Author Topic: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense  (Read 102644 times)

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Raist

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #660 on: November 13, 2019, 03:20:36 AM »
Phantom Pain is solid, IMO.

No, it's Venom.

 :rimshot

thisismyusername

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #661 on: November 13, 2019, 07:28:35 AM »
Hey you can see exactly what Ep.51 was supposed to be on Youtube, it was a better finale than repeating the intro, sure, but it was just that, a closing climax/set piece.
The story problems and game design problems up to that point are much greater than a bad ending, to my eyes.

Too few ideas spread too thin, too little story spread too thin, too little character development (for any of the characters involved) spread too thin.
A better finale wouldn't have made Quiet or Skullface actually worth a shit, wouldn't have made the skull babes a decent enemy, and wouldn't have gave the game decent bosses.
They still would've needed to repeat all the missions to stretch the run time, they still would've left the map mostly under utilized, etc etc.

I'm a "bigger = better" kinda guy when it comes to open world games, but if there's one exception in my mind, it's MGSV.
It's should've been a series of small, GZ-style maps, pretty much like a Sniper Elite or Hitman of sort.

Simply because they just had no expertise or time to fill two massive, empty maps like they tried to do, and MGSV isn't a game that thrives in a contemplative pace (since you're dropped in with a clear objective every time, and extracted at its completion).

Sniper Elite would've fit better for the series, since that's essentially what MGS3 is: Go forward a la Final Fantasy 10 and just sneak around folks while moving forward.

Thing is: That style of gameplay has kinda fallen by the wayside, it's why Final Fantasy (to tie the comparison in) is now trying to Sandbox-ize everything (whereas the problem with 13 was that it was too "tube"-y and not necessarily the hold forward shit, after all a lot of folks [not me] enjoyed 10 which has the same fucking problems that 13 does), and other franchises are "Ubisoft tower"ing their shit.

I feel the empty-maps is partly due to cross-generation hardware focus and partially because Kojima was still literally developing the engine at the same time as Phantom Pain. Engine development (espeically Middleware) takes years now a days, so him being like 4 years into developing one isn't out of the realm of crazy-long.

I mean, granted, Japan has had issues with making engines for in-house (Square/Crystal Tools) or middleware (Konami, but this is because of cold-feet/pulling money) engines for a while and barely any Western company is doing in-house engines now a days without serious (read: Platform owners like Sony) money. Most third parties are using middleware that got there sooner/earlier like Unreal Engine now a days to where going middleware-to-license is a bit of a fools errand.

thetylerrob

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #662 on: November 13, 2019, 09:57:40 AM »
That euphoric feel when you remember that Kojima Game Studios will continue to bless us with genius future titles for years to come.  :rejoice

Coffee Dog

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #663 on: November 13, 2019, 10:41:03 AM »
I'm having a lot of fun with this, but it's hilarious that the best advice I can give is skip the cutscenes and focus on the post apocalypse fedex simualtor.  :lol

The story has MGSV's pacing with MGS4's writing. This is seriously some of the worst crap he's ever done. I don't think I care for anybody onscreen except for Norman Reedus. Not Sam, but the actor.

thetylerrob

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #664 on: November 13, 2019, 11:14:25 AM »
It's surrealism juxtaposed against post modern sci-fi with Kojima's trademark repetition of jargon and copious amount of pop culture worship. I assumed the writing would be weird and abrasive because of the trailers but it's 100x more interesting to me than MGS5's meditation on loss, longing and language politics stuff.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #665 on: November 13, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »
It's not surrealism. It's symbolism.

TEEEPO

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #666 on: November 13, 2019, 02:18:07 PM »
you're telling me a melting clock isn't symbolic?

thetylerrob

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #667 on: November 13, 2019, 02:29:31 PM »
You right, but it still evokes some surrealist imagery and you can't take that from me!!!

kingv

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #668 on: November 13, 2019, 03:31:15 PM »
The terrain can be such a hassle to cross that it feels like a huge blessing when some guy went and finished a bridge or road for you.

