Race/Culture/Gender Shitposting Thread Sponsored By Cream

[HardcoreRetro]

Have you looked at the list of genders?

If two spirit and autigender (The gender that only autistic people understand) are a thing. One for fat people or a fat acceptance one doesn't seem that farfetched to me.

[stufte]

How can you relate this to race or gender?

DO YOU NOT SEE HER RACE AND GENDER BECAUSE SHES FAT???

[Propagandhim]

Yeah, the data doesn't seem to support that, at all.

We study the sources of racial and ethnic disparities in income using de-identified longitudinal data covering nearly the entire U.S. population from 1989-2015. We document three sets of results. First, the intergenerational persistence of disparities varies substantially across racial groups. For example, Hispanic Americans are moving up significantly in the income distribution across generations because they have relatively high rates of intergenerational income mobility. In contrast, black Americans have substantially lower rates of upward mobility and higher rates of downward mobility than whites, leading to large income disparities that persist across generations. Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women. Second, differences in family characteristics such as parental marital status, education, and wealth explain very little of the black-white income gap conditional on parent income. Differences in ability also do not explain the patterns of intergenerational mobility we document. Third, the black-white gap persists even among boys who grow up in the same neighborhood. Controlling for parental income, black boys have lower incomes in adulthood than white boys in 99% of Census tracts. Both black and white boys have better outcomes in low-poverty areas, but black-white gaps are larger on average for boys who grow up in such neighborhoods. The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase upward mobility specifically for black men.

The study, based on anonymous earnings and demographic data for virtually all Americans now in their late 30s, debunks a number of other widely held hypotheses about income inequality. Gaps persisted even when black and white boys grew up in families with the same income, similar family structures, similar education levels and even similar levels of accumulated wealth.

The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research.

A more likely possibility, the authors suggest, is that test scores don’t accurately measure the abilities of black children in the first place.

If this inequality can’t be explained by individual or household traits, much of what matters probably lies outside the home — in surrounding neighborhoods, in the economy and in a society that views black boys differently from white boys, and even from black girls.

“One of the most popular liberal post-racial ideas is the idea that the fundamental problem is class and not race, and clearly this study explodes that idea,” said Ibram Kendi, a professor and director of the Antiracist Research and Policy Center at American University. “But for whatever reason, we’re unwilling to stare racism in the face.”

The authors, including the Stanford economist Raj Chetty and two census researchers, Maggie R. Jones and Sonya R. Porter, tried to identify neighborhoods where poor black boys do well, and as well as whites.

“The problem,” Mr. Chetty said, “is that there are essentially no such neighborhoods in America.”

The few neighborhoods that met this standard were in areas that showed less discrimination in surveys and tests of racial bias. They mostly had low poverty rates. And, intriguingly, these pockets — including parts of the Maryland suburbs of Washington, and corners of Queens and the Bronx — were the places where many lower-income black children had fathers at home. Poor black boys did well in such places, whether their own fathers were present or not.

But don't fret, it knocks down some of the liberal talking points as well. So at least you have something to hang your jaded libertarian hate hat on.

http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/assets/documents/race_paper.pdf

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Can’t wait for all the usual suspects here to ignore this.

So black women score lower on their SATs, get into worse colleges and education programs, and..... fair exactly the same as white women in employment and wages? --- and, amazingly, your takeaway is that white supremacy is the overarching reality in America.  Because the lower scores of black men can't possibly mean anything if black women are achieving the same as white women despite having worse credentials.  Ergo, there must be nefarious reasons for why black men are not achieving parity with white men.  Do i have this right?

[Cream]

Yeah, the data doesn't seem to support that, at all.

We study the sources of racial and ethnic disparities in income using de-identified longitudinal data covering nearly the entire U.S. population from 1989-2015. We document three sets of results. First, the intergenerational persistence of disparities varies substantially across racial groups. For example, Hispanic Americans are moving up significantly in the income distribution across generations because they have relatively high rates of intergenerational income mobility. In contrast, black Americans have substantially lower rates of upward mobility and higher rates of downward mobility than whites, leading to large income disparities that persist across generations. Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women. Second, differences in family characteristics such as parental marital status, education, and wealth explain very little of the black-white income gap conditional on parent income. Differences in ability also do not explain the patterns of intergenerational mobility we document. Third, the black-white gap persists even among boys who grow up in the same neighborhood. Controlling for parental income, black boys have lower incomes in adulthood than white boys in 99% of Census tracts. Both black and white boys have better outcomes in low-poverty areas, but black-white gaps are larger on average for boys who grow up in such neighborhoods. The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase upward mobility specifically for black men.

The study, based on anonymous earnings and demographic data for virtually all Americans now in their late 30s, debunks a number of other widely held hypotheses about income inequality. Gaps persisted even when black and white boys grew up in families with the same income, similar family structures, similar education levels and even similar levels of accumulated wealth.

The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research.

A more likely possibility, the authors suggest, is that test scores don’t accurately measure the abilities of black children in the first place.

