US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[Nola]

If you just become a neolibcon shill then you'll understand when daddy government tells you all the leaks are tied to Russia then you'll see the light. Even if the timeline doesn't make sense. Even if there is no evidence. Corkboards are for crazy conspiracy theorists. We're not Alex Jones here. We won't show you the idea. We have experts like Mandy Patinkin and Carrie Matheson. And they rely on us, the resistance! (Buy Frito Lay!) Each of us has our own elaborate web---well web is a bad word. Webs have connections. No, we have an elaborate pollack painting of (what will be) two years of investigation in which we randomly cut out a piece here and there and then present it to our gallery of experts. (Who are congressman who need an aide to help open their e-mail.) Yet the experts really already know, but they don't know that you know. We aren't sure you have faith. Faith is what matters.

Gosh.

I’m still waiting for you to explain to the class how Seth Rich got part of the hacked DNC emails to Russia in early 2016, such as a professor representing the Russian government in spring of 2016 could entice Papadopoulos with their existence and eventually set up a meeting in Trump Tower with additional Kremlin representatives to discuss their efforts and coordinating them?

I’ll hang up and wait.

[Nintex]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Maybe Assange peddled some stuff to Roger, maybe Kim Dotcom hacked the DNC. We don't know but people investigating probably know.

Just entertain for a second that Trump is a Russian stooge. that would mean that:

- Trump's circus train of the 'best people' who are actually bottom of the barrel incompetent fuckwits (Manafort / Roger Stone / Sam Nunberg / Carter Page (oh god) and whatever the cat dragged in) beat the FBI, CIA, NSA, Democrats, CNN, MSNBC, Obama, Team Clinton, DNC and GOP with Russian help. And they didn't even hide it well.
- Putin has pulled off the most epic troll in history.

Which begs the questions:
- Why does the US need an army or intelligence agencies in the first place when the Russians(TM) can just throw in their Manchurian candidate without anyone noticing.
- How do you communicate this to your NATO allies. "Hi Guys, we just locked up Trump for being a Russian stooge, but honestly he doesn't know our nuke codes, we think"
 

The premise that the President of the United States was somehow aided by the Russian government is ludicrous. Presidential Candidates are under secret service protection 24/7. The FBI was already tapping Manafort.
In fact just look at how fast Flynn (who was suspected of being corrupt af) was pressured out the door. Not much Trump could do.

Now what I do believe is that dumbfucks like Manafort for example changed the RNC platform because he had some debts with Russian or Ukrainian oligarchs that he needed to pay off.

But do you really think that Trump would've risked being in the same room with "James 'Mad Dog' Mattis" if he was a Russian agent?
For someone who has 'a lot' to hide, including a Russian conspiracy Trump isn't appointing nincompoops to defense or intelligence positions.
Sure, he might give the EPA or Education to someone who can't read but outside of the Mueller probe (which for him is just a stain on his 'big win') he isn't actively sabotaging the intelligence agencies. 

So whatever Trump did is apparently not 'big' enough to speed up a case against him. If Trump was really colluding with the Russians in an 'obvious' 'caught red-handed' sort-of way he would've been removed during his first year in office.

[Nola]

Now what I do believe is that dumbfucks like Manafort for example changed the RNC platform because he had some debts with Russian or Ukrainian oligarchs that he needed to pay off.

You know who else has some of those debts? Who's past in life and business suggests a willingness to do some borderline things to advance his self-interests? The guy that also had countless conflicts of interest and a disreputable personal and business past but was so narcissistic he sought the presidency anyways.

Like you seem to be able to grasp with Manafort, Trump's potential involvement and crimes doesn't have to mean he was a full on Manchurian candidate, like some 90's spy thriller. For instance it can simply mean he is someone amenable to influence due to debt and/or gratitude thanks to his past dealings and as such it led him down a criminal path when certain opportunities were presented to him. Like many white collar criminals.

Not even sure how to touch that loaded question you started with though.

[benjipwns]

suspect that benji is only ever serious when defending Trump against russian collusion allegations

I've never that I can recall defended Trump. I've said the specific case presented so far looks weak to me. I've questioned the competence of the Trump campaign to run a three year long international conspiracy on the grandest stage with zero details of the prestige dropping out. I've lamented the media rush to rehabilitate Mueller after his disgraceful career simply because he's now running what's increasingly looking to me like another special counsel investigation that's going to flop on its purported task to the likely political benefit of the President (or Vice President/acting President in Fitzgerald's case) and instead drop a bunch of nobodies for their unrelated crimes that could have been dropped anyway.

