Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6999052 times)

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curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10500 on: November 05, 2017, 01:49:57 AM »
so you admit you're a racist

Rise

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10501 on: November 05, 2017, 01:59:37 AM »
Wait, you guys are talking about a man who owns a restaurant near the Hardee's in Acworth, right?


Mathematician, anti-duck activist, Shoney's owner, and historian


a true polymath

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10502 on: November 05, 2017, 01:33:08 AM »
Why are you guys arguing about apathetic voters being swayed by hints of wrongdoing when ya'll know, after Trump, nothing the FBI or a congressional investigation turns up on a politician will be shocking anybody into changing their mind?

I don't get it. If Hillary won, that would be the standard we're used to. In this timeline, we're supposed to learn how to filter our pee so we don't die from radioactive water.

The problem is that segment that segment that could care less about getting swayed is a minority that holds considerable power because politics and gerrymandering.

warcock

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10503 on: November 05, 2017, 02:32:34 AM »


I take back ragging on adults watching this manchild tragedy during most of my adult life. That video is beyond genius.

All you plebs should watch the mark blyth lecture i linked and implant it in your memory so you can sound smart at dinner parties with your yuppie taco friends or your cats.  He accurately predicted the election and brexit months before they happened, certainly beats shillgaf antics, erudite forum street cred or baseless eloquent verbosity.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10504 on: November 05, 2017, 01:30:11 PM »
Pentagon: only ground invasion can destroy North Korean nuclear program
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/05/pentagon-ground-invasion-north-korean-nuclear-program

Reminds me of the military report on war with Iran, ages ago, which also basically boiled down to "are you stupid what is your problem stop it god dammit."
010

Valhelm

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10505 on: November 05, 2017, 04:05:48 PM »
we need to accept that there are many worse outcomes than a nuclear North Korea

Best thing we can do is take serious actions to convince North Korea that they don't need such weapons. Trump, because he's an idiot, is instead reminding the Koreans why these weapons can be useful.

Mollys Fruity Loops

  • Junior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10506 on: November 05, 2017, 04:51:04 PM »
Tony Podesta has apparently been arrested. (sealed indictment)  :ohhh
RESIS

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10507 on: November 05, 2017, 04:54:40 PM »
These Paradise papers

https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/paradisepapers/politik/this-is-the-leak-e866529/

Jesus the super rich need to answer for this.

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10508 on: November 05, 2017, 05:23:31 PM »
These Paradise papers

https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/paradisepapers/politik/this-is-the-leak-e866529/

Jesus the super rich need to answer for this.

Their answer just in : "Fuck you" :money  :success
ὕβρις

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10509 on: November 05, 2017, 05:36:06 PM »



stop it

Syph

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10510 on: November 05, 2017, 05:54:41 PM »
jack your real name is jesse?

OPEN LETTER FROM HILLARY FOR AMERICA 2016 TEAM

Quote
It is particularly troubling and puzzling that [Brazile] would seemingly buy into false Russian-fueled propaganda, spread by both the Russians and our opponent, about our candidate’s health.
XO

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10511 on: November 05, 2017, 08:07:59 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
stop it
That's not an uncontroversial opinion.

It isn't but it doesn't change the fact that large military action against the DPRK is probably unfeasible. Continuing to drum that tune in public isn't helping.
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Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10512 on: November 05, 2017, 08:08:47 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


stop it
That's not an uncontroversial opinion.

That last line is pretty nonsense. And reads like the false noble narrative shit Neocons used to beat the drum for Iraq(and tried for Iran). Their primary goal is clearly for self-preservation purposes. They(probably fairly rightfully) see long-range nuclear capabilities as the strongest defense for their regime from outside aggression.  Despite rhetoric to the contrary, they aren't irrational actors, they still value self-preservation first and foremost.

They also aren't idiots, they know America doesn't have the stomach for what it would take to end that process by force. Which would be a death toll rivaling(probably easily surpassing) Vietnam(and the looming threat of biological and nuclear weapons being used). North Korea also isn't going to try and invade South Korea. They likely use unification like Trump uses the wall with Mexico, a bullshit emotional play to speak to a domestic audience. Sure, if they could find a way to get it without much hazard, they wouldn't turn it down, but it was never the primary goal.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10513 on: November 05, 2017, 08:15:47 PM »
That's not an uncontroversial opinion.
Assuming you didn't intend the double negative, the implication that nuclear weapons will be used aggressively to achieve unification is wildly controversial.

