US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[nachobro]

once biden loses to trump he can retire to little st james and import all the youths he wants

[Mandark]

I get that and all but this is about an identity crisis for the Democratic Party as much as it is about needing a solution to beat Donald Trump and at the end of the day Liz made her rep for guys like me on her willingness to hold finance accountable, to push for a rawlsian conception of a good society which is inherently social democratic. I want to see her pick between the beliefs that made her popular or the party that made her popular as someone who once took heart from watching her be a voice for decency in the American reichstag.

I haven't followed the day-to-day campaign stuff too closely and I do remember her campaign deciding that being the candidate of "party unity" was the way to go until she flayed Bloomberg, but was there an actual substantial shift to the center?

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Honestly, I would consider putting all my saving/investments/loan money into a 1:10 Biden:Trump bet.

did shosta give you tips?

[nachobro]

The "Bernie Bully" phenomenon is very real. Deny it all you want. He's going to lose again, and none of this will matter.

You keep repeating this as if its news to me. I've always expected it to be a tough fight that will be lost. You aren't surprising or burning me with this comment. In the end I'll still be glad I worked to get people registered to vote and didn't throw my minuscule social weight behind a demented pedophile who is in bed with credit card companies.

All you've done is shit all over someone that was willing to try, while you lecture everyone about being sweeter and nicer to you and do nothing losers like you. In the end Biden will lose too and none if it will matter except you'll come back and blame me and others like me for it, same as always.

But hey, at least you'll have waiting around to vote that one time as a line to refer back to over the next four years as a sad accomplishment to throw around. I'm sure it'll get everyone in your special facebook groups really happy when you mention it.

[VomKriege]

Another factor that you're all overlooking is that early on she was the only major candidate who consistently lost to Trump in H2H polls.

There would frequently be national or swing state polls that would have results like Biden +4, Bernie +3, Warren -1 against Trump. There are people who moved away from her because of this.

I only date smart women and I like Warren.

[Mandark]

She moved away from M4A, called Bernie a radical with plans not grounded for reality, pushed for unity, called herself a capitalist and waited for applause etc.

Edit: She also said that 'I'm a capitalist, because that's what we need to beat Donald Trump'

This sounds like a rhetorical shift.

[team filler]

On that note, Biden's seeming lack of interest in the youth vote is the thing currently giving me the most anxiety.

they don't seem to show up when you show interest in them anyway

all you young sluts love ghosting at the poles 

[nachobro]

Life is a matter of really tough choices. Elizabeth Warren has made a tough choice today and has many more ahead of her I’m sure. She should be incredibly proud of what her and her staff have accomplished up until this point; Those that have supported her should be proud too.

I’ve been honored to work alongside her since she first ran for office and hope for continued unity on issues we both stand for and to challenge one another on those that we differ on. Thank you for your service in the name of American democracy. Now, let’s keep pushing forward together.

pretty close

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1235616060906205184

[ToxicAdam]

I would've been okay with Elizabeth Warren as the president. She seemed pragmatic enough.

Now, there's nothing else to really root for. Sanders would be fun, just to watch the far-right freak out, but that seems like an incredible long shot. He's just not growing his base.

[Mandark]

It's mainly rhetorical, but policy-wise she did move away from M4A and free post-secondary quietly.

Her shift in rhetoric was no longer bringing it up, but she would later changing her views on her site... that's been her whole MO.

Still on her site: "That’s why I’m proposing a historic new federal investment in public higher education that will eliminate the cost of tuition and fees at every public two-year and four-year college in America." Also her student debt cancellation plan, which is one of the featured links. You sure about this?

[nachobro]

Registering people to vote is great. Thanks for doing that.

When you came across people who weren't planning to vote for Bernie, did you try to persuade them to come to your side, or did you tell them to go get fucked?

Funny enough most of the people I helped to get registered didn't realize there even was a primary, they just wanted to vote to get Trump out, mainly because of the impact he was directly having on their families and potentially ability to even be in this country. So it actually was the first time most of them had heard of Bernie, which did give me a good chance to explain his policies and plans along with getting them registered.

