US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[TakingBackSunday]

this is incredibly depressing, christ.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Remember when the republicans were all worried that it was going to be the brownies that are were going to start a race war?

[Nola]

I support DACA but one thing that kind of makes me "ehhh" during this debate...all the people arguing that DACA hasn't taken jobs from Americans...how can you argue that while also pointing out that many/most of the 800k have jobs? Aren't those jobs that natural born Americans could have?

To an extent, yeah, I guess. Though every one of those people still need to eat, clothe themselves, buy phones, drive cars etc. Build businesses, pay taxes, clean floors, drive up consumption demand etc. So it's not really a binary thing. Frankly given what they pay in but are unable to collect, I wonder what the net economic impact actually is?

I think this has a lot more to do with the moral and ethical issues then economic though. You know, telling people that as Obama put it:

This is about young people who grew up in America – kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driver’s license.

[curly]

I mean sure, there's always in-party bickering on either side of the aisle, but the DNC is in complete freefall, a segment of supporters of the loser of the primary outright refused to vote for the winner in the general election, the minority of actual 'libs get the bullet too' extremists are getting airtime, and Democrats are losing any real legislative power beyond opposing the batshit nonsense Trump and co are bringing to the table. There's never really been as much open hostility between establishment Democrats and the younger, DSA-leaning groups.

Compare that to the right, who went through an identity crisis well before Trump was really on the radar during the dawn of the Tea Party, and they very quickly got in line behind the new doctrine, even if they weren't comfortable with it. Look at all the 'never Trump' Republicans that fell in line as soon as he won, and continue to vote in favor of his dumb bullshit and bend themselves in knots defending whatever asinine boondoggle he's gotten himself into this week.

I can't buy the idea that the right is unified. They just failed to pass trumpcare because there is no bill that satisfies enough of their party. They haven't accomplished anything legislatively outside of getting Gorsuch on the court. The donors are fundamentally opposed to Trump's economic nationalism, as are their leaders in congress.

If you go back to right before the election there was talk of the Republican party falling apart, fading into irrelevance, a thousand years of Democratic rule, etc. Congressional republicans were trying to disassociate themselves from Trump. Cruz pointedly declined to endorse Trump at the RNC. Now that they've won the narrative is overcorrecting to one where the Republicans always knew what they were doing.

The hostility between the DSA and Democrats is just because the DSA and likeminded groups are not as irrelevant as they once were. The left has always despised the dems, but they could be easily ignored because nobody cared about them.

[thisismyusername]

https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/904828553908420609

YASSSSSSSSSSSS QUEEN, CONTINUE TO BLAME EVERYONE BUT YOURSELF, QUEEN!

http://www.theonion.com/article/new-clinton-memoir-we-all-made-mistakes-you-made-m-56743

[zomgee]

 

[Mandark]

I can't buy the idea that the right is unified. They just failed to pass trumpcare because there is no bill that satisfies enough of their party.

They're struggling to get a tax cut bill together!

I mean, I still expect them to pass something, but passing a tax cut should be muscle memory for these guys.

[Phoenix Dark]

They'll get a tax cut eventually but you can kiss comprehensive tax reform goodbye. Especially when these stories about paying for it by taxing 401ks. Good luck bros. 

I wish Kara was here

[seagrams hotsauce]

I mean sure, there's always in-party bickering on either side of the aisle, but the DNC is in complete freefall, a segment of supporters of the loser of the primary outright refused to vote for the winner in the general election, the minority of actual 'libs get the bullet too' extremists are getting airtime, and Democrats are losing any real legislative power beyond opposing the batshit nonsense Trump and co are bringing to the table. There's never really been as much open hostility between establishment Democrats and the younger, DSA-leaning groups.

Compare that to the right, who went through an identity crisis well before Trump was really on the radar during the dawn of the Tea Party, and they very quickly got in line behind the new doctrine, even if they weren't comfortable with it. Look at all the 'never Trump' Republicans that fell in line as soon as he won, and continue to vote in favor of his dumb bullshit and bend themselves in knots defending whatever asinine boondoggle he's gotten himself into this week.

I can't buy the idea that the right is unified. They just failed to pass trumpcare because there is no bill that satisfies enough of their party. They haven't accomplished anything legislatively outside of getting Gorsuch on the court. The donors are fundamentally opposed to Trump's economic nationalism, as are their leaders in congress.