EightBitNate

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #669 on: November 13, 2019, 04:23:39 PM »
This is basically just a shitty Netflix series

What am I missing

TVC15

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #670 on: November 13, 2019, 04:25:31 PM »
oxytocin
serge

thetylerrob

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #671 on: November 13, 2019, 04:50:05 PM »
Filler oxytocins are quite rare in this economy, or so I've heard

TVC15

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #672 on: November 13, 2019, 04:53:00 PM »
You could just buy some oxytocin at GNC when you go to get your next tub of NUGENIX. That’s where I used to buy mine when I was a 19-year-old edgelord that just learned about smart drugs.

Along with Xenadrine. Man, good ol days of pseudoephedrine. America’s glory days. Fuck the people that wanted that shit banned. I hope they live long lives but terrible things happen slowly and quickly to all even remotely close to them. Those cunts ruined my health.
serge

thisismyusername

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #673 on: November 13, 2019, 11:37:04 PM »
Pretty sure the guy that translated MGS1 has said that it's a translation quirk and that's why it's gotten worse in every Kojima title after the first one (Konami started skimping on localizers). Japanese is more concise I think, so it probably sounds more natural to them than in English where it sounds overly wordy.
Japanese is more vauge, actually, but also more polite. The silly repetition is a consequence of the latter. Making reassurances that you're still listening is familiar to all of us, I think. A "mhm" and "yeah" here and there, maybe a clarifying question if you're generous. In Japanese, this is more frequent and can take the form of repeating a key word as a question. This can be obviated in text to make it more natural sounding outside of Japan, but MGS is fully voiced and cutscenes were timed to match the Japanese lines.

Jeremy Blaustein, who translated MGS, did take some liberties though; mainly with tone, quips and by adding military jargon. Things Kojima apparently did not appreciate.

When I read that Snake’s earpiece was just called a 無線機 (“wireless”), I tried to come up with something better for American players. I researched the problem for a significant amount of time before coming across something called a “codec” that I thought sounded cool. I had never heard the term before, but it sounded pretty official.

When Campbell told Snake that he would have to do 現地調達 (“acquire locally”) for his weapons, I knew I needed something that sounded like military jargon. The only problem is that no one in real life would ever put themselves in that situation if they could help it, so I coined the term OSP, or “on-site procurement,” which is still used to this day.

(...)

From what I heard at the time, Kojima began to hear that his work had been “tinkered” with. I’d argue there might have been a lack of appreciation for the needs of localization due to his not being bilingual, but he was not happy. As a result, all future Metal Gear games would be closely monitored for fidelity to the original Japanese script.

[Ed. note: Konami declined to comment when contacted about this story.]

This approach resulted in lines like: “I won’t scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea. I will always be with you. Plant your roots in me. I won’t see you end as ashes. You’re all diamonds.”

There's also an interesting interview with Agness Kaku, the translator of MGS2, who had to deal with some of the fallout from Kojima's clamp-down:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120125211117/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm

And another interview with Blaustein:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120330110037/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/jb/jb.htm

Quote from: First one, why the fuck is this an archive for the record?
KOJIMA IS NOT A WRITER


Hideo Kojima

Something Agness has been critical of is Kojima's writing ability, or rather his lack of it. Offering her free opportunity to speak, I asked what she felt, "I think he's very bad at character, and I think he's extremely conventional, as in non-creative, when it comes to plotting. I know that I'll probably get an incredible amount of hate karma - can you say hate karma? - about this. So I'll just say that I did grow up reading, I told you I grew up without TV, so I read instead. And I like Cormac McCarthy, and the science-fiction writers; I love Frank Herbert, I love Alfred Bester, right now I really like Greg Egan, so I am extremely picky, and I do have a high standard when it comes to writing."

