Holy Shit Death Stranding is beautiful nonsense

[Raist]

[nachobro]

holy shit the beastcast segment on this is uh...harsh

i really am going to have to check this out when it hits pc

[MMaRsu]

[Nintex]

Yup, they'll probably fix some things in the PC release.

From what I've seen in reviews this game is rough, feels under cooked at times but has potential.
It's a ridiculous grind from start to finish. IGN demonstrated 'fast travel' which involved skipping 6 cut scenes and walking for 10 - 20 minutes.

[Nuitangg]

Is this coming to Xbox?  Would be the perfect gamepass game.

[nachobro]

it's not even a waiting for fixes thing. like that tweet timu posted, a game getting such a big gap in scores is something i'm gonna have to try at some point. i just don't have a way to play it atm

Is this coming to Xbox?  Would be the perfect gamepass game.

oh didn't think of that! would be nice

[Eel O'Brian]

Games don't need to be fun

2019 video game philosophy

Yeah, Flight Simulator and all other PC slow as shit simulators including THE Walking-Simulator-King, Armed Assault, are all 2019 games. 

The fact that so many reviewers hate it is basically my sign of approval.

I loved the slower pace of Red Dead Redemption 2, and i think it's their best game yet and should've been even slower.
Mud Runner was one of the best games i tried on the Xbox gamepass thing, and you spend 15 minutes trying to get a 4x4 out of a ditch in that game.

I look forward to an open world map that doesn't feel like Disneyland, for once. 

yes but did you have fun playing those games, slow games can be fun, fun =/= fast colorful explosions
i take issue with the line of thought that games don't need to be fun, or entertaining, or...games

[Eel O'Brian]

you know you can just get a job delivering for amazon and actually make money instead of paying $60 to do it

[Trent Dole]

it's not even a waiting for fixes thing. like that tweet timu posted, a game getting such a big gap in scores is something i'm gonna have to try at some point. i just don't have a way to play it atm

Is this coming to Xbox?  Would be the perfect gamepass game.

oh didn't think of that! would be nice

Considering that Sony helped fund its development a Bone release seems highly unlikely. Of course since this is a super late gen game a port over to the next round of machines wouldn't surprise me at all and maybe it'd end up on the next X alongside the PS5.

[thisismyusername]

Is this coming to Xbox?  Would be the perfect gamepass game.

Doubtful, dude. Maybe PC Gamepass, but not X-box. And that's only if 505 and Sony agreed.

[Don Rumata]

Games don't need to be fun

2019 video game philosophy

Yeah, Flight Simulator and all other PC slow as shit simulators including THE Walking-Simulator-King, Armed Assault, are all 2019 games. 

The fact that so many reviewers hate it is basically my sign of approval.

I loved the slower pace of Red Dead Redemption 2, and i think it's their best game yet and should've been even slower.
Mud Runner was one of the best games i tried on the Xbox gamepass thing, and you spend 15 minutes trying to get a 4x4 out of a ditch in that game.

I look forward to an open world map that doesn't feel like Disneyland, for once. 

yes but did you have fun playing those games, slow games can be fun, fun =/= fast colorful explosions
i take issue with the line of thought that games don't need to be fun, or entertaining, or...games

That's just an issue with these people having problems explaining things.
Silent Hill 2 is my favorite game, but it isn't "fun" in the way Crazy Taxi is fun.
I guess that quote from Druckmann that everybody makes fun of was on point, when he said they want to do "engaging" games, rather than "fun" ones.

There are plenty of fast games that throw shit at your face, that bore me to tears.
All a game (or any piece of media) has to do, is keep your interest, whether it's a 3 hours Tarkovsky movie, or a game of Tetris.

[bork]

Would have day one'd this if this had been the game.

[Rahxephon91]

Using Rick and Morty to advertise the game......yeah thats enough reason to dislike this game.

[Svejk]

you know you can just get a job delivering for amazon and actually make money instead of paying $60 to do it

I checked... but Amazon didn't like it when I was throwing piss bombs at people with a baby attached to my chest. 