If you go back to right before the election there was talk of the Republican party falling apart, fading into irrelevance, a thousand years of Democratic rule, etc. Congressional republicans were trying to disassociate themselves from Trump. Cruz pointedly declined to endorse Trump at the RNC. Now that they've won the narrative is overcorrecting to one where the Republicans always knew what they were doing.

The hostility between the DSA and Democrats is just because the DSA and likeminded groups are not as irrelevant as they once were. The left has always despised the dems, but they could be easily ignored because nobody cared about them.

I don't disagree with any of this, and even Gorsuch barely counts as an accomplishment. I just don't think the left, centerists or far left, are as willing to put their differences aside to get behind a candidate as the centerist-and-far right were for someone as clearly unpalatable as Trump. For better or worse, the right has a much easier time throwing their principles in the garbage in order to win an election.

I'll admit I'm really jaded about this. In the back of my mind, there's a voice that whispers 'maybe the frustration that started at Occupy lead to Bernie and centerism is falling out of fashion and change now might somewhat materialize in actual politics' but I don't feel particularly optimistic that that is actually the case.

I dunno though. If the last year has taught me anything, it's that I truly have no idea what to expect. I hope shit shapes up in 2018

[FStop7]

 

[benjipwns]

A mouse ran into my foot at a urinal in a bar bathroom on Sunday night and I screamed like a little girl and kinda peed on myself a little. Should I be running for office, maybe?

finally, a platform that speaks to the common man

[benjipwns]

If you go back to right before the election there was talk of the Republican party falling apart, fading into irrelevance, a thousand years of Democratic rule, etc. Congressional republicans were trying to disassociate themselves from Trump. Cruz pointedly declined to endorse Trump at the RNC. Now that they've won the narrative is overcorrecting to one where the Republicans always knew what they were doing.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/henrygomez/republican-party-autopsy-author-goes-off-on-gop-as-trumps


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/donald-trump-gop-party-reform-220222

[benjipwns]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/formally-recognize-antifa-terrorist-organization-0

Needs 0 signatures by September 16, 2017 to get a response from the White House

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/declare-george-soros-terrorist-and-seize-all-his-related-organizations-assets-under-rico-and-ndaa-law

Needs 0 signatures by September 19, 2017 to get a response from the White House

  democracy whiskey sexy

[curly]

I mean sure, there's always in-party bickering on either side of the aisle, but the DNC is in complete freefall, a segment of supporters of the loser of the primary outright refused to vote for the winner in the general election, the minority of actual 'libs get the bullet too' extremists are getting airtime, and Democrats are losing any real legislative power beyond opposing the batshit nonsense Trump and co are bringing to the table. There's never really been as much open hostility between establishment Democrats and the younger, DSA-leaning groups.

Compare that to the right, who went through an identity crisis well before Trump was really on the radar during the dawn of the Tea Party, and they very quickly got in line behind the new doctrine, even if they weren't comfortable with it. Look at all the 'never Trump' Republicans that fell in line as soon as he won, and continue to vote in favor of his dumb bullshit and bend themselves in knots defending whatever asinine boondoggle he's gotten himself into this week.

I can't buy the idea that the right is unified. They just failed to pass trumpcare because there is no bill that satisfies enough of their party. They haven't accomplished anything legislatively outside of getting Gorsuch on the court. The donors are fundamentally opposed to Trump's economic nationalism, as are their leaders in congress.

If you go back to right before the election there was talk of the Republican party falling apart, fading into irrelevance, a thousand years of Democratic rule, etc. Congressional republicans were trying to disassociate themselves from Trump. Cruz pointedly declined to endorse Trump at the RNC. Now that they've won the narrative is overcorrecting to one where the Republicans always knew what they were doing.

The hostility between the DSA and Democrats is just because the DSA and likeminded groups are not as irrelevant as they once were. The left has always despised the dems, but they could be easily ignored because nobody cared about them.

I don't disagree with any of this, and even Gorsuch barely counts as an accomplishment. I just don't think the left, centerists or far left, are as willing to put their differences aside to get behind a candidate as the centerist-and-far right were for someone as clearly unpalatable as Trump. For better or worse, the right has a much easier time throwing their principles in the garbage in order to win an election.

I'll admit I'm really jaded about this. In the back of my mind, there's a voice that whispers 'maybe the frustration that started at Occupy lead to Bernie and centerism is falling out of fashion and change now might somewhat materialize in actual politics' but I don't feel particularly optimistic that that is actually the case.