If this inequality can’t be explained by individual or household traits, much of what matters probably lies outside the home — in surrounding neighborhoods, in the economy and in a society that views black boys differently from white boys, and even from black girls.

“One of the most popular liberal post-racial ideas is the idea that the fundamental problem is class and not race, and clearly this study explodes that idea,” said Ibram Kendi, a professor and director of the Antiracist Research and Policy Center at American University. “But for whatever reason, we’re unwilling to stare racism in the face.”

The authors, including the Stanford economist Raj Chetty and two census researchers, Maggie R. Jones and Sonya R. Porter, tried to identify neighborhoods where poor black boys do well, and as well as whites.

“The problem,” Mr. Chetty said, “is that there are essentially no such neighborhoods in America.”

The few neighborhoods that met this standard were in areas that showed less discrimination in surveys and tests of racial bias. They mostly had low poverty rates. And, intriguingly, these pockets — including parts of the Maryland suburbs of Washington, and corners of Queens and the Bronx — were the places where many lower-income black children had fathers at home. Poor black boys did well in such places, whether their own fathers were present or not.

But don't fret, it knocks down some of the liberal talking points as well. So at least you have something to hang your jaded libertarian hate hat on.

http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/assets/documents/race_paper.pdf

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Can’t wait for all the usual suspects here to ignore this.

So black women score lower on their SATs, get into worse colleges and education programs, and..... fair exactly the same as white women in employment and wages? --- and, amazingly, your takeaway is that white supremacy is the overarching reality in America.  Because the lower scores of black men can't possibly mean anything if black women are achieving the same as white women despite having worse credentials.  Ergo, there must be nefarious reasons for why black men are not achieving parity with white men.  Do i have this right?

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

[Broseidon]

Can’t wait for all the usual suspects here to ignore this.

This type of passive-aggressive shitpost is just as obnoxious here as it was on GAF and is on RE

[I'm a Puppy!]

She's a strong woman who don't need no man.

Haha black woman stereotype, so funny.

Can't bait those who don't care.

[Propagandhim]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

[Cream]

Can’t wait for all the usual suspects here to ignore this.

This type of passive-aggressive shitpost is just as obnoxious here as it was on GAF and is on RE

 Almost as obnoxious as being consistently misgendered despite a mod telling people to stop, and being told by another mod to “get over it”

Get over it.

[Cream]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

[etiolate]

cream

If you're real then you justify the Social Studies Warrior talk that the prudes here hate. In a way, your sincerity would, to the ass-stablishment of the bore, justify every Assimilate post.

So you can't be real. You'll never win that battle.

[sphagnum]

Cream, Resetera is the extreme left version of /r/the_donald. Thoughts?

Our socialism thread doesn't even tolerate tankies so "extreme left" is silly.

[etiolate]

Can modern consoles realistically  render the animations and folds of a fat princess or is this a PC Master Race exclusive?

Discuss among yourselves

[I'm a Puppy!]

We should make KH3 more fat inclusive

[etiolate]

Gettin mad inclusive up in this place

[agrajag]

cream

If you're real then you justify the Social Studies Warrior talk that the prudes here hate. In a way, your sincerity would, to the ass-stablishment of the bore, justify every Assimilate post.

So you can't be real. You'll never win that battle.

Nice hot take, but assimilate is the one that keeps insisting that he can't be real 

[etiolate]

I feel like you didn't understand what was said there.

[HardcoreRetro]

I feel like you didn't understand what was said there.

*Just imagine I quoted that Rick and Morty quote here, I can't be arsed to look for it*

[Propagandhim]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

[Assimilate]

Cream gives Boreans what they've always wanted: Ree/gaf like stupid endless arguments without the fear of getting banned 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Until Bork starts menstruating   

[close]

[bork]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know that other motherfuckers here complained about all this shit, right?  Other people.

[close]

[Cream]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects. Seen as subhuman. When we got freedom, the hatred multiplied tenfold. There is a very very deep rooted culture of seeing black men as just animals. Thugs. Emmitt Till, a child, was beaten and murdered because a white girl accussed him of flirting with her. So much has been done to keep them down. Black Wall Street firebombed. The war on drugs. Now that they’ve been effectively kept down, never given a chance, it’s easy for people to just think they are the problem.

[Cream]

cream

If you're real then you justify the Social Studies Warrior talk that the prudes here hate. In a way, your sincerity would, to the ass-stablishment of the bore, justify every Assimilate post.

So you can't be real. You'll never win that battle.

You think me being annoying justifies horrible bigotry, racism and transphobia? That’s fucked up.

[Cream]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

[etiolate]

"even when people are being nice you call them racist"

[HardcoreRetro]

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects.

It actually started with white slaves that they got from the tower of London. Turns out the modern Jim Crow was started in like the early 1600s.

[etiolate]

[Uncle]

Now doing the double reply thing on purpose in an attempt to make it look it was never done by accident when switching alts

[Cream]

"even when people are being nice you call them racist"

You just said “if you are real, it justifies all the awful things assimiliate says about you and people like you. So you must be fake.” How is that nice?