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10514 on: November 05, 2017, 08:35:37 PM »
It's not so ludicrous an argument if you consider nuclear weapons as a diplomatic card and not as a tool in an upcoming conventional war of reunification (which is far fetched). As you said, the USA may reconsider its commitment if the hypothetical price to pay inflates to a nuclear exchange at some point in the future. And South Korea itself is apparently conflicted on the issue and has in the past been fine with trying "sunshine policies". I'm not familiar but critics pointed out that those overtures were really one sided, with the DPRK basically not having anything substantial to give in return.

Also I don't think the question of rationality is so binary. I don't believe the DPRK is a bunch of raving lunatics bent on blowing up everything the instant they have a bomb. However their policies and goals probably operate on some tenets that aren't purely rational, like the superiority of their ideology (a pretty common trait, granted) or some very optimistic assumptions about how they could be in the driver's seat of a future eventual reunification.
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VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10515 on: November 05, 2017, 08:45:16 PM »
Also with non proliferation as the supposed international consensus, the international community cannot exactly just shrug at the DPRK becoming a nuclear power.
ὕβρις

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10516 on: November 05, 2017, 09:03:13 PM »
Also with non proliferation as the supposed international consensus, the international community cannot exactly just shrug at the DPRK becoming a nuclear power.

They already are a nuclear power. Estimates of a minimum of 6 capable nukes to upwards of 60. They just lack accurate long-range capabilities to, for instance, reach all of the US.

We are already in a defacto nuclear deterrent relationship. And on North Korea's side they are not going to strike first unless they are truly convinced the other side is imminently striking. For one, they know both South Korea and America would ultimately prevail, and China would not protect them if they initiated an offensive strike without justification.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10517 on: November 05, 2017, 11:24:28 PM »
Also I don't think the question of rationality is so binary. I don't believe the DPRK is a bunch of raving lunatics bent on blowing up everything the instant they have a bomb. However their policies and goals probably operate on some tenets that aren't purely rational, like the superiority of their ideology (a pretty common trait, granted) or some very optimistic assumptions about how they could be in the driver's seat of a future eventual reunification.
I think that's fair.

The problem is the context here. In US political discourse, "[X state] is not a rational actor" is almost always the first part of a bait-and-switch where the author concludes that the US needs to launch a preemptive strike. You get this a ton with hawkish Iran punditry (they're religious fanatics so they don't fear death!) but it's been quickly repurposed for the DPRK from the usual suspects.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10518 on: November 05, 2017, 11:46:38 PM »
Also I don't think the question of rationality is so binary. I don't believe the DPRK is a bunch of raving lunatics bent on blowing up everything the instant they have a bomb. However their policies and goals probably operate on some tenets that aren't purely rational, like the superiority of their ideology (a pretty common trait, granted) or some very optimistic assumptions about how they could be in the driver's seat of a future eventual reunification.
I think that's fair.

The problem is the context here. In US political discourse, "[X state] is not a rational actor" is almost always the first part of a bait-and-switch where the author concludes that the US needs to launch a preemptive strike. You get this a ton with hawkish Iran punditry (they're religious fanatics so they don't fear death!) but it's been quickly repurposed for the DPRK from the usual suspects.
To be fair I do think Kim Jun-Un is more unstable then his father. While I don't think he will go to all out war I do think he'll do something incredibly stupid.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10519 on: November 05, 2017, 11:57:21 PM »
Also I don't think the question of rationality is so binary. I don't believe the DPRK is a bunch of raving lunatics bent on blowing up everything the instant they have a bomb. However their policies and goals probably operate on some tenets that aren't purely rational, like the superiority of their ideology (a pretty common trait, granted) or some very optimistic assumptions about how they could be in the driver's seat of a future eventual reunification.
I think that's fair.

The problem is the context here. In US political discourse, "[X state] is not a rational actor" is almost always the first part of a bait-and-switch where the author concludes that the US needs to launch a preemptive strike. You get this a ton with hawkish Iran punditry (they're religious fanatics so they don't fear death!) but it's been quickly repurposed for the DPRK from the usual suspects.
To be fair I do think Kim Jun-Un is more unstable then his father. While I don't think he will go to all out war I do think he'll do something incredibly stupid.

I think the actual danger here is(and while I think the probability of it happening is rather low, you don't fuck around when nukes are involved) that unlike Iraq(and maybe a bit more similar with Iran), where this player can quickly inflict enormous casualties in a very short span of time like North Korea can given the proximity to allies and American bases, this bait and switch rhetoric increases the chance and the stakes of the other side miscalculating your intentions. Which I think is why so many foreign affairs veterans are not happy with the way Trump has been playing this game. Or the fact that our State Department seemingly is bleeding out a lot of their talent as a matter of policy and spurring resignations due to those policies. So how much can you trust that recently established red-phone relationship to force cooler heads to prevail?

