hippies.  Lead guitarist can't even do symphonic full-orchestra performances without the "scene" showing up and being annoying.  but their musical output and what they do on stage is pretty unprecedented, so it'll be a sad day when they hang it up.

[Human Snorenado]

Prog rock is inherently shitty

[Human Snorenado]

Guys who earnestly play banjos (Mumford and Sons, Avett Brothers) are going to burn in hell for all of eternity for crimes against good taste

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Biggie=Guru >>>>>>>>>>>>Old school NAS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TUPAC>>>>>>>Any NAS after ether

[Human Snorenado]

Biggie=Guru >>>>>>>>>>>>Old school NAS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TUPAC>>>>>>>Any NAS after ether

This guy knows what he's talking about

[Am_I_Anonymous]

While we're at it

Pre sold out Cube >>>>eazy>>>>>>>>Dre>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>snoop

[Rufus]

Guys who earnestly play banjos (Mumford and Sons, Avett Brothers) are going to burn in hell for all of eternity for crimes against good taste

Victor Wooten plays bass in Béla Fleck's band. I haven't listened to many of their songs, but I think a big reason he's there is because the banjo gives his bass a LOT of room.

[Human Snorenado]

Guys who earnestly play banjos (Mumford and Sons, Avett Brothers) are going to burn in hell for all of eternity for crimes against good taste

Victor Wooten plays bass in Béla Fleck's band. I haven't listened to many of their songs, but I think a big reason he's there is because the banjo gives his bass a LOT of room.

Hippie jam bands

[Mr. Gundam]

Muse is probably the best rock band from 2001 to the present among rock bands who started in 2001 or later (not including metal here).

Huh? Muse's first album is from 1999.

[I'm a Puppy!]

whoa whoa whoa there AIA, easy was easily the best in the bunch.

[Rufus]

Guys who earnestly play banjos (Mumford and Sons, Avett Brothers) are going to burn in hell for all of eternity for crimes against good taste

Victor Wooten plays bass in Béla Fleck's band. I haven't listened to many of their songs, but I think a big reason he's there is because the banjo gives his bass a LOT of room.

Hippie jam bands

I know their name. Wooten is legit though.

[kick51]

That weird drum guitar machine is legit. 

bela fleck is another great example of "not actually a hippie jam band, but guilty by association."  3 virtuoso musicians, but damned for eternity

[Human Snorenado]

Dave Matthews Band was amazing for a good stretch of time. Before These Crowded Streets is a top 100 album.

Incubus is legit one of the best bands of all time.

Pearl Jam was awesome all the way through Yield.

[TakingBackSunday]

I never really got David Bowie.

[jakefromstatefarm]

Clapton is a humongous piece of shit who deserves to have his career torpedoed and his memory wiped clean from staining future generations





...but Layla is the goat riff.

[Mr. Gundam]

I never really got David Bowie.

Not even Ziggy Stardust? I can get not liking the rest of this catalog, but ZS is absolutely perfect.

[Human Snorenado]

Start with Hunky Dory. It's his most accessible, "poppy" album.

[Dickie Dee]

Bela Fleck is legit good and was never part of the Mumford/Avett waistcoat-brigade. Dude has been rocking a mullet for like 30 years now.

[TakingBackSunday]

Only albums I really liked were ZS and Low.

[Mr. Nobody]

Takeover was better than Ether 

[Himu]

Young Americans has Bowie's most pop shit

[I'm a Puppy!]

Joseph Haydn didn't write much of anything good.

Mozart wrote some real gems, but a lot of his output sounds kind of same-y. You can often predict exactly how he's going to resolve a melody, exactly which chord changes he's going to use, etc.

Saxophone shredding is boring. Cannonball Adderley and John Coltrane both did this too often.

Eric Clapton was never that great.

Agreed on all accounts.  But without Haydn there would be no Mozart and when Mozart is on his game he's untouchable

[recursivelyenumerable]

Coldplay is tolerable

[Mr. Gundam]

For every accessible Bowie song, there are five experimental noodling tunes which turn people off. And I say that as a huge Bowie fan.

[El Babua]

The Wall is one of the worst Pink Floyd albums (some really good individual cuts, but it actually sucks balls as one whole piece)

Mainstream Rock has been whack since the 80's

Jay Z has always been a ehh rapper, still a decent songwriter

[Himu]

only great thing about the wall is another brick in the wall parts 1 and 2.