Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6939453 times)

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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16260 on: April 05, 2018, 07:58:05 PM »
you guys ready for a recession?

Gonna be fun when democrats start arguing for repealing the Trump tax cuts because the economy crashed the year they were passed.  :doge

I don't know about a recession, but between tax cuts and tariffs it's like Trump's testing whether the government can still manufacture inflation.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16261 on: April 05, 2018, 08:04:13 PM »
What’s the over under on the Dow tomorrow?

I bet it loses 700 pts

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16262 on: April 05, 2018, 08:06:32 PM »
There's a massive investigation with a special prosecutor and a team of 17 lawyers. No one is suggesting they hoodwinked anyone. And the question of "DID THE RUSSIANS WIN THE ELECTION FOR TRUMP??"is quite different than did the Trump campaign have inappropriate connections with the Russians and did those rise to the level of a prosecutable offense.
Yeah, I don't have any disagreements with any of this.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16263 on: April 05, 2018, 08:07:32 PM »
Nola, why are you spending so much time debating this with etoilet? I don't think you're gonna change his mind, and I don't think you'd dedicate ~1000k words towards convincing someone the earth is round. It is funny that he has you on ignore for some reason despite engaging each one of your posts tho, that unmurder button is gettin a workout
I mean I really wasn't at first, but I did feel like every one piles on him(which, to be fair, I do as well, and he frankly has earned it for his insane obstinance) so I at least felt I should make a good faith effort to explain it to him. Even though the request response from him was prefaced by the usual insults that should of been a warning.

Thought maybe, but you know, etiolate is always gonna etiolate....Also its sort of fun to test where his rationalizations will take him since he can't admit to ever being wrong, no matter how strong the case is made against his points.



benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16264 on: April 05, 2018, 08:10:20 PM »
Who knows, Seth may have been involved with Wikileaks but he wasn't killed by a Clinton or DNC hit squad. That's ridiculous.
That's exactly how they would make it appear though. That's the problem. The bullet may have even been fired backwards through time.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16265 on: April 05, 2018, 08:40:18 PM »
https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/bernie-sanders-revolution-needs-black-voters-to-win-but-can
Quote
But the time and place for the remark — 50 years to the day after King's assassination, at an event to discuss that legacy — quickly shook loose old frustrations among Democrats who watched the senator struggle in 2016 to connect with black voters and speak to issues of racial justice.
Quote
"Bernie's comments were tone deaf and will not help him with communities of color, especially black folks," said Joshua DuBois, a strategist who led Obama's faith-based initiative. "On that hallowed day, our focus should've been on the transformative legacy of Dr. King and how we can come together to continue King's fight against systemic racism and injustice — not attacking the legacy of the first black president, who fought against many of the same things Dr. King fought."
https://twitter.com/Bakari_Sellers/status/981879036291973120
Quote
To “dismiss with utter arrogance and lack of self-awareness the first African-African president,” he said on Thursday, is “just the height and epitome of arrogance and lack of self-awareness.”
Quote
Sanders, in the months since 2016, has cultivated a closer relationship with leaders like Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

...

“It’s not Bernie’s fault, but the circumstance he was faced with [in 2016] is that he took on this image as this [exemplar] of progressivism when the progressive community tends to marginalize black concerns,” said Rev. Al Sharpton in an interview last week. “He was the progressive candidate and he incurred some wrath from all of us because of that.”
Quote
Still, early in his political career, and at times during the 2016 campaign, Sanders was reluctant to embrace any view of left-leaning politics that did not put class and economic inequality at the forefront. “The real issue is not whether you’re black or white, whether you’re a woman or a man,” he said in a 1988 interview. “The real issue is whose side are you on? Are you on the side of workers and poor people or are you on the side of big money and the corporations?”

This kind of thing is why blacks will finally wake up and be voting GOP in 2018 and 2020.

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16266 on: April 05, 2018, 10:05:18 PM »
The Seth Rich story as it was originally reported didn't seem very believable and that's why these conspiracies showed up.
But later a more clearer version of the truth was presented by authorities and the family asked to be left alone (especially by Hannity and the other nutjobs).

Who knows, Seth may have been involved with Wikileaks but he wasn't killed by a Clinton or DNC hit squad. That's ridiculous.