"I think that if you're ripping off Tom Clancy, it's...Tom Clancy is Tom Clancy, he deserves all the money and fame. The guy has worked hard. Writing is hard work. So to shoot out a bunch of these kinds of things, that we've been talking about, and then claim yourself as a writer when...And you know, there's good work being done in games. I think Portal is really well written, very beautifully written, but Kojima's stuff is...Fine, be a game creator, and know what you're not very good at, and learn to work with people who are. Stanley Kubrick, famously, the one thing he could not do was write. He could do everything else, but he didn't know how to write, so he worked with good writers, and worked with them in a very sort of relentless partnership. He knew his limits. I don't think Kojima's a writer. The fact that he would even be considered one shows how low the standards are in the game industry. Nothing in MGS2 is above a fanfic level. He wouldn't last a morning in a network TV writers' room, and those aren't exactly turning out the Dark Tower series or The Wire."

It's clear Agness has the experience and language ability to speak with authority on the subject of MGS2's writing. Which leads on to an interesting subject. Just prior to the release of Metal Gear Solid 4, Ryan Payton commented on MGS2, shifting the blame for fan dissatisfaction on to the translation. As he told 1UP, "I did walk away from Metal Gear Solid 2 a little bit disappointed and really confused about a lot of the plot elements and the narrative. Now looking back at the script and looking back at the translation and realizing where things might have gotten cut and where things got lost in translation - there really wasn't a problem with the original Japanese print. I think it was more a problem with some of the translation and some of the direction that was taken with the localisation. With MGS4 being the direct sequel to MGS2, I decided to investigate MGS2 as much as possible to gain a thorough understanding of it. I played the [Japanese] game over and over again, looked at the script with a fine-toothed comb, and realized: 'You know what? This is actually pretty cool now that I fully understand what is going on.'"

Having heard how others had tried to bait Agness into a confrontation regarding Jeremy's work, I was very careful not to appear wanting to do the same regarding Ryan's comment. But at the same time it did warrant investigating, and allowing Agness to explain her side of things. First off she debunked the idea that in its original Japanese the game was more palatable, "One thing I remember is I played it with someone so I could take notes - so my boyfriend was playing it - and I just sat next to him, and he loved the original game. He's a total kind of gamer generation, he knows way too much about [retro] things. But even he was like 'God! They just talk on, and on, and on, and there's a Colonel that'll go on and on, in this kind of political intrigue babble that wasn't particularly well written, droning.' The sheer amount of talking, I think makes it rather difficult to get through, but then if you just go ahead and skip it, maybe there was something in there?"

JS: I disagree with Ryan's stance, because no matter how you look at it, a majority of fans felt that Kojima had jumped the shark with MGS2.

AK: "I guess some people said it jumped the shark. I'll believe that, because these are people who loved the first one and liked the second one fine. But it's kind of like the difference, and not that I'm comparing Ridley Scott to Mr Kojima, but between Alien and Aliens. Aliens is a lot of fun, but Alien is something else. In my opinion. Obviously you may not agree."

JS: To me it seemed, maybe, almost like revisionism? MGS4 was coming out, fans were concerned with how the story had gone on MGS2, so someone came out and said: 'MGS2 was great, but you'll only know this if you speak Japanese. So trust us when we say MGS4 will be just as great...' Ryan was of course heavily involved with MGS4.

I will say: #FuckRyanPayton Dude was clearly a bad influence on Kojimbo in terms of changing a control scheme to be even worse (I remember CQC being particularly bad in MGS4) and wanting it to be all about HIM and how HE's helping Kojima with MGS4 at the time.