I dunno though. If the last year has taught me anything, it's that I truly have no idea what to expect. I hope shit shapes up in 2018

I feel mostly similarly, maybe a bit more optimistic. I think for a typical Dem to win the presidency they have to have the charisma to paper over the contradictions in the Democratic party. The two parties cover such a broad political expanse that finding somebody acceptable to all on a policy basis is impossible (how do you fit Warren and Wall Street in the same party, or the anti-monopoly people and Google?) Obama and Clinton both positioned themselves as the candidate everyone could like, but Clinton couldn't do it in a convincing way. The good thing is that the other side is similarly dysfunctional, so you don't have to have your act together to win, just be slightly better than the other guy.

The intra-party battles don't really bother me because I see it as an indication that there is a tremendous amount of energy in the American left. Groups that are typically marginalized (DSA and assorted commies) or apathetic (the young) are becoming more involved, which naturally creates conflict because they have their own goals and views that clash with the Democratic orthodoxy. The right had a somewhat similar dynamic with the emergence of more radical groups willing to challenge the Republican party and far from sinking them electorally they've been the engine for victory in low turnout elections that Dems get slaughtered in. Fighting is good because it shows that people are engaged.

[Nola]

https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/904828553908420609

YASSSSSSSSSSSS QUEEN, CONTINUE TO BLAME EVERYONE BUT YOURSELF, QUEEN!

http://www.theonion.com/article/new-clinton-memoir-we-all-made-mistakes-you-made-m-56743

I am lost at what knot she is still trying to tie with this line of reasoning? Except in my mind basically making Bernie's case for him?


 She speaks about sharing basically the same underlying values as Bernie(and by trying to point out the Democrats do have recent examples proving that as well). Acknowledging the party needed to be leaned on toward better representing that value set. That his criticism and strategy had merit. Tapped into the important youth the party needs going forward...But he was wrong about the Democratic party. Wrong to want to try and shake things up to move the party closer to his value set she acknowledges needed to be nudged? That he should be proud of the party she just kinda admitted was struggling and needed that guidance 

[nachobro]

where in the book does she go over being such a shitty candidate that she lost to both a black dude and donald trump?

[benjipwns]

I wonder if it even gets into any of the campaign strategy stuff. The whole operation was premised on the idea that they needed to manage a few points here and a couple points there and not expend any resources beyond that. Which at least based on that other book pissed off Bill constantly especially since they kept him bottled up in hotels.

But you can't really get into that kind of stuff in only five hundred pages.

“In the past, for reasons I try to explain, I’ve often felt I had to be careful in public, like I was up on a wire without a net. Now I’m letting my guard down.” —Hillary Rodham Clinton, from the introduction of What Happened

For the first time, Hillary Rodham Clinton reveals what she was thinking and feeling during one of the most controversial and unpredictable presidential elections in history. Now free from the constraints of running, Hillary takes you inside the intense personal experience of becoming the first woman nominated for president by a major party in an election marked by rage, sexism, exhilarating highs and infuriating lows, stranger-than-fiction twists, Russian interference, and an opponent who broke all the rules. This is her most personal memoir yet.

In these pages, she describes what it was like to run against Donald Trump, the mistakes she made, how she has coped with a shocking and devastating loss, and how she found the strength to pick herself back up afterward. With humor and candor, she tells readers what it took to get back on her feet—the rituals, relationships, and reading that got her through, and what the experience has taught her about life. She speaks about the challenges of being a strong woman in the public eye, the criticism over her voice, age, and appearance, and the double standard confronting women in politics.

She lays out how the 2016 election was marked by an unprecedented assault on our democracy by a foreign adversary. By analyzing the evidence and connecting the dots, Hillary shows just how dangerous the forces are that shaped the outcome, and why Americans need to understand them to protect our values and our democracy in the future.

[Boredfrom]

Hillary really seems bitter about the primaries aftermath. If she is so proud to be a Democrat maybe she should think about how her party needs to actually win elections and not pseudo inspirational hashtags from shills?

[curly]

She's so mad

and so lame

[Boredfrom]

That Facebook shit is real? For a experienced politician seems unwise to post examples from Facebook.

That example of the ponies also seem to miss the point on itself. No wonder why she has the charisma of a robot.