But I still have an incredibly narrow and specific position that I stated above and nowhere does it "defend" the Trump campaign or Russia or "excuse" either. (Though I do admittingly not find Russian "interference" in any election, especially the weak ass "interference" said to have occurred in 2016, to be any more concerning than say U.K., Saudi or Israeli interference, or even U.S. government's interference.) Nowhere have I considered Trump to ever be innocent of any crimes, I've even stated multiple times I'm sure he's committed many of them, ones I'd consider worse than having Russians release John Podesta's e-mails. Nowhere does my specific statement ever make any statement in support of Donald Trump as I continue to be baffled as to why people would think I have any interest in that simply because I find a specific line of suppositions to be poorly supported and further highly unlikely to achieve its purported ends.

I don’t think anyone not in full conspiracy hat mode has suggested Trump coordinated that hacking campaign. That seems like it was going to happen regardless. Though once Trump threw his hat in the ring officially, Manafort suspiciously comes over to work on the campaign for free after getting paid as a Putin patsy in Ukraine, outreach and odd staffing choices seem to begin happening. And in that context the timeline seems to align, well, rather perfectly, no? The problem for Trump is does he at any point authorize this meeting and how much further do any of these relationships go? One person that might know is Flynn, another is Manafort. And Mueller seems really intent on trying to flip him specifically. Unless you think Trump is 100% innocent, that hardly seems like a evidentiary dead end.

See, once again you've started to conflate and attach all sorts of suppositions and suggestions to my argument and then jump to further and great suppositions and suggestions to paint "the true picture" especially the claim that I tried to do the reverse to anyone, even kingv, by suggesting Trump personally coordinated anything. I've tried to very explicitly use the "Trump campaign" because as of this date that continues to be as specific as the claim remains. Everyone last I knew has been indicted or charged for things unrelated to the Trump campaign, and proving anything the Trump campaign apparatus did to be illegal (if you don't have the coordination to engage in acquiring e-mails) is an extra step that Mueller has not even suggested he has any evidence of. (Because while he's a terrible human being, he doesn't appear to be dumb.)

All of this, with all of these people, never saying jack shit publicly as they've been deservedly* thrown under the bus and even left to flounder like Flynn. With most of them almost immediately going on a tear through the media about their own personal grievances**.

*not applicable to The Mooch
**again, an exception to which The Mooch belongs

[benjipwns]

in other words,

impeach and convict Trump
leper benji
make The Mooch Pence's VP
icon filler
impeach and convict Pence
ban wrath

[agrajag]

All I have to say about that Hogg kid is dude's huge is gigantic. It's hilarious to me.

How beaky is his huge?

[Phoenix Dark]

From the beginning my view has been that multiple people will be indicted for various crimes (including collusion) but Mueller will have to let congress handle Trump...which means nothing happens to him unless there's some type of megaton smoking gun that even republicans can't overlook. A more likely end game is that Don Jr, Kushner, etc are indicted, Trump goes ape shit and does something that either effectively ends his presidency or forces congress to take extreme actions.

TLDR: Benji will die in prison.

[benjipwns]

TLDR: Benji will die in prison.

the essentials of life provided by the benevolent state

spoiler (click to show/hide)

good thing i recently read all that stuff about what Russian prison tattoos mean

[close]

[Atramental]

All I have to say about that Hogg kid is dude's huge is gigantic. It's hilarious to me.

How beaky is his huge?

Trust me folks, his huge... bigly beaky.
You've never seen a huge this beaky.

[Atramental]

I blame TVC’s seagull bros porn comic and filler for the beak meme. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

but beak is one of those funny words that the more you say it the stranger it becomes.

[close]

[agrajag]

Beak is life my nicci

[Mandark]

Is there a reason you assume any crime would have to be a Rube Goldberg machine?

I don't assume that at all.

I've questioned the competence of the Trump campaign to run a three year long international conspiracy on the grandest stage with zero details of the prestige dropping out.

QED

[Nola]

When I said Trump there Benji I was implying the campaign as well. Though you have sort of weaved in and out of using less than specific language yourself, so 

[Phoenix Dark]

Twitter DMs obtained by BuzzFeed News show that in the summer of 2016, WikiLeaks was working to obtain files from Guccifer 2.0, an online “hacktivist” persona linked to by Russian military intelligence, the clearest evidence to date of WikiLeaks admitting its pursuit of Guccifer 2.0.

“please ‘leave,’ their conversation with them and us,” WikiLeaks asked journalist Emma Best, who was also negotiating with Guccifer 2.0 for access to what it had teased on its blog as “exclusive access” to hacked Democratic Congressional Campaign files. “we would appreciate it if you did not dump the docs and obviously archive.org will delete them anyway.”

