It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!

[headwalk]

Looper was great!

there's a nerdy lameness to everything he does. a try hard prescribed idea of cool that reminds me of fashion threads on neogaf.

strongly suspect the bloke has never lived a day in his life and probably got where he is because his parents bought him the nicest camera at film school.

[chronovore]

It's always amusing to see people spending their day posting on a forum speculating that other people don't have a life.

[eleuin]

After finding out that Oscar Isaac is short for Oscar Isaac Hernández Estrada and realizing that SW:TFA stars a woman, a black dude, and a hispanic dude going up against an unstable white man, my group of friends have decided that the movie was pretty amazing. Have any butthurt think pieces shown up yet?

Even the asian woman survives the ordeal 

[Great Rumbler]

After finding out that Oscar Isaac is short for Oscar Isaac Hernández Estrada and realizing that SW:TFA stars a woman, a black dude, and a hispanic dude going up against an unstable white man, my group of friends have decided that the movie was pretty amazing. Have any butthurt think pieces shown up yet?

Even the asian woman survives the ordeal 

We are truly living in a brand new world.

[Bebpo]

Saw Star Wars.  I thought it was good, but not great and will be completely forgettable like the prequels because of story decisions.  I'd give it a B, here's things I liked and main issues I had:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

bebpotril: it's not even that I thought Star Wars was bad, I thought it was like a B
bebpotril: but it was like first half was 10/10 THIS MOVIE IS DELIVERING WOW I'M GLAD I HAD NO EXPECTATIONS, and then the 2nd half was like 7/10 generic by-the-books remake of episode IV
bebpotril: I feel like the first half was great and had a sense of adventure and new ideas.  A Stormtrooper breaking rank, a new wave of jedis in the force, cool new aliens and driods, tie fighter flying woooooo, that first millennium falcon escape on Jakku through the remnants of old Star Destroyers and that final part where she cuts the engines to line up the last shot, the dynamic between the girl and fin, the part with han and the two merc groups and then they let out the GRABBERS...all of that was great and well directed, new fun take on Star Wars universe post epVI with good characters
bebpotril: then the second half is literally THE EMPIRE PART 2 HAS A PLANET DESTROYER RAY, YOU FOUND THE LIGHTSABER AND ARE THE NEW ONLY JEDI HOPE, THE REBEL ALLIANCE FORMS A PLAN TO BLOW UP THE DEATH STAR, DOES SO WHILE OBI-WAN HAN BEING STRUCK DOWN, DARTH VADER2 IS SCARED BUT NOT KILLED TO COME BACK STRONGER, it's just...not only mostly a completely unneeded remake of EpIV a New Hope, but besides that it's just so cookie-cutter constructed by committee plotting that it's just utterly uninteresting and makes the movie kind of pointless besides just a well directed introduction for the characters in hopes of a good story popping up in Ep8 or 9.
bebpotril: Even the title, "THE SEARCH FOR LUKE" is pretty much only in the first half of the movie.  They're searching for him, they get to the rebels and find out they only have half the map.  Then THE SEARCH FOR LUKE just stops and the 2nd half of New Hope remake happens and then it jumps to basically post-credit scene of "oh, instantly here is the other half of the map, instantly go jump there, bam search is done; here is luke". 
bebpotril: I dunno, it just feels so weird, like two different movies, where the first half is great and has momentum and the second half is like pointless and just some setups for Ep8/9.  Just feels like it could've been so much more with a better plotted script for the 2nd half that continued the sense of adventure and searching that the first half has.  But it felt like WE NEED A NEW DEATH STAR TO BLOW UP WITH SOME REBELS or something and you got part 2
bebpotril: that being said there was one scene I actually liked in the 2nd half and that was the Jedi battle in the snow.  Was a nice fight.  But otherwise didn't really like anything after the cafe place in the forest
/spoiler]

[close]

[Tasty]

Originally Poe Dameron was supposed to die but Abrams "figured it out" after Isaacs was cast.

[chronovore]

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/12/18/my-non-spoilery-review-of-the-force-awakens/

Scalzi, everyone's favorite Heinlein-channeler, has written a good piece on TFA. It encapsulates how it feels to be a lifetime star war stan and to have JJ deliver us from evil. To, possibly, a different evil.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Originally Poe Dameron was supposed to die but Abrams "figured it out" after Isaacs was cast.