[benjipwns]

IIRC, the 2008 campaign was a mishmash of her people, Bill's people and then "Clinton people." 2016 was more her operation based off of that experience plus the State Department.

One of the regular pieces of advice her campaign kept getting but avoided was to crush Bernie, O'Malley, Biden, etc. early and fast. Because that was a "Bill" idea. Whereas they felt it was best to not let them appear as equals like they thought they allowed Obama to. They basically tried the same thing with Trump at first even after seeing it not work with Bernie and even with all the material he was giving them.

The whole thing was about not spending resources you didn't need to after 2008's disaster. And going negatively after Bernie or even Trump was seen as wasting resources and elevating them at her cost.

[Boredfrom]

IIRC, the 2008 campaign was a mishmash of her people, Bill's people and then "Clinton people." 2016 was more her operation based off of that experience plus the State Department.

One of the regular pieces of advice her campaign kept getting but avoided was to crush Bernie, O'Malley, Biden, etc. early and fast. Because that was a "Bill" idea. Whereas they felt it was best to not let them appear as equals like they thought they allowed Obama to. They basically tried the same thing with Trump at first even after seeing it not work with Bernie and even with all the material he was giving them.

The whole thing was about not spending resources you didn't need to after 2008's disaster. And going negatively after Bernie or even Trump was seen as wasting resources and elevating them at her cost.

Thought it feels like her supporters where as aggresive as she seems to be right now. Her whole inner circle is also  notorious for being overly defensive and closed. If anything, was a obvious passive agressive shitfest.

[Nola]

That passage sort of gets at what bothered me with Hillary's logic in the debates. And somewhat her larger political strategy.

To steal her shirty fitness analogy...Why get so caught up and convinced that your best strategy was to lecture everyone that they should fall in love and defend your slightly tweaked version of the shitty overpriced L.A. Fitness membership, that half of them can't afford? While Bernie is articulating the value and efficiency of Strong Lifts and Trump is promising platinum Equinox gym memberships? Seems to be a weird, confused sales strategy.

The simple answer is she was thinking about inevitable victory and a general strategy geared to moderates based on the legacy of third way politics. But then don't go carrying that bullshit over into your supposed "naked" reflection novel.

Why not just make the honest case now? For incrementalism? Pragmatism? Third Way Politics? You know, the things she clearly signals she still believes in by insulting her debate partner's idealism. Clearly a not insignificant portion of the party disagrees with her viewpoint. So why fall back on the old habit of insulting the voice many believe in as a weak crutch that ultimately failed you the last two go rounds?

[benjipwns]

Thought it feels like her supporters where as aggresive as she seems to be right now. Her whole inner circle is also  notorious for being overly defensive and closed. If anything, was a obvious passive agressive shitfest.

Look, I mean, not to bring PoliGAF shit into this thread but many of those people we spent months crackin wise about were literally working for her campaign (even if as volunteers, etc.) and "enforced" the same groupthink mentality and hyperfocus on specific things through the discussion on GAF. This is the year we turn Kentucky Georgia Texas Utah blue! The endless linking to her campaign pages by Aaronology alone probably putting the site in the top five referrers. Then half of them who had suddenly shown up around 2015 up and disappeared.

They were mocking Trump (and before him Bernie) for spending time in Pennsylvania or Wisconsin or wherever because their "models" said the high D areas would be enough to defeat the rest of the state. Only, for whatever reason you want to ascribe, 2016 turned out to not be one of those elections. It was closer to many midterms in the way some of those urban vs. outstate fights went down than any of Obama's elections. Trump's and Snyder's (2014) and Bernie's maps looked a lot alike in Michigan for example.

And my favorite D primary map comparison (edit: to which i should add the 2016 general map to):


Side note: Looking for that in the old thread even though I looked up the exact date of the NY Primary before I went in was still a nightmare, good god there's pages of AiA rambling about Benghazi I blacked out

I'm sure I posted plenty of stupid stuff too as always. I mean look at this nonsense some dork posted:

One could expect that any gains Trump gets from anti-establishment/anti-trade/etc. voters who backed Sanders to be countered by Republican-leans who won't accept Trump. And Cruz has none of the crossover potential considering his standard conservative positions across the board.