Wikileaks had mentioned Guccifer 2.0 a single time before, tweeting in June 2016 — five weeks before it released its first dump of Democratic National Committee emails — that the persona had claimed it gave WikiLeaks DNC emails.

But by the time of the DM conversation with Best, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange had shifted the story of how WikiLeaks acquired those emails, giving repeated TV interviews that floated Seth Rich, a Democratic staffer who had been murdered in what police concluded was a botched robbery, as his real source.

The messages between Assange and Best, a freelance national security journalist and online archivist, are the starkest proof yet that Assange knew a likely Russian government hacker had the Democrat leaks he wanted. And they reveal the deliberate bad faith with which Assange fed the groundless claims that Rich was his source, even as he knew the documents’ origin.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kevincollier/assange-seth-rich-lies-guccifer-wikileaks-hannity?utm_term=.tt08PvKJ9#.cdqwK2nJV

 

but...but

[Mandark]

PD, let me tell you about a guy named Sy Hersh...

[etiolate]

Two people were killed in what OJ Simpson claimed was a murderous masked man intruder incident.

[etiolate]

Seriously, please refer to: http://g-2.space/

Before you post dumb shit like that again.  Read the timeline.

[Nola]

If you just become a neolibcon shill then you'll understand when daddy government tells you all the leaks are tied to Russia then you'll see the light. Even if the timeline doesn't make sense. Even if there is no evidence. Corkboards are for crazy conspiracy theorists. We're not Alex Jones here. We won't show you the idea. We have experts like Mandy Patinkin and Carrie Matheson. And they rely on us, the resistance! (Buy Frito Lay!) Each of us has our own elaborate web---well web is a bad word. Webs have connections. No, we have an elaborate pollack painting of (what will be) two years of investigation in which we randomly cut out a piece here and there and then present it to our gallery of experts. (Who are congressman who need an aide to help open their e-mail.) Yet the experts really already know, but they don't know that you know. We aren't sure you have faith. Faith is what matters.

Gosh.

I’m still waiting for you to explain to the class how Seth Rich got part of the hacked DNC emails to Russia in early 2016, such as a professor representing the Russian government in spring of 2016 could entice Papadopoulos with their existence and eventually set up a meeting in Trump Tower with additional Kremlin representatives to discuss their efforts and coordinating them?

I’ll hang up and wait.

Still waiting....

[etiolate]

I have you on ignore Nola! I told you this. Why do you post in reply to me and wonder why there's not a quick reply?

Please explain this:  "how Seth Rich got part of the hacked DNC emails to Russia in early 2016, such as a professor representing the Russian government in spring of 2016 could entice Papadopoulos with their existence and eventually set up a meeting in Trump Tower with additional Kremlin representatives to discuss their efforts and coordinating them?"

[Nola]

I have you on ignore Nola! I told you this. Why do you post in reply to me and wonder why there's not a quick reply?

Please explain this:  "how Seth Rich got part of the hacked DNC emails to Russia in early 2016, such as a professor representing the Russian government in spring of 2016 could entice Papadopoulos with their existence and eventually set up a meeting in Trump Tower with additional Kremlin representatives to discuss their efforts and coordinating them?"

Because like now, and when you put me on ignore because I had the audacity to call out your bullshit on Seth Rich before, I know you can't help yourself because you can't ever admit being wrong or move on when people hit that nerve.

Just like you can't help yourself coming in here to still defend your asinine theory. In this case by way of trying to insult anyone that doesn't see the world through your crackpot narratives.

So please, proceed on and explain to me how these timelines and events align in a way that allows Seth Rich to still be plausible?

[Great Rumbler]

Guys, I say we trust Julian Assange and Kim Dotcom on this one, I mean why would they lie about it?

[etiolate]

I only check your posts when you're making a ton and it's obvious that it's probably you begging for my attention. If you were at all interesting then you wouldn't be on ignore. I put you on ignore thinking that the silence would put you out of your misery but unfortunately you've gone even further towards obsession.

So please jsut explain what the fuck you're talking about here:  "how Seth Rich got part of the hacked DNC emails to Russia in early 2016, such as a professor representing the Russian government in spring of 2016 could entice Papadopoulos with their existence and eventually set up a meeting in Trump Tower with additional Kremlin representatives to discuss their efforts and coordinating them?"


Because if Rich leaked, then he probably did so to a Wiki ally or via a dropbox of some sort that a wiki member had access to. So I don't know what that sentence is even about. I guess you need to lay out your corkboard on this one.

[Mandark]

You still think that the Fox story's going to be vindicated?

[Phoenix Dark]

Seriously, please refer to: http://g-2.space/

Before you post dumb shit like that again.  Read the timeline.