Huh? Not in the book.

[Mods Help]

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/12/18/my-non-spoilery-review-of-the-force-awakens/

Scalzi, everyone's favorite Heinlein-channeler, has written a good piece on TFA. It encapsulates how it feels to be a lifetime star war stan and to have JJ deliver us from evil. To, possibly, a different evil.

That's not a hell for me at all, but subjectivity I guess. And yeah, he's right. 100%.

[Mods Help]

Great comment in his review:

I think that you temper expectations well, but we all suffer from giving the original 3 a lot more credit than they deserve. When you say Ep 7 isn’t the best Sci-Fi this year, I would tend to agree, but even back then Star Wars had no such competition. Sci-Fi wasn’t a thing like it is today. Had Episode 7 come out in 1986, 1992, 2003, you would be lauding it much more as definitive Sci-fi. The tide has risen.
Your first love is always seen through rose colored glasses. As your comparison illustrates, they’re different now, but they were NEVER what you remembered either. Your memories were influenced by your love for them.
I would say from a pure cold review of this film, it is far superior to all that came before it. More emotional resonance with the characters, more investment in what is happening.
Time and first loves are weird things.

also, people always think because the ships and space and lasers that Star Wars is sci fi. Star Wars isn't sci fi. I'm not sure why anyone would even expect Star Wars to be a better sci fi movie than something like interstellar. Which is exactly why every time I see someone compare Star Wars to Star Trek I think they're being foolish.

[Mupepe]

Great comment in his review:

I think that you temper expectations well, but we all suffer from giving the original 3 a lot more credit than they deserve. When you say Ep 7 isn’t the best Sci-Fi this year, I would tend to agree, but even back then Star Wars had no such competition. Sci-Fi wasn’t a thing like it is today. Had Episode 7 come out in 1986, 1992, 2003, you would be lauding it much more as definitive Sci-fi. The tide has risen.
Your first love is always seen through rose colored glasses. As your comparison illustrates, they’re different now, but they were NEVER what you remembered either. Your memories were influenced by your love for them.
I would say from a pure cold review of this film, it is far superior to all that came before it. More emotional resonance with the characters, more investment in what is happening.
Time and first loves are weird things.

also, people always think because the ships and space and lasers that Star Wars is sci fi. Star Wars isn't sci fi. I'm not sure why anyone would even expect Star Wars to be a better sci fi movie than something like interstellar. Which is exactly why every time I see someone compare Star Wars to Star Trek I think they're being foolish.

Completely agree with this

[Tasty]

Originally Poe Dameron was supposed to die but Abrams "figured it out" after Isaacs was cast.

Huh? Not in the book.

The book may have been written after the first draft where he was supposed to live.

[headwalk]

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/12/18/my-non-spoilery-review-of-the-force-awakens/

Scalzi, everyone's favorite Heinlein-channeler, has written a good piece on TFA. It encapsulates how it feels to be a lifetime star war stan and to have JJ deliver us from evil. To, possibly, a different evil.

using his analogy, the friend who came back could only relate to you by repeatedly bringing up things you both did years ago and couldn't go more than 30 seconds without getting distracted by their phone.

the only thing that makes it feel like a star wars film is that it's set in the star wars universe, to the extent that it has to keep telling you remember this? it's like star wars! to remind you.

[Mupepe]

I have to ask, what is missing that would make it feel like a star wars film?  As an outsider and not much of a fan of the originals it felt like one to me so I'm genuinely curious.

[Tasty]

also, people always think because the ships and space and lasers that Star Wars is sci fi. Star Wars isn't sci fi. I'm not sure why anyone would even expect Star Wars to be a better sci fi movie than something like interstellar. Which is exactly why every time I see someone compare Star Wars to Star Trek I think they're being foolish.

Star Wars has always been definitively science-fantasy. It's grouped under the larger "sci-fi" label for convenience but I don't think anyone would argue that it's anything like Trek.

