US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[etiolate]

If he's not interested in discourse then you challenge him on that. You don't just assume that, and use it (very wrongly) to justify taking someone's right to speak or assemble away.

If you actually go to have discourse with him, then guess what? You challenge him, maybe even score a point on him, and you also take away the free reward of publicity from protesting him like an idiot. Golly, it works out both ways for you! If only people actually believed the BS they spewed enough to follow through on it.

But they don't so Milo keeps winning. It's not hard to figure out exactly Milo wants, it just seems hard for everyone to not give it to him.

[Rufus]

If he's not interested in discourse then you challenge him on that.

That's the trap sprung. The moment you give him legitimacy is the moment he turns around and uses it to be a disgusting shit at another opportunity. That's how the cycle works. Giving him any attention at all is the wrong thing to do, and so is believing that he or his audience will be swayed by 'scoring points' in a debate.

You don't just assume that, and use it (very wrongly) to justify taking someone's right to speak or assemble away.

His rights are fully intact.

[Optimus]

That's the trap sprung. The moment you give him legitimacy is the moment he turns around and uses it to be a disgusting shit at another opportunity. That's how the cycle works. Giving him any attention at all is the wrong thing to do, and so is believing that he or his audience will be swayed by 'scoring points' in a debate.

Oh, you mean like the college brats are doing every time he visits by throwing tantrums and getting violent?

and so is believing that he or his audience will be swayed by 'scoring points' in a debate.

His audience doesn't have the exclusivity on this.

[Joe Molotov]

Milo has a Q&A after every speaking session. You can engage him.

He also loves that dipshits get him canceled because it ups his fame and worth.

Time for folks to be honest: They protest to silence rather than attempt the Q&A because while they may argue "let their ideas be said and exposed", they're actually afraid that they'd completely lose any debate they attempted. So instead they protest, full of vitriol and hate, and hope that gets things silenced.

Also, Rufus, they keep banning him from platforms. Thoe whole point of deplatforming someone is take away all their speaking platforms. Getthefuckouttahere with that nonsense.

Milo already rolled around naked in a tub of pig's blood at a #DaddyWillSaveUs Gays for Trump event. How much more exposed do we have to let him get? 

[etiolate]

If someone goes through the process of having a speaking event on a state campus and you deny them their ability to assemble and speak.. Yaaaah rights are being denied.

You also have to/MUST realize that rights are backed by ideas, and the ideas precede the rights. If the ideas are devalued then the rights are next to be devalued. The idea of free speech, the virtue and value of it, is what backs up something like a first amendment. If you destroy that value then you taken away the very thing that backs the law. This is why people bring up free speech so much and why people are wary of an alarming anti-democratic sentiment going around.

[Rufus]

Oh, you mean like the college brats are doing every time he visits by throwing tantrums and getting violent?

That's unsolveable unless he spontaneously combusts from the force of hatred he's amassed so far. Showing him the door whenever possible is still preferrable to entertaining his attempts at building his brand. I've already said as much.

If someone goes through the process of having a speaking event on a state campus and you deny them their ability to assemble and speak.. Yaaaah rights are being denied.

I was merely being a pedant about the verb you've chosen.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even then... The 1st amendment protects you from the government denying you rights, not anyone else. But clearly, that's not where this is going. But, pedantry demands I make this edit, so...

[close]

[toku]

https://twitter.com/lilbthebasedgod/status/29302417221

[VomKriege]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

[Optimus]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Let's look at the positives, at least he'll accelerate breaking up the EU. EU is an undemocratic neoliberal scam that has destroyed the european south and has moved vast amounts of wealth and property to the richest nations in the union. Fuck the Euro, fuck free trade agreements, and fuck EU bureaucrats that have brought unspeakable misery and poverty to European people by spreading neoliberalism through that sham of union.

Having said that, the last nation that should have left the union is the UK which is far worse on every government policy than anything EU could have pushed.

[Syph]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

paywall amigo

edit: lol that was unintentionally worded with a double meaning hahaha

[Raist]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Let's look at the positives, at least he'll accelerate breaking up the EU. EU is an undemocratic neoliberal scam that has destroyed the european south and has moved vast amounts of wealth and property to the richest nations in the union. Fuck the Euro, fuck free trade agreements, and fuck EU bureaucrats that have brought unspeakable misery and poverty to European people by spreading neoliberalism through that sham of union.

Having said that, the last nation that should have left the union is the UK which is far worse on every government policy than anything EU could have pushed.

I'd be fascinated to hear your explanation as to how the EU is undemocratic.

