Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6929972 times)

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Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16380 on: April 08, 2018, 09:26:01 PM »
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/YourNewsWire

Quote
Media Bias/Fact Check (MBFC) classifies YourNewsWire as ‘Conspiracy/Pseudoscience’, arguing that it “mixes” conspiracy theories with legitimate news, presumably to confuse readers into believing in the conspiracy theories.

YourNewsWire appears to be pro-Russian: According to Boswell, the European Union’s East StratCom Task Force criticised YourNewsWire for using fake news to favour Russian policy. However, Joel Harding (a Kremlin propaganda expert) believed that Russians were using YourNewsWire as a mule or proxy to spread disinformation
dog

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16381 on: April 08, 2018, 09:26:19 PM »
I've always said optimus and etiolate should be much better friends than they are.

They even share a love for deep-state linked Syrian chem-war truther conspiracies.


Maybe it's because we're open-minded individuals that actually consider all sides of an issue instead of being morons who copy-paste the opinion spoonfed to us by neoliberal corporate media. I might as well be talking to CNN writers in this thread with you fucking idiots in it.

Dude, you are not open minded, like at all. You are stubborn at best and desingenious at worst.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16382 on: April 08, 2018, 09:28:14 PM »
Maybe it's because we're open-minded individuals that actually consider all sides of an issue


Broseidon

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16383 on: April 08, 2018, 09:28:16 PM »
Have you guys ever considered that maybe you're all just mindless sheeple as opposed to noble free-thinker and warrior for truth Optimus?
bent

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16384 on: April 08, 2018, 09:28:36 PM »
"Open minded"

 :neogaf

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16385 on: April 08, 2018, 09:30:47 PM »
Can't be closed minded if you don't have a mind.


agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16386 on: April 08, 2018, 09:34:20 PM »
damn, did Shosta's balls drop over the course of his sabbatical?

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16387 on: April 08, 2018, 09:36:12 PM »
I've always said optimus and etiolate should be much better friends than they are.

They even share a love for deep-state linked Syrian chem-war truther conspiracies.


Maybe it's because we're open-minded individuals that actually consider all sides of an issue instead of being morons who copy-paste the opinion spoonfed to us by neoliberal corporate media. I might as well be talking to CNN writers in this thread with you fucking idiots in it.

Dude, you are not open minded, like at all. You are stubborn at best and desingenious at worst.


Just because I don't respect idiots that parrot whatever is spoonfed to them by popular media and "culture" doesn't mean I'm stubborn. My opinion has been formed after I consider all possibilities and listening to morons like you copy paste propaganda can be frustrating. But sure, I'm the close minded one and you geniuses who just spam mass media talking points 24/7 are the open-minded.



Must be fun living in Hyper Realist World where everyone acts rationally and everything is perfectly explainable based on What Should Be.

I don't even understand the point of peddling this bullshit anymore. Trump doesn't seem interested in expanding US involvement in Syria. Hillary Clinton isn't walking through that door either. We're not going to spark a war in Syria, Russia has it sown up pretty tight right now (to the point US air forces wouldn't be safe in large portions of the country). So why are you guys still posting literal fake news about a topic everyone else sees pretty clearly? What's the point of all this, if war isn't going to happen?


Trump appointed John fucking Bolton. He's not interested in peace anywhere.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16388 on: April 08, 2018, 09:37:59 PM »

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16389 on: April 08, 2018, 09:38:59 PM »
How's that Trump investigation going? Is he in jail yet?

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16390 on: April 08, 2018, 09:40:21 PM »
tfw you get called out on posting links from a russian fake news site and then lash out at everyone else for being brainwashed morons

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16391 on: April 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM »
I've always said optimus and etiolate should be much better friends than they are.

They even share a love for deep-state linked Syrian chem-war truther conspiracies.


Maybe it's because we're open-minded individuals that actually consider all sides of an issue instead of being morons who copy-paste the opinion spoonfed to us by neoliberal corporate media. I might as well be talking to CNN writers in this thread with you fucking idiots in it.

Dude, you are not open minded, like at all. You are stubborn at best and desingenious at worst.


Just because I don't respect idiots that parrot whatever is spoonfed to them by popular media and "culture" doesn't mean I'm stubborn. My opinion has been formed after I consider all possibilities and listening to morons like you copy paste propaganda can be frustrating. But sure, I'm the close minded one and you geniuses who just spam mass media talking points 24/7 are the open-minded.