[Human Snorenado]

Great comment in his review:

I think that you temper expectations well, but we all suffer from giving the original 3 a lot more credit than they deserve. When you say Ep 7 isn’t the best Sci-Fi this year, I would tend to agree, but even back then Star Wars had no such competition. Sci-Fi wasn’t a thing like it is today. Had Episode 7 come out in 1986, 1992, 2003, you would be lauding it much more as definitive Sci-fi. The tide has risen.
Your first love is always seen through rose colored glasses. As your comparison illustrates, they’re different now, but they were NEVER what you remembered either. Your memories were influenced by your love for them.
I would say from a pure cold review of this film, it is far superior to all that came before it. More emotional resonance with the characters, more investment in what is happening.
Time and first loves are weird things.

also, people always think because the ships and space and lasers that Star Wars is sci fi. Star Wars isn't sci fi. I'm not sure why anyone would even expect Star Wars to be a better sci fi movie than something like interstellar. Which is exactly why every time I see someone compare Star Wars to Star Trek I think they're being foolish.

Uhhhhhhh. No. You could make a very credible case for this movie being better than anything that came before... except Empire. ESB is still head and shoulders above this movie. Anyone that says otherwise is a fucktard.

[headwalk]

I have to ask, what is missing that would make it feel like a star wars film?  As an outsider and not much of a fan of the originals it felt like one to me so I'm genuinely curious.

tone, cinematography, pacing, character interaction, ambiance, editing.

it's a reboot rather than a sequel, albeit one that attempts to canonically sit in line as a sequel.

[Tasty]

I have to ask, what is missing that would make it feel like a star wars film?  As an outsider and not much of a fan of the originals it felt like one to me so I'm genuinely curious.

tone, cinematography, pacing, character interaction, ambiance, editing.

it's a reboot rather than a sequel, albeit one that attempts to canonically sit in line as a sequel.

Yeah, it's basically the Star Trek '09 of the franchise. Which isn't a bad thing, and at least JJ's sensibilities are more in-tune with SW than they were with Trek.

[headwalk]

Yeah, it's basically the Star Trek '09 of the franchise. Which isn't a bad thing, and at least JJ's sensibilities are more in-tune with SW than they were with Trek.

it's like if super 8 had ET in it and followed the same beats instead of turning into a monster movie.

i mean some people will love it. people who enjoy the disney/marvel ride i bet will be well into it. i'd kept my expectations in check all the way up until i saw the trailer, bought tickets for the opening night and dared to dream like a dumb idiot.

[TakingBackSunday]

I have to ask, what is missing that would make it feel like a star wars film?  As an outsider and not much of a fan of the originals it felt like one to me so I'm genuinely curious.

tone, cinematography, pacing, character interaction, ambiance, editing.

it's a reboot rather than a sequel, albeit one that attempts to canonically sit in line as a sequel.

its really easy to throw words like that out without providing any examples

personally I don't agree at all.  This movie felt so much more like an OT Star Wars movie than I think you give it credit for.  Cinematography?  Do you realize ANH is relatively...badly shot?

Character interaction?  We have possibly the best main character interactions of the year between Finn and Han, Finn and Poe, Rey and Ren.

I just don't agree, at all.  Movie was tits.

[Mods Help]

The force awakens has some of if not the best character interaction in the series.

A New Hope is really, really dated. I watched the despecialized version the other day and you have to be sniffing roach poison to think it is well shot and well edited.

You talk about how the new movie is this vapid thing when half of A New Hope is either spent on a space ship and blowing up storm troopers of trying to get out of a garbage compactor or a big, epic mission where they're trying to destroy a giant weapon of destruction.

A lot of your complaints are nostalgia goggles defined.

[Tasty]

ANH was also George Lucas's third movie, it's good to keep that in mind when assessing the cinematography and editing.

TBH I'm not sure a movie like ones in the OT could be made today. It'd be seen as too boring.

[Mods Help]

ANH was also George Lucas's third movie, it's good to keep that in mind when assessing the cinematography and editing.

TBH I'm not sure a movie like ones in the OT could be made today. It'd be seen as too boring.

The cinematography in TFA massacres that movie and a lot of Jedi as well. The shot where Rey slides down the sand hill, the shot of her eating at the AT-AT, the part where she puts the Rebel helmet on and looks wistfully at the sunset. The film has a lot of beautiful shots. The one Star Wars movie that is the exception to the rule and always been the exception is Empire.

