Author Topic: #latestagecapitalism  (Read 360589 times)

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1680 on: September 30, 2019, 09:49:28 AM »
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1681 on: September 30, 2019, 10:05:27 AM »
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Nintex

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1682 on: September 30, 2019, 02:40:50 PM »
Ah well, just stick to your unions until they've negotiated away the Christmas holidays  :mynicca

Anyone wants to join my union?
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Nintex

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1683 on: September 30, 2019, 03:18:03 PM »
Unions are a relic of the past. It's like dropping more Napalm on Vietnam in 2019 to scare away Chinese communists.
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shosta

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1684 on: September 30, 2019, 03:25:15 PM »
Agreed, genosse. As capitalism continues to lurch into crisis, the capitalists become more resolute in retaining their diminishing profits, business conspires with the state to weaken the unions, the unionized companies become less competitive, and the proletarianization of the middle classes, which had been temporarily halted by union forces, resumes unabated.
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Rufus

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1685 on: September 30, 2019, 03:28:30 PM »
Why do you think stagnating wages and declining unions coincide?

Nintex

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1686 on: September 30, 2019, 03:29:44 PM »
I too, look at 200 years of labor union successes and failures and then choose the last 30 to make definitive, absolute statements on their utility.
You can look at 200 years of successes of traveling by carriage but these days I'd rather use a car to get around.  :idont
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Crash Dummy

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1687 on: September 30, 2019, 03:30:19 PM »
Why do you think stagnating wages and declining unions coincide?
lazy workers, fortunately there's a solution:
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1178429549689921536

shosta

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1688 on: September 30, 2019, 03:30:29 PM »
you're fucking stupid
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Crash Dummy

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1689 on: September 30, 2019, 03:31:33 PM »
well i posted at a bad time

OnlyRegret

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1690 on: September 30, 2019, 03:40:03 PM »
can't say I'm an expert on unions, but I feel when they get bloated and bureaucratic and more concerned with propagating themselves than doing what their task is (worker collective representation) they become more a hassle
aside from that though, it is weird to rag on unions as a whole since fundamentally it just represents workers negotiating as a whole in order to better hold a position rather than as singular units which are easily disposed of, seems like someone has drank a bit too much walmart union-harassment koolaid

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1691 on: September 30, 2019, 03:41:11 PM »
I too, look at 200 years of labor union successes and failures and then choose the last 30 to make definitive, absolute statements on their utility.
You can look at 200 years of successes of traveling by carriage but these days I'd rather use a car to get around.  :idont

pray tell, if unions are carriages then what does the car represent?


Rufus

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1692 on: September 30, 2019, 03:42:20 PM »
You can look at 200 years of successes of traveling by carriage but these days I'd rather use a car to get around.  :idont
You just can't help yourself including your flawed premise, huh? :larry

Why are currently unionized workers not abandoning their unions? Are they just stupid?

shosta

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1693 on: September 30, 2019, 03:43:54 PM »
pray tell, if unions are carriages then what does the car represent?
:juche
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kingv

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1694 on: September 30, 2019, 03:45:04 PM »
Had an interesting conversation with my Republican dad about unions.

He’s managing parts of a multi-billion dollar construction project, and says to me the other day that he prefers to work with Union shops which surprised me.

And he’s like “well, the unions actually get their shit done on time because they have quality control in place to make sure that their workers are properly trained and certified and the non-union shops sometimes just send some asshole that doesn’t know what he’s doing”.

I laughed at that because in any other context he’d tel you unions are awful.

Nintex

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1695 on: September 30, 2019, 03:50:37 PM »
Why do you think stagnating wages and declining unions coincide?
lazy workers, fortunately there's a solution:
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1178429549689921536
Just told my staff over the group chat they're getting new gadgets  8)

Kidding aside, the unions can't beat the autisty tech nerds of Silicon Valley.

I too, look at 200 years of labor union successes and failures and then choose the last 30 to make definitive, absolute statements on their utility.
You can look at 200 years of successes of traveling by carriage but these days I'd rather use a car to get around.  :idont
pray tell, if unions are carriages then what does the car represent?
An example in my field of work would be "TheFutur" a platform where creatives learn how to do business, ask more money for design and negotiate better.
The key is a better educated workforce that understands how business works and can take care of themselves better and I'm in favor of UBI or the Freedom Dividend(TM) to vastly simplify the system of benefits and subsidies.

These two examples are from some highly talented people. Not the same dumb dumbs banding together. Take videogame journo's for example.
Would it make any difference if Imran Khan and Patrick Klepek negotiated their wages together instead of alone? lmao.