[Optimus]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Let's look at the positives, at least he'll accelerate breaking up the EU. EU is an undemocratic neoliberal scam that has destroyed the european south and has moved vast amounts of wealth and property to the richest nations in the union. Fuck the Euro, fuck free trade agreements, and fuck EU bureaucrats that have brought unspeakable misery and poverty to European people by spreading neoliberalism through that sham of union.

Having said that, the last nation that should have left the union is the UK which is far worse on every government policy than anything EU could have pushed.

I'd be fascinated to hear your explanation as to how the EU is undemocratic.

It's basically controlled by the Council which is a bunch of unelected dipshits. The parliament which just a front they use to pretend they have anything to do with democracy only decides on insignificant shit and once in a while bitches about the Council's and its satellite organizations' decisions. Not to mention the numerous committees and institutions within it that control matters like the entire economies of troubled nations (troubles the euro created) that are full of bureaucratic neoliberal scum, also unelected.

[Boredfrom]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

[Optimus]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

[Raist]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Let's look at the positives, at least he'll accelerate breaking up the EU. EU is an undemocratic neoliberal scam that has destroyed the european south and has moved vast amounts of wealth and property to the richest nations in the union. Fuck the Euro, fuck free trade agreements, and fuck EU bureaucrats that have brought unspeakable misery and poverty to European people by spreading neoliberalism through that sham of union.

Having said that, the last nation that should have left the union is the UK which is far worse on every government policy than anything EU could have pushed.

I'd be fascinated to hear your explanation as to how the EU is undemocratic.

It's basically controlled by the Council which is a bunch of unelected dipshits. The parliament which just a front they use to pretend they have anything to do with democracy only decides on insignificant shit and once in a while bitches about the Council's and its satellite organizations' decisions. Not to mention the numerous committees and institutions within it that control matters like the entire economies of troubled nations (troubles the euro created) that are full of bureaucratic neoliberal scum, also unelected.

So a country like the UK is deeply undemocratic too then?
I mean you don't vote for the royal family, you don't vote for the PM and its ministers, you don't vote for the Lords.

The european council is formed by the heads of states by the way. Which are democratically elected. In many cases directly.
If you meant the commission, they're proposed by the council members (see above) and validated by the parliament (democratically directly elected).

The "omg the EU is sooooo undemocratic" arguments always make me laugh, because they're clearly made by people with zero knowledge on how the EU (and in many cases their own country) works in terms of government and legislation.

[Optimus]

Donald Trump's transition team have called EU leaders to ask “what country is to leave next” with a tone suggesting the union “is falling apart” this year, according to the outgoing US ambassador to the bloc.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b70c98a-d9a9-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Let's look at the positives, at least he'll accelerate breaking up the EU. EU is an undemocratic neoliberal scam that has destroyed the european south and has moved vast amounts of wealth and property to the richest nations in the union. Fuck the Euro, fuck free trade agreements, and fuck EU bureaucrats that have brought unspeakable misery and poverty to European people by spreading neoliberalism through that sham of union.

Having said that, the last nation that should have left the union is the UK which is far worse on every government policy than anything EU could have pushed.

I'd be fascinated to hear your explanation as to how the EU is undemocratic.

It's basically controlled by the Council which is a bunch of unelected dipshits. The parliament which just a front they use to pretend they have anything to do with democracy only decides on insignificant shit and once in a while bitches about the Council's and its satellite organizations' decisions. Not to mention the numerous committees and institutions within it that control matters like the entire economies of troubled nations (troubles the euro created) that are full of bureaucratic neoliberal scum, also unelected.

So a country like the UK is deeply undemocratic too then?
I mean you don't vote for the royal family, you don't vote for the PM and its ministers, you don't vote for the Lords.

The european council is formed by the heads of states by the way. Which are democratically elected. In many cases directly.
If you meant the commission, they're proposed by the council members (see above) and validated by the parliament (democratically directly elected).

The "omg the EU is sooooo undemocratic" arguments always make me laugh, because they're clearly made by people with zero knowledge on how the EU (and in many cases their own country) works in terms of government and legislation.

The European council is formed by ministers most of whom aren't elected in that position. They're representative of representatives representing the EU. They have no fucking accountability about anything they decide and every time they pass an unpopular decision they blame the faceless EU in their own countries. The European Commission btw is another one of those shitty institutions I was talking about full of unelected neoliberal scum.

The fact that you have convinced yourself that EU is democratic shows how much you miss the point of democracy. You think that bureaucrats with no accountability can be considered "democratic" because they have some distant indirect link with actual voters. That's some fucking dangerous way of thinking imo.

[Boredfrom]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

I dunno man, most of the people of my country would prefer living in Europe or the U.S. over here... Neoliberal cycle of mass immigration and all that but there is a reason why people leave their homes for a better life.

