It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!

[thehunter116]

Yeah but why are you making shit up about TLJ being written before TFA

I read in one of the articles how they had the story beats written up; you know who dies and the basics of what happen in the trilogy. The details the directors come in and fill.

Like what they're doing with the MCU now (Post Ike) instead of what they did before controlling every little bit.

[thehunter116]

Yeah but why are you making shit up about TLJ being written before TFA

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Continue-Long-Episode-IX-According-Disney-108587.html

They had planned the first 5 movies out in advance. Each to varying degrees; I'll try and find an article that talks about the story treatments.

[thehunter116]

3. Rose and Finn. I'll admit this one is the one that has the flaws; the scene could have been shortened and Finn did get shafted a bit however I don't think his character was destroyed or de-legitimized. The Casino arc was a bit of a mess but it played into the theme of failure. Yes DJ just being there was odd but his character did help to highlight some backstory on where the FO got it's money and weapons as did Canto Bight. As for Rose I do think she was the weakest character in the story but her offenses are hardly deal breaking. A single kiss is nothing compared to this
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
No. No it is not.

On a separate note, why does this movies defenders keep bringing up prequel trilogy to prove their points. They just make it seem even more prequel tier.

To expound and build a case:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7mzmtf/disney_is_ruining_star_wars_with_its_forced_humour/

Here's an example of what you're doing. Read the comments. That's what you sound like.

Almost every defender of this movie defends it in such a comical, fanboyish manner to the point where they assume all of who don't like don't because we're comic book boy-ing out about "character assassination" more than our actual legitimate criticisms. Then when they do target one of our arguments, such as the forced comedy, they pull like the shit Hunter or this dork at reddit did.

Comically embarrassing.

Point out that the joke in the beginning is actually not forced and fits the characters?

[Himu]

Emotional?

[Mandark]

Emotional?

 

[TVC15]

Emotional?

[Trent Dole]

This isn't high fucking art, it's a dumb popcorn franchise that's made to sell kids toys and manchildren nostalgia, and toys.

[BlueTsunami]

I almost cried when Rose forced her kiss on Finn cause it reminded me of that one time I didnt want to be in that relationship

[seagrams hotsauce]

Yeah but why are you making shit up about TLJ being written before TFA

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Continue-Long-Episode-IX-According-Disney-108587.html

They had planned the first 5 movies out in advance. Each to varying degrees; I'll try and find an article that talks about the story treatments.

That literally says nothing about having anything planned out story wise, they just say that the movies are confirmed to exist. Like how did you extrapolate anything there to mean they wrote TLJ first. How does that make any sense whatsoever

[Mandark]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/star-wars-the-last-jedi-cover-portfolio

What the story group does not do, Hart said, is impose plot-point mandates on the filmmakers. Johnson told me he was surprised at how much leeway he was given to cook up the action of Episode VIII from scratch. “The pre-set was Episode VII, and that was kind of it,” he said. If anything, Johnson wanted more give-and-take with the Lucasfilm team, so he moved up to San Francisco for about six weeks during his writing process, taking an office two doors down from Hart’s and meeting with the full group twice a week.

[Baiano19]

Just found out there is a r/sequelmemes

It's like poetry... It rhymes.

[chronovore]

Watched The Last Jedi again today. Enjoyed it even more than the first time. Luke whining about his fate as a Jedi Master is in line with every other whining Luke in the canon. Rey is awesome. Kylo is a great villain. Muppet Yoda is best Yoda.

Still not a fan of the Canto Bight sequence. It really is nothing but green screen fuckery. But I figured out a way to work in Lando: he should’ve been the gambler who Maz recommended, with the red flower boutonniere. It would have been a fantastic cameo, and perfectly in character.

[thehunter116]

Yeah but why are you making shit up about TLJ being written before TFA

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Continue-Long-Episode-IX-According-Disney-108587.html

They had planned the first 5 movies out in advance. Each to varying degrees; I'll try and find an article that talks about the story treatments.

That literally says nothing about having anything planned out story wise, they just say that the movies are confirmed to exist. Like how did you extrapolate anything there to mean they wrote TLJ first. How does that make any sense whatsoever

It wasn't that article dude, I said I'd hunt down the other one talking about the story treatments.