[Tasty]

I haven't seen TFA yet but I don't doubt JJ's prowess. Pretty shots are pretty much his hallmark.

[Mods Help]

Great comment in his review:

I think that you temper expectations well, but we all suffer from giving the original 3 a lot more credit than they deserve. When you say Ep 7 isn’t the best Sci-Fi this year, I would tend to agree, but even back then Star Wars had no such competition. Sci-Fi wasn’t a thing like it is today. Had Episode 7 come out in 1986, 1992, 2003, you would be lauding it much more as definitive Sci-fi. The tide has risen.
Your first love is always seen through rose colored glasses. As your comparison illustrates, they’re different now, but they were NEVER what you remembered either. Your memories were influenced by your love for them.
I would say from a pure cold review of this film, it is far superior to all that came before it. More emotional resonance with the characters, more investment in what is happening.
Time and first loves are weird things.

also, people always think because the ships and space and lasers that Star Wars is sci fi. Star Wars isn't sci fi. I'm not sure why anyone would even expect Star Wars to be a better sci fi movie than something like interstellar. Which is exactly why every time I see someone compare Star Wars to Star Trek I think they're being foolish.

Uhhhhhhh. No. You could make a very credible case for this movie being better than anything that came before... except Empire. ESB is still head and shoulders above this movie. Anyone that says otherwise is a fucktard.

Empire has been the exception. The problem is people think Empire = Star Wars.

[Stoney Mason]

A New Hope is really, really dated. I watched the despecialized version the other day and you have to be sniffing roach poison to think it is well shot and well edited.

I haven't seen the new movie and I don't have a horse on that race but I'll just say this statement imo is absurdly silly. And I can categorically say I'm not speaking from nostalgia goggles since I didn't see the movie until way in my adulthood.

I'm not sure why people feel like they have to shit on something to uplift another thing. Stick to uplifting the thing you like.

The concept of "dated" is pretty meaningless. The popular concept of how to film a movie changes over time. Everything dates. In 40 years the Force Awakens will be "dated".

[Mods Help]

I haven't seen TFA yet but I don't doubt JJ's prowess. Pretty shots are pretty much his hallmark.

Yeah, it's basically the Star Trek '09 of the franchise. Which isn't a bad thing, and at least JJ's sensibilities are more in-tune with SW than they were with Trek.

[headwalk]

its really easy to throw words like that out without providing any examples

personally I don't agree at all.  This movie felt so much more like an OT Star Wars movie than I think you give it credit for.  Cinematography?  Do you realize ANH is relatively...badly shot?

Character interaction?  We have possibly the best main character interactions of the year between Finn and Han, Finn and Poe, Rey and Ren.

I just don't agree, at all.  Movie was tits.

"i like this in TFA more" doesn't mean it's similar. it wasn't. you might've enjoyed the character interactions, but they were much closer to the avengers than empire strikes back. you might've enjoyed the cinematography, but it was much closer to the star trek reboot than empire strikes back.

maybe you think the natural scene sitting camerawork of empire is boring, maybe you think that the frequent periods of downtime, transition and reflection slowed the film down. you can think all of those things, but doesn't mean that if you jettison them than the new film will be more star wars.

if you really adore TFA, the chances are you never wanted a new star wars film in the first place. you wanted a very modern movie typical of the disney mould dressed in star wars clothes.

[Mods Help]

A New Hope is really, really dated. I watched the despecialized version the other day and you have to be sniffing roach poison to think it is well shot and well edited.

I haven't seen the new movie and I don't have a horse on that race but I'll just say this statement imo is absurdly silly. And I can categorically say I'm not speaking from nostalgia goggles since I didn't see the movie until way in my adulthood.

I'm not sure why people feel like they have to shit on something to uplift another thing. Stick to uplifting the thing you like.

I'm not shitting on anything. I fucking love that movie.