[Optimus]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

I dunno man, most of the people of my country would prefer living in Europe or the U.S. over here... Neoliberal cycle of mass immigration and all that but there is a reason why people leave their homes for a better life.

That's a pretty bad argument. Just because some countries are in a far worse condition compared to Western nations doesn't mean the people of those nations aren't still getting screwed.

 And yes there's a reason people leave their homes for a better lie, it usually has to do with Western powers screwing with those nations, either indirectly through neoliberal trojan horses like the IMF, less indirectly, coup d'etats and puppet governments beholden to Western corporate interests, even less indirectly, by feeding civil wars like for example in Libya and Syria, or full on invasions.

[Raist]

The fact that you have convinced yourself that EU is democratic shows how much you miss the point of democracy. You think that bureaucrats with no accountability can be considered "democratic" because they have some distant indirect link with actual voters. That's some fucking dangerous way of thinking imo.

So again, by this standard, no country can be considered a democracy, and the EU would not be any more ran by bureaucrats with no accountability than any of its member states are.

[Atramental]

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a52301/trump-evict-press-white-house/

 

[Great Rumbler]

Remember when Republicans complained all the time about Obama "acting like a king"?

[Optimus]

The fact that you have convinced yourself that EU is democratic shows how much you miss the point of democracy. You think that bureaucrats with no accountability can be considered "democratic" because they have some distant indirect link with actual voters. That's some fucking dangerous way of thinking imo.

So again, by this standard, no country can be considered a democracy, and the EU would not be any more ran by bureaucrats with no accountability than any of its member states are.

By this standard most countries are considered democracies. You're purposely ignoring the extra steps there for EU officials, the lack of accountability, EU being purposely complicated, the role of the European Parliament as a front for EU's undemocratic procedures and the shady institutions that decide on important matters.

Let's say that someone doesn't like that two-faced weasel Juncker, who do they vote for? Who do they vote against? What about Dijsselbloem? Who do they vote for? Who do they vote against? Why is the Eurogroup deciding on other countries legislation (as in, blackmail troubled countries on enforcing neoliberal legislation and austerity)? The average EU citizen has no fucking idea how to even begin to answer these questions because that's what the EU scumbags want.

[chronovore]

It's not a perfect article, but this rang true for me:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-rust-belt-whips-and-snaps-after-eight-years-of-obama/2017/01/13/85052ed8-d835-11e6-9a36-1d296534b31e_story.html

To my ear, it seemed more and more this election cycle disenfranchised was the word used in popular media for white folk, while people of color, religious minorities, queers, were marginalized. Both are injustices, but of different kinds. Notice, though, how both words reinforce the idea that the white normative family is at the center, endowed with an inalienable right to privilege. An inevitable reaction to either condition, disenfranchisement or marginalization, is bitterness, but here, too, the bitterness is of a different kind. It feels different to be stripped of entitlement than it does to be denied title. For eight years, the fact of President Obama, of the Obamas, crumbled the margin/center distinction. The fact that Obama did presidential, did family man, did ideas man, did oratory, better than his recent predecessors deepened the sense of white dislocation.

[chronovore]

By the way, I'm fearful for what will happen when the pan-resistant superbugs start spreading in earnest; Trump is not a man who takes individual freedom of others particularly seriously. Enjoy the FEMA camps!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/superbug-resistant-every-available-antibiotic-u-s-kills-nevada-woman/

Once the bugs get to Japan, I'll be in an internment camp as well, because every Japanese citizen "knows" all the bad stuff here is brought in by filthy foreigners.

[Atramental]

This is all leading up to Stephen King's "The Stand" isn't it? 

[Boredfrom]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

I dunno man, most of the people of my country would prefer living in Europe or the U.S. over here... Neoliberal cycle of mass immigration and all that but there is a reason why people leave their homes for a better life.

That's a pretty bad argument. Just because some countries are in a far worse condition compared to Western nations doesn't mean the people of those nations aren't still getting screwed.

 And yes there's a reason people leave their homes for a better lie, it usually has to do with Western powers screwing with those nations, either indirectly through neoliberal trojan horses like the IMF, less indirectly, coup d'etats and puppet governments beholden to Western corporate interests, even less indirectly, by feeding civil wars like for example in Libya and Syria, or full on invasions.

Then again maybe you should come to that countries if for perspective. You get fucked in the ass? People get fucked with a knife in other parts. I understand that other nation problems are pretty valid on their own but is also hilarious when assholes like Trump say shit like "Mexico is taking advantage of you, like China or Japan".

The rethoric you are saying, while not entirely untrue or without points, gets difficult to cheer when you mention that you are finding positive that a populist demagogue with temper screws economic stability because perceived slights.