[Cream]

Now doing the double reply thing on purpose in an attempt to make it look it was never done by accident when switching alts

I’m on mobile so pasting multiple quotes is annoying. If this were a modern forum it would have multiquote!

[etiolate]

[Rufus]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know that other motherfuckers here complained about all this shit, right?  Other people.

[close]

Tsk. Relatively recent arrivals, I take it? The trash thread is for trash, as was evident by the frequent pages-long detours about all manner of random nonsense. Wth made this particular hoopla so unbearable to them?

[Cream]

(Image removed from quote.)

So how was anything you said nice, etiolate?

[etiolate]

I was trying to help you out. Trying to show you were real by pointing out ways you could improve your reasoning. Pointing out things you do that make people dismiss you.

Your response was "ur racist" every time.

When I tell you that you being sincere means the anti-Social Studies Warrior posts gain legitimacy so people who do not want to face your type of behavior as real will invest heavily into your being a troll for the mental defense of their worldview.. you say "ur racist".

[Cream]

I was trying to help you out. Trying to show you were real by pointing out ways you could improve your reasoning. Pointing out things you do that make people dismiss you.

Your response was "ur racist" every time.

When I tell you that you being sincere means the anti-Social Studies Warrior posts gain legitimacy so people who do not want to face your type of behavior as real will invest heavily into your being a troll for the mental defense of their worldview.. you say "ur racist".

I never said YOU. Read what I fucking wrote after reading what YOU wrote.

You said it would justify “every Assimiliate Post”. That motherfucker constantly says openly bigoted, racist and transphobic things.

[Assimilate]

cream

If you're real then you justify the Social Studies Warrior talk that the prudes here hate. In a way, your sincerity would, to the ass-stablishment of the bore, justify every Assimilate post.

So you can't be real. You'll never win that battle.

You think me being annoying justifies horrible bigotry, racism and transphobia? That’s fucked up.

I've asked multiple times for you to show how i've been any of those things and yet... crickets.

You said it would justify “every Assimiliate Post”. That motherfucker constantly says openly bigoted, racist and transphobic things.

Prove this bro. Prove it.

[Propagandhim]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

The issue with these studies is that they never delineate their methodology in the research itself.  They rarely are explicit with education background: For example, I went to a selective top 30 school but got a worthless degree and had a shitty job after college.  It wasn't until I went back for more training and got more skills that things improved.  A friend of mine went to a high-acceptance rate state school for engineering and did much better than me.  I'd say his education background was (and still is) much better than mine and he had better qualifications, but a lot of these studies just look at school ranking or GPA without regard to major, etc.   Blacks are over-represented among the low paying college majors and under-represented in STEM: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/african-americans-over-represented-among-low-paying-college-majors.  If you don't show that you're controlling for the most important variables that matter in income, what's the point?

[etiolate]

BOUNDARIES BROKEN

[Cream]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

The issue with these studies is that they never delineate their methodology in the research itself.  They rarely are explicit with education background: For example, I went to a selective top 30 school but got a worthless degree and had a shitty job after college.  It wasn't until I went back for more training and got more skills that things improved.  A friend of mine went to a high-acceptance rate state school for engineering and did much better than me.  I'd say his education background was (and still is) much better than mine and he had better qualifications, but a lot of these studies just look at school ranking or GPA without regard to major, etc.   Blacks are over-represented among the low paying college majors and under-represented in STEM: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/african-americans-over-represented-among-low-paying-college-majors.  If you don't show that you're controlling for the most important variables that matter in income, what's the point?

Are you saying that black men might be doing so poorly because they aren’t choosing the right major?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/02/the-economys-troubling-double-standard-for-black-men/?utm_term=.bea6f0e0e370

A black man with a BA has the same job opportunities as a white male dropout.

2003 study published in the American Journal of Sociology found that black candidates applying for entry-level jobs in Milwaukee were less likely to be called back for an interview than white candidates with criminal records.

[Propagandhim]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

The issue with these studies is that they never delineate their methodology in the research itself.  They rarely are explicit with education background: For example, I went to a selective top 30 school but got a worthless degree and had a shitty job after college.  It wasn't until I went back for more training and got more skills that things improved.  A friend of mine went to a high-acceptance rate state school for engineering and did much better than me.  I'd say his education background was (and still is) much better than mine and he had better qualifications, but a lot of these studies just look at school ranking or GPA without regard to major, etc.   Blacks are over-represented among the low paying college majors and under-represented in STEM: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/african-americans-over-represented-among-low-paying-college-majors.  If you don't show that you're controlling for the most important variables that matter in income, what's the point?

Are you saying that black men might be doing so poorly because they aren’t choosing the right major?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/02/the-economys-troubling-double-standard-for-black-men/?utm_term=.bea6f0e0e370

A black man with a BA has the same job opportunities as a white male dropout.

2003 study published in the American Journal of Sociology found that black candidates applying for entry-level jobs in Milwaukee were less likely to be called back for an interview than white candidates with criminal records.

