US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[benjipwns]

PD's fav:

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1020356232866074624

 

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1020045682823057409

[Mandark]

https://twitter.com/MehrsaBaradaran/status/1020053725723815936

had to lol at someone getting so offended over an undergrad's paper being signal boosted, also calling it "completely garbage argument"

benji, you're way, way wrong on this one

[benjipwns]

i already didn't but apparently did call him a racist, what more do you want:

i agree there's not really anything worth quoting in that paper, most people in the thread who clicked through read to exactly the point i would have guessed anyway

So he's a racist? You concluded that immediately upon reading the very beginning of it? I'm lost here because then you say it's not a bad paper.

[Mandark]

I mean "gosh, I just have to laugh at this woman!" is shittier than your usual trolling-comment-sections condescension level, and shittier in the context of what she's talking about.

[Mandark]

"she's angry that any black person willing to talk shit about black people to a white audience immediately gets fast-tracked to media prominence, haw haw haw she's so mad haw haw"

[benjipwns]

you trolling me?

she's seemingly actually really mad about an undergrad paper posted on a crappy blog (praised by Daddy P for standing up to what Marxist Academia doesn't want you to know) that Sam Harris and Charles Murray tweeted about, the kid only mentions one part of her book, never claims to "debunk" it and is as noted a fucking undergrad, it should be totally beneath her to give it public notice, let alone get that upset about it and publicly throw a shit fit over it to where she fired off like 50 tweets, a quarter of them just reaction gifs... this is something she actually admits later and says its Sam Harris' fault for misleading her but still goes on and RT's other dorks threads about it since she never actually does anything but insult the paper/people and relied on those threads to explain why it's wrong

[shosta]

you trolling me?

Well, it is Mandark.

[Mandark]

Any black person who's willing to tell a white audience that black people are deficient or pathological will be rewarded and have their message amplified, and if you don't understand why that would upset other black people, I don't know how to explain it to you.

[agrajag]

when the troll gets trolled

[benjipwns]

if you don't understand why that would upset other black people, I don't know how to explain it to you.

she's a mormon iranian

[Mandark]

fair enough

you still wrong tho

[shosta]

No, he's talking about @coldxman.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or Thomas Sowell.

[close]

Edit: now I don't understand benji's post 

[benjipwns]

it's a undergrad paper being boosted by Charles Murray and Sam Harris because it ties into their latest kerfluffles, her book was barely mentioned, it's not worth a shit fit on twitter over, let alone insulting the "undergrad kid" who is fifty levels beneath her, this tweet an hour earlier was all she needed really:
https://twitter.com/MehrsaBaradaran/status/1020041114189901825

he replied to her but she should have ignored it after seeing he follows GregGutfeld and thus is more than a lost cause already
https://twitter.com/MehrsaBaradaran/status/1020073920542593024
https://twitter.com/MehrsaBaradaran/status/1020075069739958274

[benjipwns]

just more dangers of women on social media

[Nintex]

Dumb nintex posts aside, outside of regulatory issues, I don’t think there is actually that much distance between the fed interest rate policy that a number of people on the left generally prefer for the moment and the one Trump prefers right now(and based on his grasp of fed policy, probably forever). Though for seemingly much more legitimate reasons than Trump channeling Erdogan and forever blindly chasing risky maximum short term growth through a warped and eventually self-defeating view of monetary policy.

Trump is likely just one bucket of KFC away from a heart attack. For him there is no 'long term' goal. The goal is simple. To keep the economy in overdrive for the next 4 - 6 years so he goes into the history books as some sort of new conservative idol like Ronald Reagan. Like with Reagan who got followed up by Bush, whoever comes next (Nikki Haley) will probably have to deal with the long term policies.

When the Trump show is over and the two factions return to reality the real issues like the debt, climate change, environmental problems, the complete and total lack of healthcare and the ever growing rift between the EU and US on defense policy becomes clear. The next President will have a ton of issues to deal with that are simply not getting any headlines because of playboy models, Russia, Fox News interviews with Rudy or any of the other clowns in his orbit.

