Author Topic: The Intellectual Wank Dad [ ot ] jordan peterson Jordan Peterson JORDAN PETERSON  (Read 41794 times)

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shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #120 on: February 20, 2018, 06:52:30 PM »
Jesus you have the worst taste.
Dostoyevsky is bad taste?

Mandark

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #121 on: February 20, 2018, 06:54:19 PM »
Haven't read him but given your #mcm track record probably yeah.

etiolate

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #122 on: February 20, 2018, 06:56:15 PM »
This wasn't intended as a JBP thread. I've linked other people and associated arguments.

I put in a Pinker video, who is far more towards the biological determination end of the argument than Peterson is, but nobody blinked an eye at that. I am guessing because people weren't' told to hate Pinker, so they don't respond to his rundown of genetic influence. I imagine they didn't watch the video, but they don't watch the Peterson videos either.

benjipwns

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #123 on: February 20, 2018, 06:57:47 PM »
the brothers karamazov? crime and punishment? demons?
meowr

curly

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #124 on: February 20, 2018, 06:58:52 PM »
Dostoyevsky is great, Orwell is trash. My personal #hottake is that any Kafka story has more relevance to the present day than the entirety of 1984

etiolate

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #125 on: February 20, 2018, 06:59:03 PM »
I also didn't intend this thread as an exposing of Mandy as a hack, but here we are.

 :trumps

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #126 on: February 20, 2018, 07:00:16 PM »
Fun fact is that George Orwell's "2 and 2 is 5" actually came from Dostoyevsky's Notes From Underground. A lot of lines in that book were straight lifted from things Orwell had read like "Imagine a boot stamping on your face - forever".

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #127 on: February 20, 2018, 07:05:26 PM »
If I really had to enumerate the writers that really shaped me (in my younger years, lifelong learning is real!) or that I'm enamored with, that would include Franz Kafka, Miguel de Cervantes, Carlos Fuentes, William Faulkner, and my favorite author ever Samuel Beckett. The only reason I ever brought up Hitchens on this forum was because Mandark decided to shit all over him.

Mandark

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #128 on: February 20, 2018, 07:06:52 PM »
If I really had to enumerate the writers that really shaped me (in my younger years, lifelong learning is real!) or that I'm enamored with, that would include Franz Kafka, Miguel de Cervantes, Carlos Fuentes, William Faulkner, and my favorite author ever Samuel Beckett.

(flawless Wallace Shawn impersonation) Morons!


edit: Shosta, are you really going to make me explain that joke from upthread?

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2018, 07:13:23 PM »
(flawless Wallace Shawn impersonation) Morons!
lol this made me so insecure for a second, you have no idea.

edit: Shosta, are you really going to make me explain that joke from upthread?
The public choice theory one? Didn't you already explain it? :P

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2018, 07:18:19 PM »
Dostoyevsky is great, Orwell is trash. My personal #hottake is that any Kafka story has more relevance to the present day than the entirety of 1984
my personal favorite comparison is that we live in Brave New World now. But anyway, 1984 wasn't written for the present day, it was a long form refutation of James Burnham and the academic left which was composed almost entirely of Stalin apologists.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/zelikow-system-crisis/536205/

benjipwns

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #131 on: February 20, 2018, 07:25:55 PM »
my personal favorite comparison is that we live in Brave New World now. But anyway, 1984 wasn't written for the present day
obligatory comic i'm surprised doesn't get posted more often considering how many do:
meowr

benjipwns

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #132 on: February 20, 2018, 07:27:38 PM »
My personal #hottake is that any Kafka story has more relevance to the present day than the entirety of 1984
watch out, this is a common sentiment among libertarian, anarchist circles...i don't want to have to report you
meowr

curly

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #133 on: February 20, 2018, 07:38:09 PM »
My personal #hottake is that any Kafka story has more relevance to the present day than the entirety of 1984
watch out, this is a common sentiment among libertarian, anarchist circles...i don't want to have to report you