The fact that the west is getting their taste of their own medicine is a pretty Pyrrhic victory  when you live in a country that is affected directly by this kind of shit without direct involvement

[Optimus]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

I dunno man, most of the people of my country would prefer living in Europe or the U.S. over here... Neoliberal cycle of mass immigration and all that but there is a reason why people leave their homes for a better life.

That's a pretty bad argument. Just because some countries are in a far worse condition compared to Western nations doesn't mean the people of those nations aren't still getting screwed.

 And yes there's a reason people leave their homes for a better lie, it usually has to do with Western powers screwing with those nations, either indirectly through neoliberal trojan horses like the IMF, less indirectly, coup d'etats and puppet governments beholden to Western corporate interests, even less indirectly, by feeding civil wars like for example in Libya and Syria, or full on invasions.

Then again maybe you should come to that countries if for perspective. You get fucked in the ass? People get fucked with a knife in other parts. I understand that other nation problems are pretty valid on their own but is also hilarious when assholes like Trump say shit like "Mexico is taking advantage of you, like China or Japan".

The rethoric you are saying, while not entirely untrue or without points, gets difficult to cheer when you mention that you are finding positive that a populist demagogue with temper screws economic stability because perceived slights.

The fact that the west is getting their taste of their own medicine is a pretty Pyrrhic victory  when you live in a country that is affected directly by this kind of shit without direct involvement

First of all, I never defended the bullshit Trump has said, the man is a clown. Second, if you think Trump is affecting these countries with his bullshit you need to have a less shallow view of politics. Most of these countries have been affected by neoliberal policies far, FAR worse than anything Trump could have said while snakes like Obama are calling them their friends and allies. Take Mexico you mentioned as an example, who ruined the country, Trump with his bullshit or the fact that the country has been an IMF hostage since the 80's destroying Mexico's society and decimating its middle class foundations with austerity and neoliberal "solutions" to a ever worsening economy? (SHOCKING, neoliberal measures destroy economies?!?!?!) Not to mention NAFTA that further obliterated what was left while rising prices and creating the need for salaries to remain low and labor rights non-existent so that the corporate scum can have cheap wage slaves.

Maybe I'm missing your point, because if you really think that that idiot's populist crap is the real problem with many of these countries, I don't know what to say to you.

[Optimus]

Oh and btw, liberals I present to you your political hero, Barack Obama, I'm sure you'll find some excuse to explain his actions, once again:

Obama Opens NSA’s Vast Trove of Warrantless Data to Entire Intelligence Community, Just in Time for Trump

[Optimus]

You know exactly to which people here I'm talking to.

[Boredfrom]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

I dunno man, most of the people of my country would prefer living in Europe or the U.S. over here... Neoliberal cycle of mass immigration and all that but there is a reason why people leave their homes for a better life.

That's a pretty bad argument. Just because some countries are in a far worse condition compared to Western nations doesn't mean the people of those nations aren't still getting screwed.

 And yes there's a reason people leave their homes for a better lie, it usually has to do with Western powers screwing with those nations, either indirectly through neoliberal trojan horses like the IMF, less indirectly, coup d'etats and puppet governments beholden to Western corporate interests, even less indirectly, by feeding civil wars like for example in Libya and Syria, or full on invasions.

Then again maybe you should come to that countries if for perspective. You get fucked in the ass? People get fucked with a knife in other parts. I understand that other nation problems are pretty valid on their own but is also hilarious when assholes like Trump say shit like "Mexico is taking advantage of you, like China or Japan".

The rethoric you are saying, while not entirely untrue or without points, gets difficult to cheer when you mention that you are finding positive that a populist demagogue with temper screws economic stability because perceived slights.

The fact that the west is getting their taste of their own medicine is a pretty Pyrrhic victory  when you live in a country that is affected directly by this kind of shit without direct involvement

First of all, I never defended the bullshit Trump has said, the man is a clown. Second, if you think Trump is affecting these countries with his bullshit you need to have a less shallow view of politics. Most of these countries have been affected by neoliberal policies far, FAR worse than anything Trump could have said while snakes like Obama are calling them their friends and allies. Take Mexico you mentioned as an example, who ruined the country, Trump with his bullshit or the fact that the country has been an IMF hostage since the 80's destroying Mexico's society and decimating its middle class foundations with austerity and neoliberal "solutions" to a ever worsening economy? (SHOCKING, neoliberal measures destroy economies?!?!?!) Not to mention NAFTA that further obliterated what was left while rising prices and creating the need for salaries to remain low and labor rights non-existent so that the corporate scum can have cheap wage slaves.

Maybe I'm missing your point, because if you really think that that idiot's populist crap is the real problem with many of these countries, I don't know what to say to you.