And then his own game fucking flopped, never to be heard from again. #SweetSweetKarma

Quote
AK: "It's weasel words, kind of, but you know, if [Ryan] is indeed doing that, he might want to think about the fact that the guy who worked on the first MGS, Jeremy, has since been blamed [by Kojima] for its lack of brilliant perfection, so much so that his work was replaced wholesale for GameCube; the girl who worked on MGS2 has been blamed for getting in the way of its brilliance, and continues to be talked about like an unfortunate relative online; I don't know what happened to the person who did the third one, I turned it down. But if Kojima gets it in his head, that MGS4 was not brilliantly perfect, then perhaps Ryan will be joining Jeremy and I, in the lost-in-translation, unfortunate-relatives' club.

Oop. :kermit
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 11:46:21 PM by thisismyusername »

bluemax

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #674 on: November 14, 2019, 12:08:06 AM »
Ryan Payton is one of those people who has continued to fail upwards. From podcast guy to helping one of the most famous game designers, to helming one of the most popular game franchises, to running his own thing and now making something again based on a major IP.

Then again if 10 years in the industry have taught me anything... it's that there's a lot of people in design director roles who failed their way into them. I still don't understand why.
NO

Sho Nuff

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #675 on: November 14, 2019, 12:27:31 AM »
Ryan keeps his team paid and fed, I have his back in a fight

kingv

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #676 on: November 14, 2019, 12:35:01 AM »
What did he even do after Republique? That’s the last I heard of him.

thisismyusername

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #677 on: November 14, 2019, 07:34:49 AM »
From podcast guy to helping one of the most famous game designers, to helming one of the most popular game franchises,[

Wait, what? I thought after MGS4, he left Kojima Productions Konami to do Republique? Oh. no, now I remember! He was on Portable Ops because Kojima didn't want do shit and would've rather let the "new generation" do something. Portable Ops wasn't terrible, but fucked with canon (because Kojima didn't really oversee that). And then after folks were like "this isn't terrible but it's not good..." Kojima did Peace Walker which blew the fuck out of it in making recruiting soliders less a pain in the ass (fulton for Phantom Pain came from Peace Walker, for instance).

I will say that as much as I enjoyed Peace Walker (despite it being clear it was for the Japanese market with the co-op focus and no online means of doing that until the console "HD" ports), AC!D 1/2 (which were done by an older Kojima Productions Konami person) was the killer apps for the series on PSP. If I could turn back time, I'd force Kojima to make a third with Phantom Pain cards. *sigh*

Edit: Oh no, you're talking Halo 4. He joined 343 and was only voice-over director for Portable Ops apparently... Ho-hum, no wonder Halo 4 apparently sucked shit (but being fair, 5 and other 343 titles have sucked shit. So...)


Quote
to running his own thing

Which flopped, so he went off into the sunset and...

Quote
and now making something again based on a major IP.

Wait, what? WTF. Oh, no you mean Iron Man VR which is :no1curr because VR is a dead meme. And apparently it's from the Republique studio he made so somehow they bankrolled it by using Kojima yakuza connections. Hmm...

Ryan keeps his team paid and fed, I have his back in a fight

(God I wish I had the old subredditdrama for this context)

Fight me loser bottoms.

What did he even do after Republique? That’s the last I heard of him.

Ironman VR, by somehow limping Repubflop into Repubomb: HD edition: Now with more no1currs platforms!

It was supposed to be  HIS Metal Gear, and then he made it like mobile-only at launch and it sank, never to be heard from again.

kingv

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #678 on: November 14, 2019, 03:22:33 PM »
Republique was bad.

Rahxephon91

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #679 on: November 14, 2019, 06:41:11 PM »
Hey you can see exactly what Ep.51 was supposed to be on Youtube, it was a better finale than repeating the intro, sure, but it was just that, a closing climax/set piece.
The story problems and game design problems up to that point are much greater than a bad ending, to my eyes.

Too few ideas spread too thin, too little story spread too thin, too little character development (for any of the characters involved) spread too thin.
A better finale wouldn't have made Quiet or Skullface actually worth a shit, wouldn't have made the skull babes a decent enemy, and wouldn't have gave the game decent bosses.
They still would've needed to repeat all the missions to stretch the run time, they still would've left the map mostly under utilized, etc etc.