That is not open minded, like at all.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16392 on: April 08, 2018, 09:42:30 PM »
tfw you get called out on posting links from a russian fake news site and then lash out at everyone else for being brainwashed morons


I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16393 on: April 08, 2018, 09:43:00 PM »
How's that Trump investigation going? Is he in jail yet?

I don't, the president is current;y firing his lawyers faster than he can hire them.  :doge

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16394 on: April 08, 2018, 09:43:55 PM »
How's that Trump investigation going? Is he in jail yet?

I don't, the president is current;y firing his lawyers faster than he can hire them.  :doge


Surely that will be the end of him!

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16395 on: April 08, 2018, 09:44:53 PM »
O.J. didn't do it.  :doge

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16396 on: April 08, 2018, 09:45:43 PM »
tfw you get called out on posting links from a russian fake news site and then lash out at everyone else for being brainwashed morons


I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

why do you think the content of that interview is more remarkable than the source you chose to present us with?

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16397 on: April 08, 2018, 09:46:05 PM »
I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

The source is the Russian foreign minister. He's the ONLY source.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:50:14 PM by Great Rumbler »
dog

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16398 on: April 08, 2018, 09:47:31 PM »
I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

The source is the Russian defense minister. He's the ONLY source.

But he's not the biased western media empire.  :hans1

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16399 on: April 08, 2018, 09:48:20 PM »

I listened to the link in that article, all I hear(or read on the subtitles) is Lavrov repeating the same line of denial/blame-shifting that they have used every time the issue of chemical weapons use has been brought up, including attempting to poison the well for any future incidents. Trying to blame any past, present, or future actions on the rebels and their backers.

....Just filtered through a fake news site that plays on the heart strings of conspiracy theorists that aren't prone to questioning things that play into their biases.

Just for further reference, since I wasn't "open-minded" enough to just believe this story and move on, here is Lavrov espousing the same thing in April of last year:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-14/russia-says-evidence-growing-syria-chemical-attack-was-staged

And Putin peddling the same talking points a few days before that:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/putin-predicts-more-false-flag-chemical-attacks-in-syria.html

Never offering any evidence of their assertions.

It's almost like Russia has been spouting these unsubstantiated blame-shifting lines domestically and internationally to formally deny past chemical attacks of their oppressive ally and to poison the well on future ones they have already signaled they have no problem allowing their ally to engage in.


Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16400 on: April 08, 2018, 09:49:17 PM »
tfw you get called out on posting links from a russian fake news site and then lash out at everyone else for being brainwashed morons


I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

why do you think the content of that interview is more remarkable than the source you chose to present us with?


An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh? Like I said, close-minded.

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16401 on: April 08, 2018, 09:51:48 PM »
Optimus, Im not from the US, but I will say that Russia has burned at lot of goodwill under Putin to believe their word at face value.

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16402 on: April 08, 2018, 09:52:11 PM »
An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh?

Or you could, I dunno, maybe consider that this is an incredibly biased source that has an agenda its trying to push?
dog

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16403 on: April 08, 2018, 09:54:41 PM »
An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh?

Or you could, I dunno, maybe consider that this is an incredibly biased source that has an agenda its trying to push?


Less or more biased than a government that now employs a war criminal and known war monger?

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16404 on: April 08, 2018, 09:55:12 PM »
About the same, I guess.
dog

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16405 on: April 08, 2018, 09:55:46 PM »
An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh?

Or you could, I dunno, maybe consider that this is an incredibly biased source that has an agenda its trying to push?


Less or more biased than a government that now employs a war criminal and known war monger?

Both?

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16406 on: April 08, 2018, 09:55:50 PM »
An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh?

Or you could, I dunno, maybe consider that this is an incredibly biased source that has an agenda its trying to push?


Less or more biased than a government that now employs a war criminal and known war monger?

You say that like we think Trump is any more trustworthy.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16407 on: April 08, 2018, 09:56:22 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16408 on: April 08, 2018, 09:58:23 PM »
please stop quoting sloppytoptimus

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16409 on: April 08, 2018, 10:02:34 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge


You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16410 on: April 08, 2018, 10:02:59 PM »
please stop quoting sloppytoptimus

Better here than he shitting on the Ree thread.