This is what I'm talking about.  They are not being specific about "education levels".  We know that blacks are overrepresented in low-paying majors and under-represented in high-paying ones.  But the study you linked just shows comparisons with everyone with a "Bachelor's Degree".  I feel like people that devise these studies do this on purpose, because this is the most obtuse, idiotic oversight that any serious sociologist could make for showing income disparity in educational achievement. 

"A black man with an associates degree has the same chances -- about 88 percent-- of finding a job as a white high school graduate, according to a recent analysis of employment rates and education for whites and minorities by Young Invincibles, a nonprofit group focusing on the economic issues impacting millennials. Getting a bachelor's degree ups those chances to 93 percent for a black man, the same as a white man who dropped out of college."
 
Again, are they controlling for the degrees?  Who is getting what income with what degree?  There are plenty of associates degrees that are garbage, and if blacks are overrepresented in junk degrees, then this is an expected outcome.

[Propagandhim]

Trying to read more about the Milwaukee criminal record study -- can't find the research paper just yet, just articles giving a cursory run through of it without mentioning the numbers.  if you know the sample size, let me know.  The results sound pretty damning, but I want to make sure it's not statistical noise (from a difference of like 3 or 4 applicants) than a largescale thing.  In that case, that would be fucked.


Edit: found it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3807133/  Yep, 700 tests at p < .01.  You're right, there is racial bias in this case.  Thanks for showing me this.

[Cream]

Trying to read more about the Milwaukee criminal record study -- can't find the research paper just yet, just articles giving a cursory run through of it without mentioning the numbers.  if you know the sample size, let me know.  The results sound pretty damning, but I want to make sure it's not statistical noise (from a difference of like 3 or 4 applicants) than a largescale thing.  In that case, that would be fucked.


Edit: found it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3807133/  Yep, 700 tests at p < .01.  You're right, there is racial bias in this case.  Thanks for showing me this.

Thank you, sincerely, for engaging.

I found this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/09/16/racial-disparities-in-college-major-selection-exacerbates-earnings-gap-3/?utm_term=.97a875b9dcb6

There is no singular reason for the racial disparities within majors, but centuries of racial discrimination, uneven budgetary support for K-12 education and poor academic advising and student support contribute to the problem, said Tom Allison, deputy director of policy and research at Young Invincibles, and one of the authors of the study.

At the University of Maryland Baltimore County, chemistry professor William LaCourse has seen his share of students of color with a lot of potential lose interest in science fields when they struggle in a course.

A student comes in from high school with good grades, takes a chemistry or a math course and gets a C. But on the other hand, he takes a sociology or English course and gets an A. Which one do they think they’re better suited for?” said LaCourse, dean of the College of Natural and Mathematical Sciences at UMBC. “We can try to get to them before that C, bring them in over the summer, give them prep course, get them good advising.”

To that end, LaCourse applied for and won an $18 million grant from the National Institutes of Health to increase diversity in biomedical research at UMBC. The program, which started this year, provides extra academic support to high-potential students who are at risk of not completing their STEM degrees.

For at least the last decade, there has been a national focus on steering more students, especially minorities, into STEM majors that play a critical role in the global economy. The nation’s 105 historically black schools have had remarkable success in producing graduates in engineering, science and mathematics, despite limited endowments and institutional resources. For instance, a third of all African American students who earn bachelors degrees in math and statistics attend HBCU. Yet with just 3 percent of the college population, historically black schools can only achieve so much.

Nicole Norfles, of the Council for Opportunity in Education, said that for many minority students, it’s about exposure to these fields and the ability to academically succeed in them.

Many of these students may be coming from high schools without Advanced Placement programs or quality math and science courses, environments that may not encourage them to pursue STEM degrees,” Norfles said.

Although the true worth of a college degree is greater than its economic value, securing a well-paid job has become critical in the age of five-figure student debt. Nearly 80 percent of African Americans borrow to pay for college and take on debt loads that are 15 percent higher than the average student. That kind of financial burden could be difficult to overcome with a low salary.

The study arrives as the Obama administration has revised its College Scorecard Web site to include comprehensive data on how much students earn after leaving school. While the scorecard provides salary estimates by individual college, there is no program level data, which Allison said could be used to better inform policy.

...

So for my money, I’d say major choice exacerbates the problem.

[thisismyusername]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know that other motherfuckers here complained about all this shit, right?  Other people.

[close]

Yeah, but I've kinda come around on Shemale. At least It ran Cindi off once and for all.

Are you saying that black men might be doing so poorly because they aren’t choosing the right major?

Wow, you really do have a tendency to ignore what's said:

The issue with these studies is that they never delineate their methodology in the research itself.  They rarely are explicit with education background: For example, I went to a selective top 30 school but got a worthless degree and had a shitty job after college.  It wasn't until I went back for more training and got more skills that things improved.  A friend of mine went to a high-acceptance rate state school for engineering and did much better than me.  I'd say his education background was (and still is) much better than mine and he had better qualifications, but a lot of these studies just look at school ranking or GPA without regard to major, etc.   Blacks are over-represented among the low paying college majors and under-represented in STEM: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/african-americans-over-represented-among-low-paying-college-majors.  If you don't show that you're controlling for the most important variables that matter in income, what's the point?

