Street Fighter V: Super $60 Server-Beta Test Edition - Season 2 Underway!

[Mods Help]

You sure do seem against learning how to play fighting games!

Emphasis on learn.

You know, what you use training room for.

We'll see in a month! You fight battle after battle after battle. I'll fight battles and then go to training to find ways to win that situation! Then the next time it comes up I'll be more wary and win it.

 

[mormapope]

You realize this exact same conversation happened and the exact same reaction happened? 

I was open to actual retorts or a debate this time though. Instead I was told to do something I already do and any argument I had was ignored. 

Except this time around you aren't criticizing the lack of tutorials or how the game teaches you, rather, you're praising the training mode as if its qualities became apparent as time went on.


Seems like SFV will have actual tutorials this time though. So they improved on that front a bit.

[bork]

This last page is a clear sign of the fighting game pre-release madness.    THERE IS NO CURE.  Hang in there, brehs.

[nachobro]

 

[mormapope]

Were matchmaking options and lobbies as barebones as Street Fighter IV? In general I would be disappointed with SFV if the online functionality was still something out of a Xbox 360 launch game. SFIV came out in 2009 and it felt ancient with its online options.

[nachobro]

iirc there were two people lobbies and no spectating in vanilla sf4 at launch. so sfv at least matches that lol. mvc3 had larger lobbies but no spectating. sfxt at least had its shit together, the host could even set themselves to perma-spectate to make streaming lobbies easier.

[mormapope]

What I want or wanted the most were endless lobbies where everyone in the lobby is fighting another player at the same time. So instead of two people fighting and four people spectating, everyone in the lobby can fight each other and then move onto fighting the person with the current win streak.

Seems like with the current technical issues and generally rushed nature of SFV that there won't be any big online advancements, just refinements on what worked in the past
 

[nachobro]

Gonna try doing that VPN thing to unlock SFV early on Steam. Got the whole day off so might as well get some time in.

[bork]

Gonna try doing that VPN thing to unlock SFV early on Steam. Got the whole day off so might as well get some time in.

Any VPNs in particular?

[bork]

It's 4:14 PM on 2/15 in London right now.  The game won't unlock there for another eight hours.  Capcom posted the following:

Great news, Street Fighter fans!

We're happy to confirm that the release date & time for Street Fighter V has been moved up per the revised schedule below.

Europe........Feb. 16 @0:00AM UK (UTC+00:00)
AUS/NZ.......Feb. 16 @11:00AM Sydney (UTC+10:00)
Americas.....Feb. 16 @0:00AM EST (Feb. 15@9:00PM PST)
Asia.............Feb. 17 @2:00AM JST (UTC+09:00)

[nachobro]

Huh oh well

[Take My Breh Away]

https://twitter.com/KazHiraiCEO/status/699310054097424384

[bork]

https://twitter.com/KazHiraiCEO/status/699310054097424384

 

[nachobro]

Any VPNs in particular?

btw gonna try this method to unlock early
https://www.reddit.com/r/fo4/comments/3s0ztf/step_by_step_vpn_tutorial_how_to_unlock_fallout_4/

except i'll set it to UK instead of NZ

[bork]

Thanks, it worked.  I'm in! 

[toku]

http://www.twitch.tv/maximilian_dood

[Mods Help]

Training mode

Practicing dem bnbs! Finally - hands on time with the cast with no dumb fight request on!

Tried out story mode and I just can't

[thisismyusername]

This story mode, though. Only two fights.  ...Are you serious, Capcom?

[nachobro]

That story mode is a shitfest.

Don't think I can play Cammy right now. Too used to SF4 and trying to play the game exactly like that when I use her. Laura doe...seems fun but I can't tell wtf I'm supposed to do with her. I've just been trying to end every combo with a QCF+P,P,P/K special and it's working out well so far but it feels like I'm missing something.

[Oblivion]

The art style in the story mode is 

[Mods Help]

When you get past how short story mode is it isn't bad. Dhalsim and Fang's story modes are pretty good.

[bork]

That Bengus art really is pretty bad.  Dude totally phoned it in.

I ended up mostly playing...Chun.  Even though I spent most of the beta tests not using her. 


Online was pretty much as I expected.  Beat most people with relative ease (KEN SCRUBS RETURN!), although there was one Karin player who wiped the floor with me.  He shut down all of my attempts to get in and completely out-footsied me.  It was beautiful.