The point I would concede is that it probably isn't unreasonable to assume Kim Jun-Un would be more likely than the average dictator to misread those signals.

I'd get actually concerned when/if you start seeing a major movement of troops/Americans abroad or on the North Korean side.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10520 on: November 06, 2017, 12:10:36 AM »
Also I don't think the question of rationality is so binary. I don't believe the DPRK is a bunch of raving lunatics bent on blowing up everything the instant they have a bomb. However their policies and goals probably operate on some tenets that aren't purely rational, like the superiority of their ideology (a pretty common trait, granted) or some very optimistic assumptions about how they could be in the driver's seat of a future eventual reunification.
I think that's fair.

The problem is the context here. In US political discourse, "[X state] is not a rational actor" is almost always the first part of a bait-and-switch where the author concludes that the US needs to launch a preemptive strike. You get this a ton with hawkish Iran punditry (they're religious fanatics so they don't fear death!) but it's been quickly repurposed for the DPRK from the usual suspects.
To be fair I do think Kim Jun-Un is more unstable then his father. While I don't think he will go to all out war I do think he'll do something incredibly stupid.

Why do you think this?  NK is acting perfectly rational. 

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10521 on: November 06, 2017, 12:57:25 AM »
Also I don't think the question of rationality is so binary. I don't believe the DPRK is a bunch of raving lunatics bent on blowing up everything the instant they have a bomb. However their policies and goals probably operate on some tenets that aren't purely rational, like the superiority of their ideology (a pretty common trait, granted) or some very optimistic assumptions about how they could be in the driver's seat of a future eventual reunification.
I think that's fair.

The problem is the context here. In US political discourse, "[X state] is not a rational actor" is almost always the first part of a bait-and-switch where the author concludes that the US needs to launch a preemptive strike. You get this a ton with hawkish Iran punditry (they're religious fanatics so they don't fear death!) but it's been quickly repurposed for the DPRK from the usual suspects.
To be fair I do think Kim Jun-Un is more unstable then his father. While I don't think he will go to all out war I do think he'll do something incredibly stupid.

Why do you think this?  NK is acting perfectly rational.

Perhaps I misremembering my younger years but I don't remember Kim being so brazen as to assassinate someone outside his country and then make demands of said country.

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10522 on: November 06, 2017, 05:06:03 AM »
Perhaps I misremembering my younger years but I don't remember Kim being so brazen as to assassinate someone outside his country and then make demands of said country.

Didn't he famously had a couple of South Korean directors abducted to bolster the NK standing in film, among others ? Kidnapping random (not even persons of interest) foreign citizens on their soil with any regularity is pretty wild.

Also with non proliferation as the supposed international consensus, the international community cannot exactly just shrug at the DPRK becoming a nuclear power.

They already are a nuclear power. Estimates of a minimum of 6 capable nukes to upwards of 60. They just lack accurate long-range capabilities to, for instance, reach all of the US.

We are already in a defacto nuclear deterrent relationship.

I don't think it changes my point whether they're technically on the verge to / already a nascent nuclear power. The international community is forced to have a harsh stance on the issue. Ultimately you're right it will be accepted de facto but for now they have to go through the motions of preventing it. Otherwise we might just tear the NPT... Though there's an argument we should already because it's unsustainable.

The other problem with NK, as far as I can tell, is that it is unclear they really want to sit and negociate. I'm not sure it's Western bias to say they have a pattern, more so than most other countries (say Iran), of barely giving anything in return and outrageous demands on top of the fact there's not a lot of pressure points to apply. Even most academics seems to agree China doesn't have that much clout over the Kim's regime. Without being hawkish, we may be at a point where most of the diplomatic options are depleted and a credible threat of overwhelming force has to hang in the background. (Which contradicts my earlier message but heh... Not that I wish for it, esp. with Trump conducting.)
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 05:35:04 AM by VomKriege »
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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10523 on: November 06, 2017, 07:41:32 AM »
Cuckolded myself.

Also, that koi shit would be infuriating to me. I keep fish off and on.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 12:02:45 PM by kingv »

daemon

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10524 on: November 06, 2017, 09:56:21 AM »

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10525 on: November 06, 2017, 11:10:52 AM »
At least he wasn't wearing a beige suit.
©ZH

Nabbis

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10526 on: November 06, 2017, 11:13:36 AM »
Serves them right for creating anime.

daemon

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10527 on: November 06, 2017, 12:18:26 PM »
well, the point here is that the media said: "BAAKA GAIJIN TRUMP" then the actual clip shows Abe dropping almost all of it at once before Trump. Journalism at its finest