Ha now I'm curious on how they read Kafka although I guess it's pretty obvious

My personal opinion is that for example The Castle is a better imagination of how power operates and reproduces itself on a granular level than either 1984 or Brave New World 

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #134 on: February 20, 2018, 07:39:28 PM »
my personal favorite comparison is that we live in Brave New World now. But anyway, 1984 wasn't written for the present day
obligatory comic i'm surprised doesn't get posted more often considering how many do:
(Image removed from quote.)
I love this book by Postman (and I've even quoted it on this forum a couple of times). I also love the idea that the television was the last technological innovation that should come without a surgeon general's warning. Although I don't remember him saying "Orwell was wrong", because Orwell was not predicting a future everywhere, just predicting what the future was like in certain places under certain regimes or if their supporters succeeded in already free places... And that really did happen in the Soviet Union, then in China, then in Iraq and North Korea, and so on it will happen wherever power is the end and not just the means.

Anyway one time you said something about how Russian bots weren't some disaster because we already do that enough to ourselves without any help, and that's really true. The US (I can't speak for other cultures) is on its way to becoming a trivial culture, all promulgation without any ideation. Scary stuff. And why utopianism and modernism were really short sighted.

benjipwns

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #135 on: February 20, 2018, 07:49:32 PM »
iirc the comic has a few errors including stuff from Brave New World Revisited

and 1984 does have components of willing submission too not just imposed, i mean that's kinda the ending
meowr

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #136 on: February 20, 2018, 07:53:13 PM »
I'd argue that submission is never willing if the alternative is death or infinite pain. Will implies selection of choices but one of those is hardly a choice at all.

benjipwns

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #137 on: February 20, 2018, 07:53:52 PM »
should have read the fine print on your social contract buddy
meowr

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #138 on: February 20, 2018, 07:57:22 PM »
 :whatisthis
spoiler (click to show/hide)
:busta

Mandark

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #139 on: February 20, 2018, 08:11:49 PM »

etiolate

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #140 on: February 20, 2018, 08:42:56 PM »


The whole pod, more than two hours long, but chuck full of info.

Oblivion

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #141 on: February 21, 2018, 05:24:09 AM »
looks like etiolate's goal in creating a controversial thread was extremely successful
Yes, because those are the things Jordan fucking Peterson is known for.
They're not, but look: you were mocking the claim that Jordan Peterson isn't right wing. Besides the fact that collapsing people into one of two ideologies along a single political spectrum is totally inadequate, I was pointing out that even if you tried to you'd get a lot of contradictions. People on the right love him because he criticizes the political left but that's a temporary alignment on social issues, not an accurate or by any means complete characterization. So when you say "but no. 1 with right wingers, go figure," well, that's on you to go figure that out, actually.


What possible relevance does mentioning those supposedly leftists beliefs of his have on the subject at hand? It doesn't matter if JP believes in UHC if he almost never fucking talks about it. This is like if Trump came out and said that he personally wanted to appoint someone that the Center For American Progress recommended to the SC, a day after he already appointed Neil Gorsuch. Or like if he came out in support of climate change the day after he shredded the Paris Agreement. Or if he said he was in favor of raising taxes on the rich a day after passing his recent shitty tax cut bill. And so on and so on.

Do you understand this? Why the fuck should anybody care about what somebody supposedly believes if they're not actually acting on it? How much time do you think JP has dedicated to discussing progressive solutions to inequality within the five thousand hours of lectures he has on youtube? I'd be surprised if it was literally 15 minutes total since he mentions it only in passing, or when directly asked about it. Again, look at the ratio of likes/retweets between the two opposing gun control tweets he posted. It's not even fucking close. He knows damn well who's buttering his bread.

To say that JP believes in climate change is about as germane to the discussion as pointing out what his favorite brand of toilet paper is.