AKA: They don't do the Scientific Method/They don't describe how they came to those conclusions concretely. They are entirely subjective because these studies don't focus on specific bits. So you should take a gigantic grain of salt on education.

In other words: Maybe the degree choice by black men is the problem. Maybe it's racism (as you seem to think) Maybe it's something else. These results aren't conclusive proof of anything other than biases and "gotcha"s.

[Assimilate]

Cream, honest question:

As hard as it is for everyone out there right now in today's economy why do you think anyone should give a fuck? Seriously, why do you feel the absolute need to submit people all over the internet to your bullshit whining?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Getting ready to be called a racist 

[close]

[Propagandhim]

Trying to read more about the Milwaukee criminal record study -- can't find the research paper just yet, just articles giving a cursory run through of it without mentioning the numbers.  if you know the sample size, let me know.  The results sound pretty damning, but I want to make sure it's not statistical noise (from a difference of like 3 or 4 applicants) than a largescale thing.  In that case, that would be fucked.


Edit: found it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3807133/  Yep, 700 tests at p < .01.  You're right, there is racial bias in this case.  Thanks for showing me this.

Thank you, sincerely, for engaging.

I found this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/09/16/racial-disparities-in-college-major-selection-exacerbates-earnings-gap-3/?utm_term=.97a875b9dcb6

There is no singular reason for the racial disparities within majors, but centuries of racial discrimination, uneven budgetary support for K-12 education and poor academic advising and student support contribute to the problem, said Tom Allison, deputy director of policy and research at Young Invincibles, and one of the authors of the study.

At the University of Maryland Baltimore County, chemistry professor William LaCourse has seen his share of students of color with a lot of potential lose interest in science fields when they struggle in a course.

A student comes in from high school with good grades, takes a chemistry or a math course and gets a C. But on the other hand, he takes a sociology or English course and gets an A. Which one do they think they’re better suited for?” said LaCourse, dean of the College of Natural and Mathematical Sciences at UMBC. “We can try to get to them before that C, bring them in over the summer, give them prep course, get them good advising.”

To that end, LaCourse applied for and won an $18 million grant from the National Institutes of Health to increase diversity in biomedical research at UMBC. The program, which started this year, provides extra academic support to high-potential students who are at risk of not completing their STEM degrees.

For at least the last decade, there has been a national focus on steering more students, especially minorities, into STEM majors that play a critical role in the global economy. The nation’s 105 historically black schools have had remarkable success in producing graduates in engineering, science and mathematics, despite limited endowments and institutional resources. For instance, a third of all African American students who earn bachelors degrees in math and statistics attend HBCU. Yet with just 3 percent of the college population, historically black schools can only achieve so much.

Nicole Norfles, of the Council for Opportunity in Education, said that for many minority students, it’s about exposure to these fields and the ability to academically succeed in them.

Many of these students may be coming from high schools without Advanced Placement programs or quality math and science courses, environments that may not encourage them to pursue STEM degrees,” Norfles said.

Although the true worth of a college degree is greater than its economic value, securing a well-paid job has become critical in the age of five-figure student debt. Nearly 80 percent of African Americans borrow to pay for college and take on debt loads that are 15 percent higher than the average student. That kind of financial burden could be difficult to overcome with a low salary.

The study arrives as the Obama administration has revised its College Scorecard Web site to include comprehensive data on how much students earn after leaving school. While the scorecard provides salary estimates by individual college, there is no program level data, which Allison said could be used to better inform policy.

...

So for my money, I’d say major choice exacerbates the problem.

Yes, but the good news is that this identifies a path to improving.  Attacking racism is a much more elusive and difficult project than improving graduation rates of competitive degrees.There have been many developing countries that have, maybe to a fault, created initiatives to increase STEM graduation rates that have shown tangible differences in investment and their emerging market score (which is not an easy thing to do, given a variable like globalization brain-drain).  And it's a swipe to the racist canard that blacks just aren't endowed with the same talent and "can't do it" like other races -- we haven't even begun to help them in that capacity.  And they do need help -- that's not a white supremacist talking, it's a sincere belief that black people are being short-changed by defeatist talk and are short-changing themselves.  I know you don't agree, but I really think there is a downside to the narrative of white supremacy because it dissuades the focus away from bottom-up solutions for top-down ones.       You're right, there maybe racism and racial bias -- but it isn't hopeless.  We can improve the graduation rates in higher-paying degrees, and still acknowledge that more work needs to be done with the way we bias against black people - but it's not as dire as Resetera makes it out to be.  It just isn't.

[samfish]

Did you guys know that if you take a dead fatty to the crematorium to be cremated, they usually have to chop their bodies up into smaller pieces because the burned fat gets everywhere and is too hard to clean up?

