Author Topic: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei  (Read 48020 times)

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bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #300 on: February 16, 2016, 03:38:53 PM »
Started re-watching this again, now that the two movie stories are over and a new storyline has begun (with episode 28).  The pacing is insanely slow but it's fun to see how things are unfolding.  This storyline finally gets into the concept hinted at earlier -that there's other universes- and is essentially a World Tournament IN SPAAAAAAAACE storyline with two universes gearing up to fight each other.  Most of the new characters look pretty goofy (they're not even revealed in the anime yet but the manga version has shown them) but I suspect transformations-a-plenty will be happening.  There's even SUPER Dragon Balls, which I guess makes the show's name make sense finally.
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Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #301 on: March 09, 2024, 01:25:36 AM »
Bump. I love Dragon Ball and I loved you Toriyama.

I think i'll watch DB from the beginning. Last time I did this i read the manga. I want some anime for nostalgia this time. Going to go through the original DBZ starting with original DB anime. Hnnng.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 02:53:58 PM by Himu »
IYKYK

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #302 on: March 09, 2024, 10:56:31 PM »
tbh Iím surprised they havenít done a new adaptation of Dragon Ball. There was that movie telling a truncated version. But even that was from the 90s. Sailor Moon, Kenshin, Urusei Yatsura, HxH, and others got second adaptations. I think it holds up really well but it never got the same attention as DBZ. Maybe a new one will get people invested.

The new Daima series looks like a big send up to DB.

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #303 on: March 10, 2024, 12:26:27 AM »
Started og DB and I'm watching it uncut. Shit is still hilarious but let's see if I can stomach Oolong.
tbh Iím surprised they havenít done a new adaptation of Dragon Ball. There was that movie telling a truncated version. But even that was from the 90s. Sailor Moon, Kenshin, Urusei Yatsura, HxH, and others got second adaptations. I think it holds up really well but it never got the same attention as DBZ. Maybe a new one will get people invested.

The new Daima series looks like a big send up to DB.

I think DB in general need a new version completely re-animated that starts from the beginning of DB and ends with Z that ties the life of Goku together.
IYKYK

daemon

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #304 on: March 11, 2024, 02:31:34 PM »
Started og DB and I'm watching it uncut. Shit is still hilarious but let's see if I can stomach Oolong.
tbh Iím surprised they havenít done a new adaptation of Dragon Ball. There was that movie telling a truncated version. But even that was from the 90s. Sailor Moon, Kenshin, Urusei Yatsura, HxH, and others got second adaptations. I think it holds up really well but it never got the same attention as DBZ. Maybe a new one will get people invested.

The new Daima series looks like a big send up to DB.

I think DB in general need a new version completely re-animated that starts from the beginning of DB and ends with Z that ties the life of Goku together.

I feel they're waiting on a generation change that includes a full seiyuu replacement. Right now it doesn't feel right. And considering dragonball is still incredibly profitable it feels like something that could backfire due to fan response.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #305 on: March 11, 2024, 02:48:21 PM »
The last movie dealt with red ribbon and had some old scenes reanimated. Naturally the movies have a far greater budget. But itís nice to want things.


bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #306 on: March 12, 2024, 10:33:41 AM »
Started og DB and I'm watching it uncut. Shit is still hilarious but let's see if I can stomach Oolong.
tbh Iím surprised they havenít done a new adaptation of Dragon Ball. There was that movie telling a truncated version. But even that was from the 90s. Sailor Moon, Kenshin, Urusei Yatsura, HxH, and others got second adaptations. I think it holds up really well but it never got the same attention as DBZ. Maybe a new one will get people invested.

The new Daima series looks like a big send up to DB.

I think DB in general need a new version completely re-animated that starts from the beginning of DB and ends with Z that ties the life of Goku together.

I think it's time for the story to move on and introduce new main characters or focus on the new Saiyans introduced during the universal tournamen- their universe has a whole Saiyan planet so they could have a lot of new characters.  Might be a huge backlash if they do this though.