Speaking of, where the hell did you get the idea that he believes in climate change? :lol

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/825871336333574144?lang=en

shosta

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« Reply #142 on: February 21, 2018, 05:48:35 AM »
Wow it goes deeper:
https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/7tiaer/peterson_and_climate_change_a_collection

Lol why did I even think that. It was either projection or he said something about us raping the rainforests once and I extrapolated way too far. Seems to me like he panders to the right for the speaking opportunities etc. I still don't think the characterization is accurate but I see where you're coming from.

Quote
Do you understand this?
wow man chill out, your anima possession is out of control ey

Oblivion

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #143 on: February 21, 2018, 05:55:51 AM »


Quote
Do you understand this?
wow man chill out, your anima possession is out of control ey

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, it's just that this particular type of discussion has been triggering me more than any other in the past few months.  Mainly cause the people I've spoken to have had an incredible degree of disingenuousness when they bring it up.

shosta

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #144 on: February 21, 2018, 06:21:45 AM »
Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, it's just that this particular type of discussion has been triggering me more than any other in the past few months.  Mainly cause the people I've spoken to have had an incredible degree of disingenuousness when they bring it up.
Which type? From me or other people? And it's all good, everyone has something that makes them fly off the handle. If it makes you feel better, I'm open to saying that as far as he's as a political commentator (since he's chosen to step out of his wheelhouse and do that now) he's a right leaning libertarian type who's chosen to make his cause be anti social justice stuff and biologically based skepticism. Really limited scope but still fair.

Oblivion

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #145 on: February 21, 2018, 06:43:55 AM »
Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, it's just that this particular type of discussion has been triggering me more than any other in the past few months.  Mainly cause the people I've spoken to have had an incredible degree of disingenuousness when they bring it up.
Which type? From me or other people?

People who defend the "classical liberal" types that have become quite en vogue recently by pointing to their supposed liberal beliefs. And not you, other people on other forums.

hungrynoob

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #146 on: February 21, 2018, 07:54:08 AM »
Hey someone should call UoT and tell them his views on climate change invalidate his research and knowledge in psychology.

Rufus

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #147 on: February 21, 2018, 10:00:37 AM »
That's not what Oblivion was saying, hungrynoob.

etiolate

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #148 on: February 21, 2018, 10:37:39 AM »
Oblivion was saying nothing. He was just playing a game of gotcha because he doesn't understand the conversation and some form of media told him he should be angry at and scared of the conversation.

Mandark

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« Reply #149 on: February 21, 2018, 10:41:35 AM »
Quote from: Patrick Moore
Here is the shocking news. If humans had not begun to unlock some of the carbon stored as fossil fuels, all of which had been in the atmosphere as CO2 before sequestration by plants and animals, life on Earth would have soon been starved of this essential nutrient and would begin to die. Given the present trends of glaciations and interglacial periods this would likely have occurred less than 2 million years from today, a blink in nature’s eye, 0.05% of the 3.5 billion-year history of life.

bwahahahahaha

hungrynoob

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« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2018, 11:05:21 AM »
Then what relevancy has it in this conversation? I wrote a convoluted post and ended up scrapping it in favour of that. The way I see it is, here is a man gaining popularity/notoriety speaking from a position that he knows probably a lot better than most of us, then those of us who support him also get lambasted for listening to someone talking out his arse. Here's the thing, if thats what you truly believe, you must think his time at the university of toronto to be some fluke, despite being ranked #12 in the world for psychology, but no, he must be talking out his arse because you dont like the things he says because it doesnt fit your view of people. And its always the same, it comes from a place of contempt and condescension, rather than refuting with actual evidence and fact, the people who go out their way to present their opinion this way are hoping if they make people feel bad about their opinion that somehow that will be enough to change it, and that attitude highlights my biggest weakness, I am an argumentative cunt and I will respond in the same way that i feel i am being approached. Following on from that, in the absence of facts and evidence to support these opinions the conversation is tracked onto something unrelated, in attempt to discredit his character, and when group identity is paramount, that alone is enough for some people to accept that if he must be wrong on some things thats very hard to get wrong, especially something like climate change, then he must be a kook. That is the insinuation being made here. Heres the thing, I dont agree with everything that comes out JP's mouth, I disagree on his stance on muslims, climate change, and even that comment he made about being able to go to the police about sexual harassment 40 years ago, but that doesnt mean i discredit his work, or views in an absolutist sense. And im sorry, but more and more it seems to be socialist advocates that I see enter these conversations with the greatest amount of contempt, and as far as im concerned, good people dont convince others of their moral superiority from that position.