Like I said, is not that I don't agree that neoliberal policies fucked a lot of this countries, but that you are somehow minimizing Trump shit talking because "at least is fucking the neoliberal agenda. How people here in Mexico benefits in having the peso falling every time Trump shit on us? We should be happy he doesn't like the IMF like most people here?

I'm just saying, you are right that this countries problems are not only about populist demagogues like Trump, but he is not making things better by being a clown that mocks the things you hate.

[Take My Breh Away]

https://twitter.com/jtlevy/status/820672266711212032

[Optimus]

I think your "positives" about Trump speaking shit seem to be negatives for most people that would prefer stability.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means. It's the slow and methodical depredation of our labor rights, salaries, dignity, privacy, even freedom in exchange for a perceived stability people like you think they have until they become part of the growing number of middle class that got screwed. Go tell that stability bullshit to a prison slave, or a middle class American that works three part time jobs that pay nothing, or a patient that has to pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for a drug that costs nothing because that piece of shit Cory Booker took 250k+ dollars in donations.

I dunno man, most of the people of my country would prefer living in Europe or the U.S. over here... Neoliberal cycle of mass immigration and all that but there is a reason why people leave their homes for a better life.

That's a pretty bad argument. Just because some countries are in a far worse condition compared to Western nations doesn't mean the people of those nations aren't still getting screwed.

 And yes there's a reason people leave their homes for a better lie, it usually has to do with Western powers screwing with those nations, either indirectly through neoliberal trojan horses like the IMF, less indirectly, coup d'etats and puppet governments beholden to Western corporate interests, even less indirectly, by feeding civil wars like for example in Libya and Syria, or full on invasions.

Then again maybe you should come to that countries if for perspective. You get fucked in the ass? People get fucked with a knife in other parts. I understand that other nation problems are pretty valid on their own but is also hilarious when assholes like Trump say shit like "Mexico is taking advantage of you, like China or Japan".

The rethoric you are saying, while not entirely untrue or without points, gets difficult to cheer when you mention that you are finding positive that a populist demagogue with temper screws economic stability because perceived slights.

The fact that the west is getting their taste of their own medicine is a pretty Pyrrhic victory  when you live in a country that is affected directly by this kind of shit without direct involvement

First of all, I never defended the bullshit Trump has said, the man is a clown. Second, if you think Trump is affecting these countries with his bullshit you need to have a less shallow view of politics. Most of these countries have been affected by neoliberal policies far, FAR worse than anything Trump could have said while snakes like Obama are calling them their friends and allies. Take Mexico you mentioned as an example, who ruined the country, Trump with his bullshit or the fact that the country has been an IMF hostage since the 80's destroying Mexico's society and decimating its middle class foundations with austerity and neoliberal "solutions" to a ever worsening economy? (SHOCKING, neoliberal measures destroy economies?!?!?!) Not to mention NAFTA that further obliterated what was left while rising prices and creating the need for salaries to remain low and labor rights non-existent so that the corporate scum can have cheap wage slaves.

Maybe I'm missing your point, because if you really think that that idiot's populist crap is the real problem with many of these countries, I don't know what to say to you.

Like I said, is not that I don't agree that neoliberal policies fucked a lot of this countries, but that you are somehow minimizing Trump shit talking because "at least is fucking the neoliberal agenda. How people here in Mexico benefits in having the peso falling every time Trump shit on us? We should be happy he doesn't like the IMF like most people here?

I'm just saying, you are right that this countries problems are not only about populist demagogues like Trump, but he is not making things better by being a clown that mocks the things you hate.

You should be happy because he's dumb enough that after his presidency American influence will most probably detiorate and that's great for any nations south the US border. The fact that he's against NAFTA is also very positive for Mexico if he's actually against it.

These are positives, in no way these positives cancel the fact that he's a demagogic clown or outweigh his huge flaws. It's OK to find positives even in the worst situations, no one says these positives make the situation good and yes, we're certainly allowed to mention them. So I have to wonder, what's the point of these posts?

[Nola]

Your broad stroke ranting is particularly insufferable today.

[Optimus]

Your broad stroke ranting is particularly insufferable today.

   Btw replying to other posters is ranting now? You must be extra annoyed by the NSA story today. Quick, make an excuse!

[Nola]

Your broad stroke ranting is particularly insufferable today.

   Btw replying to other posters is ranting now? You must be extra annoyed by the NSA story today. Quick, make an excuse!

For someone that spends an unhealthy amount of time deriding GAF and their tendency to argue by way of assumptive psychoanalyzing and shaming/well-poisoning of out-group think, you really love using the same framework in your own interactions.

Surely that irony isn't lost on you?

[benjipwns]

If someone goes through the process of having a speaking event on a state campus and you deny them their ability to assemble and speak.. Yaaaah rights are being denied.