[Tasty]

Shut the fuck up hunter you whore

[thehunter116]

Shut the fuck up hunter you whore

Eat a dick. 

[chronovore]

Shut the fuck up hunter you whore

Eat a dick. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[etiolate]

btw

The reason Yoda playing rube works and the momma joke doesn't is not because of comedy but anachronism. Nobody is on hold for your mom in the SW universe. That's not a thing in that world. It's obviously coming from our world and comes off as awkward to jarring. Using humor to distract isn't the issue. It was that the joke was written for our world and not a highly advanced intergalactic universe.

[thehunter116]

btw

The reason Yoda playing rube works and the momma joke doesn't is not because of comedy but anachronism. Nobody is on hold for your mom in the SW universe. That's not a thing in that world. It's obviously coming from our world and comes off as awkward to jarring. Using humor to distract isn't the issue. It was that the joke was written for our world and not a highly advanced intergalactic universe.

Also that argument doesn't work since they use swears like hell. Why would a galaxy full of species use the afterlife of our religion as a swear?

[Stoney Mason]

On a side note, I'm slowly making my way through the audiobook versions of these.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Thrawn_Trilogy

I've never been remotely interested in Star Wars EU stuff but the annual release schedule of these star war films does make me more interested in Star Wars in general for about a month. Generally, I satiate that hunger by watching various prequel fan edit versions of the films like an insane person but this year decided to try something different instead. I guess, I'll post my thoughts on them as I finish each book.

[Mandark]

I remember those books being a much more coherent, better thought-out approach to constructing a post-ROTJ scenario than the current movies.

Kind of want to go back and read them, but it's probably better to keep my rose-colored view of them from when I was 13.

[thehunter116]

I remember those books being a much more coherent, better thought-out approach to constructing a post-ROTJ scenario than the current movies.

Kind of want to go back and read them, but it's probably better to keep my rose-colored view of them from when I was 13.

Nah Timothy Zahn is the GOAT.

[Human Snorenado]

I remember those books being a much more coherent, better thought-out approach to constructing a post-ROTJ scenario than the current movies.

Kind of want to go back and read them, but it's probably better to keep my rose-colored view of them from when I was 13.

They are but the issue is- they pick up pretty much right after RotJ. We've got the 30 year gap in the new trilogy. They just chose to fill it with kinda dumb shit, and in typical "JJ Abrams was involved with this project" fashion a bunch of half answered questions.

[thehunter116]

I remember those books being a much more coherent, better thought-out approach to constructing a post-ROTJ scenario than the current movies.

Kind of want to go back and read them, but it's probably better to keep my rose-colored view of them from when I was 13.

They are but the issue is- they pick up pretty much right after RotJ. We've got the 30 year gap in the new trilogy. They just chose to fill it with kinda dumb shit, and in typical "JJ Abrams was involved with this project" fashion a bunch of half answered questions.

This I do legit wish they hadn't done.

So many unanswered questions.

[chronovore]

https://twitter.com/PrequelMemesBot/status/947851130859675648

[Atramental]

"It's like poetry. It rhymes."   

[chronovore]

(Image removed from quote.)

"It's like poetry. It rhymes."   

Yeah, except TLJ made me shiver with frisson, and Ep. III just made me shiver.

[Brehvolution]

The part near the end

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Where the lady turned the rebel ship around to jump to hyperspace through that big ass first order ship. When the ship went through, it went silent, a kid in the theater said "Boom!" and half the place was laughing through the silent part. I'm sure the kid didn't think it would go silent during that part.

[close]

The audio was super loud for the movie or I just haven't been to a movie in a long time.

[I'm a Puppy!]

I have to agree with Snore. A+ for vision C- or worse for execution.

I really respect that they decided to burn all the old star wars stuff down so they could be masters of their own fate and not be tied to telling the same George Lucas story with the same George Lucas characters. Honestly, if Disney had given me the helm on episode 8, I would've largely done the same thing .Burn it all down and start something new. In that sense, I can really respect the balls on Disney to actually try it, since you know the fanboys are going to be angry that whatever comes next, isn't the same star wars story with the same star wars characters and the same "fill out the mad lib" type story telling that TFA was. That's not to say that I didn't enjoy TFA, I really did (I enjoyed it way more than TLJ) but it was what was just a rehash of the original trilogy. And that was fine. To revive the series you need that, now that it's done you need to set it up for the next iteration and make it your own.  Which is what I see they were trying to do.