[Cream]

Trying to read more about the Milwaukee criminal record study -- can't find the research paper just yet, just articles giving a cursory run through of it without mentioning the numbers.  if you know the sample size, let me know.  The results sound pretty damning, but I want to make sure it's not statistical noise (from a difference of like 3 or 4 applicants) than a largescale thing.  In that case, that would be fucked.


Edit: found it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3807133/  Yep, 700 tests at p < .01.  You're right, there is racial bias in this case.  Thanks for showing me this.

Thank you, sincerely, for engaging.

I found this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/09/16/racial-disparities-in-college-major-selection-exacerbates-earnings-gap-3/?utm_term=.97a875b9dcb6

There is no singular reason for the racial disparities within majors, but centuries of racial discrimination, uneven budgetary support for K-12 education and poor academic advising and student support contribute to the problem, said Tom Allison, deputy director of policy and research at Young Invincibles, and one of the authors of the study.

At the University of Maryland Baltimore County, chemistry professor William LaCourse has seen his share of students of color with a lot of potential lose interest in science fields when they struggle in a course.

A student comes in from high school with good grades, takes a chemistry or a math course and gets a C. But on the other hand, he takes a sociology or English course and gets an A. Which one do they think they’re better suited for?” said LaCourse, dean of the College of Natural and Mathematical Sciences at UMBC. “We can try to get to them before that C, bring them in over the summer, give them prep course, get them good advising.”

To that end, LaCourse applied for and won an $18 million grant from the National Institutes of Health to increase diversity in biomedical research at UMBC. The program, which started this year, provides extra academic support to high-potential students who are at risk of not completing their STEM degrees.

For at least the last decade, there has been a national focus on steering more students, especially minorities, into STEM majors that play a critical role in the global economy. The nation’s 105 historically black schools have had remarkable success in producing graduates in engineering, science and mathematics, despite limited endowments and institutional resources. For instance, a third of all African American students who earn bachelors degrees in math and statistics attend HBCU. Yet with just 3 percent of the college population, historically black schools can only achieve so much.

Nicole Norfles, of the Council for Opportunity in Education, said that for many minority students, it’s about exposure to these fields and the ability to academically succeed in them.

Many of these students may be coming from high schools without Advanced Placement programs or quality math and science courses, environments that may not encourage them to pursue STEM degrees,” Norfles said.

Although the true worth of a college degree is greater than its economic value, securing a well-paid job has become critical in the age of five-figure student debt. Nearly 80 percent of African Americans borrow to pay for college and take on debt loads that are 15 percent higher than the average student. That kind of financial burden could be difficult to overcome with a low salary.

The study arrives as the Obama administration has revised its College Scorecard Web site to include comprehensive data on how much students earn after leaving school. While the scorecard provides salary estimates by individual college, there is no program level data, which Allison said could be used to better inform policy.

...

So for my money, I’d say major choice exacerbates the problem.

Yes, but the good news is that this identifies a path to improving.  Attacking racism is a much more elusive and difficult project than improving graduation rates of competitive degrees.There have been many developing countries that have, maybe to a fault, created initiatives to increase STEM graduation rates that have shown tangible differences in investment and their emerging market score (which is not an easy thing to do, given a variable like globalization brain-drain).  And it's a swipe to the racist canard that blacks just aren't endowed with the same talent and "can't do it" like other races -- we haven't even begun to help them in that capacity.  And they do need help -- that's not a white supremacist talking, it's a sincere belief that black people are being short-changed by defeatist talk and are short-changing themselves.  I know you don't agree, but I really think there is a downside to the narrative of white supremacy because it dissuades the focus away from bottom-up issues for top-down ones.     You're right, there is racism and racial bias -- but it isn't hopeless.  We can improve the graduation rates in higher-paying degrees, and still acknowledge that more work needs to be done with the way we bias against black people - but it's not as dire as Resetera makes it out to be.  It just isn't.

Okay, I hear you.

But the problem, I feel, is that people aren’t devoting attention to solving those tangible problems BECAUSE of the bias. You’re saying that if black people stopped “short changing themselves”, then things might get better. Ok, but how can black boys be expected to rise when they aren’t given any support? The cities flooded with crime, drugs, overly arrested, incarcerated and shot, no money given to their schools... not to mention a lack of representation, seeing people like themselves having those careers in media. To a lot of these boys, the only way they see out is rapping or playing a sport. I don’t know where these problems can come from besides racial bias.

What I’m saying is how do you even begin to enact so many tangible solutions with so much already stacked against the people in these communities? It’s not like these problems and their solutions are secrets right? At the end of the day, regardless of minutae, the solution is simply “a lot more care, attention and money put into black communities”. Yet it’s not happening. Why?

[Propagandhim]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know that other motherfuckers here complained about all this shit, right?  Other people.

[close]

Yeah, but I've kinda come around on Shemale. At least It ran Cindi off once and for all.

Are you saying that black men might be doing so poorly because they aren’t choosing the right major?