And I also believe we don't have to worry about Trump sticking past two terms. After all, there's nothing he'd like to do more than to finish his two terms in office and then head to Twitter to shit on the next President for fucking everything up.

Trump's approach might actually work though. Because so far 'long term' economic and foreign policy planning in most cases didn't work. Because you can't predict what's going to happen no matter what data or models you throw at it.
So Trump's reactionary way of governing is an interesting case study and after all we've seen between 2001 and 2016 the best way to govern might actually be to run the short gravy trains as best you can until the next depression hits.

[benjipwns]

When the Trump show is over and the two factions return to reality the real issues like the debt, climate change, environmental problems, the complete and total lack of healthcare and the ever growing rift between the EU and US on defense policy becomes clear.

The only real disagreement in the "factions" of the GOP are immigration. Trump appoints certain people like John Bolton and suddenly he's "serious" on foreign policy or at least it's in good enough hands for that set.

The rest is just tax cuts and fighting culture wars publicly while trying to figure out the exact minimal amount of actual action needed to satisfy the donors.

[Mandark]

I'm not sure "he's just an undergrad!" cuts in the direction you think.

The fact that they're already reserving a seat for him among the Intellectual Wank Dads shows just how much support there is for a black person willing to go the Thomas Sowell/Candace Owens route. Which has to be especially galling cause racial issues in economics are typically seen as unimportant and niche.

Like what are the odds that within a year more people know about Hughes than know about Sandy Darity? 50/50?

[shosta]

Who cares how many people "know" about this Hughes kid? And why are you so incensed over it? The wank dad circle started as and continues to be a reactionary bubble, it shouldn't surprise you that they're really invested in selling their own particular school of thought. It isn't evidence of some cancerous underlying hunger for black people to betray their own or whatever, anymore than the usual phenomena of people generally liking examples which run counter to intuition.

An academic of merit shouldn't feel threatened by an undergraduate who made it onto some faux-libertarian blog and gets retweeted by Sam Harris (lol). The panty twisting is funny and if you aren't laughing, too, you've lost some perspective here.

[agrajag]

benji using his alt account to agree with himself, such underhanded tactics would make Mike Cernovich proud

[Mandark]

Shosta, you seem worked up. Breathe.

[benjipwns]

well, that's my bias, undergrads and grads get invited to conferences all the time with garbage...we had a grad paper go to a major regional conference and win the conferences award for best paper and presentation and the entire thing was plagiarized and an incoherent mess if you actually read it because it was stitched together from fifteen different sources, not to mention the model made even less sense and the results table violated every known standard to man

getting invited to Wank Dad Con certainly isn't going to make him a competitor in her field or even her side-publishing on economics...Thomas Sowell actually was in formal academia at least, kid might flame out completely in a year, or have to chase the "reformed conservative insider" route in five

the undergrad thing to me from a chaired law professor just seems like it's massive... "punching down"

[shosta]

Shosta, you seem worked up. Breathe.

I'm not worked up, but it seemed like you are!

[benjipwns]

I'M NOT WORKED UP BUT EVERYBODY ELSE SURE IS!!!! *knocks over magazine rack*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

especially the magazine rack with the body building magazines

[close]

[Mandark]

I think he'd be a sucker to stay in academia instead of immediately cashing in. Candace Owens never finished her bachelors and her boosters don't give a shit.

[Mandark]

And I get that he's not an academic threat, but odds are it'll be much easier for him to get his views amplified and broadcast to a broad audience, including to receptive policymakers.

Like we still have tons of people riding for a bowdlerized version of Austrian economics, even after all these years.

[benjipwns]

did you read the paper or the conclusion? i'm not particularly concerned about him becoming anyone relevant, and that was before i knew he followed Greg Gutfeld on twitter, it's mostly just regurgitated same ol same ol "not really saying it but it's totally inherent in that there genetic culture" and the small part of Dr. Baradran's book he basically counters by saying "look at this other dataset instead because i say it's more important"

the fact that Sam Harris and Charles Murray are so desperate to attach themselves to it is kinda sad, they used to be somebody, this faux-academic racket needs an enema

[Mandark]

Yeah, the conclusion was basically "liberals don't want to admit it's culture, conservatives know it's culture but are powerless to change it cause they don't have black friends," right?