Also, one shouldn't confuse the Sanders fanboys for the bulk of Sanders' support, anymore than one should confuse YAS QUEEN as Hillary's support. There's a lot of simply anti-Clinton, anti-politics-as-usual, etc. voting there. Maybe even more than there is true "left-wing" voting. It's a harmless protest vote against an believed inevitability. Most of those people will stick to voting D in November because it's less that they hate Hillary than they're just unenthusiastic about her but she's still clearly better than Trump/Cruz.

Also consider that a lot of Ron Paul's support did not consist of standard GOP voters. Especially in 2008 when he said fire doesn't melt steel beams in a debate and Rudy annihilated him.

Sanders can't be getting the support he does (essentially tied with Hillary now in national polls) without lots of regular D voters. You don't have to worry about those people abandoning the party just because he loses. The Ron Paul people were by and large never going to back the GOP nominee, especially Johm McCain, though less so Mitt Romney. Many of them even flopped over to Obama. Most probably didn't even bother to vote.

As I mentioned the other day I think this is playing a role in his increasing polling. Hillary's clearly won, so more progressive yet pragmatic voters feel they can now vote for Bernie in the primary and try to move the party in general left without harming her. And people who have already voted for Hillary can say they now support Sanders to pollsters as well.

Also one of my best Hillary jokes probably:

typical 1% tourist behavior

on a weekday no less

And Dufus...DUFUS...got thirteen likes for this:

real talk

hillary stans are a lot more weird than bernie stans

also we had just truly discovered H.A. Goodman

April 2016 ya'll

[benjipwns]

PARTY FOUL:
https://vimeo.com/231783786

The spot uses Ronald Reagan’s farewell address at length as he lauds the country’s diversity.

“If there had to be city walls, the walls had doors. And the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here,” Reagan says from the Oval Office, as diverse faces of Americans are shown. “That’s how I saw it, and see it still.”

The 30-second spots, placed by Democratic media firm GMMB and confirmed by Emerson, will run until next Tuesday...in at least the television markets of Denver, Colo.; Louisville, Ky.; Raleigh, N.C.; Las Vegas, Nev.; and Milwaukee, Wis.

talk about copyright infringement

[agrajag]

Brehs, you keep talking like that and you'll wind up being chained to a pipe with Jack Remington shoveling vomit in your mouth.

[benjipwns]

If we spent all our time worrying about avoiding Jack's tiny little outbursts of mild violence then we'd never get what we're all here to do accomplished.

[seagrams hotsauce]

I mean sure, there's always in-party bickering on either side of the aisle, but the DNC is in complete freefall, a segment of supporters of the loser of the primary outright refused to vote for the winner in the general election, the minority of actual 'libs get the bullet too' extremists are getting airtime, and Democrats are losing any real legislative power beyond opposing the batshit nonsense Trump and co are bringing to the table. There's never really been as much open hostility between establishment Democrats and the younger, DSA-leaning groups.

Compare that to the right, who went through an identity crisis well before Trump was really on the radar during the dawn of the Tea Party, and they very quickly got in line behind the new doctrine, even if they weren't comfortable with it. Look at all the 'never Trump' Republicans that fell in line as soon as he won, and continue to vote in favor of his dumb bullshit and bend themselves in knots defending whatever asinine boondoggle he's gotten himself into this week.

I can't buy the idea that the right is unified. They just failed to pass trumpcare because there is no bill that satisfies enough of their party. They haven't accomplished anything legislatively outside of getting Gorsuch on the court. The donors are fundamentally opposed to Trump's economic nationalism, as are their leaders in congress.

If you go back to right before the election there was talk of the Republican party falling apart, fading into irrelevance, a thousand years of Democratic rule, etc. Congressional republicans were trying to disassociate themselves from Trump. Cruz pointedly declined to endorse Trump at the RNC. Now that they've won the narrative is overcorrecting to one where the Republicans always knew what they were doing.

The hostility between the DSA and Democrats is just because the DSA and likeminded groups are not as irrelevant as they once were. The left has always despised the dems, but they could be easily ignored because nobody cared about them.

I don't disagree with any of this, and even Gorsuch barely counts as an accomplishment. I just don't think the left, centerists or far left, are as willing to put their differences aside to get behind a candidate as the centerist-and-far right were for someone as clearly unpalatable as Trump. For better or worse, the right has a much easier time throwing their principles in the garbage in order to win an election.

I'll admit I'm really jaded about this. In the back of my mind, there's a voice that whispers 'maybe the frustration that started at Occupy lead to Bernie and centerism is falling out of fashion and change now might somewhat materialize in actual politics' but I don't feel particularly optimistic that that is actually the case.