For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge


You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Ayyyy, LOL

How much the Kremlin pays you, or you do it for free?

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16411 on: April 08, 2018, 10:03:14 PM »
disagree

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16412 on: April 08, 2018, 10:08:44 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge


You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Chill, no one is freaking out. You're posting speculation by a known bullshit pr artist and keep insisting that he's predicted things. On top of that, you're using fake news mills as sources while insisting that everyone else needs to get redpilled :idont

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16413 on: April 08, 2018, 10:11:38 PM »
Optimus.

You say you're open-minded, so naturally that means you're willing to investigate multiple narratives and make a judgement on each of them, selecting the most credible story in the face of all evidence. So let me ask you, who do you trust more:

A) A dictatorship that assassinates all of its political opposition, assassinates its spies on foreign soil, provides weapons to other dictatorships and terrorist groups, and even is willing to bomb its own citizens in order to start a war and secure support for the new president (that book's author being assassinated just a few years later for exposing a real false flag) or

B) This administration who couldn't even hide its number one lackey Devin Nunes running into the White House to brief the president on a house investigation update. Or get Carter Page to shut the fuck up. Or get Stormy Daniels to abide by her non disclosure agreement?


CIA is the largest terrorist organization in the world that has spread misery, poverty and war throughout the globe so needless to say I don't trust them at all and I don't expect them to inform Trump about everything they're doing. Let me get this straight, I don't have a strong opinion on who did this but I definitely have an opinion on the morons who believe US propaganda about who did this especially since Assad would have nothing to win by doing this and everything to lose.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16414 on: April 08, 2018, 10:12:52 PM »

Broseidon

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16415 on: April 08, 2018, 10:13:48 PM »
hey optimus, there's been a couple hundred chlorine attacks during the war and the pro-Assad forces have made it a regular part of their warfare. More specifically, even in the last few months there have been several chlorine attacks on Douma (the affected area in this case) alone. Why is this specific attack suddenly part of an international false-flag CIA Mossad psy-op but none of the 200 other ones were?
bent

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16416 on: April 08, 2018, 10:26:23 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge


You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Chill, no one is freaking out. You're posting speculation by a known bullshit pr artist and keep insisting that he's predicted things. On top of that, you're using fake news mills as sources while insisting that everyone else needs to get redpilled :idont


...as opposed to the speculation that is being posted here by corporate media in collaboration with shady organizations like Fusion GPS... Speculation that has been proven false before... Speculation that has led to nowhere for 2 years now. This is what pisses me off with you people, you have this illusion that you're above fake news when you dipped head to toe in it. I on the other hand assume that everyone is trying to manipulate me.



hey optimus, there's been a couple hundred chlorine attacks during the war and the pro-Assad forces have made it a regular part of their warfare. More specifically, even in the last few months there have been several chlorine attacks on Douma (the affected area in this case) alone. Why is this specific attack suddenly part of an international false-flag CIA Mossad psy-op but none of the 200 other ones were?

Do you have any proof other than speculation and hearsay? Do you have any proof that the Muslim extremists that have also used chemical weapons before in other parts of Syria and Iraq aren't the ones using them given they're outgunned?  But sure, let's assume that the western media are always telling the truth and Russians are always lying because that's what we've been spoonfed to do.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16417 on: April 08, 2018, 10:30:20 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge

You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Predicted it or got out in front of things they knew were possible to happen in the future knowing what has already happened? Like they did last April?

I mean lets just throw a hypothetical out here, lets assume that Russia is an autocratic nation, that's leader has a history of doing things like bombing his own people to solidify power, funneling out any government dissent in the press(including through murder), and engaging and allowing allies to use incredibly controversial(and often highly illegal) means of solidifying power. Like looking the other way on hundreds of chlorine gas attacks on rebels and citizens threatening their geopolitical ally

What might that hypothetical country continually say publicly under those circumstances? I think they might say something like "These are not coming from the Assad government, they are rebel attacks that show their disdain for the citizenry and perhaps even a false flag. Also, these dangerous rebels and their western supporters will almost certainly do it again." You know, just to make sure they cover all their bases knowing their ally isn't going to stop.

They probably wouldn't offer any substantive evidence to support these assertions, they might also slow walk investigations in the international courts and refuse to pressure their allied government to comply with calls to remove all their chemical weapons supplies as an additional assurance.



Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16418 on: April 08, 2018, 10:37:04 PM »


...as opposed to the speculation that is being posted here by corporate media in collaboration with shady organizations like Fusion GPS... Speculation that has been proven false before... Speculation that has led to nowhere for 2 years now. This is what pisses me off with you people, you have this illusion that you're above fake news when you dipped head to toe in it. I on the other hand assume that everyone is trying to manipulate me.

Except for fucking Sergey Lavrov apparently  :neogaf


Quote
Do you have any proof other than speculation and hearsay? Do you have any proof that the Muslim extremists that have also used chemical weapons before in other parts of Syria and Iraq aren't the ones using them given they're outgunned?  But sure, let's assume that the western media are always telling the truth and Russians are always lying because that's what we've been spoonfed to do.

You are asking people to prove a negative, how about you start by proving that there is any evidence that the US was behind this recent attack?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
On second thought, don't.
[close]

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16419 on: April 08, 2018, 10:38:32 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge

You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Predicted it or got out in front of things they knew were possible to happen in the future knowing what has already happened? Like they did last April?

I mean lets just throw a hypothetical out here, lets assume that Russia is an autocratic nation, that's leader has a history of doing things like bombing his own people to solidify power, funneling out any government dissent in the press(including through murder), and engaging and allowing allies to use incredibly controversial(and often highly illegal) means of solidifying power. Like looking the other way on hundreds of chlorine gas attacks on rebels and citizens threatening their geopolitical ally

What might that hypothetical country continually say publicly under those circumstances? I think they might say something like "These are not coming from the Assad government, they are rebel attacks that show their disdain for the citizenry and perhaps even a false flag. Also, these dangerous rebels and their western supporters will almost certainly do it again." You know, just to make sure they cover all their bases knowing their ally isn't going to stop.

They probably wouldn't offer any substantive evidence to support these assertions, they might also slow walk investigations in the international courts and refuse to pressure their allied government to comply with calls to remove all their chemical weapons supplies.


Two can play that game.

Let's assume that USA is a malevolent superpower that has funded religious extremists before, has carried out huge false flag operations, has assassinated leaders many of them democratic, socialist or both, has invaded nations under false pretenses that were meticulously staged, has committed war crimes and is allies and aids other war criminals that are currently slaughtering civilians in Palestine and Yemen.

What might that hypothetical country do under those circumstances? I think they might do something like carry out yet another false flag in order to start another war.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16420 on: April 08, 2018, 10:39:06 PM »
tfw you get called out on posting links from a russian fake news site and then lash out at everyone else for being brainwashed morons


I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

why do you think the content of that interview is more remarkable than the source you chose to present us with?


An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh? Like I said, close-minded.

Holy shit you're dumb. There is no evidence that it's a false flag. He didn't "predict" anything. Assad has used chemical weapons before, it's not surprising that he'd use them again. Russian officials may not have even known it was going to happen.

What is the end game of this conspiracy? First Obama refuses to stumble into a massive military intervention in Syria, then the 2016 candidate promising to escalate tensions in Syria loses the election...and then Trump shows signs that he wants to pull out of Syria completely. Can someone explain when this mastermind plan results in the US sending thousands of ground troops to Syria.
010

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16421 on: April 08, 2018, 10:41:36 PM »
Assad would have nothing to win by doing this

That's not really true. From what I've read, Syrian forces have been assaulting that city for a couple months, and negotiations for the insurgents to evacuate had broken down. Driving out either the insurgents themselves or the population (which rebel groups rely on for material support) are pretty big goals, and it's pretty clear why someone might see CW as a good way to do that (sparing your own forces casualties, among other things).

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16422 on: April 08, 2018, 10:42:02 PM »
For a prediction to be accurate, it has to have some degree of accuracy and proof, not speculation.

That's like me saying "watch, there's going to be a drought in california sometime in the next few years and that it's a false flag staged by the round-earth globalists to make it seem like there's climate change"

it's utter nonsense, but I predicted the drought!  :doge

You're in a thread that posts nothing but speculation and hearsay regarding Russian conspiracies but they freak out when speculation and hearsay that actually predicted an event that just happened is posted. Can you not see the vast hypocrisy in that?