I think it's uncharacteristically optimistic of you to think this guy won't get some prominent platforms because his arguments are unoriginal.

[shosta]

Benji, with your media viewing habits being what they are, I'm honestly surprised you don't like Greg Gutfeld, even in a semi-ironic way. At least admit Katherine Timpf is funny.

[benjipwns]

Yeah, the conclusion was basically "liberals don't want to admit it's culture, conservatives know it's culture but are powerless to change it cause they don't have black friends," right?

I think it's uncharacteristically optimistic of you to think this guy won't get some prominent platforms because his arguments are unoriginal.

Actually, it's more that I'm unsure he'll be able to articulate the viewpoint well enough, especially when he can't even rip it off well for his supposedly groundbreaking paper. But I'll have to wait until he's on Sam Harris' podcast or Joe Rogan or the Wank Dad Con to know if he's got any bullshittery charisma.

Benji, with your media viewing habits being what they are, I'm honestly surprised you don't like Greg Gutfeld, even in a semi-ironic way. At least admit Katherine Timpf is funny.

Greg became a humorless putz years ago. Around the time The Five took off and his devil's advocate conservatism became his actual worldview.

[shosta]

and yet you'll watch Lou Dobbs on a McDonald's TV where the captions take up half the screen

[shosta]

wait lol I found the best quote in that essay

Just like no person is born knowing how to brew beer or play basketball, no person is born knowing how to build wealth. These skills must be taught. And just like some cultures teach beer-brewing or basketball-playing better than others, some cultures teach wealth-building better.

[benjipwns]

i'll cross the streams

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3570734689001/



http://video.foxnews.com/v/4283397040001/

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3031876956001/

[benjipwns]

this was the one i was looking for:
https://www.facebook.com/GregGutfeldShow/videos/in-this-week's-open-greg/1594414374160974/

[curly]

wait lol I found the best quote in that essay

Just like no person is born knowing how to brew beer or play basketball, no person is born knowing how to build wealth. These skills must be taught. And just like some cultures teach beer-brewing or basketball-playing better than others, some cultures teach wealth-building better.

listen do you think it's a coincidence that Lithuania consistently wins medals in olympic basketball

[benjipwns]

Jim Vigars
Do you have any idea how terrible your show is ? Your humour and mannerisms are weaselly and creepy. Only on FOX would you and your cast of idiots have a show!

[Mandark]

Slavery Did Not Make America Rich

Economists have been thinking about such issues for half a century. You wouldn't know it from the King Cottoners. They assert, for example, that a slave was "cheap labor." Mistaken again. After all, slaves ate, and they didn't produce until they grew up. Stanley Engerman and the late Nobel Prize winner Robert Fogel confirmed in 1974 what economic common sense would suggest: that productivity was incorporated into the market price of a slave. It's how any capital market works. If you bought a slave, you faced the cost of alternative uses of the capital. No supernormal profits accrued from the purchase. Slave labor was not a free lunch. The wealth was not piled up.

...

Taxation is a slavery admired by most of the left and much of the right. Its defenses echo Southern rhetoric in 1860. "Citizens are children who need to be protected, yet forced to work." "Liberty is dangerous." "The defense of property depends on a big government." "God ordained it."

Taxation is slavery, the federal debt is slavery, labor laws are slavery, Obamacare is slavery.

Everything is slavery!  Except slavery, which really wasn't all that bad.

[benjipwns]

wow, first, she's from Ann Arbor so learning to read and write is a huge accomplishment, and second, your transphobia will be noted with marrec's

the proper response is as always in the comments:

Fist of Etiquette|7.19.18 @ 8:41AM|#

So what you're saying is that we're all slaves to the cotton gin and one day robots will replace us all.