[Mods Help]

More than likely Capcom went to Bengus and said "we need you to do story mode by the end of the weekend"

Happens all the time. Bengus didn't phone it in, the story mode was rushed.

[Mods Help]

My friend and I are like fuck Capcom. We're playing 2 player via ps4 share play 

[bork]

More than likely Capcom went to Bengus and said "we need you to do story mode by the end of the weekend"

Happens all the time. Bengus didn't phone it in, the story mode was rushed.

No excuse for it.

[bork]

My friend and I are like fuck Capcom. We're playing 2 player via ps4 share play 

Doesn't that introduce lag though?

[nachobro]

Doesn't that introduce lag though?

so its an accurate simulation of the actual netcode 

[mormapope]

No excuse for it.

The amount of hand waving for the lack of offline options on Gaf is embarrassing. One of the best ways I got warmed up or got used to a character in SFIV was cranking the AI up to hardest in Vs. mode, making it best of 7 or 8 rounds, and trying to get a large win streak going.

Even Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, a game released for $15 on xbox live arcade and PSN, has more offline options than a $60, 2016, Capcom and Sony published Street Fighter. I'm usually not the type of person to argue what dollar amount is perfect for the value you get, but Street Fighter V is utterly fucked when it comes to value.

Street Fighter IV wasn't perfect in this regard either, but it was a 2009 game that got tons of content tacked on top overtime. 7 or so years later and there's less of everything across the board.

[mormapope]

Capcom should've bitten their tongue and made Street Fighter V free to play, copy the Killer Instinct method wholesale instead of doing some weird half assed approach.

Or priced the game accurately for what it really is. $19.99 or $29.99 or even $39.99 would've been far more acceptable than $60.

People were joking long before release that all we would get is arcade mode with a few cutscenes for each character. Turns out even that was too much to ask for. 

[bork]

The fanboy defense force is out in full...force on this one, yeah.  Like, I'm happy to get the game now too, but holy shit you cannot defend the parts of the game that are rushed or the fact that the game was clearly released in an unfinished state.  It's OK to like something and still be critical of it.  Something that is lost on far too many posters.

[nachobro]

Are lobbies working yet? Last I saw they were turned off or something because you'd get an instant fail when trying to create one.

[Mods Help]

My friend and I are like fuck Capcom. We're playing 2 player via ps4 share play 

Doesn't that introduce lag though?

Yeah. I couldn't reliably AA him but still.

[Mods Help]

More than likely Capcom went to Bengus and said "we need you to do story mode by the end of the weekend"

Happens all the time. Bengus didn't phone it in, the story mode was rushed.

No excuse for it.

Didn't say there's an excuse. Just don't say Bengus rushed it. When your boss tells you he wants 200 drawings done before the afternoon there's nothing to do but to rush it. You have no argument in the matter. The only thing you can do is half ass it and half assing it is going to keep you a job. I'm not excusing it. I'm saying it's Capcom that should get the blame. This happens all the time in creative industries. It isn't like other jobs. And It adds to Capcom half assing SFV's release because there's no time for Bengus to make something actually good.

[Mods Help]

The fanboy defense force is out in full...force on this one, yeah.  Like, I'm happy to get the game now too, but holy shit you cannot defend the parts of the game that are rushed or the fact that the game was clearly released in an unfinished state.  It's OK to like something and still be critical of it.  Something that is lost on far too many posters.

I like story mode. It's light on content but I still find it preferable to arcade. I see it as character prologues, and I think it gets the job done. Capcom also never said it was arcade mode or that it'd have the length of arcade mode. But I understand all criticisms. At the same time I find it far more interesting the traditonal cutscene at beginning/cutscene at the end story structure that fighting games have had for decades. Usually you wouldn't even get an intro cutscene and there was little idea of who these characters you play actually are. I thought Fang's story mode in particular was a great way to introduce him, for example. The other new characters' were good too.

At the same time, all criticisms are legitimate. Capcom were stupid to have no arcade mode and I expect them to roll it out soon due to the very justified backlash.

Despite the connection issues I've loved my time with SFV. Practicing combos, the story mode is fun, and when I do get into a fight it's fun as shit.

So far my only large complaint is survival mode, which sucks.

All of this will be fixed soon eventually. I'm only worried about the game from the perspective of long term casual interest in the game, to keep the game healthy, occupied, and active, which a lot of these fuck ups may ruin in the long term.