Big news if true.  That type of info would make a lot of people look bad and never be able to recover.  :o

To be perma-owned liked that...... damn.
©ZH

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16267 on: April 05, 2018, 10:33:11 PM »
Okay, we get it. You think the Trump campaign was full of international masterminds who have hoodwinked all our heroes in the intelligence agencies with one simple trick THEY don't want us to know about.

And I get called the Trump defender for having a beef with Mueller. :trumps

You can be stupid and still commit international crimes.  :doge

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16268 on: April 05, 2018, 10:57:25 PM »
https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/982064890310373376

More clarity on why Manafort is so concerned about additional charges in his suit.

Guy is fucked.




benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16269 on: April 05, 2018, 11:02:58 PM »
Quote
[In response to Trump deploying the National Guard to the border] Senators in Mexico urged President Enrique Pena Nieto to temporarily suspend cooperation with the U.S. on immigration and security issues. In a nonbinding statement approved unanimously Wednesday, the senators asked Mexico’s government to freeze joint efforts “in the fight against transnational organized crime” until Trump starts acting “with the civility and respect that the people of Mexico deserve.”
Over a hundred years is well past time for another Punitive Expedition to teach them some manners Mr. President, don't let them disrespect MLK Jr.'s assassination and our fighting men and women and transgenders like this :american

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16270 on: April 05, 2018, 11:23:35 PM »
https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/982064890310373376

More clarity on why Manafort is so concerned about additional charges in his suit.

Guy is fucked.

And Mueller doesn't use lube.  :letsfukk :mouf :takei

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16271 on: April 05, 2018, 11:33:42 PM »
Unless Manafort cries uncle and flips first  :jawalrus


Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16273 on: April 06, 2018, 12:41:16 AM »
If you just become a neolibcon shill then you'll understand when daddy government tells you all the leaks are tied to Russia then you'll see the light. Even if the timeline doesn't make sense. Even if there is no evidence. Corkboards are for crazy conspiracy theorists. We're not Alex Jones here. We won't show you the idea. We have experts like Mandy Patinkin and Carrie Matheson. And they rely on us, the resistance! (Buy Frito Lay!) Each of us has our own elaborate web---well web is a bad word. Webs have connections. No, we have an elaborate pollack painting of (what will be) two years of investigation in which we randomly cut out a piece here and there and then present it to our gallery of experts. (Who are congressman who need an aide to help open their e-mail.) Yet the experts really already know, but they don't know that you know. We aren't sure you have faith. Faith is what matters.

Gosh.
You forgot to tell us to do all our online shopping at amazon.com :trumps
Hi

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16274 on: April 06, 2018, 02:28:17 AM »
trey gowdy welcome to the resistance. or was he already part of the resistance? can't keep track

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16275 on: April 06, 2018, 05:31:18 AM »


lol polls

jorma

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16276 on: April 06, 2018, 07:50:11 AM »
stormy would be like 14 years old if she banged first term bill clinton

pizzagate might be real after all





Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16278 on: April 06, 2018, 09:26:37 AM »
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/981970631406186497

https://twitter.com/LOLGOP/status/982233129392922624

Strange how public pressure and a companies support base throwing a fit about hiring a racist is a free speech crisis, but doing the same for black men kneeling over systemic racism is an affront to the public and should remain a fireable offense

Though specifically in Shapiro’s case, his argument is an interesting one, since if you apply it to civil rights as opposed to the alt-right, he’s essentially implying to people that reimposing Jim Crow is the best cure for racism.

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16279 on: April 06, 2018, 09:47:04 AM »
Not surprising. These are the same people who blame Obama for their racism.
©ZH

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16280 on: April 06, 2018, 11:11:30 AM »
Quote
Conservatives:”Let the market decide”

*The market decides*

Conservatives: “You’re infringing on my freedom of speech!”
©ZH

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16281 on: April 06, 2018, 12:03:08 PM »
Ben Shapiro is an edgelord douchebag who hangs out with other douchebags who think they are 'intellectuals'

Also Twitter threads are the WORST.

You could make a point that political correctness gives room for a politician like Trump.
But saying that a journalist being fired because he broke the code of conduct of his employer somehow helps Trump is ridiculous.