I'm a "bigger = better" kinda guy when it comes to open world games, but if there's one exception in my mind, it's MGSV.
It's should've been a series of small, GZ-style maps, pretty much like a Sniper Elite or Hitman of sort.

Simply because they just had no expertise or time to fill two massive, empty maps like they tried to do, and MGSV isn't a game that thrives in a contemplative pace (since you're dropped in with a clear objective every time, and extracted at its completion).
Ive been saying this basically since the game came out. It really fails as an open world game and a Metal Gear Solid game. One of the worst in the series, but it’s all been bad since 3. Peace Walker and MGSV have really made me question Kojima as both games are filled with tedious bullshit and lack the personality of the series. Death Stranding has really inherited this as well. It’s also taken MGSV’s change in tone. That game is really where I felt Kojima was smelling his own farts. MGSV was so up it’s own ass with its paltry story. Gone is the nerd making homages to his favorite schlock. Now he’s an artist. But I haven’t finished the game(only one chapter 3) other then asking how this game gets a pass while FFXIII got shit on for it’s confusing early hour noun a thon, I’ve kind of liked it. 


I also think regardless of chapter 3 or mission 51, the game would still be terrible.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 07:56:44 PM by Rahxephon91 »

thisismyusername

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #680 on: November 14, 2019, 08:04:14 PM »
Republique was bad.

What I want to know is how the studio stayed alive after it dropped. Apparently the last episode dropped in 2012, and then a PS4 version was ported in 2016, which seems like a crazy long time for a development house to stay alive on a niche-not-so-hot product. It looks like GungHo bankrolled the publishing duties but I remember the doing a kick-starter for the project that wasn't that hugely (I mean half a million is good, but compared to like Bloodstained or Shafer's projects) successful.

Camouflaj was funded in 2011, they're still alive with only one product out there. That's the :wtf part.

Oh what do you know, their main site actually has an article from Payton on this very thing: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-04-13-how-camouflaj-cheated-death-in-a-volatile-industry

stufte

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #681 on: November 14, 2019, 08:06:12 PM »
just got to chapter 4 and I'm loving it so far, it scratches that bizzare kojima itch.

Tasty

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #682 on: November 14, 2019, 08:28:55 PM »
Did any review ever use "It can Republique my balls"? Cause if not, missed opportunity.

thisismyusername

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #683 on: November 14, 2019, 08:39:17 PM »
Did any review ever use "It can Republique my balls"? Cause if not, missed opportunity.

But what does this have to do with Death Stranding? :confused This is the Death Stranding thread. :confused

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
spoiler (click to show/hide)
:doge
[close]
[close]

I haven't finished the Blaustein article yet, but it seems like most folks would agree that Kojima's writing is hit and miss without a team of editiors. Sort of like the Magic the Gathering dude that is getting flack for their latest novel now. :doge

Tasty

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #684 on: November 14, 2019, 09:00:15 PM »

bluemax

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #685 on: November 14, 2019, 11:09:14 PM »
Did any review ever use "It can Republique my balls"? Cause if not, missed opportunity.

But what does this have to do with Death Stranding? :confused This is the Death Stranding thread. :confused

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
spoiler (click to show/hide)
:doge
[close]
[close]

I haven't finished the Blaustein article yet, but it seems like most folks would agree that Kojima's writing is hit and miss without a team of editiors. Sort of like the Magic the Gathering dude that is getting flack for their latest novel now. :doge

We've already deviated into Refn movies, what's a little deviation into one of Koijma's most favorite hangers on?
NO

bluemax

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #686 on: November 14, 2019, 11:13:31 PM »
Also I only knew about the Iron Man VR because I've been working in VR for like 3 years now so I track this stuff. Licensed VR is stuff that is good for a company making it in that the IP holder over estimates how important or useful it is so they pay you plenty and consumers have such low expectations that your end product doesn't have to be all that much.
NO