Predicted it or got out in front of things they knew were possible to happen in the future knowing what has already happened? Like they did last April?

I mean lets just throw a hypothetical out here, lets assume that Russia is an autocratic nation, that's leader has a history of doing things like bombing his own people to solidify power, funneling out any government dissent in the press(including through murder), and engaging and allowing allies to use incredibly controversial(and often highly illegal) means of solidifying power. Like looking the other way on hundreds of chlorine gas attacks on rebels and citizens threatening their geopolitical ally

What might that hypothetical country continually say publicly under those circumstances? I think they might say something like "These are not coming from the Assad government, they are rebel attacks that show their disdain for the citizenry and perhaps even a false flag. Also, these dangerous rebels and their western supporters will almost certainly do it again." You know, just to make sure they cover all their bases knowing their ally isn't going to stop.

They probably wouldn't offer any substantive evidence to support these assertions, they might also slow walk investigations in the international courts and refuse to pressure their allied government to comply with calls to remove all their chemical weapons supplies.


Two can play that game.

Let's assume that USA is a malevolent superpower that has funded religious extremists before, has carried out huge false flag operations, has assassinated leaders many of them democratic, socialist or both, has invaded nations under false pretenses that were meticulously staged, has committed war crimes and is allies and aids other war criminals that are currently slaughtering civilians in Palestine and Yemen.

What might that hypothetical country do under those circumstances? I think they might do something like carry out yet another false flag in order to start another war.


Motherfucker, both countries have acted like assholes, why trust one above the other to begin with?

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16423 on: April 08, 2018, 10:43:40 PM »
Can someone explain when this mastermind plan results in the US sending thousands of ground troops to Syria.

Well...

Quote
There are about 2,000 U.S. troops deployed in Syria, the Pentagon said Wednesday — a number that is four times more than any official figure that U.S. officials have previously acknowledged, and yet still lower than at the height of operations in Syria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/12/06/there-are-four-times-as-many-u-s-troops-in-syria-as-previously-acknowledged-by-the-pentagon/?utm_term=.c48ec7a923ab

Optimus vindicated, Bore sheeple annihilated

Optimus

  • Lieutenant colonel, 26th Hate Machine battalion
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16424 on: April 08, 2018, 10:49:17 PM »
tfw you get called out on posting links from a russian fake news site and then lash out at everyone else for being brainwashed morons


I posted an interview that is 100% true. I had already read about it when it was released and I just used the first result I found on duckduckgo. The fact that you geniuses attack the source instead of the content is indicative of your complete an utter denial.

why do you think the content of that interview is more remarkable than the source you chose to present us with?


An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh? Like I said, close-minded.

Holy shit you're dumb. There is no evidence that it's a false flag. He didn't "predict" anything. Assad has used chemical weapons before, it's not surprising that he'd use them again. Russian officials may not have even known it was going to happen.

What is the end game of this conspiracy? First Obama refuses to stumble into a massive military intervention in Syria, then the 2016 candidate promising to escalate tensions in Syria loses the election...and then Trump shows signs that he wants to pull out of Syria completely. Can someone explain when this mastermind plan results in the US sending thousands of ground troops to Syria.


Obama didn't exactly refuse to stumble into a massive military intervention in Syria, Obama and specifically his rabid attack dog, Clinton, wanted to do to Syria exactly what they did to Libya. He just started to rethink it when the Russians got seriously involved to avoid a serious incident.

And let's see what happens next before deciding that the hypothesis is ridiculous because Trump will pull out of Syria. The psychopath he appointed might disagree on that one.

Optimus

  • Lieutenant colonel, 26th Hate Machine battalion
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16425 on: April 08, 2018, 10:51:57 PM »
Motherfucker, both countries have acted like assholes, why trust one above the other to begin with?


I don't, that's my whole point. I offer the perspective of the other side that is never considered here because people think that anything other than Western propaganda is fake news.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16426 on: April 08, 2018, 10:52:03 PM »


Two can play that game.

Let's assume that USA is a malevolent superpower that has funded religious extremists before, has carried out huge false flag operations, has assassinated leaders many of them democratic, socialist or both, has invaded nations under false pretenses that were meticulously staged, has committed war crimes and is allies and aids other war criminals that are currently slaughtering civilians in Palestine and Yemen.