Wow, you really do have a tendency to ignore what's said:

The issue with these studies is that they never delineate their methodology in the research itself.  They rarely are explicit with education background: For example, I went to a selective top 30 school but got a worthless degree and had a shitty job after college.  It wasn't until I went back for more training and got more skills that things improved.  A friend of mine went to a high-acceptance rate state school for engineering and did much better than me.  I'd say his education background was (and still is) much better than mine and he had better qualifications, but a lot of these studies just look at school ranking or GPA without regard to major, etc.   Blacks are over-represented among the low paying college majors and under-represented in STEM: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/african-americans-over-represented-among-low-paying-college-majors.  If you don't show that you're controlling for the most important variables that matter in income, what's the point?

AKA: They don't do the Scientific Method/They don't describe how they came to those conclusions concretely. They are entirely subjective because these studies don't focus on specific bits. So you should take a gigantic grain of salt on education.

In other words: Maybe the degree choice by black men is the problem. Maybe it's racism (as you seem to think) Maybe it's something else. These results aren't conclusive proof of anything other than biases and "gotcha"s.

Also, why do we just assume that an associate's degree is of lesser value than a bachelor's degree?  I can think of 6 or 7 associate's degrees off the top of my head that pay more than 6 or 7 bachelor's degrees.   In a population of people that study STEM at 1/8th the rate as another population, is it that unlikely that the former population is gravitating towards the less-valuable degrees.  This doesn't discount racial biases, but we *know* the problems involve college major: we should focus on improving that instead of focusing on the white supremacist ghost that never seems to stop haunting America.   I know, I would be lambasted for saying "stop focusing on white supremacy" because it sounds like a privileged, insensitive thing, but when you have a limited amount of resources and time, you need to prioritize.

[etiolate]

You need achievable goals.

It's difficult to measure hiring preference because all studies assume those that hire make right/good choices by default and group X is the one exception. I believe that hiring practices are a bit random, full of superstitions and not really held up to much of a standard. Hiring and upwards movement has bias within it, which I imagine some racial bias exists, but I am not sure how much.

[Cream]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know that other motherfuckers here complained about all this shit, right?  Other people.

[close]

Yeah, but I've kinda come around on Shemale. At least It ran Cindi off once and for all.

Are you saying that black men might be doing so poorly because they aren’t choosing the right major?

Wow, you really do have a tendency to ignore what's said:

The issue with these studies is that they never delineate their methodology in the research itself.  They rarely are explicit with education background: For example, I went to a selective top 30 school but got a worthless degree and had a shitty job after college.  It wasn't until I went back for more training and got more skills that things improved.  A friend of mine went to a high-acceptance rate state school for engineering and did much better than me.  I'd say his education background was (and still is) much better than mine and he had better qualifications, but a lot of these studies just look at school ranking or GPA without regard to major, etc.   Blacks are over-represented among the low paying college majors and under-represented in STEM: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/african-americans-over-represented-among-low-paying-college-majors.  If you don't show that you're controlling for the most important variables that matter in income, what's the point?

AKA: They don't do the Scientific Method/They don't describe how they came to those conclusions concretely. They are entirely subjective because these studies don't focus on specific bits. So you should take a gigantic grain of salt on education.

In other words: Maybe the degree choice by black men is the problem. Maybe it's racism (as you seem to think) Maybe it's something else. These results aren't conclusive proof of anything other than biases and "gotcha"s.

Also, why do we just assume that an associate's degree is of lesser value than a bachelor's degree?  I can think of 6 or 7 associate's degrees off the top of my head that pay more than 6 or 7 bachelor's degrees.   In a population of people that study STEM at 1/8th the rate as another population, is it that unlikely that the former population is gravitating towards the less-valuable degrees.  This doesn't discount racial biases, but we *know* the problems involve college major: we should focus on improving that instead of focusing on the white supremacist ghost that never seems to stop haunting America.   I know, I would be lambasted for saying "stop focusing on white supremacy" because it sounds like a privileged, insensitive thing, but when you have a limited amount of resources and time, you need to prioritize.

It’s not like every organization dedicated to improving upward mobility for black Americans is doing nothing but screaming “racism!” Right? Even MLK spent a lot of his time focusing on class and education. There are groups pushing for these things. They do have tangible goals!

 But I really do believe that politicians have no reason to devote resources to the black communities when they feel those communities provide nothing but crime and drugs.

 How do you convince people to devote resources to the communities when they have never done it before and don’t want to?

[Cream]

This also ignores things like private prisons, gun sales...

 How do you explain black people getting arrested and jailed for weed offenses four times as often as white people despite the fact that they use the drugs at the same rates, if not racism?

 There are many powerful people in America who are literally incentivized and benefit from the American people believing there is a horrible awful, crime-ridden community.

People who benefit from black people doing WORSE. Why would they give that up?

[Kurt Russell]

So at this point, is this abortion of a thread essentially a less white version of the reeee BCT?

[Cream]

Here is a very long seminal article, A Case For Reperations, by Ta-Nehesi Coates.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

[Kurt Russell]

Cream can you do something useful and ask MazeHaze to register here please?