The idea of a union is based on the fact that human labour can be used as a bargaining chip in a negotiation and that's simply not the case anymore.
Because in a globalized world there's always some scrub willing to do it for way less.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 04:06:44 PM by Nintex »
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Crash Dummy

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1696 on: September 30, 2019, 04:01:22 PM »
holy shit a reasonable post  :o

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1697 on: September 30, 2019, 04:03:36 PM »
I guess if I had taken an entrepreneurship class Kroger wouldn't have paid me $9.20/hr last year as a cashier
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Rufus

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1698 on: September 30, 2019, 04:10:22 PM »
I guess if I had taken an entrepreneurship class Kroger wouldn't have paid me $9.20/hr last year as a cashier
Even if you had, your boss would have teleported someone across the border to do your job.

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1699 on: September 30, 2019, 04:16:13 PM »

An example in my field of work would be "TheFutur" a platform where creatives learn how to do business, ask more money for design and negotiate better.
The key is a better educated workforce that understands how business works and can take care of themselves better and I'm in favor of UBI or the Freedom Dividend(TM) to vastly simplify the system of benefits and subsidies.

These two examples are from some highly talented people. Not the same dumb dumbs banding together. Take videogame journo's for example.
Would it make any difference if Imran Khan and Patrick Klepek negotiated their wages together instead of alone? lmao.

The idea of a union is based on the fact that human labour can be used as a bargaining chip in a negotiation and that's simply not the case anymore.
Because in a globalized world there's always some scrub willing to do it for way less.


Interesting point you're putting across. Tired of playing braindead?
Yeah, when AOC was trying to rep her border policies by claiming big business didn't like immigration I was like bullshit

Rufus

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1700 on: September 30, 2019, 04:32:23 PM »
Or workers/jobs as fungible as some like to pretend.

Great Rumbler

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1701 on: September 30, 2019, 06:02:53 PM »
Unions are old and lame, sweeping away the bourgeoisie in a violent socialist revolution is the new hotness! :jeb :juche
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1702 on: September 30, 2019, 07:20:14 PM »
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1703 on: September 30, 2019, 11:31:58 PM »
 :mouf
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Tripon

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1704 on: October 01, 2019, 01:27:46 AM »

shosta

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1705 on: October 01, 2019, 01:54:28 AM »
wtf is a 529 plan and how do you spend $2k a month on food
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Transhuman

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1706 on: October 01, 2019, 02:00:04 AM »
Three weeks vacation a year lol.

Crash Dummy

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1707 on: October 01, 2019, 02:06:16 AM »
Or workers/jobs as fungible as some like to pretend.
idk man, just speaking anecdotally based on my own experience/observations large businesses tend to set up KPIs around cost cutting for back office functions so they don't really shed a tear axing an employee/teams/departments if they can get scrubs for cheap even if they are in another country and not especially competent. it's extremely shortsighted but ultimately these businesses will say they exist to maximise shareholder returns and value

pilonv1

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1708 on: October 01, 2019, 06:11:42 AM »
Three weeks vacation a year lol.

plus weekend getaways and social functions
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VomKriege

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1709 on: October 01, 2019, 06:21:33 AM »
It's easier to ship jobs overseas than it ever was, for sure, but I see a lot of companies ("medium" sized ones, not multinationals) completely bungle the process, and sometimes it means it's so incompetent the shipping is delayed year after year.

And threatening to give jobs to someone else if you complain is as old as employment.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 08:47:41 AM by VomKriege »
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kingv

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1710 on: October 01, 2019, 08:38:51 AM »
From what I have seen, being in senior leadership in a company is no real guarantee that you are s good leader, businessman, or especially smart.

As a result things that are penny smart but pound foolish are easy sells because they see how the bottom linen will change without taking into account any complications.

Saw this at a company I worked at a few years ago. They were doing an agile transformation in IT and the consultant told them they would do double the work after laying off 40% of the IT department. A smart person sees that and says “no fucking way that is true” unless you think half of IT is literally doing nothing valuable.

We of course did it, and are now still trying to recover as IT is actually bigger than it was prior to the layoffs but also less experienced.

VomKriege

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1711 on: October 01, 2019, 08:58:50 AM »
I think the naked truth of it is that the "wage cost" is a line in the accounting sheet while "craftsmanship", "experience" and other invisible factors in productivity are not. Multinationals are better at it because they can probably stomach the transition pain cost and they have more people over there overseeing the operations
With medium companies it's always, as far as I've seen, a total Mickey Mouse operation of sending some guy over, sometimes not even in a permanent capacity, generally without experience in that sort of things.
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Great Rumbler

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1712 on: October 01, 2019, 09:06:25 AM »
https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1178369905244229633

I feel like this exact same income breakdown comes out from somewhere about once a year.
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1713 on: October 01, 2019, 09:25:20 AM »
"1.8M home vs. 1.6 median home price"  ::)

Sorry, but if you still have money left over after all these extravagant expenses you aren't struggling.  Highlander instead of Range Rover GTFO.
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VomKriege

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1714 on: October 01, 2019, 09:43:30 AM »
Cost of living in different countries and all that but :lol
Isn't that top 2% in the US ?
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Joe Molotov

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1715 on: October 01, 2019, 09:45:32 AM »
You just don't understand the struggles of the petty bourgeoisie, forced to sell their Range Rover and buy a Toyota Highlander to make ends meet.
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1716 on: October 01, 2019, 09:58:43 AM »
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Great Rumbler

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1717 on: October 01, 2019, 10:01:23 AM »
It's understandable but calling it struggling or expecting sympathy is ridiculous.