Went and rewatched Future Trunks' introduction and swift takedowns of Freeza and King Cold.  Still one of my favorite parts of DBZ.  That was such a badass introduction.
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Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #307 on: March 12, 2024, 09:47:35 PM »
Started og DB and I'm watching it uncut. Shit is still hilarious but let's see if I can stomach Oolong.
tbh Iím surprised they havenít done a new adaptation of Dragon Ball. There was that movie telling a truncated version. But even that was from the 90s. Sailor Moon, Kenshin, Urusei Yatsura, HxH, and others got second adaptations. I think it holds up really well but it never got the same attention as DBZ. Maybe a new one will get people invested.

The new Daima series looks like a big send up to DB.

I think DB in general need a new version completely re-animated that starts from the beginning of DB and ends with Z that ties the life of Goku together.

I think it's time for the story to move on and introduce new main characters or focus on the new Saiyans introduced during the universal tournamen- their universe has a whole Saiyan planet so they could have a lot of new characters.  Might be a huge backlash if they do this though.

Went and rewatched Future Trunks' introduction and swift takedowns of Freeza and King Cold.  Still one of my favorite parts of DBZ.  That was such a badass introduction.

I haven't caught up on DB Super manga so I don't know what happens past Super Heroes but I agree and I was so disappointed Super wasn't about them exploring other universes. There's alternate universes in the future timeline with Goku Black, but you've got this tournament featuring people from other universes and an entire Saiyan planet. Goku is so strong now that I want them to move on from him but it won't happen.

The last movie dealt with red ribbon and had some old scenes reanimated. Naturally the movies have a far greater budget. But itís nice to want things.



Yeah I remember this and it looked fantastic.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #308 on: March 13, 2024, 09:10:48 PM »
iirc the Super manga is its own thing. The manga has arcs between Broly and Super Hero.

tl;dr spoilers of the manga pre superhero stuff
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Goku perfects Ultra Instinct and Vegeta gets his own Ultra Ego form. Freiza finds a room of spirits and time on another planet and trains for 10 years. Shows up as Black Frieza and instantly beats them both. Heís set to be some big future threat.
[close]

The new Daima anime, I think is set before Super? And Super is nearly caught up to the 10 year jump of DBZ.

Maybe it doesnít actually matter.

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #309 on: March 13, 2024, 10:01:45 PM »
I wish they'd get rid of Frieza. I hear things about some dude called Mero.
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bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #310 on: March 14, 2024, 02:51:55 PM »
I wish they'd get rid of Frieza. I hear things about some dude called Mero.

Haven't read them, but there is a story arc where the villain is Moro, followed by an arc alled the "Granolah Saga" with several new characters.  Freeza pops up at the end of that one, then the story covers Super Hero and has an epilogue for that not in the movie. 

I think I need to get to readin'.
:leon
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 02:56:35 PM by bork »
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #311 on: March 14, 2024, 03:52:16 PM »
Right, it's Moro. Thanks for the correction.

I started reading DB manga concurrently while also watching it. Honestly both are fantastic.

The DB anime OP1 is a banger and the ED is even better. It just gives nostalgic feels, especially the ED. I love how they drew the manga cover art Toriyama did including some of my favorites like the Bulma jet plane piece.





I LOVE the hand painted backgrounds and effects in this ED. It's dripping with passion.


I wasn't looking forward to Oolong but he turns out to be hilarious. I mean, he's an awful thing but Bulma always gives him what he deserves and that's usually a punch in the back of the head.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 03:58:16 PM by Himu »
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Thread - it only took twenty years
« Reply #312 on: March 18, 2024, 03:02:14 PM »
IYKYK

bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #313 on: March 20, 2024, 08:42:12 AM »
Read the Moro and Granolah stories in the DB Super manga-