But it's really, really hard to take a fanbase seriously that when many of their complaints of the new one are totally in movies they put on a pedastal. A lot of them have weird ideas on what Star Wars even is. They think it's some enlightening space movie when it was only ever an epic space adventure. There's nothing wrong with that, but it feels like a giant portion of Star Wars attach the series to a label or something that it never really was and I think that colors a lot of their impressions of the new film. A lot them are also perfectly fine with comparing Empire to the new movie, and they're definitely willing to say it's inferior to the others even in areas it is objectively better in, such as editing and cinematography. I love the original trilogy to pieces, but arguing that the new film lacks ambience or cinematography when defending the original Star Wars trilogy is hilarious to me.

I would love for Headwalk to tell us why and how The Force Awakens has worse cinematography and editing than A New Hope or even Jedi. If anything, it's about the same in some ways.

[Mods Help]

I also think that in general Empire Strikes Back is a blight on the franchise. Not even ANH and ROTJ are ESB. Why is the movie not being on par with ESB mean it's a bad movie? A lot of fans say Jedi is an awful movie purely because it isn't as good as Empire. It's like Empire is the victim of its own awesomeness and I think colors a large majority of the fanbase. Empire is my favorite and IMO the best Star Wars, but I don't understand why a Star Wars movie has to be Empire to be a good Star Wars movie. Jedi could have been just as good as Empire and people wouldn't have been satisfied. Now people like Headwalk are willing to compare to the first movie in the trilogy to Empire.

I love that movie but the way the fanbase puts that film on a pedestal to the point where they can't enjoy a pretty good entry in the series because "it's more Avengers than Empire" is

[Stoney Mason]

Like I said, I haven't seen the new movie so I can't speak to it.

It's just a pet peeve of mine when I feel like something that has stood the test of time is called dated so easily. The new movie may have revolutionary and stunning cinematography for all I know.

The past is important. It's neither a sacred cow nor something to bludgeon anything new. It's something to inform the conversation.

[headwalk]

I'm not shitting on anything. I fucking love that movie.

But it's really, really hard to take a fanbase seriously that when many of their complaints of the new one are totally in movies they put on a pedastal. A lot of them have weird ideas on what Star Wars even is. They think it's some enlightening space movie when it was only ever an epic space adventure. There's nothing wrong with that, but it feels like a giant portion of Star Wars attach the series to a label or something that it never really was and I think that colors a lot of their impressions of the new film. A lot them are also perfectly fine with comparing Empire to the new movie, and they're definitely willing to say it's inferior to the others even in areas it is objectively better in, such as editing and cinematography. I love the original trilogy to pieces, but arguing that the new film lacks ambience or cinematography when defending the original Star Wars trilogy is hilarious to me.

I would love for Headwalk to tell us why and how The Force Awakens has worse cinematography and editing than A New Hope or even Jedi. If anything, it's about the same in some ways.

pretty disturbing to see people use word for word the same defence that people rolled out for the prequels.

it doesn't necessarily have worse cinematography or editing than ANH or jedi, it's from an entirely different galaxy of film making. like if chris nolan made a soft reboot of 2001 a space odyssey.

[TakingBackSunday]

TFA is awesome, and I will leave this thread now

[Stoney Mason]

TFA is awesome, and I will leave this thread now

From what I've seen most of the thread seems to agree. A dissenting opinion isn't that big a deal.

[Human Snorenado]

Here's the thing: you aren't getting movies from the late 70's/early 80's made anymore. If that's the sort of thing you like and enjoy, don't watch big budget movies today, because you will be unsatisfied.

All things considered, TFA is about as good as it's going to get for a Disney Star War movie. Either enjoy it for what it is or don't watch it. You sound kind of like the No Mutants Allowed fanboys crying that a game THE EXACT SAME AS FALLOUT 1 OR 2 CAN'T BE MADE ANYMORE.

[Mupepe]

This is getting heated. Shields up, sabers on. Vwom. Vwoooooom. Vwom vwom vwom.

[Mods Help]

Again, why in the WORLD would you even EXPECT The Force Awakens to be on par with Empire? If you didn't go in with that expectation you wouldn't be making that comparison.

And saying that the arguments are the same as defenses for the prequels?

This is why I think some Star Wars fans are victims of their own expectations. I read something today where a dude argued that ROTJ  sucked because Ewok's exist and we didn't get a Wookie planet in Jedi, which is what he expected. And by his argument, Jedi sucks because of that.