No excuse for it.

The amount of hand waving for the lack of offline options on Gaf is embarrassing. One of the best ways I got warmed up or got used to a character in SFIV was cranking the AI up to hardest in Vs. mode, making it best of 7 or 8 rounds, and trying to get a large win streak going.

You can't do this in SFV by playing survival? Survival is pretty good at getting warmed up. It's actually the only good thing about the mode.

[mormapope]

Another business model that could've worked is release an early access of the game for $20, so the current state its in. Around the time EVO happens, offer a $40 upgrade to people that got the early access copy along with including all the season pass characters if they haven't gotten the season pass already. The real full version released after EVO would be $60 if people didn't get the early access version.

Full version would include:

Story mode (the full on legit one)
Arcade mode
Vs. against CPU
Time attack
Survival mode
All season 1 DLC characters
A couple outfits for all the characters

Capcom chose the absolute worst way to release a game when it comes to expectations and goodwill.

You can't do this in SFV by playing survival? Survival is pretty good at getting warmed up. It's actually the only good thing about the mode.

With versus against CPU I also like to test specific matchups. A grappler versus AI that constantly throws out fireballs, defends itself against all jump ins as well. Blanka versus T Hawk and the same match in reverse, M bison versus Guile and that match in reverse. Those examples are worst case scenarios for T Hawk and M Bison for match ups, trying to see why in a live exercise has helped me a lot in the past.

[Mods Help]

I like the idea of releasing it early and marketing it towards competitive players and then in March releasing the "full version" that has all of those modes and features you mentioned.

That way the competitive one is seen as early access and the "full" one is marketed as a mass product.

In the end, there's a billion ways Capcom could have pulled this off and they did quite easily one of the worst ones.

[Bebpo]

Got this today from Amazon.  Never played the Betas.  Realize there's no real single player anything and I don't play online.  Put it in the closet to pull out occasionally when friends come over.

Also as a non-serious fighting game player (outside Virtua Fighter), I think my main issue with SF as a series from a shallow single player point of view is: 1) Really small movelists compared to other fighters these days, and 2) Not enough new characters.  SF compared to Blazblue/GG/Fighting Climax/Arcana Heart and stuff just seems like a really basic fighter that's more about mind-games and traditional skill vs. a million moves and combos to fuck around with for each character.  Which isn't a bad thing, it's SF's schtick I guess.  But like after all of these years it'd be nice if Ryu got a couple of new moves (even his V-trigger stuff doesn't seem to give new moves, just add extra damage/visual effect to his attacks and parry).  My favorite SF was SF3 because I felt like they really changed up the cast + the parry system.  I also used to love the hacked SF2 arcade machines with air fireballs and stuff that gave a lot more combat options even if they were broken.  Also I don't know how I feel about the V-trigger system where basically 1/4th or 1/3rd of your attacks are locked away until the very end of the match when you V bar is filled.  Just feels like liking part of my movelist away that I would like to actually use to have more moves available for my character.

Again, none of this is negative and I respect the game as a great competitive fighter.  But from an outside perspective as someone who'd rather have new moves, new characters, cool combo juggling potentials and 2-3 supers per characters, it's not exactly my top go to fighter.

[mormapope]

Not enough new characters.  SF compared to Blazblue/GG/Fighting Climax/Arcana Heart and stuff just seems like a really basic fighter that's more about mind-games and traditional skill vs. a million moves and combos to fuck around with for each character. 

That's Street Fighter to a T.

Street Fighter IV by the end of its life had a huge cast of characters to its credit, and they all played quite differently. I'd say SFIV is probably the most combo-ey and complex game in the series. Those two elements don't automatically make a fighting game better necessarily either. SF3 has the least amount of Street Fighter in it's design, mechanics, and DNA overall.

[Mods Help]

Other fighters do not have large movelists especially "these days" where most fighters are 2d. 2d fighters generally never have. You're coming into this from a 3d fighter perspective which have a billion asinine moves and pages upon pages of movelists. Not my thing. 2d fighters have always had limited movelists. Your complaints can be thrown at most 2d fighters. Even fighters like GG. You can't combo in GG if you can't use mind games in order to have the opportunity to pull a combo off in the first place.