Also I ran the numbers recently and the numbers for these nutjobs are way down. Which they probably blame on YouTube or Facebook censorship or whatever and not the fact that they publish the worst content.
Let's be real here. If it wasn't for their social media e-penis these guys would be greeters at WalMart or flipping burgers at McDonalds (and probably shit at those jobs too)

Same with most other YouTubers tbh. Most of them look completely unhireable, to revolting to even have around as NPC's in sim-games like Planet Coaster.
🤴

HardcoreRetro

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16282 on: April 06, 2018, 12:55:22 PM »
to revolting to even have around as NPC's in sim-games like Planet Coaster.

In Rollercoaster Tycoon you could just throw people in the water and watch em die.

Guest 2664 thinks the Deathcoaster 3000 is too scary!

I'll show you scary, you piece of shit.

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16283 on: April 06, 2018, 01:31:17 PM »
Another case today. Trump's aides said that the troop thing was still under discussion but Trump right after announced he'd send 4000 troops to guard the border until most of the wall is complete.

Remember when US troops being sent into Texas was something that Republicans feared enough to mobilize the State Guard to spy on them?
©@©™

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16284 on: April 06, 2018, 01:57:24 PM »
These virulent anti-sanders people are just as insane as the PUMAs or the virulent anti-Clinton types.

Like pointing out the fact that the Democratic Party is poorly run shouldn’t be particularly divisive because it is so obviously true.

Obama was an incredibly charismatic president that was able to see personal electoral success while simultaneously overseeing a near complete collapse of the national party.

You can quibble about that a bit, but there is arguably a lot of truth in that statement.

Some people will bend over backwards to equate every criticism he levies at the DNC to being a line straight out David dukes playbook.

IMO, he’s definitely one note, and he’s pretty tone deaf, especially on racial issues, but he’s still more of an ally than not, and seeing so many painting him as tge source of all evil in the country is like some sort of a sign that the bots won.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16285 on: April 06, 2018, 03:38:51 PM »
What’s the over under on the Dow tomorrow?

I bet it loses 700 pts

Let me know if anybody wants stock tips.

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16286 on: April 06, 2018, 04:06:13 PM »
RIP Sanders 2020 campaign.

RIP your dick this weekend
rub

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16287 on: April 06, 2018, 04:11:30 PM »
 :drudge :drudge

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16288 on: April 06, 2018, 05:44:19 PM »
What’s the over under on the Dow tomorrow?

I bet it loses 700 pts

Let me know if anybody wants stock tips.

Here's my next thing I'm curious about, now that Trump has doubled down with an additional 100 billion, assuming we don't back down, China is basically tapped on the traditional tit-for-tat after their next round of retaliation.

So where do they go next? Traditional will be tapped out, but they can do some pretty harmful shit to Trump's base if they get emboldened. Bloomberg mentioned how Sheldon Adelson, Trump's largest donor, has three-fifths of his income tied up in revenue streams from China, like his Macau casino. They could strip away his licenses and shut him down and that will do more harm than the benefit of any tax cut or Israeli embassy Trump got for him. Or China could slow the purchase of our debt, put a strain on brands like Coca-Cola, defense companies, or industrial equipment.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16289 on: April 06, 2018, 06:10:19 PM »
Sanders' comments don't matter IMO. He's not going to do shit in 2020 because there will be a large field of talented candidates who appeal to various demographics (including college kids), vs 2016 when he was the defacto alternative/protest option against a distasteful frontrunner.
010

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16290 on: April 06, 2018, 06:23:01 PM »
What’s the over under on the Dow tomorrow?

I bet it loses 700 pts

Let me know if anybody wants stock tips.

Here's my next thing I'm curious about, now that Trump has doubled down with an additional 100 billion, assuming we don't back down, China is basically tapped on the traditional tit-for-tat after their next round of retaliation.

So where do they go next? Traditional will be tapped out, but they can do some pretty harmful shit to Trump's base if they get emboldened. Bloomberg mentioned how Sheldon Adelson, Trump's largest donor, has three-fifths of his income tied up in revenue streams from China, like his Macau casino. They could strip away his licenses and shut him down and that will do more harm than the benefit of any tax cut or Israeli embassy Trump got for him. Or China could slow the purchase of our debt, put a strain on brands like Coca-Cola, defense companies, or industrial equipment.