Don Rumata

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #687 on: November 14, 2019, 11:59:55 PM »
I also think regardless of chapter 3 or mission 51, the game would still be terrible.
That's the things though, the gameplay part of it, what you get in GZ without all the bullshit, basically, is one of the best games of the generation in my opinion.
That's what makes it such a weird game, because bad games abound, but MGSV is simultaneously horrid and amazing.  :'(

They have an amazing skeleton layered with a whole lot of shit, and it was definitely better than the shit MGS past MGS1 was doing (where the shit controls and camera of the past couldn't support the level design anymore).

benjipwns

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #688 on: November 15, 2019, 12:06:18 AM »


Quote
celestialbuffalo

It's time to drink 15 monster energy drinks and haul ass to the pacific.

thisismyusername

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #689 on: November 15, 2019, 12:06:39 AM »
We've already deviated into Refn movies, what's a little deviation into one of Koijma's most favorite hangers on?

You're missing me poking fun of him getting snippy in the Flopdia thread. Why do you think he posted what he did? :p

kingv

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #690 on: November 15, 2019, 12:14:43 AM »
Is little homie with the hourglass supposed to have Down syndrome or something?

benjipwns

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #691 on: November 15, 2019, 12:20:12 AM »
Licensed VR is stuff that is good for a company making it in that the IP holder over estimates how important or useful it is so they pay you plenty and consumers have such low expectations that your end product doesn't have to be all that much.
The Miller Report exposed this through hardcore investigative journalism a few years back:

Coffee Dog

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #692 on: November 15, 2019, 09:58:20 AM »
I'm nearing thirty hours into this game and I don't think I could describe a single character's personality beyond Conan O'Brian unless I label them as "stoic" or "vague".

There's no humanity to any of the dialogue. All of it is expository and functional. Snake is a character who, for all his mumbles and grumbles, had a colorful history that would frequently come up in his dialogue when he spoke to other characters, and it made them both feel more alive. He gave a shit about guns and war stories. He gave a shit about anything.

Norman Reedus is a fucking near mute, MGSV style, and it means I have a cast of characters with backstories and plot functions but I dont actually feel as if I know any of them in any way beyond how they help norman deliver these boxes. At least MGSV gave you Kaz, Ocelot, and Huey, established characters that you already had some connection to. This game is as if every supporting character in MGSV was Quiet. And that's ass.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #693 on: November 15, 2019, 11:22:46 AM »
THIS STORY ABOUT HUMAN CONNECTIONS!

COME MEET THE HOLOGRAM MAN

Trent Dole

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #694 on: November 15, 2019, 02:46:37 PM »
THIS STORY ABOUT HUMAN CONNECTIONS!

COME MEET THE HOLOGRAM MAN
It's about connections from stoic ass hyper formal Japan, so.
Hi

kingv

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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #695 on: November 15, 2019, 03:43:38 PM »
I'm nearing thirty hours into this game and I don't think I could describe a single character's personality beyond Conan O'Brian unless I label them as "stoic" or "vague".

There's no humanity to any of the dialogue. All of it is expository and functional. Snake is a character who, for all his mumbles and grumbles, had a colorful history that would frequently come up in his dialogue when he spoke to other characters, and it made them both feel more alive. He gave a shit about guns and war stories. He gave a shit about anything.

Norman Reedus is a fucking near mute, MGSV style, and it means I have a cast of characters with backstories and plot functions but I dont actually feel as if I know any of them in any way beyond how they help norman deliver these boxes. At least MGSV gave you Kaz, Ocelot, and Huey, established characters that you already had some connection to. This game is as if every supporting character in MGSV was Quiet. And that's ass.

Outside of Higgs they pretty much all suck.