Can't click this at work, will peep later. But just to be clear, who does it claim the source was?

[kingv]

I can sum up the website for you:

1) download speeds in Russia are not fast enough to hack
2) sometimes guccifer 2.0 posted when it was daytime in the US, so he must be living here.

It sort of ignores the fact that the intelligence agencies actually know his name and have identified him as a Russian agent based off him forgetting to turn on his VPN.

Note that the “Forensicator” has never actually addressed that part at all and hasn’t posted shit since that news dropped.

[benjipwns]

Is there a reason you assume any crime would have to be a Rube Goldberg machine?

I don't assume that at all.

I've questioned the competence of the Trump campaign to run a three year long international conspiracy on the grandest stage with zero details of the prestige dropping out.

QED

Is there a reason you assume an international conspiracy has to be some kind of Rube Goldberg machine?!? Especially one run by the Trump campaign?

[benjipwns]

Sean Hannity is arguing against a guy talking about the slippery slope of hate speech by bringing up the Anarchist Cookbook over and over. "Should we do nothing about that? Especially when it's out there and antifa and these other wackos are all using it? It tells you how to build bombs and other weapons!!"

edit: now he's complaining that Wikipedia allows people to post fake news about him without any kind of regulation

[Mandark]

"It would be way too complicated for these guys to pull off and also how dare you say I said it was complicated!"

[benjipwns]

Okay, we get it. You think the Trump campaign was full of international masterminds who have hoodwinked all our heroes in the intelligence agencies with one simple trick THEY don't want us to know about.

And I get called the Trump defender for having a beef with Mueller.

[etiolate]

Seriously, please refer to: http://g-2.space/

Before you post dumb shit like that again.  Read the timeline.

Can't click this at work, will peep later. But just to be clear, who does it claim the source was?

It's a timeline. Basically, Assange said he had new documents on Clinton. After that, DNC says there was tampering. They mention Trump Opp Research as possibly being taken. After that, Guccifer 2 appears. Gucc eventually drops a handful of Trump Opp Research. G2 begin talking to journalists, making lots of contacts and then claiming to send things to Wikileaks. Wikileaks finally drops what they mentioned on June 12th, but it's not Trump Opp Research. It's the DNC leaks. After Rich's murder, Assange mentions the killing and how dangerous it is for their sources. Gucc claims to have more stuff, but its public info. They then claim to have one more drop that never appears. Wiki never mentions Guccifer as a source. They make one reference to Guccifer's own link and put the word hacker in scare quotes in reference to him.

Basically, G2 only shows up after a narrative is started after Assange reveals he has Clinton docs. However, the docs released were not the ones Guccifer 2 was peddling. The BuzzFeed article you linked also conflates Guccifer's leaks, the DNC leaks and the Podesta leak. All three could have different sources. The article only conflates them to fit it all into a narrative.

[seagrams hotsauce]

etoilet a page ago "LOL look at these nutty daddy government trusting libs and their russia conspiracy theories LOL"
etoilet this page "yes of course i still believe Seth Rich was murdered. here is some very compelling evidence from some random conspiracy theorist nobgobbler"

[etiolate]

Rich was murdered. The debate was whether he leaked the DNC emails or not. There is no debate that he was murdered.

I mean he didn't back into the bullet fired at him.

[seagrams hotsauce]

You know what i fuckin meant you jerkoff

[Mandark]

You think the FBI found the DNC emails on Rich's computer and produced a report to that effect?

[Nola]

I only check your posts when you're making a ton and it's obvious that it's probably you begging for my attention. If you were at all interesting then you wouldn't be on ignore. I put you on ignore thinking that the silence would put you out of your misery but unfortunately you've gone even further towards obsession.

So please jsut explain what the fuck you're talking about here:  "how Seth Rich got part of the hacked DNC emails to Russia in early 2016, such as a professor representing the Russian government in spring of 2016 could entice Papadopoulos with their existence and eventually set up a meeting in Trump Tower with additional Kremlin representatives to discuss their efforts and coordinating them?"


Because if Rich leaked, then he probably did so to a Wiki ally or via a dropbox of some sort that a wiki member had access to. So I don't know what that sentence is even about. I guess you need to lay out your corkboard on this one.

Your incredible obstinance and illusions of grandeur continue to be your more endearing qualities around here.

I'll spoil because its another TLDR post, but I'll make the good faith case(can't help a little snark though), if you can manage to make the good faith case back:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

My sentence refers to the timeline of the hacks that are in the public record. I hadn't realized you were unfamiliar with the context of this story outside of the Seth Rich angle. Honest mistake.