I expect they will file a complaint with the WTO and win, though that takes a while.

Then theoretically, we either come into wto compliance or get hit with sanctions by wto member countries.

Presumably, businesses could sue to force the administration to withdraw sanctions. But trump could counter by withdrawing from the wto.

warcock

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16291 on: April 06, 2018, 06:25:43 PM »
If china starts flaming treasuries im buying more guns and ammo. American exceptionalism is contagious.

warcock

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16292 on: April 06, 2018, 06:28:49 PM »
warcock, all of your posts read as if you're inebriated

Im not a taco i wont protect you, go shine TVC s knob.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16293 on: April 06, 2018, 07:13:00 PM »
Dem 2020 field is  :-X

Gillibrand will shift to whatever position is most expedient, Booker is a donor stooge, Biden is right of Clinton but gets away with it because he's a dude, Harris talks a good game on criminal justice but has a terrible record as a prosecutor, Bernie is old af and Warren doesn't seem to be running.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16294 on: April 06, 2018, 07:18:04 PM »
lmao
🤴

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16295 on: April 06, 2018, 08:00:35 PM »
Dem 2020 field is  :-X

Gillibrand will shift to whatever position is most expedient, Booker is a donor stooge, Biden is right of Clinton but gets away with it because he's a dude, Harris talks a good game on criminal justice but has a terrible record as a prosecutor, Bernie is old af and Warren doesn't seem to be running.

...that is an exceptionally strong class of democrats compared to 08 and 16.
püp

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16296 on: April 06, 2018, 08:05:42 PM »
Just look at the fuckery candidate Trump pulled.

Now imagine if he has the entire state apparatus at his disposal for fuckery in the election.

Sorry folks, voter ID mandatory, frisks and pat downs at every voting site. ICE Agents to deport illegals trying to vote!
We must protect the election from foreign influence!

The Democrats also disabled their strongest weapon (Facebook) by themselves.  :neogaf
🤴

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16297 on: April 06, 2018, 08:11:04 PM »
Clinton was left of Obama. Biden is fine. Biggest problem* is his age.

*Assuming he just puts his hands on people's shoulders a lot and hasn't ever actually crossed that groping line.

Not the bankruptcy bill? Anita Hill? His pharma ties? That he's probably gonna run on being the white working class candidate? "Rich are as patriotic as the poor"? Resuscitate Hillary if the alternative is Biden.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16298 on: April 06, 2018, 08:12:04 PM »
The only thing Trump needs to do is not fuck up the deal with North Korea and he can claim credit for both the defeat of ISIS and the end of the NK nuclear program.

Or he can blow up the deal and start WW3 with China and North Korea suspending elections until the nuclear fall-out is gone.
 :trumps
🤴

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16299 on: April 06, 2018, 08:32:28 PM »
Clinton was left of Obama. Biden is fine. Biggest problem* is his age.

*Assuming he just puts his hands on people's shoulders a lot and hasn't ever actually crossed that groping line.

Not the bankruptcy bill? Anita Hill? His pharma ties? That he's probably gonna run on being the white working class candidate? "Rich are as patriotic as the poor"? Resuscitate Hillary if the alternative is Biden.

Voting for the Iraq War, sponsoring the police bill, voting for welfare reform...

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16300 on: April 06, 2018, 08:43:16 PM »
If Biden wins the nomination and some idiots on the left tank his run over fucking Anita Hill, we deserve a second Trump term.

Dog. Biden hasn't even announced yet and you've jumped forward to where he's already nominated, just so you can get mad at a hypothetical leftist betrayal in the general.

You're gonna give yourself hypertension this way.

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16301 on: April 06, 2018, 08:51:57 PM »
So yeah that Dow down almost 600 points...yeah.
que

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16302 on: April 06, 2018, 08:55:25 PM »
If Biden wins the nomination and some idiots on the left tank his run over fucking Anita Hill, we deserve a second Trump term.