I think I would like Fragile if her line delivery wasn't trash, same goes for Deadman. Mama could have been good but bad lines and probably the oddest arc followed by the game forgetting about her completely doesn't do her any favors. the game really wants you to like and connect with the characters to, and I'd argue it fails at that almost catastrophically.

Having a super international game that takes place in post apocalyptic America is weird.

Like, shouldn’t everybody have American accents?

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #696 on: November 15, 2019, 05:48:09 PM »


this game is beautiful
每天生气

BisMarckie

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #697 on: November 15, 2019, 10:16:05 PM »
Now that I am about 10 hours in, I started to hate every single second playing this game. The BTs are just a pain in the ass, not a huge threat, just annoying. Having to hold in R2 and L2 constantly to not fall over is not fun in any way. Having to manage and repair your fucking containers during the rain sucks. Constantly having to rearrange your cargo sucks. The "combat" is incredibly shallow.

I'd rather play MGS 4.

mormapope

  • WHADDYA HEAR, WHADDYA SAY
  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #698 on: November 15, 2019, 10:28:55 PM »
So......Kojima makes better games when a Konami suit is basically telling him politely that if he doesn't get his shit together, he'll be spending his older years in a closet drafting pachinko games.
OH!

demi

  • cooler than willco
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Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #699 on: November 15, 2019, 10:34:02 PM »
I read the story on wiki and saved myself a click
fat

TEEEPO

  • hi, i suck
  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #700 on: November 16, 2019, 02:45:59 AM »
this game sux  x

OnlyRegret

  • <<SALVATION!>>
  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #701 on: November 16, 2019, 03:31:20 AM »
So......Kojima makes better games when a Konami suit is basically telling him politely that if he doesn't get his shit together, he'll be spending his older years in a closet drafting pachinko games.

it's probably some real gem or two back in the studio or older studio that shot down bad ideas, people wank kojima too hard and don't give props to the team around him
like how MGS3 was cowritten with Fukushima who left during MGS IV development

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member

Coffee Dog

  • Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #703 on: November 16, 2019, 04:12:36 AM »
It's kind of funny that when all is said and done I'm probably the guy who liked this game the most in this thread and yet every other sentence I'm shitting on it :lol

I actually really enjoy what I've played as well. :lol for as bad as i think every narrative element is, it's probably my favorite *playing* kojima game in 15 years.

All of my problems with the narrative fall to the wayside amidst the intensity of hauling 300kg of cum and eggs up a steep incline in a storm.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #704 on: November 16, 2019, 12:09:24 PM »
I just finished up episode 3, and am still enjoying it.

Took a peak at a walkthrough and it seems like the rest of the episodes are a lot shorter.

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #705 on: November 16, 2019, 12:39:31 PM »
I just got to episode 3 last night. That boss battle was lol that's it? easy.  Thanks peeps for leaving all the grenades, but fak... I think we're good folks.   :lol  I'm still enjoying the game though. Not sure why, but prepping my load out and the tension of traversing is engaging enough for me to want to keep going.

This is gonna sound weird, but I couldn't help but feel like this game is the Dark Savior of the Climax games... Pretty graphics with a neat gameplay twist and story, but it's no Landstalker or Alundra.  That popped in my head at 4am with a few drinks in me.
 :trumps

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #706 on: November 16, 2019, 12:42:59 PM »
Did the boss ever literally attack you?

When I fought it I just stood on a platform and pelted it with grenades until it eventually ruined my perch. Then it was dead a few seconds later.

It basically just stood there the whole time.

Edit: I feel like episode 3 is where you will decide if it clicks with you or not for good. It’s much more just “take the packages back and forth” in episode 3, but you also get more toys to play with.

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #707 on: November 16, 2019, 01:16:49 PM »
Did the boss ever literally attack you?

When I fought it I just stood on a platform and pelted it with grenades until it eventually ruined my perch. Then it was dead a few seconds later.