They tried to do WAY too much. In their rush to burn it all down/tie up everything nice and neat for the next set of movies they made some ridiculous missteps:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

- Rey's parents? I know you wanna get away from the "uncertain parentage trope" but to keep bringing it up over and over and then to be like "Nope. It's a big nothing burger. Psych!" That was insanely lame
- Finn and Captain Phasma. that was stupid. They could have left that for later to give it the time it deserved. This just felt like "Oh yeah, we need to get that resolved. So let's do this cheesy, forced fight that will be really dumb cause we have like 3 or 4 minutes to spend on it." They should have left it alone
- Leia coming back to life? That was laugh out loud ridiculous. There was really no need for her to stay alive. She didn't contribute anything else to the story other than "She's Leia". They should have left her dead. And now that Carrie Fisher is dead, they REALLY should have left her dead
- I get what they were doing with the Fin and Rose thing, and I largely thing it was a good idea. But their little escapade that took so long and was completely ineffectual to the story. You could have largely cut that whole arc out and the movie would have been the same.  There were other ways to do accomplish Fin's growth and the introduction of Rose
- They went too hard for the Marvel-esque "smart ass" thing and made the first order look dumb instead of something to be afraid of. Marvel does it because they usually only pull it off when the good guys are winning. But the audience needs to feel like the bad guy is scary and starting it off with the bad guys acting like bumbling idiots does not do that.
- Oh and that stupid purple hair admiral thing was really horribly executed. The only real reason she wouldn't take poe aside and tell him the plan would be if she though the was a spy, which it's obvious that she didn't. Further, if in the end she was just going to "allah ackbar" the thing. She could have done that from one of the ships that were going to be destroyed anyway, like the medical cruiser or a supply ship. That whole things was ridiculous.
- Further, if the first order can track through light space, why bother following them so closely.

[close]

That all being said beyond burning it all down, they did do a few other things right

spoiler (click to show/hide)

- I sorta liked emo Luke. I know people feel its uncharacteristic. But I think the reaction was understandable. I do think him trying to kill Kylo is a step too far, but the rest of it I get. Though the whole "LOL JK, Rey is the next Jedi." at the end was too much.
- Some great shots. Leia looking out of the snow field. The shot looking down Kylo's light sabre. Some good stuff there
- Kylo having played Snoke and everybody is a pretty good move as it sets up a good villain and gets rid of the whole "OMG, I R so conflicted" Vader crap.  Let's just hope they don't fuck it up.

[close]

All in all, I dig the vision but the execution was so bad that it puts TLJ just above the prequels for me in terms of quality. I sorta view the franchise as 4-7 as one set (7 was just a retelling of 4-6 anyway) and TLJ and prequels as another. That being said, that's not great company for TLJ to be in.

[Momo]

[thehunter116]

I have to agree with Snore. A+ for vision C- or worse for execution.

I really respect that they decided to burn all the old star wars stuff down so they could be masters of their own fate and not be tied to telling the same George Lucas story with the same George Lucas characters. Honestly, if Disney had given me the helm on episode 8, I would've largely done the same thing .Burn it all down and start something new. In that sense, I can really respect the balls on Disney to actually try it, since you know the fanboys are going to be angry that whatever comes next, isn't the same star wars story with the same star wars characters and the same "fill out the mad lib" type story telling that TFA was. That's not to say that I didn't enjoy TFA, I really did (I enjoyed it way more than TLJ) but it was what was just a rehash of the original trilogy. And that was fine. To revive the series you need that, now that it's done you need to set it up for the next iteration and make it your own.  Which is what I see they were trying to do.