 ::) Already getting in the excuses for 2020? If any candidate manages to lose to Trump it'll be because they suck and should be forced to commit ritual seppuku

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16303 on: April 06, 2018, 09:00:04 PM »
Watch the Dem candidate flip PA and MI, win the popular vote by like seven million, and still lose.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16304 on: April 06, 2018, 09:02:39 PM »
We just need to funnel the illegal votes into swing states, instead of putting them all in California like Robby Mook did.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16305 on: April 06, 2018, 09:05:59 PM »
You mean in 2016, right? There wasn't really any difference between Clinton and Obama in 2008.

There were some noteworthy ones, for those of us old enough to remember 08. Specifically healthcare, Iraq, Pakistan...remember this?
010

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16306 on: April 06, 2018, 09:06:49 PM »
I forgot the worst possible Dem candidate,  :piss Andrew Cuomo :piss2

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16307 on: April 06, 2018, 09:07:51 PM »
The only thing Trump needs to do is not fuck up the deal with North Korea and he can claim credit for both the defeat of ISIS and the end of the NK nuclear program.

Or he can blow up the deal and start WW3 with China and North Korea suspending elections until the nuclear fall-out is gone.
 :trumps

There is like 0% chance that Trump strikes a good deal with North Korea.

Kim Jong Un is going to step up and say “we will denuclearize if the US/South Korea sign a peace agreement toens the Korean War and all of the US troops leave the Korean Peninsula and Japan.”

Nillas that follow North Korea know that this is what they basically always do. They say they’ll do that shot but then come up with some crazy concessions that they know we will never agree to, but Trump has hired a bunch of know nothings that he doesn’t even listen to anyway, and thus is completely unaware of this.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16308 on: April 06, 2018, 09:10:13 PM »
I'd much rather have Trump engaging in dead-end negotiations with North Korea than bombing them.

I am a bit worried what happens when he figures out they're not giving up their nukes. Does he accept some minor concession and pretend it's a big deal, or does he get really pissy?

edit: Actually, the answer to this probably depends on how Fox News covers it. Someone needs to bribe them into running a "Stunning Diplomatic Victory For The President" chyron when NK agrees to sign a non-binding statement about aspiring to live in a world free of nuclear weapons, or whatever.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16309 on: April 06, 2018, 09:13:04 PM »
You mean in 2016, right? There wasn't really any difference between Clinton and Obama in 2008.

There were some noteworthy ones, for those of us old enough to remember 08. Specifically healthcare, Iraq, Pakistan...remember this?

that shot of Dodd, Clinton and Biden when Obama brought up Iraq :dead


Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16311 on: April 07, 2018, 12:40:56 AM »


I expect they will file a complaint with the WTO and win, though that takes a while.

Then theoretically, we either come into wto compliance or get hit with sanctions by wto member countries.

Presumably, businesses could sue to force the administration to withdraw sanctions. But trump could counter by withdrawing from the wto.

Oh for certain. And Trump will continue to try and abuse the national security loophole(setting a really worrisome precedent in the process). Which I really do not know enough about the efficiency of the WTO process to say how effective he can be at dragging that out. And of course, he could just straight up ignore it and create a real clusterfuck like you say. I'm just curious on speculating what China is going to do asymmetrically. Since it seems we are heading down that path with Trump's additional 100 billion. Assuming he counters once again after China counters.

And Trump is the first leader of a major superpower that I honestly do not know has the capacity to act like a rational actor in the face of a self-created economic crisis like that. He really doesn't seem to know what the fuck he is doing. Like his tweet today bragging about low aluminum prices.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16312 on: April 07, 2018, 06:11:13 AM »


I expect they will file a complaint with the WTO and win, though that takes a while.

Then theoretically, we either come into wto compliance or get hit with sanctions by wto member countries.

Presumably, businesses could sue to force the administration to withdraw sanctions. But trump could counter by withdrawing from the wto.

Oh for certain. And Trump will continue to try and abuse the national security loophole(setting a really worrisome precedent in the process). Which I really do not know enough about the efficiency of the WTO process to say how effective he can be at dragging that out. And of course, he could just straight up ignore it and create a real clusterfuck like you say. I'm just curious on speculating what China is going to do asymmetrically. Since it seems we are heading down that path with Trump's additional 100 billion. Assuming he counters once again after China counters.