The Moro story felt a lot like classic DBZ and we even get appearances from all the old crew at one point.  And by classic DBZ, I mean it had the whole "villain appears, kicks everyone's ass, TIME FOR TRAINING, more fighting, the end" vibe going on.  But it also had some good character growth for Vegeta and started to show a slightly different side of him.  Goku stays Goku (and this is even pointed out in the story, lol).  But the ending fell a little bit flat, mainly because it felt a whole lot like a Majin Buu retread but with some Cell elements.  Can't talk about it without spoiling it-

spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's a bad guy in this storyline who's an android with the ability to copy other's abilities.  He's like the second or third strongest character after Moro.  Moro ends up swallowing him whole and absorbing his powers.  His appearance also changes and he looks kind of like Cell.  This is where it starts feeling like a retread, especially how he's defeated, but there's a twist and Vegeta is a big part of it, helping everyone to send energy to Goku so he can power up and finish Moro off.  They don't have enough energy, but suddenly there's a massive burst of energy from one person and we see that it's Uub (as a little kid, being helped by the Lord Of Lords).  Cutting onions moment right there.
[close]

The Granolah story wasn't as good.  Not bad, but after the first half of the arc, it felt kind of like a retread of the Moro story.  But it has some good fights and story moments.  I wasn't big on the villains (the Heeter family) as they felt pretty one-dimensional.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
This storyline is pretty heavily tied to Freeza and the Saiyans, even though Freeza is only there at the very end.  TL;DR version is that Freeza ordered Saiyans to destroy Granolah's planet and then a batch of villains called the Heeter (get it? hyuk hyuk) family swoop in to 'sell' the planet to another race to repopulate.  So the first half of the story is the Heeters tricking Granolah into fighting Goku and Vegeta, then they all team up to fight one of the Heeter crew who powers up.  The similarities to both are that none of the bad guys have training and use other means to get strong which leads to their downfalls.  There's also more Vegeta character growth here and a flashback with Bardock.
[close]

ど助平

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #314 on: March 20, 2024, 08:44:40 AM »
Goku stays Goku means nothing. Super Goku acts nothing like classic Goku. I don't know what "Goku stays Goku" even means.

Sounds like a good arc though.
IYKYK

bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #315 on: March 20, 2024, 01:49:50 PM »
Goku stays Goku means nothing. Super Goku acts nothing like classic Goku. I don't know what "Goku stays Goku" even means.

 :whatisthis

He just wants to fight and train to get more powerful and that's about it.  With Vegeta there ends up being a reason beyond just "gotta get stronger" in these arcs.
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Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #316 on: March 20, 2024, 07:49:08 PM »
Goku stays Goku means nothing. Super Goku acts nothing like classic Goku. I don't know what "Goku stays Goku" even means.

 :whatisthis

He just wants to fight and train to get more powerful and that's about it.  With Vegeta there ends up being a reason beyond just "gotta get stronger" in these arcs.

He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot. Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.
IYKYK

daemon

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #317 on: March 21, 2024, 08:20:20 AM »
Goku stays Goku means nothing. Super Goku acts nothing like classic Goku. I don't know what "Goku stays Goku" even means.

 :whatisthis

He just wants to fight and train to get more powerful and that's about it.  With Vegeta there ends up being a reason beyond just "gotta get stronger" in these arcs.

He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot. Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.

They gave him the homer simpson treatment. To a guy with faults to an absolute moron. Hell, the new super chapters essentially say he never kissed his wife and doesn't remember he has a grandaughter. Extremely stupid stuff. He was simple and naive, not effin dumb&dumber.

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #318 on: March 21, 2024, 03:47:12 PM »
Goku stays Goku means nothing. Super Goku acts nothing like classic Goku. I don't know what "Goku stays Goku" even means.

 :whatisthis

He just wants to fight and train to get more powerful and that's about it.  With Vegeta there ends up being a reason beyond just "gotta get stronger" in these arcs.

He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot. Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.

They gave him the homer simpson treatment. To a guy with faults to an absolute moron. Hell, the new super chapters essentially say he never kissed his wife and doesn't remember he has a grandaughter. Extremely stupid stuff. He was simple and naive, not effin dumb&dumber.