I have a feeling I know where you are going with this and I just don't agree with the idea that college educated liberals should need their hands held and feet kissed to vote for progress beyond the status quo. Clearly that is incorrect from the way the votes are turning out, but I just expect better from people that surely see themselves as the enlightened people.

It took maybe 15-20 mins to convince abuelas that just being able to go to the doctor and get help should be cheaper than it is, and that their sons/daughters/grandchilden deserved to make more money so they could do more than just barely survive or even go to college and really rise above their current station.

This state has almost 20% of the population living below the poverty line so of course the message hits closer to home here, but seeing people who (imo) should know better being so resistant is beyond infuriating to me.

[Himu]

Registering people to vote is great. Thanks for doing that.

When you came across people who weren't planning to vote for Bernie, did you try to persuade them to come to your side, or did you tell them to go get fucked?

Funny enough most of the people I helped to get registered didn't realize there even was a primary, they just wanted to vote to get Trump out, mainly because of the impact he was directly having on their families and potentially ability to even be in this country. So it actually was the first time most of them had heard of Bernie, which did give me a good chance to explain his policies and plans along with getting them registered.

I have a feeling I know where you are going with this and I just don't agree with the idea that college educated liberals should need their hands held and feet kissed to vote for progress beyond the status quo. Clearly that is incorrect from the way the votes are turning out, but I just expect better from people that surely see themselves as the enlightened people.

It took maybe 15-20 mins to convince abuelas that just being able to go to the doctor and get help should be cheaper than it is, and that their sons/daughters/grandchilden deserved to make more money so they could do more than just barely survive or even go to college and really rise above their current station.

This state has almost 20% of the population living below the poverty line so of course the message hits closer to home here, but seeing people who (imo) should know better being so resistant is beyond infuriating to me.

I'm convinced many fellow Bernie people don't even know what a primary is. Sad but true.  This country needs better Civic education.

[Himu]

I think one problem with the whole "vote!!!" movement is that we just tell young people to vote but not of the process of voting (primaries,/runoffs). So they know to vote but not when.

[Mandark]

I think of "I'm voting based on whose supporters seem like assholes" roughly the same as voting third party in a FPTP system: pretty obviously a terrible way to effect any kind of material change, but also an understandably human way of thinking about something.

[nachobro]

I'm convinced many fellow Bernie people don't even know what a primary is. Sad but true.  This country needs better Civic education.

to be fair most of these people were not educated in the country, or even educated at all.

[Tripon]

The Bernie Bros being bullys or mean is a real thing. And? If that affects a campaign where it does actual damage, what does that say about the strength of that person campaign? You think the MAGA people will be polite and not say shit when the general election campaign happens?

[bdoughty]

I identify as white and was raised with all the privilege that comes with that.

[Nintex]

Tucker Carlson is a poet



It's like putting a dress on your dog.
It may be an amusing instagram post but it's wrong
You can see the confusion in the dogs eyes.
You can see the same thing in Joe Biden's eyes.

[Himu]

I'm convinced many fellow Bernie people don't even know what a primary is. Sad but true.  This country needs better Civic education.

to be fair most of these people were not educated in the country, or even educated at all.

That is true. But even among native born people many don't understand the process. Combined with people not trusting the media so they aren't informed snd it creates a massive shit sandwich.

[nachobro]

also i'm not fully convinced that being mean online or irl has a massive effect considering who is the current president is.

[Himu]

The Bernie Bros being bullys or mean is a real thing. And? If that affects a campaign where it does actual damage, what does that say about the strength of that person campaign? You think the MAGA people will be polite and not say shit when the general election campaign happens?

Democrats really think they can still play nice with Republicans after the entire impeachment affair. It's hilarious how inept they are. Their toleration of Republicans going further right for decades and still colluding with and enabling them led to this but let's opine about the mean Bernie people. It's like poetry.

[bdoughty]

I just think we need to talk about why Pocahontas is acceptable. Our society clearly thinks it's ok but why is that?

It's not Pocahontas that is being used. It's Fauxcahontas being used. There is a difference.