Heres a good interview between british socialist advocate russel brand and JP, and as good as this interview is, RB shows nothing but contempt to JP throughout the whole interview, whilst JP tries to re-conciliate the gap between them on multiple occasions without abandoning his own truths. There seems to be this misconception floating around that if you are arguing from a standpoint of perceived moral superiority that it automatically makes you a good person, but I do not see that at all.




Mandark

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #151 on: February 21, 2018, 11:12:01 AM »
being ranked #12 in the world for psychology

Is that in his weight class or pound-for-pound?

hungrynoob

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #152 on: February 21, 2018, 11:35:09 AM »
being ranked #12 in the world for psychology

Is that in his weight class or pound-for-pound?

the department of psychology in the university of toronto's ranking worldwide.

Mandark

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #153 on: February 21, 2018, 11:41:58 AM »
According to the WBC or like Ring Magazine?

Rufus

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« Reply #154 on: February 21, 2018, 11:43:47 AM »
Oblivion was saying nothing. He was just playing a game of gotcha
Given your response to Toku's links, it's fair game. Besides, we can have more than one conversation at a time. Or 'conversation', as it were.

To Peterson's readers, where does his work go that Steven Pinker didn't in "The Blank Slate"? That's the last thing I've read on nature vs nurture. (The comical fixation on post-modernism as a portend of doom, while amusing and reason for much if not most derision is ultimately pretty boring.)

etiolate

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« Reply #155 on: February 21, 2018, 12:03:04 PM »
My response to Zizek? I didn't find what he was saying coherent enough to make a statement on. I am not sure how much Zizek's misunderstandings impact his view. Apparently Peterson and he will debate, which will be more useful.

In comparison to Pinker:

Peterson gets far more into the metaphysical and how the nature aspect relates to human history and mythology. He has a whole lecture series on the book of Genesis. He has lectures that often delve into his study of Nazi and Communist atrocities. He's much more concerned with concepts of good and evil, and fact, truth, meaning and wisdom. He's also a clinical psych who is still practicing to some degree and his point of view seems much more aligned with life outside of the academics. Pinker tends to sound very much like someone who spends a lot of time in research and university circles.

The post-modernist stuff isn't irrelevant, since it seems most of the public is not up to date on the nature v nurture discussion. That large gap in understanding seems to stem from the same culture that produces these intersectional progressive stacks.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 12:08:03 PM by etiolate »

Rufus

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #156 on: February 21, 2018, 12:30:02 PM »
I am not sure how much Zizek's misunderstandings impact his view.
You keep doing that. Stop doing that. It's nothing more than a pre-emptive "gotcha", if you will. If you're vexed at people dismissing Peterson for easily mockable tweets, you should be vexed at this, too, as the end result isn't substantially different.

In comparison to Pinker:

Peterson gets far more into the metaphysical and how the nature aspect relates to human history and mythology. He has a whole lecture series on the book of Genesis. He has lectures that often delve into his study of Nazi and Communist atrocities. He's much more concerned with concepts of good and evil, and fact, truth, meaning and wisdom. He's also a clinical psych who is still practicing to some degree and his point of view seems much more aligned with life outside of the academics. Pinker tends to sound very much like someone who spends a lot of time in research and university circles.
Any particular work you'd point to? Extending this to Shosta as well. I wanna see what it was that blew your mind, if you don't mind me boiling the pathos down to something so pithy. :doge

No hour(s)-long videos, please. Not unless there's a transcript.

Oblivion

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #157 on: February 21, 2018, 01:11:45 PM »
Hey someone should call UoT and tell them his views on climate change invalidate his research and knowledge in psychology.