Star Wars fan diehards remind me of Final Fantasy fans. "THIS ONE ISN'T FANTASY, FINAL FANTASY IS ONLY FANTASY. CARS  AND SPACE SHIPS SHOULD NOT EXIST IN FINAL FANTASY."

[Mods Help]

Here's the thing: you aren't getting movies from the late 70's/early 80's made anymore. If that's the sort of thing you like and enjoy, don't watch big budget movies today, because you will be unsatisfied.

All things considered, TFA is about as good as it's going to get for a Disney Star War movie. Either enjoy it for what it is or don't watch it. You sound kind of like the No Mutants Allowed fanboys crying that a game THE EXACT SAME AS FALLOUT 1 OR 2 CAN'T BE MADE ANYMORE.

I already knew that I wouldn't get what *I* like about Fallout with 4 and was perfectly satisfied with NV. I didn't buy 4 and won't be buying 4. If you are going to place your own expectations on a product, know what those expectations are, and if you think the product won't be what you're hoping for, don't purchase it. Unfortunately, nerds have a tendency to just throw away money just because. "I know I'm not going to like it but it's _____" is quite common. I don't see how hard this is. But thinking JJ Abrams is capable of making an ESB caliber movie?

[Human Snorenado]

I was on a podcast that talked about TFA yesterday, and at the end we all agreed that nerds are the worst, because of a lack of self-control and stupid expectations. "This stupid cartoon about robot cars that I liked in the 80's should make a great movie, even though a no talent hack is directing it. I'll go see it 4 times because reasons."

[Mods Help]

I was on a podcast that talked about TFA yesterday, and at the end we all agreed that nerds are the worst, because of a lack of self-control and stupid expectations. "This stupid cartoon about robot cars that I liked in the 80's should make a great movie, even though a no talent hack is directing it. I'll go see it 4 times because reasons."

"I don't like WWE programming, but I'm going to keep watching WWE programming even though there's viable alternatives because I watch Raw out of pure habit." 

Nerds are weird. Why are we so weird?

[headwalk]

i don't know, it think it's quite a nerd trait for people to get bent out of shape because other people didn't think their giant new hype drop was anything special and saying "it's as great as it can be and either enjoy it or don't watch it" is a pretty wrist quiveringly awful statement and one straight out of an uncharted review thread.

like, it's alright. it's competent and digestible but ultimately heartless. we all should have expected that all along really but that doesn't mean i can't talk about it.

[Human Snorenado]

I think "heartless" is a bit much. I found Finn and Rey engaging characters that I cared about, and want to know more about their past and future.

You didn't. YMMV. But don't tell us we're all morons for feeling that way.

[Mods Help]

Headwalk, this is the first movie I've seen in a long time where I actually give a shit about what happens next. Most serialized movies these days, I'm like "alright, that was a good movie, see you in two years I guess", but not with TFA. I was really, really absorbed into the story of Rey, Kylo Ren, and Finn, and in some ways Poe. The fate of Luke;etc all helped feed into the movie and give it a lot of interesting questions about where the films are going to go.

i really, really like Finn, Kylo Ren, and Rey. You said that the movie was about shoving as much crap to remind you this is Star Wars, but the movie was ultimately about a new generation as much as it was an old generation, and I can't wait to see where it all goes. I never got that once with the prequel trilogy, and calling the character interaction "heartless" seems a bit much.

"What about that ship?"
"That ship is garbage!"
*the ship they're running to gets destroyed*
"The garbage will do!"

[headwalk]

You didn't. YMMV. But don't tell us we're all morons for feeling that way.

again, i'm not sure where i called anyone a moron.

for all your "these nerds" accusations, you seem to take very personal offence to criticism of a film you enjoyed.

[Mods Help]

You didn't. YMMV. But don't tell us we're all morons for feeling that way.

again, i'm not sure where i called anyone a moron.

for all your "these nerds" accusations, you seem to take very personal offence to criticism of a film you enjoyed.

The problem isn't criticism. The problem are your expectations combined with criticism without a shroud of personal context. You mentioned before that the cinematography is poor compared to the original trilogy, and when compounded with a rebuttal that the cinematography is pretty fucking solid (as it's one of JJ's positive points) you neglected to personally explain why the cinematography of the original trilogy was so good.