I was merely being a pedant about the verb you've chosen.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even then... The 1st amendment protects you from the government denying you rights, not anyone else. But clearly, that's not where this is going. But, pedantry demands I make this edit, so...

[close]

It's the crux of the move to hold events at state schools, they have a legal wedge to use as a cudgel. 

The stupidity of the protesters is that these speakers (be they Milo, Coulter, Tom Tancredo, Salman Rushdie) get paid anyway and it's the people against them who wind up looking bad for shouting them down or being sexually harassed.

Every university has hundreds upon hundreds of speakers and events that don't even get attention in the campus newspaper let alone outside it, if there's even the threat of Ann Coulter speaking or Milo giving one of his godawful presentations, everyone loses their minds.

[benjipwns]

EU is an undemocratic neoliberal scam

spreading neoliberalism through that sham of union.

that are full of bureaucratic neoliberal scum, also unelected.

We know full well what neoliberal "stability" means

The European Commission btw is another one of those shitty institutions I was talking about full of unelected neoliberal scum

neoliberal trojan horses like the IMF

as in, blackmail troubled countries on enforcing neoliberal legislation

neoliberal policies far, FAR worse than anything

neoliberal "solutions" to a ever worsening economy?

SHOCKING, neoliberal measures destroy economies?!?!?!

[Coax]

You know exactly to which people here I'm talking to.

[toku]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z5Vo5pbvxKJ5XpfALZXvCzW26Cl4we3OaN73K9Ae5Ss/edit#gid=634968401

[Optimus]

You know exactly to which people here I'm talking to.

(Image removed from quote.)

I don't care it makes fun of me, that gif is a goddamn masterpiece.

For someone that spends an unhealthy amount of time deriding GAF and their tendency to argue by way of assumptive psychoanalyzing and shaming/well-poisoning of out-group think, you really love using the same framework in your own interactions.

Surely that irony isn't lost on you?

Compared to your well reasoned arguments where you're just whining and attacking me personally because I dared to criticize liberals? You're such a fucking hypocrite dude. Tell me, what kind of reply did you expect with this shitpost:

Your broad stroke ranting is particularly insufferable today.

[Rufus]

If someone goes through the process of having a speaking event on a state campus and you deny them their ability to assemble and speak.. Yaaaah rights are being denied.

I was merely being a pedant about the verb you've chosen.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even then... The 1st amendment protects you from the government denying you rights, not anyone else. But clearly, that's not where this is going. But, pedantry demands I make this edit, so...

[close]

It's the crux of the move to hold events at state schools, they have a legal wedge to use as a cudgel.

IANAL, but I don't think it makes a difference when it happens at a state school.

[benjipwns]

The short version is that a private school can exclude anyone they want without needing a justifiable reason, a state school (and even at times, a school receiving state-funding) being a part of the government is bound by the First Amendment.

Students certainly aren't, but they are generally acting to get the administration to do something such as blocking Milo before he appears; the shouting down/protests/etc. comes after this fails. Most school administrators adopt an all or nothing policy in response as they also don't have a duty to provide a platform for speech.

The way they get around that is by having student groups be the official invitee, organizer, etc. and the school simply provides its facilities to any student group for use blah blah blah.

Passing the buck.

[Syph]

HOLY SHIT
Peter Thiel considering bid for California governor


edit:

The short version is that a private school can exclude anyone they want without needing a justifiable reason, a state school (and even at times, a school receiving state-funding) being a part of the government is bound by the First Amendment.

This. And in this case the school was UC Davis aka public.

There was a highly deplorable case in Canada last month (this month?) however there was minimal recourse because it was a private school so while it was ridiculous behavior, it was legal.

[benjipwns]

California is unfriendly territory for a Republican – particularly a pro-Trump one. The president-elect won just over 30 percent of the vote there.

but not, arguably, a socially liberal/libertarian one...

Gray Davis and Jerry Brown are the only Democratic Governors of California in the last 50 years, and both had economic/fiscal platforms were based around balancing budgets/cutting government/making it more efficient and less bloated/etc. While the GOPers were pro-choice/pro-immigrant/etc. (until Pete Wilson decided he wanted to be President...otherwise think Arnold's social views for example)

Not to mention that the California Democrats love to shoot themselves in the foot in Governor's races by running people who can only win SF and LA.

[Syph]

California is unfriendly territory for a Republican – particularly a pro-Trump one. The president-elect won just over 30 percent of the vote there.

but not, arguably, a socially liberal/libertarian one...

Gray Davis and Jerry Brown are the only Democratic Governors of California in the last 50 years, and both had economic/fiscal platforms were based around balancing budgets/cutting government/making it more efficient and less bloated/etc. While the GOPers were pro-choice/pro-immigrant/etc. (until Pete Wilson decided he wanted to be President...otherwise think Arnold's social views for example)

Not to mention that the California Democrats love to shoot themselves in the foot in Governor's races by running people who can only win SF and LA.