[Eel O'Brian]

you have to clock out first

[bork]

you know you can just get a job delivering for amazon and actually make money instead of paying $60 to do it

I checked... but Amazon didn't like it when I was throwing piss bombs at people with a baby attached to my chest.

So that's why the package I got yesterday was all wet

[Don Rumata]

you know you can just get a job delivering for amazon and actually make money instead of paying $60 to do it

I checked... but Amazon didn't like it when I was throwing piss bombs at people with a baby attached to my chest.

They're fine with you pissing in bottles though.

[Sho Nuff]

Listened to the Beastcast. I'm not touching this unless my Boritos heap much praise.

[thetylerrob]

Listened to the Beastcast. I'm not touching this unless my Boritos heap much praise.

Yes, but have you considered that Alex Navarro had a nu-metal chin beard through most of the 2010's and only shaved it when a coworker made fun of it in his presence?

[Rahxephon91]

He also had an Asian girlfriend so jokes on you fucker

[Sho Nuff]

Listened to the Beastcast. I'm not touching this unless my Boritos heap much praise.

Yes, but have you considered that Alex Navarro had a nu-metal chin beard through most of the 2010's and only shaved it when a coworker made fun of it in his presence?

Yeah, I saw him once on the subway. Didn't say shit because I didn't wanna be that guy

[Occam]

So it has a metascore of 84 with 73 reviews at the moment, surely they can't all be bought? At least it doesn't sound like a total trainwreck. Personally, not hyped at all about the game and in no hurry to play it, but I'm no Kojima worshipper.

[Rman]

So it has a metascore of 84 with 73 reviews at the moment, surely they can't all be bought? At least it doesn't sound like a total trainwreck. Personally, not hyped at all about the game and in no hurry to play it, but I'm no Kojima worshipper.

It's not a bad score, but two things.

Kojima's hype machine seems to have done this game no favors. It's not a new genre or experience or whatever he thinks it is. This then caters to the MC hype cycle were anything under a 9 is considered blasphemous. 

If you read the text of the review scores, good and mediocre, they are amazingly consistent.  I personally don't get a reviewer flatly saying the game is not "fun" yet giving it a perfect score, but whatever.

[benjipwns]

Yeah, Flight Simulator and all other PC slow as shit simulators including THE Walking-Simulator-King, Armed Assault, are all 2019 games. 

The fact that so many reviewers hate it is basically my sign of approval.

I loved the slower pace of Red Dead Redemption 2, and i think it's their best game yet and should've been even slower.
Mud Runner was one of the best games i tried on the Xbox gamepass thing, and you spend 15 minutes trying to get a 4x4 out of a ditch in that game.

I look forward to an open world map that doesn't feel like Disneyland, for once. 

yes but did you have fun playing those games, slow games can be fun, fun =/= fast colorful explosions
i take issue with the line of thought that games don't need to be fun, or entertaining, or...games

Jeff Gestmann was jokingly calling this American Truck Simulator without the trucks. Yet...

The Eurogamer reviewer was having trouble thinking of a game to compare it to, purely gameplay wise, and the commenters were making suggestions but none of them struck him as quite right.

Then somebody said they were making a totally off the wall suggestion where the only thing they knew about this game was its description on Wikipedia.

The reviewer said he was hesitant to totally agree because people would be too reductive "but... yes."

Spintires.

[Rahxephon91]

Games are kind of moving into well I don't want to use the word "mature", but well more mature phase of the medium where they are doing a lot of things. Where I don't think simply calling them fun is really going to capture all aspects.

Fun is kind of a narrow perspective ad I'm not sure what it means beyond activity that makes you feel good. To which games have evolved in away that I find many games to be "fun" even if I also think the primary interaction part sucks.

Maybe bad example, but I don't find Asura's Warth to be a fun game as far as gameplay goes. I mean it doesn't offend me, but I would never play the game over obviously a DMC game. But the presentation with the music, art, animation, cinematography, UI, and so on was so good on a "intellectual" level that I really liked the game. I don't mean intellectual as in smarts, I just mean as stimulating my mind. There's a slot of games that stimulate my mind even if the gameplay is only medicore.