And Trump is the first leader of a major superpower that I honestly do not know has the capacity to act like a rational actor in the face of a self-created economic crisis like that. He really doesn't seem to know what the fuck he is doing. Like his tweet today bragging about low aluminum prices.
Which is why the Chinese will fold and will be pressured by others to make some shitty deal with Trump that gives him almost nothing but good ratings. Because as a developing super power they can't handle such a massive economic crisis yet.
Asymmetrically the only weapon the Chinese have is North Korea and Trump would bomb the fuck out of them if it went too wild especially with John Bolton whispering in his ear.

If the Chinese say fuck it and ban say Apple from making iPhones in China Trump can brag he brought the jobs 'home'. What worries me more than Trump is that corporate America seems to on-board with his fuckery.
Supporting his policies by handing out bonuses after the tax plan was passed. Giving him discounts on planes, building factories, Elon Musk calling on Trump to sanction China more etc. . American companies seem to think the lunatic is a competitive advantage.

If and after he wins this feud with China he will go after others the same way. Because it will proof that his tactics worked. German automakers better prepare for the revenge of the Donald.
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warcock

  • Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16313 on: April 07, 2018, 06:53:06 AM »
That is kind of an optimistic outlook imo. Xi just instated himself as god king for life, I really doubt he is going to fold under pressure from his black class.  You might deal with some capital flight and shrinkage but it may be worth it if your goal is to project strenght regionally. I think both nations are going to trade blows temporarily, we will see how it develops afterwards. Unfortunately "free trade" does not seem like it's too big to fail, although one would think it should be.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16314 on: April 07, 2018, 08:00:50 AM »
That is kind of an optimistic outlook imo. Xi just instated himself as god king for life, I really doubt he is going to fold under pressure from his black class.  You might deal with some capital flight and shrinkage but it may be worth it if your goal is to project strenght regionally. I think both nations are going to trade blows temporarily, we will see how it develops afterwards. Unfortunately "free trade" does not seem like it's too big to fail, although one would think it should be.
It depends on how the Chinese look at this.

Trump has a point that they're not a developing nation anymore and giving China more leeway at the WTO compared to other countries with much smaller economies doesn't make much sense.
Like with the EU those benefits should only apply to poorer country regions of China, not the newly build economic and trade hubs that are very competitive.

However, so far Trump has only targeted a rather insignificant export (aluminium and steel) in the sense that China can easily find other clients for those products.
They might consider that on the short term giving Trump a win and making the US look foolish serves their long term goals better than trying to beat the US at a trade war.

What Trump obviously doesn't get is that at some point this will bite him or the US in the ass. If a specific US industry (like the car industry) craters again the EU and/or China would be less inclined to cut them some slack and help out. 
China will also look to be less dependent on the US in the near future as will other trade partners, who will naturally trade more with China in response.
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kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16315 on: April 07, 2018, 11:14:16 AM »
A smarter diplomat could probably shift gears into having some sort of coordinated response to punish China for things it actually does wrong, but I think the world community is far more likely to side with China than the US in this.

But on the other hand the world community might just say “this moron probably can’t win in 2020, let’s just grin and bear it for another two years and placate him so he doesn’t blow up the world economy, and we’ll go nuclear on him if he wins”

But placating him also sets a dangerous precedent.

I feel like the smart move for China, or whoever else is to put him in his place, to erode his support at home.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16316 on: April 07, 2018, 02:03:01 PM »
not surprised this thread would be spending all of its time undermining the Biden 2020 campaign in favor of Donald Trump's re-election

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16317 on: April 07, 2018, 02:10:04 PM »

Which is why the Chinese will fold and will be pressured by others to make some shitty deal with Trump that gives him almost nothing but good ratings. Because as a developing super power they can't handle such a massive economic crisis yet.
Asymmetrically the only weapon the Chinese have is North Korea and Trump would bomb the fuck out of them if it went too wild especially with John Bolton whispering in his ear.

If the Chinese say fuck it and ban say Apple from making iPhones in China Trump can brag he brought the jobs 'home'. What worries me more than Trump is that corporate America seems to on-board with his fuckery.
Supporting his policies by handing out bonuses after the tax plan was passed. Giving him discounts on planes, building factories, Elon Musk calling on Trump to sanction China more etc. . American companies seem to think the lunatic is a competitive advantage.