Thiel vs. Newsom. While I wouldn't bet on a Thiel victory this early, at least it has the potential to actual result in some debate. Thiel's a pretty smart guy; it would be interesting to see someone employ Trump-style unconventional tactics but in a more measured, eloquent way.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/ABC10Frances/status/820105958386872324

need a new chant

[Syph]

#brave #courage #powerful

[Nola]

You know exactly to which people here I'm talking to.

(Image removed from quote.)

I don't care it makes fun of me, that gif is a goddamn masterpiece.

For someone that spends an unhealthy amount of time deriding GAF and their tendency to argue by way of assumptive psychoanalyzing and shaming/well-poisoning of out-group think, you really love using the same framework in your own interactions.

Surely that irony isn't lost on you?

Compared to your well reasoned arguments where you're just whining and attacking me personally because I dared to criticize liberals? You're such a fucking hypocrite dude. Tell me, what kind of reply did you expect with this shitpost:

Your broad stroke ranting is particularly insufferable today.

That response and your recent portfolio would fit well in the GAF moderator community if you just exchanged your dogma for theirs. You should consider applying!

Make a continuation of unsubstantiated assertions while injecting antagonistic, demeaning and passive-aggressive lines aimed at anyone that doesn't share your POV for pages on end.

When that behavior is ridiculed, call foul and declare it a "personal attack" and that "they" are being the intolerant ones.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I mean I don't know what you want me to argue? A little over a month ago Trump was the product entirely of identity politics pushed onto the American public through an organized media campaign and rich liberal elites. I tried to have a more substantive conversation about it but you weren't having it. Now he is the product of what you consider neoliberalism(which at this point almost seems to umbrella anyone that accepts the idea of comparative advantage having the possibility of being beneficial). And while I don't personally disagree that in a broad sense, aspects of globalization have likely fostered resentments, that along with other contributing factors(recession, immigration, technological growth, hegemony wrangling, wage stagnation, M.E. turmoil, cultural divisions, education, media, political policies, economic market shifts etc.), have likely helped give rise to these populist movements throughout the world. To have this conversation IMO requires the capacity to do more then talk in broad strokes using terms you are not defining well to your audience, and then declaring anyone not seeing your vague POV as stupid or not seeing the truth. Or more recently attaching negative psychoanalysis to them, lumping them into caricatures you have created and asserting you don't have to explain yourself on the topic further because of that.

[close]

[benjipwns]

look at these unelected neoliberal cucks laughing it up

[benjipwns]

press play before reading please:

He was appointed High Sheriff of Gloucestershire for 1818–19.

In August 1818 he bought Lord Portarlington’s seat in Parliament for £4,000

RICARDO: UN-ELECTED

was appointed to a post as commissioner of customs in Scotland

SMITH: UN-ELECTED

VOTE LEAVE

[Boredfrom]

Trump again shit talks a automobile company because Mexico. The peso takes a hit. Everything rises again.

I suppose I should see the positive, I need to play less video games.

[Optimus]

You know exactly to which people here I'm talking to.

(Image removed from quote.)

I don't care it makes fun of me, that gif is a goddamn masterpiece.

For someone that spends an unhealthy amount of time deriding GAF and their tendency to argue by way of assumptive psychoanalyzing and shaming/well-poisoning of out-group think, you really love using the same framework in your own interactions.

Surely that irony isn't lost on you?

Compared to your well reasoned arguments where you're just whining and attacking me personally because I dared to criticize liberals? You're such a fucking hypocrite dude. Tell me, what kind of reply did you expect with this shitpost:

Your broad stroke ranting is particularly insufferable today.

That response and your recent portfolio would fit well in the GAF moderator community if you just exchanged your dogma for theirs. You should consider applying!

Make a continuation of unsubstantiated assertions while injecting antagonistic, demeaning and passive-aggressive lines aimed at anyone that doesn't share your POV for pages on end.

When that behavior is ridiculed, call foul and declare it a "personal attack" and that "they" are being the intolerant ones.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I mean I don't know what you want me to argue? A little over a month ago Trump was the product entirely of identity politics pushed onto the American public through an organized media campaign and rich liberal elites. I tried to have a more substantive conversation about it but you weren't having it. Now he is the product of what you consider neoliberalism(which at this point almost seems to umbrella anyone that accepts the idea of comparative advantage having the possibility of being beneficial). And while I don't personally disagree that in a broad sense, aspects of globalization have likely fostered resentments, that along with other contributing factors(recession, immigration, technological growth, hegemony wrangling, wage stagnation, M.E. turmoil, cultural divisions, education, media, political policies, economic market shifts etc.), have likely helped give rise to these populist movements throughout the world. To have this conversation IMO requires the capacity to do more then talk in broad strokes using terms you are not defining well to your audience, and then declaring anyone not seeing your vague POV as stupid or not seeing the truth. Or more recently attaching negative psychoanalysis to them, lumping them into caricatures you have created and asserting you don't have to explain yourself on the topic further because of that.