I'm not into Silent Hill and the like, but I'm pretty sure its fans experince something similar. Though I don't think they'd describe the gameplay as "fun", yet they probably get some hectic feeling from it. Survival can be a pleasurable feeling too. But I also think that game's mood and presentation does a lot for its fans.

I'm not sure I would describe Red Dead 2 as fun. I found the gameplay not as intrusive as a lot of other people, but  I mean it wasn't the best shooting I ever experienced. I also did'nt engage with a lot of it's mechanics as I found them bloated and yet uneeded. As a "game" I'm not sure Red Dead 2 is a good one. But the experince, the attention to detail of the world, the visuals of that bring the creation to life, the audio, everything. Well it was so engaging. I loved it You know what? I simply liked being and walking in that world.

For me I think the the thing is the gameplay can be at least mediocre, it's just other things really have to pick up the slack.  But I think games have moved beyond simply having to be fun. A better question is are they engaging and if yes or no, why? Metal Gear Solid V has "fun" gameplay. Great visuals and art. Whatever presentation was good. But I never found it engaging for a whole slew of reasons.

Just like tv, movies, music, books, and comics I think video games have a lot of elements that need to be judged beyond simply asking if they are "fun".

[Svejk]

Themes and art direction play such an integral substance of gaming now for me.  Being into one or the other, can be engaging enough to be considered fun... Even if it's not "fun" and is jank af, I'll still play it for the experience.

[Don Rumata]

But i'll reiterate, that this isn't anything new.
That games can offer rewarding experiences beyond the strict interpretation of the word "fun", as in "fast and responsive interaction of a Bayonetta", has been a reality since forever.

Simulators are old as shit, grand strategy games are old as shit, i mean even tabletop games rpgs aren't exactly the kind of fun you'd associate with an arcade experience.

Then there's the problem of classifying fun as depth and complexity of interaction, which already broadens the definition at least, but i guess still excludes all sort of "movie games" or "walking simulators".
Yet point & click adventures have always been just that, with a very thin layer of mediocre "puzzle element" (who the fuck loves those random shitty puzzles in those games?), the real value of those games came form the immersion in a world and a story, that the slower pace could give you, that running and gunning in Duke Nukem couldn't.

It's not really a controversial opinion to think that Silent Hill felt almost closer to a point & click game with some shitty combat tacked on, than a Resident Evil clone, despite their intentions (no inventory limit, no resource management, barely any challenge required; but more interesting world, story and puzzles).

Yet the various Monkey Island and Grim Fandango are considered some of the best games ever made. 


All that said, Death Stranding, much like SpinTires/MudRunner, does seem to have a level of depth in its simulation.

[HardcoreRetro]

Sounds like a bunch of semantics. 

Edit: Game looks boring as fuck btw.

[Chooky]

i mean from what i can tell/assume the game is traverse the environment and listen to people talk. i dunno why it seems harder for reviewers to grasp this time, although i ofc understand if they find it boring because of the setting, dialog, length, whatever.

[Don Rumata]

Sounds like a bunch of semantics. 

Edit: Game looks boring as fuck btw.

It's not just semantics if you use it as genuine critique, though.

[bluemax]

I still can't get over the fact that Kojima apparently thought making the walking mechanics be similar to QWOP was a good idea for a AAA title.

You know, game user experience is still a relatively new field quite different from QA and not widely used in the industry. I'm curious if Kojima Productions does any of that at all. He seems like the kind of guy that only cares about his personal vision and doesn't really think about UX.

I'm currently working as a user researcher for a small gaming startup, btw.

Like.. is this supposed to be praise?

http://www.pushsquare.com/reviews/ps4/death_stranding

The most important factor you'll have to consider as you deliver packages is weight. Sam, played by The Walking Dead star Norman Reedus, can only carry so much on his back so you'll need to work out a method of distributing the burden effectively. Piling it high is always an option, but that means our protagonist will constantly be off-balance as the cargo swings from side to side in the wind. You could attach some items to Sam's suit, which in turn makes him slower as he lugs about more than just his own body mass. Or you could opt to carry a couple of objects with your hands, which takes away a couple of interactive actions away from you. That's thanks to the L2 and R2 buttons having to be held for the entire trek to ensure you don’t drop them.