Mollys Fruity Loops

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RESIS

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10529 on: November 06, 2017, 03:07:02 PM »
Wow, fake news btfo. Turns out Trump is an amazing president.
©@©™

FStop7

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10530 on: November 06, 2017, 03:08:48 PM »
Donald Trump: #2 most popular politician with hungry koi fish after Abe


kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10532 on: November 06, 2017, 06:16:39 PM »
Something tells me that Rand Paul is rebelling against his evil fascist HOA.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10533 on: November 06, 2017, 06:22:19 PM »
Rand Paul is definitely that dude onNextdoor passive aggressively promising to light fireworks until midnight on Monday July 1st because there’s no law against it. And offering a free bag pipe concert at 9pm because his neighbor complained

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10534 on: November 06, 2017, 06:57:46 PM »
010


kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10536 on: November 06, 2017, 09:51:21 PM »
He’s definitely blowing his leaves on the other dudes property and the anesthesiologist came out and ethered him.

That said I don’t mind Rand Paul, I don’t agree with him really, but he always cites against everything. Might as well be a dem on the big votes.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10537 on: November 06, 2017, 09:55:54 PM »
When I found out this was his neighbor, I figured it was going to be something like one dude trimming branches on his property off a tree that was growing on the other side of the line. Friend of mine said there had to be a woman involved, but I don't think he appreciated the degrees to which upper-middle class white people will lose it over topiary. Also...


https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/927685286603173888

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10538 on: November 06, 2017, 10:00:17 PM »
The broken ribs were just the invisible hand of the market, and a real hand.
©ZH

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10539 on: November 06, 2017, 10:26:20 PM »
https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/927685286603173888

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man, this is some peak upper-middle class white people nonsense right here. :donot
dog

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10540 on: November 06, 2017, 10:44:42 PM »
https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/927685286603173888

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man, this is some peak upper-middle class white people nonsense right here. :donot

Lawns are very important to us.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10541 on: November 06, 2017, 10:47:50 PM »
Yearning for a fantasy utopia where private property is still a thing :neogaf



I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10544 on: November 07, 2017, 12:01:33 AM »
I bet there's a tax deduction if you're a grad student at Trump university
que

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10545 on: November 07, 2017, 12:50:36 AM »
 :trumps

Skullfuckers Anonymous

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10547 on: November 07, 2017, 04:27:30 PM »
I still can't believe Carter Page has a PhD.
野球

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10548 on: November 07, 2017, 07:51:17 PM »
Early results from Virginia look good for Northam.

Hope to hell this holds up just so Gillespie doesn't get rewarded for that campaign.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10549 on: November 07, 2017, 08:23:14 PM »
Early results from Virginia look good for Northam.

Hope to hell this holds up just so Gillespie doesn't get rewarded for that campaign.

seems like its been called
püp

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10550 on: November 07, 2017, 08:28:10 PM »
Looks like the HoD is 2 seats away from slipping.

What do ya know, super partisan unpopular presidents drive turnout in off-year elections. Who would have thought...

This is near presidential election level participation. Republicans are fucked next year.
010

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10551 on: November 07, 2017, 08:30:10 PM »
Curious what the tweets are gonna be like from China.

Wait, is Twitter blocked in China?
野球

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10552 on: November 07, 2017, 08:32:59 PM »
Early results from Virginia look good for Northam.

Hope to hell this holds up just so Gillespie doesn't get rewarded for that campaign.

seems like its been called

ROBERT E LEE YA LOST AGAIN


curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10554 on: November 07, 2017, 08:50:14 PM »
Curious what the tweets are gonna be like from China.

Wait, is Twitter blocked in China?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/928074747316928513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffivethirtyeight.com%2Flive-blog%2F2017-election-live-coverage-results%2F

Breitbart's headline was "establishment Gillepsie rejected," now it's "Republican Swamp Thing Gillepsie rejected" :lol

Doesn't account for the Dem wave downballot, but  :trumps

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10555 on: November 07, 2017, 08:59:51 PM »
If Gillespie had won, they'd absolutely be taking credit. "Again, the American people say no to sanctuary cities, MS-13 violence, and tearing down our heritage!"


Also, the Republican whip got unseated by a DSA member.  :whew

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10556 on: November 07, 2017, 09:02:13 PM »
We had a socialist and two transgendered women win seats tonight.

2018 is looking to be a Tsunami at this rate.

Phoenix Dark

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010

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10558 on: November 07, 2017, 09:25:43 PM »
Marshall also sponsored an anti-sharia bill a few years ago. Real piece of work.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10559 on: November 07, 2017, 09:33:22 PM »
Trump has another hundred or so characters to work with on Twitter and he still sounds like a mentally inept fuckstick
püp