[Nintex]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects. Seen as subhuman. When we got freedom, the hatred multiplied tenfold. There is a very very deep rooted culture of seeing black men as just animals. Thugs. Emmitt Till, a child, was beaten and murdered because a white girl accussed him of flirting with her. So much has been done to keep them down. Black Wall Street firebombed. The war on drugs. Now that they’ve been effectively kept down, never given a chance, it’s easy for people to just think they are the problem.

No your country started with a genocide on the Indians. Who were mis-labeled as a race because people sucked at reading maps. Get your facts straight.

[Cream]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects. Seen as subhuman. When we got freedom, the hatred multiplied tenfold. There is a very very deep rooted culture of seeing black men as just animals. Thugs. Emmitt Till, a child, was beaten and murdered because a white girl accussed him of flirting with her. So much has been done to keep them down. Black Wall Street firebombed. The war on drugs. Now that they’ve been effectively kept down, never given a chance, it’s easy for people to just think they are the problem.

No your country started with a genocide on the Indians. Who were mis-labeled as a race because people sucked at reading maps. Get your facts straight.

That doesn’t contradict anything I said.

[Nintex]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects. Seen as subhuman. When we got freedom, the hatred multiplied tenfold. There is a very very deep rooted culture of seeing black men as just animals. Thugs. Emmitt Till, a child, was beaten and murdered because a white girl accussed him of flirting with her. So much has been done to keep them down. Black Wall Street firebombed. The war on drugs. Now that they’ve been effectively kept down, never given a chance, it’s easy for people to just think they are the problem.

No your country started with a genocide on the Indians. Who were mis-labeled as a race because people sucked at reading maps. Get your facts straight.

That doesn’t contradict anything I said.

It contradicts your first sentence:

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects.

[samfish]

Because *white* people suck at reading maps. Have you ever had a (white) woman as your navigator in the car? Yeah.

Anyway, the Indians would still be alive if the Wakandans had got to America first.

[Nintex]

Because *white* people suck at reading maps. Have you ever had a (white) woman as your navigator in the car? Yeah.

Anyway, the Indians would still be alive if the Wakandans had got to America first.

Are hispanics white though? It was Columbus who went there first and thought he had landed in India.

Although before him apparently the Vikings reached America too. Why is there no alternative history TV series of VIKING AMERICA. Would be amazing.

Call me Netflix. 

[Propagandhim]

I'll read it, but it's gonna take me awhile because I'm in between things atm.  And I don't know the answer to most of your questions, Cream.  I kept trying to write replies, but ultimately it didn't lead anywhere with any insight.   This isn't easy stuff.

[Cream]

 

Or maybe men overall treat women almost equally shittily? Except we know that’s not true because there is a lot of data o could easily pull that shows black women doing worse than white women.

But it’s very true that certain systemic forms of racism hit black men harder than black women, like being jailed more, shot more, etc.

You quoted this: "... Conditional on parent income, the black-white income gap is driven entirely by large differences in wages and employment rates between black and white men; there are no such differences between black and white women."   "The disparities that remain also can’t be explained by differences in cognitive ability, an argument made by people who cite racial gaps in test scores that appear for both black boys and girls. If such inherent differences existed by race, “you’ve got to explain to me why these putative ability differences aren’t handicapping women,” said David Grusky, a Stanford sociologist who has reviewed the research." 

And then said something about the usual suspects ignoring this.  So I didn't ignore it and wanted clarification -- and then upon clarification, you said the complete opposite thing you quoted.

I just did.  There are several key areas of systemic racism that hit  Black man much harder than black women. Black womenswear are handicapped in other areas, and I think they persevere.

These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm genuinely curious:   From your perspective, what is it about black men that white people hate?  What is it that makes them treat this 6% of the population so poorly, that they build systems and culture their institutions to specifically focus on them.  Insofar as black issues are so statistically exceptional - low test scores, homicide rates, and wage differences are standard deviations apart from white and other non-white groups, why have whites devised a society that victimizes them uniquely apart from the rest of the 94% of the population?

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects. Seen as subhuman. When we got freedom, the hatred multiplied tenfold. There is a very very deep rooted culture of seeing black men as just animals. Thugs. Emmitt Till, a child, was beaten and murdered because a white girl accussed him of flirting with her. So much has been done to keep them down. Black Wall Street firebombed. The war on drugs. Now that they’ve been effectively kept down, never given a chance, it’s easy for people to just think they are the problem.

No your country started with a genocide on the Indians. Who were mis-labeled as a race because people sucked at reading maps. Get your facts straight.

That doesn’t contradict anything I said.

It contradicts your first sentence:

This country started with centuries of black people being treated as literal objects.

No it doesn’t. The prolonged genocide of Indiginous People, and the prolonged enslavement of black Americans were both happening in the early, and most formative, years of America’s life. For a good deal of it, at the same time. There were black slaves that killed Native Americans, and Native Americans that had slaves.