If and after he wins this feud with China he will go after others the same way. Because it will proof that his tactics worked. German automakers better prepare for the revenge of the Donald.

You should do some looking into on the collective humiliation of UK/Chinese Opium wars and how that has shaped Chinese nationalism toward external trade wars going forward. A collective sense of "Never again" is basically the TLDR of it.

The idea China will easily bend the knee because of measures affecting only 18% of their exports and a small fraction of their GDP is incredibly presumptive. I've read estimates that the full brunt of our measures(when making good faith estimates of where China will look toward as substitutes) could maybe shave off only 1/10th of a percentage point of their annual growth. I think you are falling into the American exceptionalism mindset some Trump people are falling into in over-estimating our impact on their economy. Undervaluing how Xi's authoritarian grip on the country allows him a lot more room to weather storms and maintain posturing. Unlike in America, a large number of major employers are state owned, as are Chinese banks, which Xi can control to minimize layoffs and capital crashes. Not so much in America. And unlike America, China is not beholden to the pressures of our political system and their interest groups.

There are a lot of assumptions in this post and I am not sure many are correct or well supported. For instance it is just not true that China lacks many unconventional retaliation pathways, 25% of all US semiconductor revenue is reliant on China, China has a large supply of cobalt which could be used to severely harm a number of US industries, there are countless billions of US revenue tied up in Chinese assets. Like I mentioned Sheldon Adelson and his casinos on the last page as an example. I think you are severely undervaluing the amount of self-harm it would take to even get to a point where you break China's resolve.

There is also the assumption that by putting barriers around the lowest market exporter somehow means America defaults to being the next producer up. Which is just not true in a lot of cases. Like we saw under Obama, you can enact barriers around an export market to encourage American production, but most companies just shift to the next lowest bidder, which is often not America. In Obama's case, it can just be Chinese goods sold through shell companies in non-tariffed countries.




kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16318 on: April 07, 2018, 03:06:42 PM »
I also think that China is just politically set up to more easily weather a trade war.

Their government is set up to easily punish US companies if they choose. They are also more willing to just pour money into their industries to keep them afloat through the trade war. The US doesn’t really have mechanisms to do the same easily.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16319 on: April 07, 2018, 04:28:06 PM »


I expect they will file a complaint with the WTO and win, though that takes a while.

Then theoretically, we either come into wto compliance or get hit with sanctions by wto member countries.

Presumably, businesses could sue to force the administration to withdraw sanctions. But trump could counter by withdrawing from the wto.

Oh for certain. And Trump will continue to try and abuse the national security loophole(setting a really worrisome precedent in the process). Which I really do not know enough about the efficiency of the WTO process to say how effective he can be at dragging that out. And of course, he could just straight up ignore it and create a real clusterfuck like you say. I'm just curious on speculating what China is going to do asymmetrically. Since it seems we are heading down that path with Trump's additional 100 billion. Assuming he counters once again after China counters.

And Trump is the first leader of a major superpower that I honestly do not know has the capacity to act like a rational actor in the face of a self-created economic crisis like that. He really doesn't seem to know what the fuck he is doing. Like his tweet today bragging about low aluminum prices.
Which is why the Chinese will fold and will be pressured by others to make some shitty deal with Trump that gives him almost nothing but good ratings. Because as a developing super power they can't handle such a massive economic crisis yet.
Asymmetrically the only weapon the Chinese have is North Korea and Trump would bomb the fuck out of them if it went too wild especially with John Bolton whispering in his ear.

If the Chinese say fuck it and ban say Apple from making iPhones in China Trump can brag he brought the jobs 'home'. What worries me more than Trump is that corporate America seems to on-board with his fuckery.
Supporting his policies by handing out bonuses after the tax plan was passed. Giving him discounts on planes, building factories, Elon Musk calling on Trump to sanction China more etc. . American companies seem to think the lunatic is a competitive advantage.

If and after he wins this feud with China he will go after others the same way. Because it will proof that his tactics worked. German automakers better prepare for the revenge of the Donald.

Nola already explained why you're wrong. I just want to say this reminds me of "Brexit is a win for the UK, just watch" arguments. And then 6 months, a year, etc later...silence.
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