It basically just stood there the whole time.
Directly?... Not that I recall actually  :lol It was just all flashy commotion for the most part.   :doge

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #708 on: November 16, 2019, 08:59:28 PM »
I will say that the mules have downed me once.

You can get overwhelmed if you aren’t careful.

But they don’t kill you, they just take your stuff.

Switters

  • Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #709 on: November 16, 2019, 10:06:14 PM »
This game is fucking great. Just beat it... kinda.

The only thing that sucks is that I spent 10 hours setting up a zipline route through the mountains and their respective preppers that looped all the way back to mama's lab. 300 likes... while some chode's useless bridge that spans a river you could jump across has 2908729872987289 likes.

I almost had an emotion when you realize
spoiler (click to show/hide)
the figures in the sky from the 1st trailer were the people who loved you and just wanted you to be happy
[close]
  :crybaby :crybaby :crybaby
troll

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #710 on: November 16, 2019, 10:19:34 PM »
likes  :drool
*****

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #712 on: November 16, 2019, 11:01:31 PM »
I just got through episode 4, and it was honestly a pretty good boss fight. Easy as hell, but good.

Mama though. Oof? Voice acting not so great.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #713 on: November 17, 2019, 04:37:36 AM »
It's pretty dumb that private lockers aren't universal.

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #714 on: November 17, 2019, 04:40:19 AM »
I didn’t get very far in the game, but I thought that sounded like it could be annoying
serge

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #715 on: November 17, 2019, 04:52:14 AM »
I will say that the mules have downed me once.

You can get overwhelmed if you aren’t careful.

But they don’t kill you, they just take your stuff.
Getting that bolo gun, I wreck their shit now; Hog tie them bitches, go and kick them, steel their ride, load it up with all the shit in their camp and ride off like a pimp.
 :delicious

Coffee Dog

  • Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #716 on: November 17, 2019, 05:32:42 AM »
Every mandatory fight has been boring as sin. I'd call them bosses but they dont actually do anything? Theyre just bullet sponges. Whoopee. Sam doesnt have any movement abilities, or ways to reposition himself quickly, the guns are all bland and perfunctory, and the enemies just slowly advance at you until you apply hitstun 40 times and then they die if you don't get bored and kill yourself first. At least i could count the number of times ive been forced to fight on one hand and I'm 30+ hours into the game now.

I don't know who told Kojima that his game had to have shooting, but forced or not, that's not an excuse to be a shitty shooter. Just dont include weapons. :lol

I'm completely checked out of the "story". I only dont skip dialogue if I'm meeting another character in person.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #717 on: November 17, 2019, 07:13:44 AM »
To be honest, Kojima hasn't had good boss battles since MGS3.

MGS4-Most of them are pretty shitty and the main gimmick are that they references to MGS1 bossess. Just without anything really clever or cool.

PW-Well none of them are hard, but incredibly tedious and time consuming. Espically  if you haven't grinded and are playing solo.

MGS5-This game had boss battles? The Frogs are the absolute worse and pretty much the end conclusion of Kojima running out of ideas.

I'm liking Death Stranding, but even then I feel like it's proof the dude has kind of lost it.  MGS1-3 are full of so many neat encounters, battles, situation, story telling moments. I think everything post MGS4 has been dry and really avoiding that stuff. I'm finding DS enjoyable, but it is through a lawyer of extreme tedium and lacking of what feel like set piece moments. 

Don Rumata

  • Hard To Be A John
  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #718 on: November 17, 2019, 07:31:26 AM »
Maybe Kojima wasn't the mind behind the bosses in mgs1-3, and whoever was, left (which doesn't imply Fukushima, dev teams have dozens of people).
Or maybe his interests in design shifted, over the years.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense
« Reply #719 on: November 17, 2019, 10:07:52 AM »
It's pretty dumb that private lockers aren't universal.

Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose? it’s a resource management game.

Like what would stop you from putting a package in your locker, fragile jumping to a destination, taking your package out of the locker, and then turning it in?