I dunno though. If the last year has taught me anything, it's that I truly have no idea what to expect. I hope shit shapes up in 2018

I feel mostly similarly, maybe a bit more optimistic. I think for a typical Dem to win the presidency they have to have the charisma to paper over the contradictions in the Democratic party. The two parties cover such a broad political expanse that finding somebody acceptable to all on a policy basis is impossible (how do you fit Warren and Wall Street in the same party, or the anti-monopoly people and Google?) Obama and Clinton both positioned themselves as the candidate everyone could like, but Clinton couldn't do it in a convincing way. The good thing is that the other side is similarly dysfunctional, so you don't have to have your act together to win, just be slightly better than the other guy.

The intra-party battles don't really bother me because I see it as an indication that there is a tremendous amount of energy in the American left. Groups that are typically marginalized (DSA and assorted commies) or apathetic (the young) are becoming more involved, which naturally creates conflict because they have their own goals and views that clash with the Democratic orthodoxy. The right had a somewhat similar dynamic with the emergence of more radical groups willing to challenge the Republican party and far from sinking them electorally they've been the engine for victory in low turnout elections that Dems get slaughtered in. Fighting is good because it shows that people are engaged.

I'd say the only real difference between us is my lack of faith in the ability of the left to parlay the energy of said 'young commies' into the ability to threaten to primary candidates into bending left the way the tea party did. That's a terrible run-on sentence, but I'm five deep and I can't will myself into articulating it better right now

[benjipwns]

There was that huge groundswell of Occupy Wall Street forever changing Democratic Party politics and encouraging Bernie to say someone should challenge Obama in the presidential primaries which he did four years later after Occupy had finally triumphed over the 1% and allowed a nobody like Bernie to enter politics finally: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/the-triumph-of-occupy-wall-street/395408/

[benjipwns]

Where I was at the time, this one boomer professor said, at a department meeting where someone had mentioned some students might want to go to NYC, that he truly believed Occupy Wall Street was the Spirit of '68 revived, polished and perfected into a truly democratic force that would usher in an entirely new way of practicing politics.

*up twinkles*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

contractually obligated to post:

A few years ago, Joe Therrien, a graduate of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, was working as a full-time drama teacher at a public elementary school in New York City. Frustrated by huge class sizes, sparse resources and a disorganized bureaucracy, he set off to the University of Connecticut to get an MFA in his passion—puppetry.

...

At one of Arts and Culture’s meetings—held adjacent to 60 Wall Street, at a quieter public-private indoor park that’s also the atrium of Deutsche Bank—it dawned on Joe: “I have to build as many giant puppets as I can to help this thing out—people love puppets!” And so Occupy Wall Street’s Puppet Guild, one of about a dozen guilds under the Arts and Culture working group, was born.

[close]

[Mandark]

The party's definitely moved to the left in the last decade. Not sure who or what to give credit to.

I do think seeing the GOP go largely unpunished after its obstruction of Obama has made it a lot easier for elected Dems to do the same with Trump. Similarly, I wonder if the ACA experience will make it easier for Dems to sign on to Medicare for All or some other single payer plan; if you're going to get hit with death panel hysteria for the market-based reform anyways, why not just go for it?

[Mandark]

Speaking of politicians going unpunished, the GOP as a bloc voted against putting any new regulations on banks and other financial institutions just a couple years after the crash, in the midst of the Great Recession.

And were pretty brazenly unafraid about how voters would react, and were vindicated. What the fuck?

[Rufus]

And heaved an "anti-(((establishment)))" candidate into the presidency. I don't even know. 

[seagrams hotsauce]

I gave chapo traphouse a chance cuz I like a bunch of people who listen to it but i'm sorry this fucking blows. fuck these guys

[benjipwns]

sorry about the peter schiff on joe rogan parts but he made the video so whatever they're short

spoiler (click to show/hide)

and the donald trump parts

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

E Rid
6 days ago (edited)
Schiff is an agent provocateur schill. A descendant of Jacob schiff, who was the main financial backer of the Bolshevik revolution, and created the central bank. He hates cryptocurrency because their plan is to crash the US dollar in favor of gold, and move on to confiscation.

He is against the very people who follow him. What better way to control them by leading the revolution.