[shosta]

How do you remember all of your greatest hits like that without writing them down somewhere

[benjipwns]

wait, better

loveconstitution1789|7.19.18 @ 8:53AM|#

Democrats who defended slavery from America's founding until the Civil War wanted the state to control lives which is what they still want.

found Mandark's comment:

Stephen Lathrop|7.19.18 @ 11:54AM|#

Note also, the photograph used to illustrate this article is pretty clearly a post-slavery photo of field hands in the American South—maybe a 20th century picture. Not sure what to make of that, but the fact that someone thinks you can communicate the reality of slavery with a picture of non-slavery presents a many-layered conundrum worth pondering.

[benjipwns]

also the important issues:

rferris|7.19.18 @ 7:17PM|#

I really like the writing, so when I was at Freedom Fest and had a chance to speak to the author I was very disapointed that barely into my question she called me a Fascist. I was amazed! The next person, a Russian escapee got even less far before being called a Fascist.
This is NOT so good from a professor in communication, attacking an admirer without even the courtesy of hearing me out.
I think writing from the ivory tower and not speaking to actual people would be best for poor Deirdre


Mark22|7.20.18 @ 1:34AM|#

I had a chance to talk to her. In my opinion, she's a jerk and not much of a economist.

JERK DEBUNKED

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i've actually seen her do basically this same thing during a post-presentation Q&A in a video a couple years ago

[close]

[Mandark]

Oof, I've also heard that the author is a dick from someone who worked with her, though I can't remember the details now.

How do you remember all of your greatest hits like that without writing them down somewhere

You really don't need to worry about this sort of stuff until you have some good posts.

[Kara]

For some reason "this person saying racist things about black people but with specious academics isn't going to go anywhere brehs" rings kind of hollow in 2018, 1.5 years into the presidency of Donald Trump. Can't put my finger on why though.

[benjipwns]

fine, i'll have the Kochs fund an award for Dr. Baradaran for her brave tweet storm of reaction gifs and as soft moist as the paper mockery/insults

then everybody's happy

except Lou Dobbs

[Mandark]

"Black person who blames black people" is a top-3 failsafe grift, along with anti-Trump Republican and blonde girl who loves the 2nd amendment.

[Kara]

Since we're talking about racist nü-atheists, who was surprised when Dicky Dawkins praised church bells contra the adhan the other day? Deathbed convert walking.

[Mandark]

Yeah, saw that and some of the comment thread on Twitter.

"It's not xenophobic or anti-Muslim, he just said he finds church bells more soothing cause he grew up with them!" Famous lover of churches, Richard Dawkins.

[benjipwns]

"It's not xenophobic or anti-Muslim, he just said he finds church bells more soothing cause he grew up with them!" Famous lover of churches, Richard Dawkins.

exactly right, and maybe he just wants to have something again:

When the family returned to England, he went to a C of E school, was confirmed, and embraced Christianity until his mid-teens.

So what changed? "I suppose that by that time the main residual reason why I was religious was from being so impressed with the complexity of life and feeling that it had to have a designer, and I think it was when I realised that Darwinism was a far superior explanation that pulled the rug out from under the argument of design. And that left me with nothing."

[seagrams hotsauce]

that shit was hilarious. 'immigration is bad cuz we have bells.' bells were invented in china you shithead

[Nola]

In my youth I would be all over this culture vs. structural wealth gap debate, and was, but it really is hard for me to muster up the energy these days when it seems like so much of the debate is just that same underlying patterns, from the same archetypes on the right, being paved over with new inflection points that when scrutinized tend to fall apart at the seams. Only they don't fall away because the right will run to prop up these people as beacons of intellectualism that are exposing forbidden knowledge that the left won't admit is true(mostly because it turns out not to be, or at least heavily misleading).

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Like the Coleman piece isn't entirely wrong in that cultural pathologies do seem to matter to an extent, it wasn't wrong 10 years ago either, but somehow he builds to a conclusion that we should all but abandon structural solutions without actually qualifying why his proposal actually is superior(or even effective). Like is the case with conservatives on almost any other issue they seem to run away from reality on because they were a large part of its inception, there is a persistent pattern of cherry picking to fit a narrative, that attempts to knock down a misstated assertion that favors the lefts solutions, and the result tends to always amount to intellectual dishonesty that conveniently ends up promoting boiler plate Republican solutions that the author just ignored the entire surrounding debate of their efficacy during his piece. For instance he's not disproving that cash transfers don't help alleviate inequality, or structural solutions, or actually showing why bootstrap policy is somehow superior, it's mostly just a bunch of smoke and mirrors that amount to roundabout ways to prop up disproven Republican tent poles.