But to go into another long meandering post to break it down, the timeline does not align with any narrative where Seth Rich can adequately explain the events that transpire. Not in my mind anyways. Which is where you come in... That was the snarky point being directed at you. This isn't corkboard crackpottery, it's just basic common sense and logic.

If Seth Rich is the leaker, from a one time grab after May(since that is the last date on the emails), how does Russia come into possession of them in such a capacity that they are having meetings with Don Jr. less than a month later premised on these emails? Before they are ever leaked on Wikileaks? More importantly, how is it a professor with ties to the Kremlin is propositioning Papadopoulos in early 2016 about the Russian government possessing hacked emails? All well before any Seth Rich timeline has him heisting those emails out of the building on his laptop.

So to clarify:

- Early 2014, as revealed in Mueller indictments, the initial groundwork for the hacking campaign was being laid by the Internet Research Company.

- Late 2015, FBI alerts the DNC that at least one computer is compromised by hackers of Russian origin.

- A month later, FBI again informs DNC that their systems have been compromised by hackers of Russian origin.

- Early 2016, Papadoupoulos is contacted by an agent of Kremlin where he is propositioned about having access to emails damaging to the Hillary campaign. Inferring the Russian government has attained hacked documents.

- March 2016, Podesta's password is phished by Russian hackers.

- Late May, the earliest possible date Seth Rich could of conceivably stolen these emails based on the final dates contained within. *Notice all the stuff that has already happened around hacked Democratic emails prior.

- June 3rd, Rob Goldsone contacts Don Jr. about having damaging emails and material about the Hillary campaign. Setting up a meeting to discuss establishing a working relationship and coordination of their dispersal.

- Late June the first DNC leaks are dropped on Wikileaks. Followed by more in July. Podesta's emails would go on to be released in October.

So maybe you can square it for me, but how in the heck does Russia have knowledge and possession of hacked DNC emails as far back as early 2016? How is Don Jr. having meetings, by all indications, premised around these documents that Julian Assange supposedly attained without any coordination with Russia through Gucifer? Who also is asserted to have had no relations? Sorry, but it just doesn't add up Et.

At best you would have to concede someone, Assange and/or Gucifer, is flat out lying(shocking, I know), and they immediately passed off these hacks to the Russians. Which makes them unreliable sources(duh). The more likely scenario though, is that the operation was ongoing and the Russian's had been propositioning this shit and working on it for well over a year. And based on evidence today and a short while ago(the conversations leaked and story about the VPN of Gucifer accidentally not being turned on), Wikileaks was well aware of the origins and they weren't American. And that Seth Rich never had anything to do with this. He was just a lowly staffer that was unfortunately murdered at a convenient time for opportunistic conspiracy theorists and far too eager "free thinkers" to latch onto.

But by all means, try and square it for me.

[close]

[Steve Contra]

Okay, we get it. You think the Trump campaign was full of international masterminds who have hoodwinked all our heroes in the intelligence agencies with one simple trick THEY don't want us to know about.

And I get called the Trump defender for having a beef with Mueller.

There's a massive investigation with a special prosecutor and a team of 17 lawyers. No one is suggesting they hoodwinked anyone. And the question of "DID THE RUSSIANS WIN THE ELECTION FOR TRUMP??"is quite different than did the Trump campaign have inappropriate connections with the Russians and did those rise to the level of a prosecutable offense.

[etiolate]

Hersh said his FBI contact claimed they had found email contact with wikileaks on Rich's computer.

I think most people want an independent review with transparency of the "dnc hack" and an actual Rich investigation.

One of the more depressing parts of this is that we've been through these tricks before with both the whitewater investigation and the iraq war, but apparently most people do not learn anything. They take twisting narratives as truth and they believe claims without evidence, then we enact geopolitical policy on them.

Judging by whats being peddled out here in the past two pages, the claim is that Trump and Russia worked together to swing the election by providing wikileaks with what DNC and Clinton were doing? And what they were doing was so bad it cost them the election?  Is that it? Because when I look at that, it sure seems like a country telling itself a lie to cope with getting a hint of what it's upper echelon has been up to. 

[Nola]

Hersh said his FBI contact claimed they had found email contact with wikileaks on Rich's computer.

I think most people want an independent review with transparency of the "dnc hack" and an actual Rich investigation.

One of the more depressing parts of this is that we've been through these tricks before with both the whitewater investigation and the iraq war, but apparently most people do not learn anything. They take twisting narratives as truth and they believe claims without evidence, then we enact geopolitical policy on them.

Judging by whats being peddled out here in the past two pages, the claim is that Trump and Russia worked together to swing the election by providing wikileaks with what DNC and Clinton were doing? And what they were doing was so bad it cost them the election?  Is that it? Because when I look at that, it sure seems like a country telling itself a lie to cope with getting a hint of what it's upper echelon has been up to.