What might that hypothetical country do under those circumstances? I think they might do something like carry out yet another false flag in order to start another war.
Setting aside the dangerous simplicity of that logic you use, it begs the question why you would come down on the side of Russia in this instance if you concede both to be true statements? When in this instance there is no good reason to do so? Including total lack of evidence.

By your logic, you are basically saying that as long as another government mouthpiece is asserting the US is responsible for whatever atrocity in the world they or an ally of their's may yet commit, your default is to believe them. Even with zero evidence. That is about the opposite of open-minded and skeptical.

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16427 on: April 08, 2018, 10:53:28 PM »
An interview of a Russian official predicting that the US will carry out a false flag to use as an excuse to increase the attacks on Syria just a few weeks before the exact attack they predicted happened isn't relevant, huh? Like I said, close-minded.
I guess you're too 'open minded' to realize it, but they didn't predict shit.

Did they know another chemical attack will happen? Maybe.
Did they have intel it's a false flag? Maybe.

Combining these into a 'prediction' and then going "told ya!" when another chemical attack happens doesn't actually prove anything. The only assumptions it supports is that they likely knew another chemical attack would happen, which we already know is plausible, since, you know, they're aiding Assad.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16428 on: April 08, 2018, 10:54:36 PM »
Motherfucker, both countries have acted like assholes, why trust one above the other to begin with?


I don't, that's my whole point. I offer the perspective of the other side that is never considered here because people think that anything other than Western propaganda is fake news.

The other side is a shitty as the one you mainly bitch about, maybe more.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16429 on: April 08, 2018, 10:56:14 PM »
If this is actually the third false flag in Syria, all of them designed to justify a full ground invasion by the US, then they're not working. It's like all the mass shootings being staged so the government can seize the guns. They never actually seize the guns but keep faking shootings thinking it will work next time.

I guess the lesson is that false flags have bad ROI.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16430 on: April 08, 2018, 10:57:30 PM »
Gonna need some citations. Or maybe you just read Obama's mind. Obama's...dithering on the "red line" occurred before Russia moved anti aircraft defenses into Syria. Unless I'm mistaken. I wouldn't want to spread fake news  :doge

You act like Bolton is in control of Trump and the Joint Chiefs. Yea Bolton is terrible but I see no sign that the US is going to spark a war with Russia in Syria. For what? What has Trump done lately to suggest this. Pointing to Bolton is weak; you might as well argue we're going to invade Iran and every adversarial country in the ME.

The only end game I see is you arguing "of course Russia had to invade Syria with tens of thousands of troops, it was the only way to prevent the US from STARTING A WAR" in a few months. You know, because you tend to post like a Russian bot.
010

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16431 on: April 08, 2018, 11:05:26 PM »
Motherfucker, both countries have acted like assholes, why trust one above the other to begin with?


I don't, that's my whole point. I offer the perspective of the other side that is never considered here because people think that anything other than Western propaganda is fake news.

The other side is a shitty as the one you mainly bitch about, maybe more.


As far as propaganda and disinformation is concerned I agree, as far as foreign policy is concerned I strongly disagree, the US makes Russia look like a fucking saint considering the war crimes they committed and endless war and death they and their allies have caused even just during the Putin years. I have no idea if Putin would be as imperialistic as the US if he was equally powerful but as it stands he's a cute little puppy compared to the US government.



Gonna need some citations. Or maybe you just read Obama's mind. Obama's...dithering on the "red line" occurred before Russia moved anti aircraft defenses into Syria. Unless I'm mistaken. I wouldn't want to spread fake news  :doge

You act like Bolton is in control of Trump and the Joint Chiefs. Yea Bolton is terrible but I see no sign that the US is going to spark a war with Russia in Syria. For what? What has Trump done lately to suggest this. Pointing to Bolton is weak; you might as well argue we're going to invade Iran and every adversarial country in the ME.

The only end game I see is you arguing "of course Russia had to invade Syria with tens of thousands of troops, it was the only way to prevent the US from STARTING A WAR" in a few months. You know, because you tend to post like a Russian bot.