Why does the Bore still have an emoticon dedicated to Rachel Dolezal?

[Himu]

We need a moderate

Someone who can talk to republicans

Which also happens to be a cult of fascist enablers

But we need to be moderate and compromise with them

This is the shit that made me lose my mind everyone. Democrats make me go nuts.

[Mandark]

IIRC Warren had been saying roughly the same thing about M4A for a while: first priority is defending the ACA gains, second is immediate relief for drug prices etc, and third is the big M4A reform.

You can say she changed because she had cosponsored Bernie's bill then released her own plan, but on the same token Bernie has cosponsored a bunch of health care bills over the years, a lot of which were not comprehensive single payer plans.

I think a lot of Bernie fans were eager to see her drop in the polls as a result of some sort of shift to the right, but her decline actually coincided with her getting hammered by anti-M4A ads from outside groups. The effectiveness of that campaign seemed to go a bit under the radar.

[Mandark]

It's not Pocahontas that is being used. It's Fauxcahontas being used. There is a difference.

Why does the Bore still have an emoticon dedicated to Rachel Dolezal?

it's an emote of rachel dolezal herself, not photoshopped into blackface

[bdoughty]

The MAGA people aren't trying to convince anyone and don't need to. They're orcs. They fall in line when Sauron calls.

The main "convincing" that happens in their world happens via Fox News and from social pressure in churches.

On the other side, you're trying to get Rohan and the Elves to come to Gondor's aid. It's harder. Definitely harder when there isn't state media telling everyone what opinions to have, and the entire party isn't absorbing a consistent message from radio and Fox every single day.

They are too busy on Narnia, falling in line to King Soros and masturbating to what MSNBC has to say.

[VomKriege]

Saying Sanders should have played nicer with "the Party" supposes "the Party" was willing to play fair and in good faith. I'm not sure I'm convinced they would short of Sanders dissolving all positions to bland anonymity.

To me it seems Sanders have always been as much as a team player as you could expect from his position and in a working (if conflictual) relationship with the Party since 2016, but maybe I got swindled by the theatrics.

Glenda said all Dems wanted, in abstract, to provide for better healthcare and education to all Americans but the plain truth is that the USA is 50 to 100 years behind the Western Europe norm there, it doesn't exactly makes a compelling case that mainstream Dems representatives will actually get there if left to their own devices.

It may be that Sanders gamble is, given the US context, unwinnable. But it's not been in vain.

[Joe Molotov]

We need a moderate

Someone who can talk to republicans

Who also happen to be a cult of fascist enablers

But we need to be moderate and compromise with them

This is the shit that made me lose my mind everyone. Democrats make me go nuts.

If it makes you feel any better, there are Republicans that want someone that will outlaw gay marriage and abortion and are furious that they keep having to settle for centrists that will compromise with Liberals.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

We need a moderate

Someone who can talk to republicans

Which also happens to be a cult of fascist enablers

But we need to be moderate and compromise with them

This is the shit that made me lose my mind everyone. Democrats make me go nuts.

Endorsing Tusli. Nice.

---

msnbc trying to push the lgbtqa+ community has vanished from the primary.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/485877-nbc-exit-poll-shows-sanders-with-most-support-from-lgbtq-voters

[nachobro]

So in real life (not the digital realm) you actually did what I advocated doing, what shosta did, but derailed the thread for a full day trying to make it about me. Classic. A full day of garbage could have been avoided. 

Thanks for doing that. We owe you a debt of gratitude (not trolling).

i'm not too good at explaining it but like i said, people focusing on things like "who is nice" and the nebulous concept of "electability" and their tax rates over actually helping people that are drowning and in desperate need of help gets me really annoyed. i get that everyone has their own issues but goddamn if some of it doesn't piss me off at times.

not to mention the media machine that did their best to downplay, ignore, or lie about bernie the whole way through surely didn't help anyone but that's a different issue. however when stuff like that happens of course there will be a backlash from people tired of that nonsense.