Striking a balance between the three options is key to making a successful delivery, otherwise the load will be damaged the more you drop it. It's a fascinating, incredible set of mechanics that serve as a perfect introduction to Death Stranding. You're made to think about what you will be taking with you as soon as the first order comes through, making for a weight management mini-game that competes with the very best: the inventory sorting of Resident Evil 4.

Sounds like a super niche thing that some people will just love. I think it's an interesting user experience, but whether it's ultimately a good one is another question. Also, it's often hard to understand why people like things we don't. I mean, I don't get the fascination with pastry stouts.

THICC BOIS

CRISPY BOIS

It's a Sony published title. They absolutely do UX research and feedback. Kojima probably doesn't have to listen to it as much as other people might (for better or worse). But there's no way Sony didn't have their most important release of the year go through some kind of testing.

https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1190275520283500545

Would be interesting to find out that the 10 years has just been Konami yelling at Kojima “but where’s the fucking gameplay?!”

It's more that Kojima without checks and balances gets into situations like this or Phantom Pain.

(In Phantom Pain's defense: He was writing a middleware engine for Konami at the time to license/reuse over the course of a generation or two, so a lot of the costs/time taken was on that.

Just read https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20696081/metal-gear-solid-translation-japanese-english-jeremy-blaustein <---Blaustein basically made MGS into a house-hold name with his translation that was blood-sweat-and-tears like Alexander O. Smith's Ivalice translations (but O. Smith had some other S-E translator's helping during his run). What does Kojimbo do after discovering it isn't a dry translation in Integral/MGS: International: VR Job System? Never works with Blaustein again.

And then you can see the vocal change in MGS2. To where folks were "WTF." And then MGS3 had like 2-3 editors of Kojima's story (writers as well, IIRC) for Kojima Productions and that turned out MUUUUCH better than MGS2.

Then 4 happens because most of 3's team leaves again (or was fired because of Kojima?)

I mean it seems pretty simple the answer of why this is "divisive"/being hated is because "Kojima with a blank check and nobody to reign him in is a problem, so Konami was valid in firing him." I guess.

To be incredibly pedantic, Kojima has probably not written a single line of engine code in the last 20+ years (if ever) and crediting him with any technical achievement is incredibly demeaning to the actual programmers who worked on it.

[chronovore]

Tempted, but realistically I've got other games I should beat first, so I'll be smart and wait for a price drop.

[Sho Nuff]

I wonder if this is gonna slam jam down to 2000 yen faster than FF13

[Dickie Dee]

I'll wait until it's on PS+ in less than a year

[Svejk]

I actually read one of the positive reviews (I know... crazy, right?)  And the "boring" aspects sound 100% fine with me.  For someone that found stacking boxes with a forklift in Shenmue enjoyable and likes to slow walk through games like Horizon, GOW, AC:Odyssey and Hellblade simply to take in everything, this game sounds right up my alley.  I don't suffer from adult ADHD and like to soak in the scenery, sounds, study the animations, smell the roses, etc... 

Still hyped...Bring this shit on...

[bork]

I actually read one of the positive reviews (I know... crazy, right?)  And the "boring" aspects sound 100% fine with me.  For someone that found stacking boxes with a forklift in Shenmue enjoyable and likes to slow walk through games like Horizon, GOW, AC:Odyssey and Hellblade simply to take in everything, this game sounds right up my alley.  I don't suffer from adult ADHD and like to soak in the scenery, sounds, study the animations, smell the roses, etc... 

Still hyped...Bring this shit on...

(Image removed from quote.)

[Svejk]

I was talking about so many people claiming it to be boring.    

(Image removed from quote.)

This is sums up the Switch thread as well.

 

[thetylerrob]

That sounds fun though? And I don't really trust game journos to tell me what mechanics are frustrating or difficult in games. They're not true skilled gamers like me 

[Svejk]

And I’m talking about how you think the game is right up your ally because you like to slow walk and take in everything.

You literally can’t explore too much in this game because your shoes will wear out.   It sounds like the opposite of a “take your time and take everything in” game.  The main gameplay loop revolves around carefully planning a route and your resource usage.