I also reject the Goku was a bad dad label. Goku is an excellent dad. Unfortunately he sacrifices his life ahead of his family twice in the story. Hell, sacrifices his life for Gohan fighting Radditz. The second time he sacrifices his life to save everyone from Cell blowing himself up. He was stuck on Namek and later in space. Itís not Gokuís fault certain incidents happen to make him separated from his family. When he is there heís the most supportive dad imaginable and as a kid I looked up to him as a great dad that pushed Gohanís (my favorite character) potential. Goku not training his granddaughter in martial arts. Unthinkable.
IYKYK

bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #319 on: March 21, 2024, 07:56:43 PM »
The Super manga is going on hiatus-- people thought this meant indefinitely, but they have announced that it will be returning on May 21st. Nobody is sure if Toyotarou will now be writing and drawing it or if someone else will be taking over the writing chores.
ど助平

daemon

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #320 on: March 22, 2024, 08:03:16 AM »
Goku stays Goku means nothing. Super Goku acts nothing like classic Goku. I don't know what "Goku stays Goku" even means.

 :whatisthis

He just wants to fight and train to get more powerful and that's about it.  With Vegeta there ends up being a reason beyond just "gotta get stronger" in these arcs.

He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot. Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.

They gave him the homer simpson treatment. To a guy with faults to an absolute moron. Hell, the new super chapters essentially say he never kissed his wife and doesn't remember he has a grandaughter. Extremely stupid stuff. He was simple and naive, not effin dumb&dumber.

I also reject the Goku was a bad dad label. Goku is an excellent dad. Unfortunately he sacrifices his life ahead of his family twice in the story. Hell, sacrifices his life for Gohan fighting Radditz. The second time he sacrifices his life to save everyone from Cell blowing himself up. He was stuck on Namek and later in space. Itís not Gokuís fault certain incidents happen to make him separated from his family. When he is there heís the most supportive dad imaginable and as a kid I looked up to him as a great dad that pushed Gohanís (my favorite character) potential. Goku not training his granddaughter in martial arts. Unthinkable.

They took the absent irresponsible parent memes and made em canon for some reason. TFS goku is now canon.

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #321 on: March 22, 2024, 08:24:18 AM »
He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot.

Yup...Goku gonna Goku.  :doge

Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.

When was his training partner Krillin in Z?  I mostly recall him in the hyperbolic chamber with Gohan during the Cell arc and the like.

I see no difference between Goku in Z and Goku in Super.  But point is that in those two Super manga arcs, Goku had zero character growth, while Vegeta did, and the comic was self-aware about it via a quip from Whis.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 08:30:24 AM by bork »
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Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #322 on: March 22, 2024, 09:56:58 AM »
He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot.

Yup...Goku gonna Goku.  :doge

Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.

When was his training partner Krillin in Z?  I mostly recall him in the hyperbolic chamber with Gohan during the Cell arc and the like.

I see no difference between Goku in Z and Goku in Super.  But point is that in those two Super manga arcs, Goku had zero character growth, while Vegeta did, and the comic was self-aware about it via a quip from Whis.

Goku was naive and sheltered. He was a boy raised in the mountains by himself after Gohan died. He's not stupid.

IYKYK

bork

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #323 on: March 22, 2024, 10:31:14 AM »
He takes nothing seriously. He's a complete idiot.

Yup...Goku gonna Goku.  :doge

Goku in the past had strict ideas of what a warrior was. Goku in Super is like "whatever". Goku in DBZ says there's more to being a warrior than strength. His main training partner is Krillin, who isn't as strong as him. DBS he only seeks strong opponents or cares about an opponents strength. He's a Flanderized Goku that has lost his essence. Still love him but he's not the Goku I look up to.

When was his training partner Krillin in Z?  I mostly recall him in the hyperbolic chamber with Gohan during the Cell arc and the like.

I see no difference between Goku in Z and Goku in Super.  But point is that in those two Super manga arcs, Goku had zero character growth, while Vegeta did, and the comic was self-aware about it via a quip from Whis.

Goku was naive and sheltered. He was a boy raised in the mountains by himself after Gohan died. He's not stupid.