[thisismyusername]

Doesn't that introduce lag though?

so its an accurate simulation of the actual netcode 

@Justin Bebpo: That's Street Fighter though. You're coming from a modded experience. SF5 is essentially SF2... -2. The whole thing is supposed to be basic and not combo heavy. Which is a good thing for 2D fighters. I love Guilty Gear, but holy shit this last outing for it has added thousands of systems that completely shut down a newbies mind. That's a bad thing.

[Mods Help]

"SF5 is essentially SF2... -2"

What

[Mods Help]

"SF5 is essentially SF2... -2"

What

[thisismyusername]

"SF5 is essentially SF2... -2"

What

Fundamentals, dear. Fundamentals.

[Mods Help]

Every SF requires that.

[mormapope]

SFV seems to be unique in the SF franchise when it comes to feel and depth. Hard to compare it to any other Street Fighter directly.

[Mods Help]

Feels like Alpha 2 crossed with 3S. Except much slower.

[Bebpo]

Other fighters do not have large movelists especially "these days" where most fighters are 2d. 2d fighters generally never have. You're coming into this from a 3d fighter perspective which have a billion asinine moves and pages upon pages of movelists. Not my thing. 2d fighters have always had limited movelists. Your complaints can be thrown at most 2d fighters. Even fighters like GG. You can't combo in GG if you can't use mind games in order to have the opportunity to pull a combo off in the first place.

I disagree on this point.  A lot of Arc Sys 2d fighters have like 5-10 moves + couple of supers per character.  Ryu for instance, still only has 3 moves, fireball/dragon punch/hurricane kick + 1 super.  Add in the V-trigger stuff and he's got sorta 2 more, but like I said I don't really count at least the electricity one as a move since it just seems to modify damage.  That's 4 specials + 1 super and a few unique regulars like f+MP.  Movelists in SF seem about 1/2 the size of the movelists in other 2d fighters these days imo.  Not that I think it's a bad thing, but I like having big movelists for combo variety.

[Mods Help]

That's Ryu. Capcom is always taking away moves from him. Some characters have v skills that act as an attack. Also the game just came out. Bet by the end of the games life cycle there will be two or three supers available. Arc games don't have as many specials as you say it does. I just looked at my main in BB and they only have five specials. 2d fighters are mostly made up of normals and SF and Arc games share normals. In fact, SF has more normals than Arc games. SF has six normal buttons, eight if you need to use a PPP or KKK move like Sim's teleport. Add in command normals (Chun Li's down forward + mk, back+mp;etc) and SF has tons of moves.

It also depends on the character.

Let's take Birdie. His vskill allows him to eat a snack to regen health. He can throw a banana peel to zone. He can toss a soda can and push you back so you avoid it. That's off of one button. Birdie has a lot of moves.

Comparing Ryu - as basic as it gets - to Arc games is silly.

You also said characters only have 5-10 moves, hinting that you only consider specials to be moves. Suggesting inexperience in the genre.

[Mods Help]

Also, BB is a four button game. GG is a five button game. SF is six.

Food for thought.

[thisismyusername]

Every SF requires that.

Sure, but SF5 feels closest to 2 over 3/4. There's some mechanics from 3 (Ryu's parry being notable) but it's kinda taken a step back in terms of execution and combo-ability. Sure, you can still combo, but for the most part 5 wants more normal hits over "poke->combo" that 4 was of-sorts.

[Mods Help]

Every SF requires that.

Sure, but SF5 feels closest to 2 over 3/4. There's some mechanics from 3 (Ryu's parry being notable) but it's kinda taken a step back in terms of execution and combo-ability. Sure, you can still combo, but for the most part 5 wants more normal hits over "poke->combo" that 4 was of-sorts.

Generally, SF has never been about combos. There are outliers (Alpha 3, 4) but SF has never been about combos, and the same fundamentals you mentioned would win you matches in 4 as well as Alpha 3. SF is SF. If you have the fundamentals of any SF, you can play V to a decent level. So V not being execution heavy isn't exactly unique or special. There were SF's before IV you know.

[mormapope]

That is true. A lot of people played SF4 in the style of mash light kick or punch and then do a dial up combo. Hard knockdowns were also a huge part of SF4, for a ton of characters scoring a hard knockdown meant doing a 50/50 mixup or an unblockable setup.