Right... but I'm implying that reviewers were claiming this as boring.  Tedious maybe?  Yeah, I suppose... But so is grinding, but doesn't mean it can't fun or enjoyed.  But like you said as well... it sounds like there's always something to do.. "barren open world" or no. 

That being said too, I totally love the idea of how the online component will work with other folks leaving shit in the world.  Not that it's 100% original, but it sounds really  interesting to me.  I like how the Soulsborne games and Dragon's Dogma had others involved..  adding to the core experience without really interfering with it.

[Trent Dole]

I was talking about so many people claiming it to be boring.    

(Image removed from quote.)

This is sums up the Switch thread as well.

 

[kingv]

That skillup dude put in a ton of work trying to make it sound good. His review has me curious again, but I’m still holding out a bit.

After devouring reviews I expect it’s a game that would be a really interesting experience at half the length.

[kingv]

I believe skill up also though God of War was amazing, so his opinions are incredibly sus.

[bork]

That sounds fun though? And I don't really trust game journos to tell me what mechanics are frustrating or difficult in games. They're not true skilled gamers like me 

Certainly not trying to tell anyone what sounds fun.

But I don’t see how “I enjoy wandering around in open world games taking the sites in” applied to this game.  Not just addressing comments here seen it all over the internet;  “I love just putting some music on and riding into the sunset in RDR2 this game sounds perfect”. Ehhhhhh

Again just pointing out this seems to be going for something very different than an exploration game.

Forget long-winded reviews- when I read things like these tweets, something's wrong.


https://twitter.com/nathan_brown/status/1190182964530991104
https://twitter.com/nathan_brown/status/1190183693840769024
https://twitter.com/agentbizzle/status/1190280391229181957
https://twitter.com/agentbizzle/status/1190282070901178376
https://twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/1190257552459624448

Definitely not a game I'd be buying day one, that's for sure.

[Don Rumata]

And I’m talking about how you think the game is right up your ally because you like to slow walk and take in everything.

You literally can’t explore too much in this game because your shoes will wear out.   It sounds like the opposite of a “take your time and take everything in” game.  The main gameplay loop revolves around carefully planning a route and your resource usage.

This is a solid point, i'm intrigued by the game more than i was before, because i love that aspect of exploration (my favorite part of Shadow of the Colossus is when yuou're NOT fighting Colossi, and i even love just wandering around software like Outerra, Space Engine or even Google Earth  ).
The aspect of the ticking bomb you mention though (in the form of limited resources) doesn't completely negate that, just adds a small element of tension to it, much like, as i mentioned before, the fuel limitation in SpinTires/MudRunner.

I'm not saying i'll like it for sure, especially since i've grown really intollerant of many of Kojima's storytelling quirks, but i do agree with some people on "i don't care what reviewers are saying", not because of some form of elitism or mere contrarianism, let alone blind trust in Kojima (lol), but because personally, i've come to the conclusion that i look for very different things in games, than most of these people tweeting out about this stuff, given their complaints.
As i said i would've "fixed" RDR2 by making it even slower and more simulative for example, not by letting you skip travel and loot animations, like many were asking.

That sounds fun though? And I don't really trust game journos to tell me what mechanics are frustrating or difficult in games. They're not true skilled gamers like me 

Certainly not trying to tell anyone what sounds fun.

But I don’t see how “I enjoy wandering around in open world games taking the sites in” applied to this game.  Not just addressing comments here seen it all over the internet;  “I love just putting some music on and riding into the sunset in RDR2 this game sounds perfect”. Ehhhhhh

Again just pointing out this seems to be going for something very different than an exploration game.

Forget long-winded reviews- when I read things like these tweets, something's wrong.


https://twitter.com/nathan_brown/status/1190182964530991104
https://twitter.com/nathan_brown/status/1190183693840769024
https://twitter.com/agentbizzle/status/1190280391229181957
https://twitter.com/agentbizzle/status/1190282070901178376
https://twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/1190257552459624448

Definitely not a game I'd be buying day one, that's for sure.