[close]

[kingv]

Any black person who's willing to tell a white audience that black people are deficient or pathological will be rewarded and have their message amplified, and if you don't understand why that would upset other black people, I don't know how to explain it to you.

Haters gonna hate?

[curly]

His followup was even better imo:

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1019566464569892866

I am so SICK of hearing suicide bombers yelling allahu akbar, you can't go outside these days without someone yelling "God is the greatest" at you before blowing themselves up

[kingv]

For some reason "this person saying racist things about black people but with specious academics isn't going to go anywhere brehs" rings kind of hollow in 2018, 1.5 years into the presidency of Donald Trump. Can't put my finger on why though.

Sometimes I feel like he whole world, including msyslef and the other posters here have sort of lost track of how much of an stupid, gullible piece of suit trump actually is.

Like go look at some of his tweets from his birther era and marvel that somehow this guy that thinks Obama is faking his identity was elected President.

Russian interference or no, it really is a testament to how shitty of a campaigner Hillary is. Somehow, getting housed in a primary in 2008 by some first term senator that nobody had barely ever heard of outside of giv8ng a really good speech one time at a convention should have been a warning sign, but we forgot because Obama ended up getting elected and performing well enough at the job.

[kingv]

that shit was hilarious. 'immigration is bad cuz we have bells.' bells were invented in china you shithead

I never thought about it before, but Ringalingaling is racist af.

[agrajag]

it really is a testament to how shitty of a campaigner Hillary is.

Paging Jack Remington.

[Mandark]

Wary of leaning too far into "Trump won cause Hillary was a bad candidate," cause the bigger problem is that Trump's schtick plays well to a lot of people and that's going to be a problem after he's gone (and was a problem before he ran).

[curly]

For some reason "this person saying racist things about black people but with specious academics isn't going to go anywhere brehs" rings kind of hollow in 2018, 1.5 years into the presidency of Donald Trump. Can't put my finger on why though.

Russian interference or no, it really is a testament to how shitty of a campaigner Hillary is. Somehow, getting housed in a primary in 2008 by some first term senator that nobody had barely ever heard of outside of giv8ng a really good speech one time at a convention should have been a warning sign, but we forgot because Obama ended up getting elected and performing well enough at the job.

It's a pointless exercise but I wonder how Hillary would have done against a more conventional politician like Rubio. She's sort of the perfect foil to an opponent who's selling themselves on their authenticity and outsider status (Trump, Obama, Sanders).

[Mandark]

My (not at all confident) guess is a generic Republican would've done better in the popular vote but had a tougher map.

[benjipwns]

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article215241865.html

Leading moderate Democrats forcefully argued this week that the party can embrace a robust agenda of change while still praising capitalism and downplaying income inequality.

The longtime Washington-based group was unveiling the findings of a year-long assessment launched after the 2016 election, hoping to convince potential presidential contenders that they don’t have to adopt the hard-left agenda and style of a Bernie Sanders progressive.

Included in its report were a dozen big-picture policy recommendations — such as adopting a robust apprenticeship program and expanded unemployment insurance to help workers find new jobs — and encouragement to bypass talk of income inequality for an emphasis on creating opportunity.

Third Way officials even attempted to remove the “moderate” moniker from the event, encouraging those in attendance to call themselves “opportunity Democrats.” (The event itself was labeled “Opportunity 2020.”)

“Once again, the time has come to mend, but not end, capitalism for a new era,” said Jonathan Cowan, Third Way’s president, in a sweeping speech outlining his group’s study.

Lanae Erickson Hatalsky, vice president for social policy and politics at Third Way, said a poll conducted by the group found voters — including many Democrats — responded more positively to a message that emphasized creating economic opportunity over income inequality. The opportunity message, she said, “trounced the other Democratic approaches on the table with the voters we need to win in a general election.”