It's understandable because once you get a little bit of money there are a ton of social pressures to spend money;  if you really are struggling with that kind of income you need to stop succumbing to those social pressures. 

"I'm just as poor as the rest of you after I spend all my money!"
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VomKriege

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1718 on: October 01, 2019, 10:18:19 AM »
"Cash in hand" is a bit deceptive considering you've already factored in half a dozen insurance, savings schemes + leisure and vacation expenses.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 10:33:44 AM by VomKriege »
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kingv

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1719 on: October 01, 2019, 10:29:57 AM »
It really sucks to be poor because you are saving 30 grand a year and have to buy a $2 million house.

Rufus

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1720 on: October 01, 2019, 11:59:24 AM »
It's understandable because once you get a little bit of money there are a ton of social pressures to spend money;  if you really are struggling with that kind of income you need to stop succumbing to those social pressures.
Yup. My eyes glazed over after I read 24k preschool. Is there a pithy catch-all like there is for people on foodstamps? What's the "new iPhone every year" of this stratum of society?

kingv

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1721 on: October 01, 2019, 12:47:51 PM »
3 weekly vacations a year and $500/month in Entertainment

OnlyRegret

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1722 on: October 01, 2019, 03:27:43 PM »
It's understandable but calling it struggling or expecting sympathy is ridiculous.

It's understandable because once you get a little bit of money there are a ton of social pressures to spend money;  if you really are struggling with that kind of income you need to stop succumbing to those social pressures.

It's part of the intent, to frame the high earnings as not high enough to redirect any displeasure.
Then if you prod at the budget it just unravels because of all the various questions that pop up. Why a $2 million dollar house? That charity isn't intended as a legitimate budget piece but as a way to simultaneously burn through dollars on sheet and indicate the benevolence of the rich. The article's intent is for you to pity them after all, and so on.


Great Rumbler

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1723 on: October 01, 2019, 06:00:22 PM »
3 weekly vacations a year and $500/month in Entertainment

The $300 a month for charity really brings it all together, I think.
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1724 on: October 02, 2019, 12:21:39 AM »
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Tripon

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1725 on: October 02, 2019, 12:55:25 AM »

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bluemax

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1727 on: October 02, 2019, 02:08:50 AM »
It really sucks to be poor because you are saving 30 grand a year and have to buy a $2 million house.

A $2 million dollar house in Los Angeles is sadly less impressive than what one might imagine.

Example:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3611-Grand-View-Blvd-Los-Angeles-CA-90066/20457587_zpid/

I mean that's a nice house, but if you put it in almost any other state it doesn't cost that much.
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kingv

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1728 on: October 02, 2019, 08:21:07 AM »
I understand that some places are expensive, but when you are in an upper income bracket, living in a super expensive place is a choice.

But either way, I wouldn’t call that family struggling in any way. They take 3 vacations a year and max out their retirement savings.

Rman

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1729 on: October 02, 2019, 09:31:35 PM »
More fuck capitalism:


shosta

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1730 on: October 02, 2019, 09:37:04 PM »
We export this shit, too. I was reading about The Biden Plan aka Alliance for Prosperity, which was how we dumped billions of dollars into Honduras's police state after their coup for the purpose of cracking down on narco crimes, and we helped them build a giant ass American supermax prison where they could throw political prisoners in.
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1731 on: October 02, 2019, 11:55:08 PM »
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1732 on: October 03, 2019, 12:30:28 AM »
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bluemax

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1733 on: October 03, 2019, 01:07:48 AM »
The closest thing I've done to taking a vacation as an adult is visiting my parents 2 states away. And I haven't even been able to do that every year. I guess that's my penance for all this student loan debt or something.
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shosta

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1734 on: October 03, 2019, 01:15:17 AM »
Wait, you actually pay your student loan debt? :lol
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1735 on: October 03, 2019, 01:18:02 AM »
haven't paid my car loan in two and half years   :pimp
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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1738 on: October 03, 2019, 01:57:31 PM »
I wish capitalists would stop requesting sample pieces before letting me buy tons of paint

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Re: #latestagecapitalism
« Reply #1739 on: October 03, 2019, 02:30:42 PM »
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