You compared the movie to Avengers when Avengers is a pretty damn good movie, and also has a somewhat similar structure to the first Star Wars movie. You said it's more Avengers than Empire Strikes Back when no one with any sound rationale would have gone into this movie comparing it to Empire to begin with.

Both of which factor into the "nerd" thing I initially brought up that Creepy expounded upon. Many nerds are more than willing to critique products they purchase, but are very rarely willing to critique their own expectations of that product is or should be. Comparing TFA to ESB fits that category of "nerd expectations".

[headwalk]

i really, really like Finn, Kylo Ren, and Rey. You said that the movie was about shoving as much crap to remind you this is Star Wars, but the movie was ultimately about a new generation as much as it was an old generation, and I can't wait to see where it all goes. I never got that once with the prequel trilogy, and calling the character interaction "heartless" seems a bit much.

yeah, i'm not sure heartless is the right word, maybe calculated is better. like, this doesn't feel like a story anyone is burning to tell. i suppose with the genus being "we want to make more star wars films" and it being a committee driven process, it was always going to be hard to escape from.

i'm not angry about any of this. it's been interesting to see what a modern star wars film would look like given the current climate of blockbuster cinema and the value of the brand and in that i think it's a decent milestone of the times.

[Rufus]

You didn't. YMMV. But don't tell us we're all morons for feeling that way.

again, i'm not sure where i called anyone a moron.

for all your "these nerds" accusations, you seem to take very personal offence to criticism of a film you enjoyed.

Disassociate yourself from the things you like, folks. Life's nicer that way.

[Mods Help]

Okay then. Honestly, I haven't seen or experienced any Star Wars story, besides the original, that was "burning to be told". Not even games like KOTOR. Again, I think this factors into expectations. Was even the original trilogy burning to be told? I mean, in hindsight we think it is but it's because we grew up with them, and when you're young you have a larger inclination towards stories like Star Wars. I mean, originally, ANH was just Star Wars and there were no plans for a sequel, much less a trilogy. I think this also factors possibly into age. I'm not sure how old you are, or when you got into Star Wars, but I got into them with the Special Editions when they were in theaters in 1997. That was my introduction to Star Wars and sealed my love for space opera. But then I was an 11 year old kid, so of course Star Wars was a story "burning to be told". I thought Final Fantasy VII, which was released later in the year, was the best story I ever experienced. I was a fucking kid, and that's how kids think. It also helps that, again, depending on how old you are, all of the original trilogy were already out when you were a kid. We had the luxury of watching them back to back with ease and didn't have to wait two-three years for new entries. When the Special Editions came out, they would release one movie in the trilogy a month in theaters for a limited time only. Things are going to feel like they have a reason to be told when you get to watch the entire series in a three month time span, or if you had them on VHS or Laserdisc, in the span of a day.

In reality, the only reasoning these movies exist and have ever existed is to show a story of a youth with potential to defeat the dark big bad, which is all the justification they've ever really needed to exist.

[headwalk]

The problem isn't criticism. The problem are your expectations combined with criticism without a shroud of personal context. You mentioned before that the cinematography is poor compared to the original trilogy, and when compounded with a rebuttal that the cinematography is pretty fucking solid (as it's one of JJ's positive points) you neglected to personally explain why the cinematography of the original trilogy was so good.

when did i say the cinematography was poor, or did you just read into that because i said it's completely different from the originals?

think about the difference in how a mendes/deakins bond film is shot and a standard JJ film. i'm not going to argue one is better than the other, they're both big blockbuster action films, but the patience and use of space in the former is much closer to the originals than the dynamic 3D roaming lens flare spectacular of the latter. you might argue that the former would be totally shit for a space fantasy yarn in 2015 and would kill the action, and i'm sure disney would agree.

the opposite end would be lucas' prequels where it was practically a teleplay.