They tried to do WAY too much. In their rush to burn it all down/tie up everything nice and neat for the next set of movies they made some ridiculous missteps:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

- Rey's parents? I know you wanna get away from the "uncertain parentage trope" but to keep bringing it up over and over and then to be like "Nope. It's a big nothing burger. Psych!" That was insanely lame
- Finn and Captain Phasma. that was stupid. They could have left that for later to give it the time it deserved. This just felt like "Oh yeah, we need to get that resolved. So let's do this cheesy, forced fight that will be really dumb cause we have like 3 or 4 minutes to spend on it." They should have left it alone
- Leia coming back to life? That was laugh out loud ridiculous. There was really no need for her to stay alive. She didn't contribute anything else to the story other than "She's Leia". They should have left her dead. And now that Carrie Fisher is dead, they REALLY should have left her dead
- I get what they were doing with the Fin and Rose thing, and I largely thing it was a good idea. But their little escapade that took so long and was completely ineffectual to the story. You could have largely cut that whole arc out and the movie would have been the same.  There were other ways to do accomplish Fin's growth and the introduction of Rose
- They went too hard for the Marvel-esque "smart ass" thing and made the first order look dumb instead of something to be afraid of. Marvel does it because they usually only pull it off when the good guys are winning. But the audience needs to feel like the bad guy is scary and starting it off with the bad guys acting like bumbling idiots does not do that.
- Oh and that stupid purple hair admiral thing was really horribly executed. The only real reason she wouldn't take poe aside and tell him the plan would be if she though the was a spy, which it's obvious that she didn't. Further, if in the end she was just going to "allah ackbar" the thing. She could have done that from one of the ships that were going to be destroyed anyway, like the medical cruiser or a supply ship. That whole things was ridiculous.
- Further, if the first order can track through light space, why bother following them so closely.

[close]

That all being said beyond burning it all down, they did do a few other things right

spoiler (click to show/hide)

- I sorta liked emo Luke. I know people feel its uncharacteristic. But I think the reaction was understandable. I do think him trying to kill Kylo is a step too far, but the rest of it I get. Though the whole "LOL JK, Rey is the next Jedi." at the end was too much.
- Some great shots. Leia looking out of the snow field. The shot looking down Kylo's light sabre. Some good stuff there
- Kylo having played Snoke and everybody is a pretty good move as it sets up a good villain and gets rid of the whole "OMG, I R so conflicted" Vader crap.  Let's just hope they don't fuck it up.

[close]

All in all, I dig the vision but the execution was so bad that it puts TLJ just above the prequels for me in terms of quality. I sorta view the franchise as 4-7 as one set (7 was just a retelling of 4-6 anyway) and TLJ and prequels as another. That being said, that's not great company for TLJ to be in.

I can see an argument for RotS tier execution...but not AotC or TPM. Those had terrible delivery and execution.

[agrajag]

I haven't seen it again, but after letting the dust settle I am of the same opinion as before. It is kind of a messy film, but I liked it and found it more interesting than TFA.

[Great Rumbler]

The worst thing about TLJ is all the people crawling out of the shadows to defend the Prequel Trilogy.

[agrajag]

The worst thing about TLJ is all the people crawling out of the shadows to defend the Prequel Trilogy.

It is indefensible.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

TPM and RotS have some cool parts though

[close]

[Joe Molotov]

The worst thing about TLJ is all the people crawling out of the shadows to defend the Prequel Trilogy.

It is indefensible.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

TPM and RotS have some cool parts though

[close]

TPM, AOTC, ROTS, let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.

[paprikastaude]

The worst thing about TLJ is all the people crawling out of the shadows to defend the Prequel Trilogy.

I've noticed there was an overwhelming amount of times when people that were criticizing episode 7 sooner or later started some argumentation with "you see, at least the prequels..." and me always thinking "get out"

[thehunter116]

In defense of the prequels within themselves, how anyone puts AotC ahead of either of the other two is beyond me.

A boring shitty romance/political drama with some battle droids and light-sabers thrown in.

[Brehvolution]

[chronovore]

In defense of the prequels within themselves, how anyone puts AotC ahead of either of the other two is beyond me.

A boring shitty romance/political drama with some battle droids and light-sabers thrown in.

Not only that, but they were bullshit kung-fu swordfights, not the swashbuckling duels that were emulated in the original trilogy. GL claimed, "Oh, I'd always wanted it to be this way," but the truth is it was just a new thing that caught his fancy. 

[Great Rumbler]

CGI kung-fu laser sword fighting with Yoda and Palpatine.

[chronovore]

CGI kung-fu laser sword fighting with Yoda and Palpatine.