As Rufus said, that's not what I was saying.

Oblivion was saying nothing. He was just playing a game of gotcha because he doesn't understand the conversation and some form of media told him he should be angry at and scared of the conversation.

 This is particularly hilarious considering it's pretty damn easy to follow why I made the last few posts. I was responding to Shos' post about why any supposedly leftist beliefs JP holds is irrelevant to the broader conversation about the audience to who he's appealing to.

And LOL at the idea that I (or anyone else) is mad at Peterson because "the media" is telling us to be. It couldn't be that I think his comments on trans activists being comparable to Mao or Stalin, or that feminists love radical islam (wtf?) because they secretly desire to be dominated by men, or that Frozen is feminist propaganda and propaganda itself can never be art, are utterly distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed comments. No, that certainly can't be it.

Here's the thing, if thats what you truly believe, you must think his time at the university of toronto to be some fluke, despite being ranked #12 in the world for psychology, but no, he must be talking out his arse because you dont like the things he says because it doesnt fit your view of people.

How does being a high ranking psychologist make him qualified to talk about the evils of postmodernism/cultural marxism again?

I don't think even the most hardcore Peterson hater has said he hasn't done decent work in that field. But that's the thing. In that field. When he jumps out of there to talk about politics, sociology and climate science, is when he starts raising the ole' eyebrows. I think you guys know this, but are still trying to be deliberately obtuse, otherwise you wouldn't constantly bring up his psych cred, since that's not the shit people have a problem with!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 01:23:24 PM by Oblivion »

etiolate

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« Reply #158 on: February 21, 2018, 01:50:13 PM »
I am not sure how much Zizek's misunderstandings impact his view.
You keep doing that. Stop doing that. It's nothing more than a pre-emptive "gotcha", if you will. If you're vexed at people dismissing Peterson for easily mockable tweets, you should be vexed at this, too, as the end result isn't substantially different.

In comparison to Pinker:

Peterson gets far more into the metaphysical and how the nature aspect relates to human history and mythology. He has a whole lecture series on the book of Genesis. He has lectures that often delve into his study of Nazi and Communist atrocities. He's much more concerned with concepts of good and evil, and fact, truth, meaning and wisdom. He's also a clinical psych who is still practicing to some degree and his point of view seems much more aligned with life outside of the academics. Pinker tends to sound very much like someone who spends a lot of time in research and university circles.
Any particular work you'd point to? Extending this to Shosta as well. I wanna see what it was that blew your mind, if you don't mind me boiling the pathos down to something so pithy. :doge

No hour(s)-long videos, please. Not unless there's a transcript.

If Zizek is doing a critique of what Peterson says then it's relevant to make sure Zizek understands what Peterson was saying. That's not a gotcha.


Unfortunately, getting into Peterson means hour long videos. Getting into all of this stuff means longform video and discussion. That's why I tried to make that shift back to longer form discussion the question in the OP. The Weinstein discssions, the Pinker talks, There is no shortcut on this. The best you can do is clips, but people tend to do ad libs with the clips and fill in a bunch of things that are not said.

This is a bit on the true translation of "the meek shall inherit the earth".



Modern scientific materialism versus the way we approach and act out life


And then a deeper dive into his view of science and religion.


etiolate

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« Reply #159 on: February 21, 2018, 01:54:41 PM »
Oblivion: Why have there been several right-wing and Christian Conservatism politicians and speakers who have publicly argued against or condemned homosexuality and gay marriage who end up being outed as living a secret homosexual lifestyle? Why do you think they live this conflicted life? Why were they so outspoken against what they secretly practiced?

Mandark

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« Reply #160 on: February 21, 2018, 03:28:19 PM »
or that Frozen is feminist propaganda and propaganda itself can never be art

Whaaaaaaaaaaat

*quick google search*

Oh dear.