Other Democrats in attendance were harsher in their assessments of the party’s liberal wing.

“A small but vocal subgroup that is unhinged from evidence will be wrong in the long run, regardless of how loud they are,” said Iowa state Sen. Jeff Danielson, in an interview.

But don't worry Optimus, not all Democrats are evil liberals, some are ferociously liberal: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/us/politics/democratic-party-midterms.html

Voters like Ms. Conner may not represent a controlling faction in the Democratic Party, at least not yet. But they are increasingly rattling primary elections around the country, and they promise to grow as a disruptive force in national elections as younger voters reject the traditional boundary lines of Democratic politics.

Energized to take on President Trump, these voters are also seeking to remake their own party as a ferocious — and ferociously liberal — opposition force. And many appear as focused on forcing progressive policies into the midterm debate as they are on defeating Republicans.

The impact of these activists in the 2018 election has been limited but revealing: Only about a sixth of Democratic congressional nominees so far have a formal affiliation with one of several important insurgent groups. Fifty-three of the 305 candidates have been endorsed by the Justice Democrats, the Working Families Party, the Progressive Change Campaign and Our Revolution, organizations that have helped propel challenges to Democratic incumbents.

Robert B
Brooklyn, NY6h ago
Times Pick
I voted for Sanders in the primary, but those profiled here didn't care that in facing a despot like Trump they needed to stop using self-righteousness as a justification for helping him destroy the country. They still don't care.

W.A. Spitzer
Faywood, NM8h ago
Sometimes I think that Bernie supporters and Progressives are nearly as dumb as the people who voted for Donald Trump. In 2016 they were warned that if they sat on their hands or voted third party the country would elect Trump and they would end up with a conservative Supreme Court for the nest 30 years. But no; they were too smart to listen. You would think they would have learned something. Backing their favorite candidate is great fun, but it doesn't mean anything if they don't win. They need to learn how to count. It is far better to back a candidate that can win, who you will be able to communicate with and talk to, then backing your perfect candidate who doesn't have a serious (count ALL the votes) chance.   

ddcat
queens, ny7h ago
Times Pick
Running on Abolishing ICE is a loser.  I see Democrats defeating themselves once again.  And Ocasio-Coretz?  She grew up in the Bronx like Trump grew up in the Bronx.  She didn't. My mom did though.  The South Bronx as a matter of fact.   For Ocasio-Cortez to lie about or obfuscate her upbringing is ridiculous.  If she wants respect and believability, she must start with presenting herself truthfully.  And learning about Israel so she can speak with at least a smidgen of knowledge. This comes from me, a life-long Democrat.

Lots of questions to be asked first before the NY Times puts the golden crown on their progressive readers' choice.

Pajaritomt
New Mexico8h ago
I am a lifelong Democrat and I have always supported the party with my money, my vote and my activism.  I am very angry when the new leftists accuse the Democratic party of corruption.  They don't seem to understand that the Party belongs to those who work for it and they rule the roost.   If these young progressives jump in and participate they will control the party -- if there are enough of them.  Insulting long time loyal Democrats will not work for those who have worked for the party for many years.
      I resent being told I am corrupt without evidence.  This is not how one produces party unity.  Nor is deciding that the Party should not be one of identity politics.   Many of us are Democrats because they are the only party the represents -- women, blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, and LBGT's.   Let the party respect that many of us choose it because we identify with groups that are discriminated against by Republicans.  The new progressives need to realize that they are not in charge yet and that the party must act on behalf of all members.
     Many Democrats are old.  The young progressives should not attack us and our ideas.  There wouldn't have been a party to join if it had not been for us.  Someday, hopefully, young Progressives will take over the Party.  But until they do, they should not attack the rest of us and, in fact, they should not attack party members after they take control.  Let them save their attacks for the Republicans!

[curly]

Listening to Third Way types always sends me into optimus-esque apoplexy

"opportunity democrats" fuck you you worthless pieces of shit

[benjipwns]

Listening to Third Way types always sends me into optimus-esque apoplexy

"opportunity democrats" fuck you you worthless pieces of shit

Opportunity 2020