[close]

[Mandark]

benji, I'm glad that your idealism is still so strong that you can post an eight minute video with expectations that someone will watch it.

[benjipwns]

you don't get to be a discussion driver without putting in the difficult work no matter what the personal cost

(it's really mostly about six minutes of clips of Trump during the campaign bashing the economy numbers and now as President talking about how great they all are)

thankfully, there's help coming for those who want to take shortcuts in their driving:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/09/05/what-even-is-verrit-the-news-source-endorsed-by-hillary-clinton/

https://www.theringer.com/tech/2017/9/6/16258710/verrit-hillary-clinton-news

[toku]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/905383515302264832

[Joe Molotov]

!

[TVC15]

Aide: Mr President, Hurricane Irma is extremely powerful and will hurt Florida badly!

Trump: Keep it down, can't you see I'm busy watching Fox and Friends



Aide: It seems Hurricane Irma is among the largest ever recor--


Trump: did you say LARGEST EVER?! (Image removed from quote.)

PD needs to get Trump on his BBC mailing list.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/905383515302264832

Aide: Mr President, Hurricane Irma is extremely powerful and will hurt Florida badly!

Trump: Keep it down, can't you see I'm busy watching Fox and Friends



Aide: It seems Hurricane Irma is among the largest ever recor--


Trump: did you say LARGEST EVER?! (Image removed from quote.)

you lieberals gotta always cut up his quotes to make him look silly, from his prior tweet:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/905383039517282304

Watching Hurricane closely.

He clearly meant that he is watching it in real time in the Situation Room and probably conducted extensive measurements using advanced satellites while checking with historical data inbetween the two tweets so the second one wouldn't be attacked by fake news. He even hedged his measurement by saying "looks like" instead of definitively declaring it so before he could complete his full range of measurements like any proper scientist.

[Mandark]

(it's really mostly about six minutes of clips of Trump during the campaign bashing the economy numbers and now as President talking about how great they all are)

Remember the Gallup poll right after the election where favorable perception of the economy dropped by 15% among Democrats and jumped more than twice that among Republicans?

Hell, remember when Obama's second term was consistently beating the job numbers that Romney promised as a candidate? It's all fun-house mirror stuff.

[benjipwns]

I thought it was extra funny because the first set has Trump making a whole lot of the criticisms that Schiff and others like him (libertarians, zero hedge bloggers who use fight club names, etc.) have made of the standard numbers for as long as I've known...you know all them already, the typical official unemployment rate is bullshit because who it doesn't count, etc., how the stock market has been inflated in recent years opposed to the regular economy because of the fed so pointing to it as how great the economy is doing is dumb (plus for other reasons), CPI is bullshit because of the substitution they do, etc. from the campaign trail (which I do remember some people trying to defend Trump as "at least he's calling out this bullshit" too despite everything else during the wave of YOU GOTTA VOTE GOP OR HILLARY WILL WIN that swamped libertarian circles like every election) and then it shows President Trump recently touting how the stock market is the highest it's ever been as the crowd goes crazy, and then he says unemployment is below something for the first time in forever, etc.

I didn't watch the actual Joe Rogan interview that Schiff's explanation is from that Schiff then edited in the Trump clips over but I think the point is those explanations which Schiff would have applauded, Trump now discards, it's like an extra level above the standard partisan flip if his supporters were actually taking in those criticisms. One part he includes he does mention that it's likely a part of that whole thing where the common dude isn't seeing this great economy and Trump calling bullshit on it earned him support from people who "felt" the story they were told was off, but I don't know if he goes on to discuss whether those same voters will feel the same way in 2018 or 2020 or just trust Trump where they didn't trust Obama. Or if Rogan loses interest and asks him about some Mayan ruins he saw on the internet.

Also Schiff looks like he's turning into a homeless man. Should have brought in Hannibal and some liquor so they could get hammered and debate Sam Harris together.

[benjipwns]

President Donald Trump agreed to a request from congressional Democrats to raise the debt ceiling and extend government funding through Dec. 15, according to sources familiar with a meeting he held Wednesday with congressional leaders. The package would also include relief funding for victims of Hurricane Harvey.

[Joe Molotov]

Then who was wall?

[Boredfrom]

I am lost at what knot she is still trying to tie with this line of reasoning? Except in my mind basically making Bernie's case for him?

It's really not all that complicated.