Yeah, I hated everything about whirling-dervish CGI Yoda, spazzing and spinning around the battle with Count Dooku. Then again, I also disliked the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin on Mustafar or whatever the lava planet was called. JEDI MASTER FIGHT - why the hell does lava have to be involved. Worse than that, lava is just set-dressing in that fight; it's not even a strategic consideration until homeboy gets paraplegicized and slides backward into it.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Shut the fuck up hunter you whore

Eat a dick. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

thats exactly how i think prison life would be

[benjipwns]

the original trilogy ones are even funnier than the prequels in this too

[benjipwns]

On a side note, I'm slowly making my way through the audiobook versions of these.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Thrawn_Trilogy

I've never been remotely interested in Star Wars EU stuff but the annual release schedule of these star war films does make me more interested in Star Wars in general for about a month. Generally, I satiate that hunger by watching various prequel fan edit versions of the films like an insane person but this year decided to try something different instead. I guess, I'll post my thoughts on them as I finish each book.

Having enjoyed your recent revisiting the Trek films even if I didn't comment much on it, I look forward to this.

A few weeks back I mumbled some gibberish about this trilogy in comparison to the new Abramsverse Wars films based off 15-20 year old memories of Thrawn. I definitely don't have the Wars canon seared into my mind like Trek. I'll see if I can dig it up, there are maybe mild spoilers. But you can just ignore it until you finish, or ignore it all together.

edit: http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=42590.msg2354023#msg2354023

The reason the Thrawn Trilogy was/is so praised was not that it's brilliantly written, it's not significantly better than most licensed novels of the era, and even as "Star Wars" it's a poor sequel to Jedi as Lucas hadn't yet actually decided all that shit about how the force works or what Luke's end goal was/the state of the Sith/etc. It's that it took the universe status, and the character status, in the wake of Jedi, and built logically off of it. The Empire had not suddenly collapsed, it was just heavily weakened, the Rebels weren't victors, most of the galaxy was taking the advantage of being freed to be Non-Aligned, much of the time is spent by Leia and Empire equivalents at propping up alliances or neutrality agreements, and both sides are looking for an advantage in the continued war. Han doesn't run off as a smuggler because he's now invested in these friends, Luke is trying to figure out his place but recognizes the advantage of a Jedi being around, etc. I'm going to really work off my memory here so I could get major chunks of this wrong, or be combing it with another book or something. The trilogy's actual hook is Thrawn himself, he's thrust into a role of intergalactic significance and progresses to realize what that means. When he's placed in the position to decide regarding the Clone War armada they come across and most of the one book is spent with both sides fighting over, it's one of the few times that Star Wars actually stops and asks moral questions about character actions. Thrawn recognizes the evil of the Late Empire, but also it's importance prior in providing a form of Galactic Order, as well as the Clone War Armada being potentially a greater evil than the continued sparring with the Rebels. (The book is sketchy on the events of the Clone Wars because I know a few people here remember that before the Prequels actually showed the damn thing it was considered this horrific monstrous war, and the book works off that premise that activating the ships may unleash an old terror. And the suggestion that the Empire may have been necessary to simply end it, not because it was a setup by Palpatine, but because it was the only way to end the horror.)

also a semi-related comment on how Thrawn's post-Jedi universe is in comparison to how Abrams post-Jedi universe is with wookiepedia sourcing: http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=42590.msg2354841#msg2354841

spoiler (click to show/hide)

What the OT pulled off was telling a story, though hardly an original one, about a small band of characters and their adventures, while hinting at a larger world, until ESB upends the entire table and forces Jedi to start reaching ludicrous speeds for a conclusion that neither of the prior two films, nor even the first half of Jedi justify. The New Trilogy so far is working off Jedi's model more than the others.

The Prequels went in the entire opposite direction, galaxy altering events were happening all over and Lucas was jamming Obi-Wan and Anakin and Natalie Portman into the center of them. Because prophecy.

My half seriousness about TPM, and ultimately Palpatine's entire plot since his scheming is actually best shown in TPM considering where the film starts regarding all the pieces he has to move, being the best, is it's the actual Star Wars film where there is a full on plot at work. As much as Lucas wanted the Prequels to be about Anakin that's outright trash and ultimately irrelevant, it's really about Palpatine's manipulation of the entire galaxy to not only turn the entire galactic government over to his control, but wipe out the Jedi after millennia with none of them even knowing it's a Sith plot until the last film at which point it's too late. Anakin doesn't even truly fall under Palpatine's thrall until the back third of ROTS and even Palpatine had to be surprised as fuck at how he pulled it off.