[bdoughty]

If it makes you feel any better, there are Republicans that want someone that will outlaw gay marriage and abortion and are furious that they keep having to settle for centrists that will compromise with Liberals.

Then we have the liberals who no longer give a fuck.

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1233393885906427908

[james]

Fresno just voted for mayor.

They elected a corrupt police chief who had sex with a 16 year old when he was 27.

Thanks Biden.

[Nintex]

There's different types of young people that all don't vote.

- Those pretty well off that don't vote because they don't feel they have to and their friends don't either, community non-voting

- Those that want instant gratification, they're used to the fact that everything is a click away "I liked grandpa Bernie's Instagram why isn't my college debt gone?  " ain't nobody got time to vote when there's Fortnite loot to collect

- Those that were let down by what 'the squad' and other Dems managed to do to stop the rise of Trump or implement more progressive policies, instead they just rubber stamped his budgets and complained about Israel a lot

- Those that don't care about politics so they don't care about voting (you'd be surprised how many people think voting == politics)

In that sense, the 'owning the libs' spiel is a strong tactic of the Trump team to get people out to vote.
Even if it doesn't matter, you still owned a lib by voting and Trump does give you that instant gratification because within an hour after you voted he probably owned a lib somewhere.
If you're really lucky he might even retweet the meme you made.

I think politicians also overestimate the loyalty of those that visit their rallies. For some people those rallies are just fun and exciting events to hang out at with free loot, especially in colleges.
If you visit the artist that happens to be in town you might not go out to buy his album.

[Mandark]

The Bernie Bros being bullys or mean is a real thing. And? If that affects a campaign where it does actual damage, what does that say about the strength of that person campaign? You think the MAGA people will be polite and not say shit when the general election campaign happens?

not sure if you realize you just called bernie's campaign weak

[nachobro]

well some of them better decide within 5 days

[Himu]

We need a moderate

Someone who can talk to republicans

Who also happen to be a cult of fascist enablers

But we need to be moderate and compromise with them

This is the shit that made me lose my mind everyone. Democrats make me go nuts.

If it makes you feel any better, there are Republicans that want someone that will outlaw gay marriage and abortion and are furious that they keep having to settle for centrists that will compromise with Liberals.

It doesn't make me feel better because democrats have sacrificed their ideals, whatever they are, for decades to republicans which has made the entire political sphere increasingly right. All the democrats ever do is compromise. Republicans, for the most part, don't. They'll give up on an issue but compromise? Nah.

Now they're calling for a moderate that can get things done and talk across the aisle when exactly one month ago they said republicans are unpatriotic, traitors, and want to make trump a dictator. But for some reason are trying to convince people to support that can cut a deal with them.

Then they'll lose again and try the same strategy in 2024.

Democrats chose the donkey as their mascot well. They're nothing but jackasses.

[Mandark]

It doesn't make me feel better because democrats have sacrificed their ideals, whatever they are, for decades to republicans which has made the entire political sphere increasingly right. All the democrats ever do is compromise. Republicans, for the most part, don't. They'll give up on an issue but compromise? Nah.

this is not true

[Himu]

Republicans may be evil but Democrats are straight up incompetent.

[Tripon]

The Bernie Bros being bullys or mean is a real thing. And? If that affects a campaign where it does actual damage, what does that say about the strength of that person campaign? You think the MAGA people will be polite and not say shit when the general election campaign happens?

not sure if you realize you just called bernie's campaign weak

If I think the Bernie Bros mentality actually forced people on a large enough scale, sure.

Or are you saying other campaign roving gang members bullied Bernie voters to change their vote?

[Mandark]

the debate has been that by acting like assholes, bernie's supporters have hurt his campaign

I wasn't sure if you understood what people had been talking about

[Himu]

I'm sorry Mandark but it's hilarious to me. Once you get over the fury at the Democratic party all you have is laughter.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Bernie bros are bullies? outside of glenda I haven't seen that.

[Himu]

Democrats chose the donkey as their mascot well. They're nothing but jackasses.