No one has said the bolded around here.

The FBI was never investigating the case. Hersh has been on record saying his source was not credible and Butowski, who I will remind you is embroiled in multiple lawsuits for their fabricated story and treatment of the Rich family, has had his story retracted. Hersh contextualized the conversation as Butowski taking 2 and 2 and making 45 out of it. So I continue to be amused that you like to use Hersh as a backbone.

I.E. Hersh does not stand by that source as credible, so why do you?

[Mandark]

Hersh said his FBI contact claimed they had found email contact with wikileaks on Rich's computer.

Yeah, in that conversation he also said that Rich had submitted DNC documents to a Dropbox that Wikileaks got access to, and this is all coming from an inside source (ie this is something that the FBI had evidence of in late summer 2016).

He's describing some pretty smoking-gun evidence of Rich as the leak, apparently in official FBI records somewhere. Even putting aside that Hersh is a notorious bullshitter*, and putting aside that he's disavowed that story both publicly and to Butowski, it seems extremely unlikely there'd be that sort of bombshell report sitting around, with people aware of it via rumors, and literally no subsequent reporting to validate it. That shit should be the holy grail for conservative media but nobody seems interested.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Distinct from his published journalism. There was a brouhaha in the blogosphere in the 2000's and a whole-ass magazine article about this.

[close]

[etiolate]

Nola: Whatever dirt Russia may have claimed to have on Hilary isn't ever directly stated to be the wiki DNC emails. You are connecting the two in your mind when there's no evidence of that. You're also assuming a lot based on claims that we should ask be qualified with evidence before going along with the claim.

[Nola]

Etiolate: The FBI was investigating Seth Rich and found smoking gun evidence on his laptop.

Also etiolate: There has been no actual Seth Rich investigation looking into this stuff and the people demand it!


It's almost like none of the concurrent logic and timelines of this Seth Rich stuff makes any sense, and the only way to keep it going or make the broken logic whole is to pile on more conspiracies 

[Mandark]

I wonder if Seth Rich's parents can sue The Bore via etoilet

Cindi tried to warn us.

[Nintex]

Assange threatened Clinton long before Trump's campaign became a real thing.
In fact, people act like Trump was the first to talk about those e-mails and leaks but that's not what happened.

It would mostly play out like this:

- On 4chan/Reddit and/or other places rumors would emerge from Wikileaks that something was afoot
- Some cryptic tweeting by Assange / WikiLeaks
- A major release of e-mail dirt
- Scavino, Stone, Flynn, Don Jr. (and other Trumpers) pick it up on the web and probably pass it on to Trump
- Media picks it up, turns it into headlines
- Trump begins his rally with: "Boy, what I just read about Crooked Hillary Clinton"

The only time he beat them to the punch is when he 'asked' the Russians (after it was known they'd hacked the DNC) to release the 30k missing Clinton e-mails.
An episode that doesn't fit into the narrative is that Kushner 'tried' to set-up a back channel after the election. Which would be a complete waste of time if they were in bed with Moscow already.

Now if Manafort was the secret Russian agent totally in cahoots with the Kremlin another strange story appears. Right after the RNC speech the Trump campaign turned into a dumpster fire. Trump was visibly upset and frustrated with his campaign manager. Manafort according to his associates had pretty much given up trying to change or control Trump as he had done with Yanukovich. Trump would simply be Trump and not read the carefully prepared statements. The Trump kids who had brought Manafort on board were deeply worried about where everything was going.

Now imagine that you're Manafort, selected by the Kremlin to influence Trump and make him the puppet leader. Why would you risk losing (Manafort was clearly headed for a loss) and possibly be offed by the GRU. Who have killed for much less. 

And finally. Say you are Hope Hicks and you've been with Trump for 99% of the time and you're interviewed by Mueller. You could say: "I was there when Trump called 'so and so' and said he'd get it done he was clearly influenced by the Russians." In fact any one of them could say that because all people are looking for at this point is the smoking gun that connects Trump to the Russian secret services. However, none of the Trumpers did so. In fact, even the people he fired without pay or he shat on (Sloppy Steve) did not sell-out Trump. They could make shit up and damage his presidency enough that he's forced to resign. But none of them do that.

And after all this is Donald John Trump we are talking about. The guy who has his personal lawyer pay off a porn star. The dude who organizes a cruise missile strike over Ice Cream at the Mar-a-lago and has Lou Dobbs call in on speakerphone during cabinet meetings. This is not someone who is especially careful or stealthy. But we have to accept that guys is able to keep his ties to Russia a secret? The only reason he's under scrutiny is because he failed to keep his prior questionable friends out of the spotlights. Trump was linked to the mob because he went to Baseball games and boxing matches with them. Trump is linked to Russia in part because he stars in the music video of a Russian singer who happens to the son of a influential oligarch.