The OT doesn't have any of this. It has better actors, better dialogue, better direction, better pacing, better action, etc. but until Lucas decided "the twist" it didn't have anything to hold it together except the character relationships. (Which it upends for Jedi.) The NT so far doesn't have much of any of it either. We're two thirds of a way through the story now and what exactly has been accomplished that the notion of Star Wars as a fantasy epic with a vital universe is backed by?

[close]

[chronovore]

I FUCKING LOVED THIS ARTICLE:

https://www.zacbertschy.com/blog/2017/12/29/my-hero-luke-skywalker

[Momo]

I FUCKING LOVED THIS ARTICLE:

https://www.zacbertschy.com/blog/2017/12/29/my-hero-luke-skywalker

>decries Luke for being a self-insert
>uses Luke as a self-insert

[Stoney Mason]

One final thing about the Last Jedi that I wanted to talk about and then I'm kind of done with discussion on it as I've talked about everything that interests me on it. I find it odd that people give credit to the last jedi for making the movie about "failure" and how brave and original that was and a shocking subversion of expectations.

I mean once again I go back to the Empire Strikes back and its basically just following that template without the heavy handedness of having a character literally tell us the point of the movie is failure.

All the characters fail all over the place in empire. All of them. And its just woven in as part of the story. Characters are warned that the actions they are taking don't seem likely. Like when Yoda warns Luke about confronting Vader. The character goes and does it. Learns a painful truth and loses his hand. Han Solo gets betrayed by a close friend and frozen in carbonite.

So this idea that Last Jedi is either original and unique because of its themes strike me as odd. It's basically just using the Strikes back template in a more heavy handed and clunky manner with less interesting plots striving to achieve the same thing.

For me I see this alot with Jedi where people seem to give it a lot of credit for things that imo were done better in other movies and aren't as original as people make them out to be.

This is part of that disconnect I have where the people who dislike the movie seem to dislike it for reasons that seem trivial to me but people who love it tend to give it over-credit for things that have been done better before or sort of given more credit for things that aren't really as bold and innovative as they seem to think.

Either way, I'm all talked out on Last Jedi until some interesting piece comes along to give new fuel to the conversation.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Star Wars holds a place in people's hearts mainly because it was the only game in town back then that was sci-fi and popular. More than for the fact that it was good. The more I watch anything star wars, the more I'm convinced that this is true.

[Stoney Mason]

I don't know. I like Star Wars. At least in comparison to most modern blockbuster entertainment. I still think its better than most of the super-hero fare out there. At least in theory people can die in Star Wars. At least in theory, you have to eventually retire old characters and put in new characters.

I may stop feeling that way in a few years after the 10th year in a row with a Star Wars movie but you know what I mean. I still think a good star wars movie brings more to the table than another marvel movie.

I've yet to Watch Game of Thrones so I can't really comment on that though that seems to be the new Stars Wars for this generation.

[team filler]

I FUCKING LOVED THIS ARTICLE:

https://www.zacbertschy.com/blog/2017/12/29/my-hero-luke-skywalker

"Luke fucking Skywalker, in the drive thru at 3am getting two double decker taco supremes, a bean and cheese burrito and a large Diet Mountain Dew. He’ll finish Super Mario Odyssey at 5:30 in the morning and wait to tweet about it until after he wakes up at 6pm so people don’t notice he was up all night again. They wouldn’t really notice, but he thinks they would."

[Himu]

One final thing about the Last Jedi that I wanted to talk about and then I'm kind of done with discussion on it as I've talked about everything that interests me on it. I find it odd that people give credit to the last jedi for making the movie about "failure" and how brave and original that was and a shocking subversion of expectations.

I mean once again I go back to the Empire Strikes back and its basically just following that template without the heavy handedness of having a character literally tell us the point of the movie is failure.