Sanders ran against the Democratic Party as a corrupt and useless organization while also running to be its standard-bearer. He basically threw everyone who fought hard for the policy wins we have been able to achieve under the bus. The titanic struggle to pass something as basic as the ACA is reduced to a corporate half-measure in his telling.

His arguments presented the entire party as rotten to the core, with Sanders as the only person who could save it. It's horseshit, and it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. It's the kind of thing that sounds great when you're a 19 year old who took his/her first poli-sci class in fall quarter.

It kind of telling that you dont realize how shitty for the third observer it sounds, like "We pass ACA, people consider it a half measure, but they dont now how it cost us. Ingrates".

Like, yes it was accomplishment and it was a probably a Titanic struggle, but there is a difference between being a pragmatisc and realist to be entitled about it that sounds like not ever trying to get a better stuff (even if is the actual intent of the party).

Most not political  involved people could care less if Hillary is proud of her party.

[benjipwns]

http://taxcutsnow.com/

 

[Brehvolution]

Have $20T in national debt, believe taxes are too high, then complain about the size of the national debt, brehs.

[Joe Molotov]

Cuz of the moochers.

[Human Snorenado]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ty-cobb-more-adults-in-the-room-trump-kelly

There's a lot to unpack here, so let's just go in order.

1. The President's lawyer in the Russia probe is named Ty Cobb, and yes, he's a descendant of the famous, racist baseball player of the same name. No confirmation on where present day Ty Cobb stands re: racism, but I mean he's working for Trump, so, you know.
2. That mustache appears to be both real and absolutely absurd.
3. There is a ramen restaurant owner that has devoted himself to investigating/trolling the Trump admin over Russia and I want to be his friend.
4. The ramen investigator sent (unsolicited?) fashion advice to Trump's personal lawyer (and figure of interest in the Russia investigation) Michael Cohen.
5. Ty Cobb is ornery.
6. Ty Cobb thinks that there need to be more adults in the room with the President and he considers himself one of said adults, and by comparison, you know what, he's probably right. Even with that fucking mustache.
7. Ty Cobb responded to a question from a Business Insider reporter at 1:30 am on his White House email account asking if she was on drugs.

People, I feel like everyone needs to go to their fucking rooms and be in time out until we, as a country, figure this shit out. Because I really can't take any goddamn more.

Ok. Thanks for your time.

...but really. That fucking mustache.

[Trent Dole]

[Brehvolution]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/facebook-says-it-sold-political-ads-to-russian-company-during-2016-election

Facebook officials reported that they traced the ad sales, totaling $100,000, to a Russian “troll farm” with a history of pushing pro-Kremlin propaganda, these people said.

A small portion of the ads, which began in the summer of 2015, directly named Republican nominee Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton, the people said. Most of the ads focused on pumping politically divisive issues such as gun rights and immigration fears, as well as gay rights and racial discrimination.

 

[Great Rumbler]

When etiolate finally comes back and sees that post he's gonna bury you under a mountain of L's, Breh.

[zomgee]

[toku]

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/905530315640160256

[Joe Molotov]

 

[thisismyusername]

Calling all Jacks:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/06/politics/hillary-clinton-memoir/index.html

Reasonable article from CNN saying what people that have followed Student Government elections and the like know: Politics is a pony-popularity-show and Clinton simply was unlikeable.

Boom, done. You can add other factors to it, but she simply couldn't play the popularity game and failed.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Not that she wasn't unlikeable, but she actually did win the popularity contest

[Human Snorenado]

It's still baffling to me that people are trying to reduce what happened to *one* (or even mostly one) explanation. It's obviously a confluence of fuckery that landed us in the darkest timeline.

Toss in your own ingredients, but to varying degrees we've already got a stew of this going:

-"unlikeableness"/fatigue syndrome from decades in the spotlight/high negatives/whatever you wanna call it
-Comey
-white people generally being awful
-idiots like thisismyusername wanting to vote in a magical happy funtime wonderland instead of being an adult and just voting for someone that's even 51% of what you want instead of actual Hitler by voting for a 3rd party or writing in Bernie or Tom Cruise or Violent Jay or whatever
-Russian fuckery

[Trent Dole]

-idiots like thisismyusername wanting to vote in a magical happy funtime wonderland instead of being an adult and just voting for someone that's even 51% of what you want instead of actual Hitler by voting for a 3rd party or writing in Bernie or Tom Cruise or Violent Jay or whatever

Jay/Shaggy 2020