I mean, if Mueller can't find the smoking gun within a year, either he's not looking good enough or it simply isn't there.

[Rufus]

Bork is the man to talk to for digital assassinations. Rumbler only does assited digital suicide.

[Nola]

Nola: Whatever dirt Russia may have claimed to have on Hilary isn't ever directly stated to be the wiki DNC emails. You are connecting the two in your mind when there's no evidence of that. You're also assuming a lot based on claims that we should ask be qualified with evidence before going along with the claim.

That is fucking rich, pun intended. 

We've went over the specific evidence in detail, remember? The digital footprints, the corroborating evidence shared amongst allied nations in their own hacks, the multitude of outside companies that investigated the hacks, the editing of the documents to cover up Russian operating system origins etc. Since then we now have Gucciefer's VPN foul up and these conversations. And no corroboration on these smoking guns you keep mentioning. You put me on ignore after that, remember. Now I'm trying to square the irregularities in the timeline and I guess see how deep into the obstinance hole you are gonna go.

There's not much assuming, just wanting answers. I'm looking at the evidence we have and asking you to square it with your well evidenced conspiracy. Which you haven't really done.

If Russia is running around claiming to have compromising evidence on Hillary before the Podesta hack, which aligns with warnings of the FBI toward the DNC, and the Podesta hack is the only thing ultimately released in your world on the Russian's end, something doesn't add up still. Where is this compromising information Russia is running around town trying to collude with the Trump campaign on in early 2016? Which happened before the Podesta hacks? Why did the Russians, who clearly had compromised the DNC according to multiple FBI reports, apparently do nothing with it? That last one is a biggie.

[Steve Contra]

I'm curious why Etoilet doesn't ask why there isn't a massive investigation into whether or not Seth Rich was the leak with a Republican controlled House, Senate and White House/DOJ. The FBI investigated Hillary's emails while Obama was in office, why wouldn't they do the same here under an administartion that would gain so much with evidence that Russia wasn't the source of the hack 

[Nola]

I'm curious why Etoilet doesn't ask why there isn't a massive investigation into whether or not Seth Rich was the leak with a Republican controlled House, Senate and White House/DOJ. The FBI investigated Hillary's emails while Obama was in office, why wouldn't they do the same here under an administartion that would gain so much with evidence that Russia wasn't the source of the hack 

Also this.

On a meta note, this is the sort of problem you run into when you continue on these conspiracies past their shelf life and take them out of the fringe communities they work in. As off-the-rails as etiolate can be, I don't think he is ready to jump into their answer for this.

For anyone curious, in the right-wing sphere, the rationalization for why nothing has happened is that the establishment and the deep state want to bury the truth about Seth Rich because they don't want Trump to succeed. It's insane, hopefully even for etiolate, but I've come across the rationalization before.

[Mandark]

I'm curious why Etoilet doesn't ask why there isn't a massive investigation into whether or not Seth Rich was the leak with a Republican controlled House, Senate and White House/DOJ. The FBI investigated Hillary's emails while Obama was in office, why wouldn't they do the same here under an administartion that would gain so much with evidence that Russia wasn't the source of the hack 

Bingo. There are all the incentives in the world for the FBI to produce exculpatory evidence for the president.

Also if you believe that the story in the Hersh-Butowski tape is true, the FBI has had documented evidence of this for a year and a half. Plus it's eight months since that tape was released, dangling this story out for anyone who wanted to follow up on it. Yet nothing since then.

[Nola]

In other news, on the heels of his advisors trying to calm the waters:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/982038264789061633

[etiolate]

There is massive blowback for pursuing these questions. Most people are cowards who only worry about their next purchase. Our press bows down to power and doesn't really care if the people trust them. They see themselves as crafters of news. There is a destructively close relationship between government, media, and tech.

Also, most of those Repubs would love to stick it to Trump. Most would rather have Pence in charge.  The never Trumpers buy into the Russia narrative well. The neocons are all for it. People like Bill Kristol is getting pub on MSNBC.

You're basically asking why this big corrupt complex doesn't' investigate itself.

[Mandark]

So like Fox News, Breitbart, the Washington Times, Daily Caller, the Federalist, etc?

Also Devin Nunes is out to get Trump?

[Nintex]

In other news, on the heels of his advisors trying to calm the waters:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/982038264789061633

Just read a piece that John Kelly is no longer being consulted on anything anymore and Trump just does everything on his own. Turning the White House into the 26th floor of Trump Tower.