[close]

It's simple. I'm more than willing to discuss my ideology with anyone that is willing to discuss. People who act like dicks though receive the same treatment, you specifically. What exactly was unsubstantiated, that EU is undemocratic which I supported with both specific examples and arguments mentioning specific institutions within the Union, that Western imperialism and interventionism that both liberals and conservatives supported is responsible for many countries' suffering which I also supported with specific examples? Which are these "broad strokes" you keep talking about? The only unsubstantiated assertions here are yours.

I'm glad we at least agree on some things but where did I declare anyone disagreeing with my POV as stupid, please quote a specific post. As for "attaching negative psychoanalysis" to you I was just responding appropriately to your obnoxious shitpost and I'd do it again. Stop baiting people if you don't want for them to  "attach negative psychoanalysis" ...or whatever.

[toku]

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-15/trump-calls-nato-obsolete-and-dismisses-eu-in-german-interview

[Raist]

You're not making any supported argument, you're making the same statements we've heard a gazillion times from brexiteers.

"The undemocratic EU is governed by unelected neoliberal bureaucrat scum that have no accountability. Also this guy and that guy are cunts".

Once again, let's take the example of the UK since it's most relevant, no one ever voted for the Queen, or the PM (especially the current one), or her cabinet, or the house of lords. Good luck finding a government where every major figure has been directly democratically elected. Maybe Andorre, fuck if I know.

[OnlyRegret]

Why is American political """discourse""" just slinging various phrases and terms that you don't even know the meaning of.

Americans just like to yell libruls, fascists, socialists at everyone and anything.

[benjipwns]

Bad example, Andorre has co-princes one of whom is the President of France and the other some Bishop in Spain neither of whom lives in or is chosen by or has anything to do with Andorre. It results from an agreement to fight the Moors or something a thousand years ago.

On July 12, 1934, Andorra's monarchical system was challenged by an adventurer named Boris Skossyreff, who issued a proclamation in Urgel declaring himself "Boris I, King of Andorra". Though initially enjoying some support within Andorra's political establishment, he was ultimately arrested by Spanish authorities on July 20 of that year after declaring war on the Bishop of Urgell (who had refused to relinquish his own claim to the principality).

spoiler (click to show/hide)

In practice it's just ceremonial.

Switzerland or maybe San Marino might be better examples. The dual Prince Regents of San Marino only serve six month terms.

Even better, San Marino's Parliament has 60 members, for a population of ~35,000.

[close]

[Raist]

No one likes a smartass, benji.

[benjipwns]

No one likes a smartass, benji.

I'll wait for the complete data before I determine a null hypothesis.

[Optimus]

You're not making any supported argument, you're making the same statements we've heard a gazillion times from brexiteers.

"The undemocratic EU is governed by unelected neoliberal bureaucrat scum that have no accountability. Also this guy and that guy are cunts".

Once again, let's take the example of the UK since it's most relevant, no one ever voted for the Queen, or the PM (especially the current one), or her cabinet, or the house of lords. Good luck finding a government where every major figure has been directly democratically elected. Maybe Andorre, fuck if I know.

I asked you specific questions that are related to accountability and how democratic EU is. You ignored them. Do you know the answers to them because I and definitely the average European citizen doesn't.

The Queen is obviously not a democratic institution but thankfully she doesn't hold much power anymore, I don't even know why you mentioned her. Anyone that doesn't like the PM and his admin will vote for the other party and he and his party will certainly be held accountable for their actions. Simple. Easy.

 In EU that does not happen, no one knows about the decisions the Council makes, they're very rarely covered by the media and even if they do and don't agree with those decisions who do they blame, how do they vote them out? Is there some kind of procedure to at least know the voting history of someone given that they decide on national levels? I honestly can't even begin to imagine how to hold these politicans accountable, the whole system is so ridiculously complicated it's like a parody of democracy. Furthermore, there are so many steps from the voter to the Council or the Commitee or the Eurogroup or the dozens of other EU institutions that all accountability is eventually lost. It's as if EU was carefully designed to give the impression of democracy but be the antithesis of that.

[benjipwns]

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/voting-calculator/

It's the ministers isn't it? They're already elected at their national level. They're skipping an extra election step because you don't want the German representatives voting against the German government for example.