[Mods Help]

The problem isn't criticism. The problem are your expectations combined with criticism without a shroud of personal context. You mentioned before that the cinematography is poor compared to the original trilogy, and when compounded with a rebuttal that the cinematography is pretty fucking solid (as it's one of JJ's positive points) you neglected to personally explain why the cinematography of the original trilogy was so good.

when did i say the cinematography was poor, or did you just read into that because i said it's completely different from the originals?

think about the difference in how a mendes/deakins bond film is shot and a standard JJ film. i'm not going to argue one is better than the other, but the patience and use of space in the former is much closer to the orignals than the dynamic 3D roaming lens flare spectacular of the latter. you might argue that the former would be totally shit for a space fantasy yarn and would kill the action, and i'm sure disney would agree.

the opposite end would be lucas' prequels where it was practically a teleplay.

Isn't TFA pretty lens flare-less?

I'm not sure why the cinematography being similar to the originals is even important. To me, what matters is whether or not it's good. And it was pretty to look at. I think what's more important here is the style of the films - Akira Kurosawa esque wipe transitions, showing story through visuals;etc - than pure cinematography and direction. After all, there's a stark difference in direction and cinematography going from ANH to ESB. Just like there will be a large difference between TFA and the Episode 8.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Headwalk, okay you didn't like the movie. We get it. Now bugger right on out of this thread if it's going to consist of you making 30 fucking posts about it.

[headwalk]

Headwalk, okay you didn't like the movie. We get it. Now bugger right on out of this thread if it's going to consist of you making 30 fucking posts about it.

i'm having a conversation mate.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Headwalk, okay you didn't like the movie. We get it. Now bugger right on out of this thread if it's going to consist of you making 30 fucking posts about it.

i'm having a conversation mate.

No you're not. You're not even listening to anybody else.

[headwalk]

No you're not. You're not even listening to anybody else.

what are you talking about?

[Stoney Mason]

Headwalk made a few posts that didn't agree with everybody. We don't always have to dogpile on every opinion in a movie thread.

It doesn't have to be the focus for however long people want to talk about the movie.

[Tasty]

None of headwalk's posts seem egregious or inflammatory, y'all overreacting.

[Mods Help]

I'm perfectly fine having this convo with Headwalk. I just genuinely want to understand!

Headwalk, what say you about my last post?!

You also didn't address this:

Okay then. Honestly, I haven't seen or experienced any Star Wars story, besides the original, that was "burning to be told". Not even games like KOTOR. Again, I think this factors into expectations. Was even the original trilogy burning to be told? I mean, in hindsight we think it is but it's because we grew up with them, and when you're young you have a larger inclination towards stories like Star Wars. I mean, originally, ANH was just Star Wars and there were no plans for a sequel, much less a trilogy. I think this also factors possibly into age. I'm not sure how old you are, or when you got into Star Wars, but I got into them with the Special Editions when they were in theaters in 1997. That was my introduction to Star Wars and sealed my love for space opera. But then I was an 11 year old kid, so of course Star Wars was a story "burning to be told". I thought Final Fantasy VII, which was released later in the year, was the best story I ever experienced. I was a fucking kid, and that's how kids think. It also helps that, again, depending on how old you are, all of the original trilogy were already out when you were a kid. We had the luxury of watching them back to back with ease and didn't have to wait two-three years for new entries. When the Special Editions came out, they would release one movie in the trilogy a month in theaters for a limited time only. Things are going to feel like they have a reason to be told when you get to watch the entire series in a three month time span, or if you had them on VHS or Laserdisc, in the span of a day.

In reality, the only reasoning these movies exist and have ever existed is to show a story of a youth with potential to defeat the dark big bad, which is all the justification they've ever really needed to exist.

[naff]

Rewatched ROTJ then TFA back to back. Was so zzzzzz by the end of ROTJ, but TFA had me hype as hell. The fan service was off the chart, I have never watched a film that broke the 4th wall so consistently with its nods. I always expect a pastiche from  JJ, but I didn't expect it to ape ANH in such a self aware, humorous fashion.  Great reboot, JJ nailed it, looking forward to star wars for the rest of my life :p

[Mods Help]

I'm telling you guys. Watch the originals then watch TFA.

[chronovore]

ANH was also George Lucas's third movie, it's good to keep that in mind when assessing the cinematography and editing.

TBH I'm not sure a movie like ones in the OT could be made today. It'd be seen as too boring.

Yeah, my son has had very little interest in watching them, though he had little trouble with Ep. I and II.