Game may very well be shit, since nobody here played it yet, but that's not saying much.
They didn't like it 'cause it's boring, is essentially what they're saying, you could say that of any game and you would be right from a personal POV.
Far Cry 5 literally can't leave you alone for 5 seconds for fear of you getting "bored", and it's insufferable (despite the good gameplay) for that very reason.

Again, not saying this will be good for sure, just that i don't much care for these opinions (reason why i never really read reviews in the first place), because they rarely align with what I look for in a game.

[thetylerrob]

Jeff only likes shoot bang games and is clutching his pearls because he has a baby now




Brian Altano is.....




idk about the other guy. All I know is I don't give a shit what game critics say about games anymore.

[naff]

a quick skim of the tim rogers / df vids makes this looks like so much my shit. can't wait to make my way through this dense vocabulary salad dystopian postie simulator....

in 2020 on pc  :'(

[bork]

Again, not saying this will be good for sure, just that i don't much care for these opinions (reason why i never really read reviews in the first place), because they rarely align with what I look for in a game.

I don't take what any of these guys say as the final word here- It just says something when you have people saying the same thing- that it's boring to the point of not even wanting to finish it.

[Don Rumata]

Again, not saying this will be good for sure, just that i don't much care for these opinions (reason why i never really read reviews in the first place), because they rarely align with what I look for in a game.

I don't take what any of these guys say as the final word here- It just says something when you have people saying the same thing- that it's boring to the point of not even wanting to finish it.

I get it, and that's probably true for a lot of people.
But the point seems this a niche game sold as a mass market one.

[bork]

But the point seems this a niche game sold as a mass market one.

So...a Hideo Kojima game™. 

[Rahxephon91]

I don't think Metal Gear Solid games are niche.

Yeah they are weird, but on the surface they aren't.

[bluemax]

At least Metal Gear Solid had someone at Konami mostly reigning in the mechanics to the point where, if you divorce the shitty story from the games the core mechanics are still something people would play. Look at the popularity of the old VR training missions from MGS2. The one time Kojima started to feel himself a bit too much Konami forced them to release the mea culpa that is Subsistence.

Now we've got Sony giving him a huge budget to release their tent pole game of the year and he's delivered the equivalent of someone's ridiculous game jam experiment from itch.io with pretty graphics and a bunch of movie actors attached.

It's almost no wonder we are seeing a bloodbath at the executive level of Sony right now.

[bluemax]

Imagine if Sony gave Benett Foddy, Robert Yang and the Zachtronics duo the same budget and told them to combine to make whatever game they wanted. Would the reactions be the same?

[benjipwns]

Imagine if Sony gave Benett Foddy, Robert Yang and the Zachtronics duo the same budget and told them to combine to make whatever game they wanted. Would the reactions be the same?

Go on...

[benjipwns]

 

[Akala]

i mean it looks good

[bork]

I don't think Metal Gear Solid games are niche.

Yeah they are weird, but on the surface they aren't.

They got weirder and more 'complex' with each new release.  Most "mainstream-niche" games ever released, IMO.  Death Stranding fits right in.

[Rahxephon91]

I don't think Metal Gear Solid games are niche.

Yeah they are weird, but on the surface they aren't.

They got weirder and more 'complex' with each new release.  Most "mainstream-niche" games ever released, IMO.  Death Stranding fits right in.

But at the end of the day, it’s under basically a GI. Joe skin. Metal Gear Solid is military stuff, pretty easy to market to mainstream America even it’s military stuff with a real anime edge. And I’d say MGSV was rather toned down in its atmosphere anyway.

The main dude has a baby attachment and is about building bridges and delivering packages. I mean this is a bit diffrent then MGS. A stealth game where you play a military dude sneaking into facilities.
Death Stranding is dealing with far crazier subject material that’s harder to wrap around. IMO.

[nachobro]

mgsv sold 6+ million copies. that's not the sales of a niche franchise

i didn't know anyone who had a ps1 that didn't also have mgs back in the day

[benjipwns]

What killed him? Stamina? Poison? Holes in soles? WTF.

Gravity. He dared defy it.

[BlueTsunami]

After watching the Tim Rogers review I'm all the fuck in