Another case today. Trump's aides said that the troop thing was still under discussion but Trump right after announced he'd send 4000 troops to guard the border until most of the wall is complete.

[Phoenix Dark]

In other news, on the heels of his advisors trying to calm the waters:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/982038264789061633

you guys ready for a recession?

Gonna be fun when democrats start arguing for repealing the Trump tax cuts because the economy crashed the year they were passed. 

[Nola]

Last thing on my timeline point, pertinent since Marcy Wheeler's twitter feed popped up and linked an old story she wrote that referenced this that I had completely forgotten about:

I’ve posted below the first forty documents that Guccifer 2 leaked on his/her WordPress site between June 15 – June 21, 2016.  What I’ve done is cross reference these leaks, which Guccifer 2 himself/herself said were from the DNC, with Wikileaks’ DNC email publication. My research shows that none of these Guccifer 2 DNC documents are in Wikileaks’ DNC documents. That’s not to say they didn’t show up at all in Wikileaks.  They did.  They showed up in Wikileaks’ Podesta emails, not the DNC emails.  At least almost half of them did.  The other half I was not able to locate at all in Wikileaks.  Please feel free to cross reference this list yourself with Wikileaks (sometimes you have to be creative in your search or use the attachment or filename search) because I’m only human here, folks. Furthermore,  I believe that debunking information only gets us closer to the truth.

https://jimmysllama.com/2017/05/28/9867/

Even an Assange fan, so etiolate should like that.

Heres the other problem etiolate, why and how did Podesta emails end up in Guccifer's DNC leak cache in June? Did Seth Rich have a phishing business on the side?

[Steve Contra]

So like Fox News, Breitbart, the Washington Times, Daily Caller, the Federalist, etc?

Also Devin Nunes is out to get Trump?

Devin Nunes, Trey Gowdy, Jeff Sessions all in the pocket for...Pence?

[Nola]

There is massive blowback for pursuing these questions. Most people are cowards who only worry about their next purchase. Our press bows down to power and doesn't really care if the people trust them. They see themselves as crafters of news. There is a destructively close relationship between government, media, and tech.

Also, most of those Repubs would love to stick it to Trump. Most would rather have Pence in charge.  The never Trumpers buy into the Russia narrative well. The neocons are all for it. People like Bill Kristol is getting pub on MSNBC.

You're basically asking why this big corrupt complex doesn't' investigate itself.

Ok, I take back what I said:

On a meta note, this is the sort of problem you run into when you continue on these conspiracies past their shelf life and take them out of the fringe communities they work in. As off-the-rails as etiolate can be, I don't think he is ready to jump into their answer for this.

For anyone curious, in the right-wing sphere, the rationalization for why nothing has happened is that the establishment and the deep state want to bury the truth about Seth Rich because they don't want Trump to succeed. It's insane, hopefully even for etiolate, but I've come across the rationalization before.

Turns out etiolate is that type. Answering disreputable conspiracies with even more disreputable conspiracies.

[Nintex]

The Seth Rich story as it was originally reported didn't seem very believable and that's why these conspiracies showed up.
But later a more clearer version of the truth was presented by authorities and the family asked to be left alone (especially by Hannity and the other nutjobs).

Who knows, Seth may have been involved with Wikileaks but he wasn't killed by a Clinton or DNC hit squad. That's ridiculous.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Nola, why are you spending so much time debating this with etoilet? I don't think you're gonna change his mind, and I don't think you'd dedicate ~1000k words towards convincing someone the earth is round. It is funny that he has you on ignore for some reason despite engaging each one of your posts tho, that unmurder button is gettin a workout

[Nola]

The Seth Rich story as it was originally reported didn't seem very believable and that's why these conspiracies showed up.
But later a more clearer version of the truth was presented by authorities and the family asked to be left alone (especially by Hannity and the other nutjobs).

Who knows, Seth may have been involved with Wikileaks but he wasn't killed by a Clinton or DNC hit squad. That's ridiculous.

Nah, there is literally as much evidence to suggest Cindi was the leaker as there is Seth Rich.

Unless you want to take the etiolate path and start trusting Kim.com and the Butowski's over literally every piece of evidence suggesting Russian origin. I implore you, don't do it my filler-lite friend!

[benjipwns]

In other news, on the heels of his advisors trying to calm the waters:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/982038264789061633

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/we-let-our-readers-practice-international-trade-they-started-a-bunch-of-trade-wars/

spoiler (click to show/hide)

in the comments somebody helps them by pointing out the obvious fact (if you try the game) that their entire framing of the game provided incentive to produce said results

[close]