Oblivion

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« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2018, 08:10:38 PM »
Oblivion: Why have there been several right-wing and Christian Conservatism politicians and speakers who have publicly argued against or condemned homosexuality and gay marriage who end up being outed as living a secret homosexual lifestyle? Why do you think they live this conflicted life? Why were they so outspoken against what they secretly practiced?

I do hope you're not taking this where I think you are...

shosta

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« Reply #162 on: February 21, 2018, 08:28:42 PM »
he's calling you gay, bro

curly

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« Reply #163 on: February 21, 2018, 08:59:46 PM »
Oblivion: Why have there been several right-wing and Christian Conservatism politicians and speakers who have publicly argued against or condemned homosexuality and gay marriage who end up being outed as living a secret homosexual lifestyle? Why do you think they live this conflicted life? Why were they so outspoken against what they secretly practiced?


etiolate

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2018, 08:59:52 PM »
Oblivion

I am tired of misrepresentation, lying and dumbassery.

So I don't know why you're here.

Atramental

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #165 on: February 21, 2018, 09:04:04 PM »


The whole pod, more than two hours long, but chuck full of info.
This is a really good interview.

Oblivion

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Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2018, 09:20:00 PM »
Oblivion

I am tired of misrepresentation, lying and dumbassery.

So I don't know why you're here.

Saying this in a thread about Jordan Peterson  :lol

I'm curious what you think I misrepresented or lied about? I posted several examples of Peterson's stupider comments which you happily ignored. Tell me how the comment about Frozen is in fact far more profound than us low IQ mortals are able to comprehend.

Oblivion

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« Reply #167 on: February 21, 2018, 09:23:57 PM »
Fucking hell. It's the height of hilarity that you're bitching about "lying" and "misrepresentation" while stanning for some clown who was so full of shit on his claim to fame that the fucking Canadian Bar Association had to come out and tell everyone that he had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

etiolate

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« Reply #168 on: February 21, 2018, 09:31:29 PM »
The 50 Shades comment was in response to the question of the dissonance between Western Feminist ideals and their support/blind eye to Islamists and women's suffering abroad. I am pretty sure I explained this already, but he said there can be several reasons and offered that one may be repressed feelings in the subconscious leaking out. He mentioned the face of feminism and yet the popularity of a dominatrix erotica book. This isn't shocking, unless you misrepresent it as him saying Western Feminists like Islamists because they want to be dominated. You need to be clever enough to know that is not what he's saying. He's offering various reasons for something in the world that doesn't line up. You keyed in on one because it was a soundbite taken out of context.

He has a view of Frozen as propaganda or being inspired by it. I don't agree with him on that. However, kids cartoons being propaganda of a sort is nothing new. He owns many Soviet artifacts and art pieces so obviously he can see how propaganda can be art. He's actually said great art surpasses the propaganda its designed to be. My view is that certain forms of art can surpass their propaganda aims, but not all. I have yet to read any of the Soviet Realism prop novels or short literature that is redeemable. The only enjoyable works from that period are the poetry and the novels that worked to subvert Soviet idealism. (Like Bulgakov and Platonov.)

You started off the thread with the Vice clip. The make-up bit was explained to you on the first page. You then came back on the second page with the unedited version... which explained even more. And you somehow thought it was worse? 

You keep thinking you've finally found the one flaw in your purity test of the guy. All I can say is the sunset over the ocean horizon is offensive to a flat earther.

curly

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #169 on: February 21, 2018, 09:53:40 PM »
The 50 Shades comment was in response to the question of the dissonance between Western Feminist ideals and their support/blind eye to Islamists and women's suffering abroad. I am pretty sure I explained this already, but he said there can be several reasons and offered that one may be repressed feelings in the subconscious leaking out. He mentioned the face of feminism and yet the popularity of a dominatrix erotica book. This isn't shocking, unless you misrepresent it as him saying Western Feminists like Islamists because they want to be dominated.

Hmmmmmmmmmm....