This isn't true, actually. The donkey as a representation of the Democratic party was first drawn up by Republican Thomas Nast as an insult during Reconstruction. Its adoption by some of the party's supporters is ironic but probably about as stupid as anything else that happens in politics. It has never been official iconography of the party.

I already know the origin. Both party mascots came from political comics. Doesn't make the democrats man the donkey its official mascot any less apt.

[nachobro]

Bernie bros are bullies? outside of glenda I haven't seen that.

they are notorious among the Too Online, a noted massive base in the entirety of the voting population and protagonists of the website twitter dot com.

[nachobro]

That's my point, it's not the official mascot  .

dirty dems dont need the donkey as their mascot cause they show their ass all time

[Nintex]

Trump and Mini Mike are fighting with Star Wars memes and we still have 8 months to go
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1235633381595066373

[Himu]

tucker isn't wrong. biden is a senile and weak old man who exists as a puppet for whatever big money interest group has their hand up his ass at the moment and has no interest in making any serious change for better, mainly because he probably isn't sure where he is or what he is doing at any given moment.

he only thing he has propping him up is "beat trump" and "blue no matter who" which are nothing but meaningless statements by people who stand for nothing.

This is grossly unfair to a man who has spent his entire adult life in public service. A lot of your posts about him are gross.

I'm sorry your whole political identity is tied up in Bernie, and that you've come to believe that a Bernie presidency is the only way you'll get adequate healthcare (it's not, and if you're counting on M4A, that was never going to pass with 50-53 Dems in the Senate). But heaping these awful insults on anyone who had the audacity to run against Sanders and do well is just ridiculous behavior.

It still amazes me that rank and file democrats still haven't realized why many people aren't loyal to them. Democrats are poor on issue based legislation on the national level and Bernie supporters tend to be issue based voters. But rather than cater to voters that want their issues heard, they point and blame the voter for having the audacity to care about the issues that are central to them. Then when they lose they blame the voters rather than expanding their coalition by spesking on actual issues that concern people.

"Your whole political identity is tied up in Bernie." I wonder why? Could it be because the Democratic party has refused to move forward on these issues he cares about? No, it's the voters who are wrong.

Then they point fingers and accuse republicans of being cultists. Funny.

Every Dem has a plan for improving the state of healthcare, education, etc in this country. The fact that some of them are tailored towards what might actually be achievable with small majorities in Congress doesn't make them sellouts.

Plan, shmlan. Democrats give no confidence on improving anything. Almost every issue they say they want to correct or fix is tied up in their moneyed interests.

Take Obama for example.

Guy is supposedly a big fan of The Wire, an anti-drug war story about the rotting core of American society that benefits only the few.

Then does nothing to stop or slow down the war on drugs nor suggest any major social change towards it. Instead, he has the DEA said a record amount of legal marijuana depositories.

For many Democrats improvement is nothing but a platitude and they show nothing of actual results.

But that's my take on someone that lives in a red state so I could be wrong.

[team filler]

It's wrong on healthcare, too. I know because I spent like an hour reading her entire plan and posted bullet points for Mandark and he didn't even throw me a like.

are you saying he's stingy with the likes 

[curly]

I think a lot of Bernie fans were eager to see her drop in the polls as a result of some sort of shift to the right, but her decline actually coincided with her getting hammered by anti-M4A ads from outside groups. The effectiveness of that campaign seemed to go a bit under the radar.

You got a source on this, because I've heard much more about her drop in support coinciding with the the NYT poll where she did poorly against Trump in battleground states than M4A attack ads (also should be noted her big M4A plan came out when she was already declining). Also on the question of whether she changed course on M4A, she was at least perceived as doing so:

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) was the final presidential candidate fully on board with a swift and complete Medicare-for-all overhaul of the U.S. health-care system.
No longer.
Like the other Democratic contenders, Warren has somewhat softened her position on the sweeping — and what some term radical — Medicare-for-all system envisioned by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). On Friday she released a proposal to first adopt a public option approach similar to what the race’s moderates are calling for — a marked shift from her previous calls for quickly moving all Americans to government-backed health insurance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-health-202/2019/11/18/the-health-202-elizabeth-warren-is-no-longer-a-medicare-for-all-purist/5dd145a788e0fa10ffd20ed8/

[Mandark]

the cole memorandum?