Frankly, all the Saiyans are kinda "stupid" in the sense that they will value fighting over everything else.  To the point where instead of finishing off foes, they help them.  Like Vegeta with Cell and then Goku does this later in Super (spoilers so won't say any more).
ど助平

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #324 on: March 22, 2024, 04:31:57 PM »
The dubs changed some of the characterization, too. Like if Iím remembering right, even the old pre-funimation dub had Goku telling Krillin to spare Vegeta for some righteous reason. Then you read or watch the Japanese versions, and itís Goku saying he wants a rival and somebody fun to fight again.



 :rejoice

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #325 on: March 22, 2024, 07:53:21 PM »
The dubs changed some of the characterization, too. Like if Iím remembering right, even the old pre-funimation dub had Goku telling Krillin to spare Vegeta for some righteous reason. Then you read or watch the Japanese versions, and itís Goku saying he wants a rival and somebody fun to fight again.



 :rejoice

This is an oversimplified version. While Goku loves battles and fighting strong people he also follows his own code and has no mercy towards certain opponents. In original Dragon Ball he cares about fighting strong people and testing himself but he hates cruelty and takes things pretty serious from the moment Krillin dies at the hand of Piccolo. Iím not saying Goku is Superman but heís not dumb as rocks like Monkey D Luffy. Sometimes he does the righteous thing (laying down his life for his son and planet when Radditz attacks) but also the selfish thing (telling Krillin to let Vegeta go, giving Cell a senzu). Goku isnít righteous but he gives multiple people a chance (all of the entire crew are former villains of Goku from Oolong, Yamcha, Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta and now Buu, Android 18 and 17) but heís also willing to do whatís necessary if need be (turning Friezaís attack against him when he gave Frieza a chance, putting a hole through Piccoloís chest).

Once Goku grows up Goku is mostly serious almost all the time because the stakes are so high. Goku is a surprisingly deep character and isnít shallow or one-dimensional.

As it is, Goku in Super is not reminiscent of original Goku.

Nothing encapsulates this more than when Goku arrives on Namek.



THIS is Goku. Look at the tone. Thereís nothing like that in Super besides Goku Black Saga. Not some unserious dude that doesnít know what the stakes are and doesnít have the presence of a warrior, who chases being strong above ALL ELSE even his own family. They took one aspect of his character which used to be multi-dimensional and turned it into the sole aspect of his character.

Goku cares so much about family he destroyed the Red Ribbon army just because he wanted his grandfathers four star ball back. Goku loves family so he named his son after his grandpa and was willing to die to save his son from his brother. To think Goku wouldnít know who his granddaughter is much less train her in martial arts is not in Gokuís character.

The contrast between Goku in the final episode of Z and the majority of Super is night and day. Super Goku is a Flanderization of an iconic character. I still love Super but itís how I see it. :yeshrug

« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 08:30:10 PM by Himu »
IYKYK

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #326 on: March 25, 2024, 03:36:48 AM »
Sometimes YouTube recommends good stuff. Like somebody scanning a 16mm film reel of DBís ending and uploading it in 4K.




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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #327 on: March 25, 2024, 08:12:49 AM »
The dubs changed some of the characterization, too. Like if Iím remembering right, even the old pre-funimation dub had Goku telling Krillin to spare Vegeta for some righteous reason. Then you read or watch the Japanese versions, and itís Goku saying he wants a rival and somebody fun to fight again.

Very much this.  Wouldn't be going by the dubs, especially the older ones.
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #328 on: April 05, 2024, 05:25:38 PM »
Great video on Goku's character.

IYKYK

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Re: Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei
« Reply #329 on: April 12, 2024, 12:45:17 PM »
Exploring ways to rewatch the whole* series. Seems thereís no great ďofficialĒ source? Fans built their own copies using broadcast audio from home VHS tapes and fixing color degradation. Also some recuts, like Kai, but with original music and audio. Dragon Ball is brought down to 82 episodes (from 153). DBZ fan recuts arenít complete, that Iíve found anyway. Kai already cut 130 episodes of filler.

Itís honestly impressive how thorough the fans are. Some DBZ files are large for including six or so audio tracks. Iím only interested in the original audio but itís nostalgic to hear the Ocean dub.



 :lawd