Quote
the dissonance between Western Feminist ideals and their support/blind eye to Islamists and women's suffering abroad

+

Quote
there can be several reasons and offered that one may be repressed feelings in the subconscious leaking out

=

Quote
him saying Western Feminists like Islamists because they want to be dominated.


etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #170 on: February 21, 2018, 10:08:55 PM »
It could be one of the factors. It's an idea in testing. There were other reaons, such as enemy of enemy logic. That suppressed hormones may leak out in weird ways is nothing surprising.


curly

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #171 on: February 21, 2018, 10:19:44 PM »
So...you were wrong.

Also:


He explicitly says the thing you said he wasn't here, with no qualification, around the 7 minute mark.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 10:26:20 PM by curly »

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #172 on: February 21, 2018, 10:31:50 PM »
And he agrees with their other reasons.

Again, do you think that public officials who make loud condemnations and arguments against homosexuality and gay marriage who are caught having secret homosexual relationships are suppressing themselves? Do you think this happens?

Okay, maybe some feminists and women do this. Why is 50 Shades huge?

This isn't dumb or shocking. He is a proponent of Jungian ideas and the unconsciousness.

curly

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #173 on: February 21, 2018, 11:07:31 PM »
Did you mean to say unconscious?

Anyway the comparison doesn't hold up. A closeted homophobe is hiding his sexual desire from the public eye. You say that feminists suffer from a similarly repressed sexual desire to be dominated. If this is the case, then, why isn't Fifty Shades of Grey more controversial? If feminism forbids this desire, there should have been protests, boycotts, online firestorms. God knows we as a culture love turning popular entertainment into political battlegrounds. The answer is that current day feminism, if we are to generalize its many strains, doesn't have a problem with BDSM or fantasies of sexual subjugation. Freudian cliches about repressed desire aren't some unknown truth we need Jordan Peterson to unearth for us, they're a cornerstone of our thinking about sex. So if a women wants to "express her hormones" she doesn't have to go become Muhammad's seventh wife, she has plenty of other avenues to satisfy her kink.

Also the idea that feminists are allied with radical Islam is ridiculous and an indication of Peterson's conspiratorial thinking.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #174 on: February 21, 2018, 11:23:26 PM »
yah sorry auto correct

We do not publicly litigate feminine desires as we do masculine desires. The masculine sexual desire is always seen as vulgar. Also, men buy way fewer books than women do, so there is little consumer interest in their objection to it. It resides largely with women to debate this phenomena. (And this is if there is male rejection to it, which maybe there is not.)

Linda Sarsour is an outspoken Islamist who organized the Women's March and is very active in feminism. The attention paid upon false monsters like the patriarchy is a distraction from issues of inequality around the world.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 11:27:40 PM by etiolate »

recursivelyenumerable

  • you might think that; I couldn't possibly comment
  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #175 on: February 22, 2018, 01:40:23 AM »
i'm not too familiar with jordan peterson but apparently he is an expert on the jungian archetypes in the collective unconscious of lobsters? sounds p cool to me tbh
QED

Momo

  • c y b o r e p u n k
  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #176 on: February 22, 2018, 01:59:28 AM »


The whole pod, more than two hours long, but chuck full of info.
This is a really good interview.
I watched this last night while half asleep and didnt hear 2% of what was said, worth re-listening to?

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #177 on: February 22, 2018, 02:02:39 AM »
Podcast Highlight:

Of the 4-5k mammal species on the planet earth, human females are the one variant of mammals to display full breasts outside of lactation/birth cycles.


We are fortunate.

shosta

  • enfant misérable
  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #178 on: February 22, 2018, 02:42:00 AM »
I didn't think it was good. Stopped halfway through. If they had something interesting to say they would have put it at the front. Also that guy was such a loser, no sense of humor.

seagrams hotsauce

  • Senior Member
Re: The Intellectual Dank Wad [ ot ] Swallow It Down
« Reply #179 on: February 22, 2018, 02:51:01 AM »
Also that guy was such a loser, no sense of humor.

Seriously. It's amazing how long Joe Rogan has gotten away with calling himself a comedian.