[jakefromstatefarm]

im like, 4 hours too late on this, but, forasmuch as it failed this time around, i really believe the push to increase political participation and organization among people whove been left out of the public sphere was a good thing and one that should be built on. maybe if we werent at full employment it couldve proven decisive.

[OnlyRegret]

im like, 4 hours too late on this, but, forasmuch as it failed this time around, i really believe the push to increase political participation and organization among people whove been left out of the public sphere was a good thing and one that should be built on. maybe if we werent at full employment it couldve proven decisive.

Youth engagement and stats are promising. Which is good because (ideally) they'll be continuing to act and vote and grow for decades to come.

[curly]

Also people are monday-morning qbing the Sanders campaign as if its failings were obvious from the start when 2 weeks ago he was dominant and everyone thought Biden was dead. If the moderates had been a bit slower in consolidating or less coordinated Sanders would probably be cruising towards the nomination with 30-35% of the vote a la Trump 2016. Who would have thought the Dems would be the one to have their shit together?

[Mandark]

You got a source on this, because I've heard much more about her drop in support coinciding with the the NYT poll where she did poorly against Trump in battleground states than M4A attack ads (also should be noted her big M4A plan came out when she was already declining). Also on the question of whether she changed course on M4A, she was at least perceived as doing so:

I'm actually a bit fuzzy on the timing so the ad buys might have started sooner than when she was fading. Partnership for America's Health Care Future and some other groups have done heavy anti-M4A ad buys in swing states and I'm pretty sure there's been a measurable effect on how it polls.

As far as perception, I thought Pete and Amy were both going after her for being a M4A supporter but I don't watch the debates so maybe I'm wrong.

[Nintex]

Also people are monday-morning qbing the Sanders campaign as if its failings were obvious from the start when 2 weeks ago he was dominant and everyone thought Biden was dead. If the moderates had been a bit slower in consolidating or less coordinated Sanders would probably be cruising towards the nomination with 30-35% of the vote a la Trump 2016. Who would have thought the Dems would be the one to have their shit together?

But Bernie, who can't even beat Biden is the only person who can beat Trump 

[james]

Why is this thread so active?

Why does politics have to dominate our discourse?

Can't we all just get along?

[nachobro]

https://twitter.com/SharnaAisha/status/1235049620767555585

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Also people are monday-morning qbing the Sanders campaign as if its failings were obvious from the start when 2 weeks ago he was dominant and everyone thought Biden was dead. If the moderates had been a bit slower in consolidating or less coordinated Sanders would probably be cruising towards the nomination with 30-35% of the vote a la Trump 2016. Who would have thought the Dems would be the one to have their shit together?

The moderates plan is everything they did. It was meant to dilute sanders ideology from "different" people.  The story of biden with the "comeback" has always been the plan during the first *checks notes* three votes.

This is a carefully crafters and neural net tested simulation, the same way trumps path was crafted. Same masters different slaves.

[curly]

Also people are monday-morning qbing the Sanders campaign as if its failings were obvious from the start when 2 weeks ago he was dominant and everyone thought Biden was dead. If the moderates had been a bit slower in consolidating or less coordinated Sanders would probably be cruising towards the nomination with 30-35% of the vote a la Trump 2016. Who would have thought the Dems would be the one to have their shit together?

Trump eventually started winning 55-60% of the vote after more people dropped out, and he could build a commanding lead with narrow pluralities in those early states because they were winner take all.

Sanders would have to eventually grow his coalition to significantly more than 30-35% of the vote to win, even if he had a decent delegate lead after ST.

Or he comes to the convention with 40-45% of the delegates and nobody else close and becomes the nominee anyways. Quibble over the details, but you thought he had it too.

[Himu]

https://twitter.com/SharnaAisha/status/1235049620767555585

Bro I'm sorry but even if Biden is a pedophile this makes me sad. This man clearly needs medical attention and moderates are pushing him to the presidency.