SFV is a lot more honest than SF4. Until Blanka makes his comeback
 

Focus attacks were also terrible. My biggest beef is the best characters in the game for offensive shit usually had the best focus attacks, Rolento's focus attack range is beyond fucked up. SFIV was also incredibly fucked up for what specials would be completely safe on block, some characters (Elena) can apply pressure constantly with very little drawback.

[Mods Help]

I'm curious if Ibuki will have her vortex setups from IV or more of her style in 3S.

[Bebpo]

That's Ryu. Capcom is always taking away moves from him. Some characters have v skills that act as an attack. Also the game just came out. Bet by the end of the games life cycle there will be two or three supers available. Arc games don't have as many specials as you say it does. I just looked at my main in BB and they only have five specials. 2d fighters are mostly made up of normals and SF and Arc games share normals. In fact, SF has more normals than Arc games. SF has six normal buttons, eight if you need to use a PPP or KKK move like Sim's teleport. Add in command normals (Chun Li's down forward + mk, back+mp;etc) and SF has tons of moves.

It also depends on the character.

Let's take Birdie. His vskill allows him to eat a snack to regen health. He can throw a banana peel to zone. He can toss a soda can and push you back so you avoid it. That's off of one button. Birdie has a lot of moves.

Comparing Ryu - as basic as it gets - to Arc games is silly.

You also said characters only have 5-10 moves, hinting that you only consider specials to be moves. Suggesting inexperience in the genre.

  Yeah, because I've only been playing the genre since SF1 and played (and own) almost fighting game ever made to date.

I'm shallow and I don't care about normals because they aren't flashy.  I see normals mostly as pokes, combo starters and combo links to get you to the high damaging cool looking special moves.  I prefer a game with fewer normals and more special moves.  Which is why I'm more prone to the 4-button fighters.  Ever since I played SF2, I'd never use the medium attacks outside of a few combos here or there.  Jab pokes, Fierce strong attacks were good enough for me.

But yeah I don't play competitively in fighting games since the PS3/X360 days since my local fighting game competition friends took off and I don't like online gaming.  So I'm a lot more shallow about my fighters now. 

Every SF requires that.

Sure, but SF5 feels closest to 2 over 3/4. There's some mechanics from 3 (Ryu's parry being notable) but it's kinda taken a step back in terms of execution and combo-ability. Sure, you can still combo, but for the most part 5 wants more normal hits over "poke->combo" that 4 was of-sorts.

Weird, I always felt that SF4 was basically a throwback SF2 in 2.5D with a few things added.  Less progressive than SF3.  So SF5 is an even more throwback to SF2?

[mormapope]

SF3 isn't really progressive or regressive, its it's own thing.

Zoning and spacing with fireballs with any shoto or ranged character matters a lot in SF2 and SF4. Fireballs in SF3 are next to useless for zoning. They're all pretty slow and they can be parried easily. Fireballs have to be used less for spacing and keep-away, more for medium ranged pressure or baiting a parry so you can get in after the parry.

SF3 poking range for all characters except Necro and Twelve is terrible. Feels like everyone has stubby arms and legs compared to past and future street fighter characters. Spacing someone out with normals is also a lot more risky, since a parry means they can punish something that would be safe in any other Street Fighter. Spacing in SF3 matters a lot less compared to the other Street Fighters.

SF3 is about getting in and applying constant pressure. Using all the tools available to get in and using close range pokes to get counters and then to get a combo out of that counter attack.

SF4 is a slower and more complicated version of SF2, with a lot of extra gimmicks thrown in.

[Mods Help]

SFV has a lot of ways around fireballs. It's not as fireball heavy a game as SFII, Alpha 2, or SFIV.

Yeah, because I've only been playing the genre since SF1 and played (and own) almost fighting game ever made to date.

I'm shallow and I don't care about normals because they aren't flashy.  I see normals mostly as pokes, combo starters and combo links to get you to the high damaging cool looking special moves. 

 

[bork]

Yeah, Bebpo....



Is all I can really say here.

[nachobro]

Yeah I'm just giving up on Cammy entirely for now. I keep playing SF4 with her and it might be easier to just play someone else until that muscle memory isn't there anymore.

I still feel distinguished mentally-challenged playing as Laura. She seems like a shittier Abel but maybe I'm just playing her wrong. Fiddled a bit with Birdie and he definitely feels a lot easier to play and his VTrigger giving armor helps a lot.

[thisismyusername]

Play Nash bro. 

[nachobro]

 

I'll wait for Guile