All the characters fail all over the place in empire. All of them. And its just woven in as part of the story. Characters are warned that the actions they are taking don't seem likely. Like when Yoda warns Luke about confronting Vader. The character goes and does it. Learns a painful truth and loses his hand. Han Solo gets betrayed by a close friend and frozen in carbonite.

So this idea that Last Jedi is either original and unique because of its themes strike me as odd. It's basically just using the Strikes back template in a more heavy handed and clunky manner with less interesting plots striving to achieve the same thing.

For me I see this alot with Jedi where people seem to give it a lot of credit for things that imo were done better in other movies and aren't as original as people make them out to be.

This is part of that disconnect I have where the people who dislike the movie seem to dislike it for reasons that seem trivial to me but people who love it tend to give it over-credit for things that have been done better before or sort of given more credit for things that aren't really as bold and innovative as they seem to think.

Either way, I'm all talked out on Last Jedi until some interesting piece comes along to give new fuel to the conversation.

Completely agreed.

[Himu]

Star Wars holds a place in people's hearts mainly because it was the only game in town back then that was sci-fi and popular. More than for the fact that it was good. The more I watch anything star wars, the more I'm convinced that this is true.

Star Trek. How does it explain the popularity of sci-fi back in 90's when the prequels came out? Star Wars isn't even sci-fi. It has none of the gravitas and depth that defines sci-fi.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Star Wars holds a place in people's hearts mainly because it was the only game in town back then that was sci-fi and popular. More than for the fact that it was good. The more I watch anything star wars, the more I'm convinced that this is true.

Star Trek. How does it explain the popularity of sci-fi back in 90's when the prequels came out? Star Wars isn't even sci-fi. It has none of the gravitas and depth that defines sci-fi.

If we're splitting hairs then I guess you could say pulp sci fi or pop sci fi. And of course the prequels were exciting in the 90s, half of the people wanted to relive their teens and the other half wanted to introduce their kids to star wars. Surely you're not making the point that the prequels were popular from their own merit?

[Tokyosandblaster]

Star Wars holds a place in people's hearts mainly because it was the only game in town back then that was sci-fi and popular. More than for the fact that it was good. The more I watch anything star wars, the more I'm convinced that this is true.

Star Trek. How does it explain the popularity of sci-fi back in 90's when the prequels came out? Star Wars isn't even sci-fi. It has none of the gravitas and depth that defines sci-fi.

It takes place in a galaxy far, far away. There are space ships. There are aliens. There are midichlorians. There is Jar Jar Binks. It's not deep like Star Trek but lol at it not being sci-fi.

[Himu]

Star Wars holds a place in people's hearts mainly because it was the only game in town back then that was sci-fi and popular. More than for the fact that it was good. The more I watch anything star wars, the more I'm convinced that this is true.

Star Trek. How does it explain the popularity of sci-fi back in 90's when the prequels came out? Star Wars isn't even sci-fi. It has none of the gravitas and depth that defines sci-fi.

If we're splitting hairs then I guess you could say pulp sci fi or pop sci fi. And of course the prequels were exciting in the 90s, half of the people wanted to relive their teens and the other half wanted to introduce their kids to star wars. Surely you're not making the point that the prequels were popular from their own merit?

I didn't say that at all. You said Star Wars was popular because there was no other competition. But the 90's was FULL of sci-fi competition that was very popular.

Star Wars holds a place in people's hearts mainly because it was the only game in town back then that was sci-fi and popular. More than for the fact that it was good. The more I watch anything star wars, the more I'm convinced that this is true.

Star Trek. How does it explain the popularity of sci-fi back in 90's when the prequels came out? Star Wars isn't even sci-fi. It has none of the gravitas and depth that defines sci-fi.

It takes place in a galaxy far, far away. There are space ships. There are aliens. There are midichlorians. There is Jar Jar Binks. It's not deep like Star Trek but lol at it not being sci-fi.

Fine. It's sci-fi then. But it wasn't the only game in town. Maybe when it was released if that was his point.

[benjipwns]

[Momo]

I cant wait for Rebels to start up again

[chronovore]

I cant wait for Rebels to start up again

Is this the final season?

[Momo]

I cant wait for Rebels to start up again

Is this the final season?

Yeah, only half a season to go

[Stoney Mason]

[thehunter116]

I cant wait for Rebels to start up again

I can't wait to see how they tie it in with Rogue One.