OK, we'll see. And I'm saying it in a condescending or sarcastic way, I'm honestly waiting to see what will happen next because I just don't know.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16432 on: April 08, 2018, 11:12:38 PM »
Yeah, there were a ton of reports at the time about Obama being pressured by both his generals and by allies (NATO and ME, I think) to make a bigger commitment in Syria.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16433 on: April 08, 2018, 11:12:54 PM »
LOL Optimus, Putin probably could care less about the world than Trump. You don’t need to be ProUSAImperialism to acknowledge Russia fair share of atrocities.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16434 on: April 08, 2018, 11:18:53 PM »
But you do know what's going to happen: the US will start a war. This is what you've been saying for months so I assume you believe it's gonna happen. It's what many people on your side of the aisle have been saying for months. It's one of the reasons you wanted Hillary to lose. Now Trump has revealed himself to be a neoliberal warmonger too (evidence: Bolton) so obviously the US will start a war right?!? Right?! Any day now.

My view? We're not going to start a war. What's gonna happen besides that? Who knows. Assad probably wins out in the end though right?
010

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16435 on: April 08, 2018, 11:24:53 PM »
Motherfucker, both countries have acted like assholes, why trust one above the other to begin with?


I don't, that's my whole point. I offer the perspective of the other side that is never considered here because people think that anything other than Western propaganda is fake news.

You are offering the unsubstantiated words of Sergey Lavrov filtered through a fake news/conspiracy website, a minister that often serves as a literal mouthpiece for Russian propaganda, not a Jacobin piece or even some well sourced report from outside the normal english language news bubble.

Come on now.



As far as propaganda and disinformation is concerned I agree, as far as foreign policy is concerned I strongly disagree, the US makes Russia look like a fucking saint considering the war crimes they committed and endless war and death they and their allies have caused even just during the Putin years. I have no idea if Putin would be as imperialistic as the US if he was equally powerful but as it stands he's a cute little puppy compared to the US government.


I'm not a big fan of a lot of America's actions around the world either, especially historically, but handing the hegemon power to Soviet-nostalgic Putin and authoritarian China is a hard argument to sell.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:38:07 PM by Nola »

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16436 on: April 08, 2018, 11:59:33 PM »
Motherfucker, both countries have acted like assholes, why trust one above the other to begin with?


I don't, that's my whole point. I offer the perspective of the other side that is never considered here because people think that anything other than Western propaganda is fake news.

You are offering the unsubstantiated words of Sergey Lavrov filtered through a fake news/conspiracy website, a minister that often serves as a literal mouthpiece for Russian propaganda, not a Jacobin piece or even some well sourced report from outside the normal english language news bubble.

Come on now.


Just like you're offering unsubstantiated words of Western officials and corporate media that are just as bloodthirsty as the politicians themselves. I also have no idea why you fuckers keep obsessing over that fucking site even though the interview is true which is all I cared about when I was searching for the story.


Quote
I'm not a big fan of a lot of America's actions around the world either, especially historically, but handing the hegemon power to Soviet-nostalgic Putin and authoritarian China is a hard argument to sell.

Never suggested or even implied that. China in particular is a dystopian nightmare especially now with their new surveillance and social credit system, if they try to spread that cancer humanity is done. How about a world without one imperialist superpower that fucks up entire continents and constantly commits endless atrocities?

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16437 on: April 09, 2018, 12:05:23 AM »
I think Optimus is backpedaling cause the lizard people got to him.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16438 on: April 09, 2018, 12:06:56 AM »
Yo, ask him about BLM being an astroturf effort by Hollywood liberals to divert activist energy from economic populism.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16439 on: April 09, 2018, 12:11:50 AM »






Just like you're offering unsubstantiated words of Western officials and corporate media that are just as bloodthirsty as the politicians themselves. I also have no idea why you fuckers keep obsessing over that fucking site even though the interview is true which is all I cared about when I was searching for the story.

Link me if I'm wrong, but I have not quoted any words from a western official as any component of my argument. I think what I did do is question both the substance(or the lack thereof), the slight spin(or lack of proper context), and your logic with regards to this story.

Quote
Never suggested or even implied that. China in particular is a dystopian nightmare especially now with their new surveillance and social credit system, if they try to spread that cancer humanity is done. How about a world without one imperialist superpower that fucks up entire continents and constantly commits endless atrocities?

Sounds awesome, but how do you propose we achieve that?

America's unilateral retreat into a full on isolationist country merely means Russia, China, and maybe if we are lucky the EU fill that vacuum. And it is hard for me to see how on net the world would be better off? How America would be better off? How less atrocities and human rights violations would occur?