Thread of Feminism and Bumble Destroying Civilization

[Tasty]

Aaaaaaand hidden. 👋🏻

[thisismyusername]

OH NO YOU FUCKING DON'T. You don't get to post bullshit like this and not back it up. [Citation Needed], in other words.

  Found this on esquire which links to this study here -> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144516304624

They found that in instances where the man was less attractive he was likely to compensate with acts of kindness like presents, sexual favours or extra housework. They saw a pattern, in that this made women happier and feel more appreciated, therefore strengthening the relationship.

You link the study but not the actual article you're linking from. This study is talking about dieting habits.

Most relationships (and this has been shown to be true multiple times, maybe still not hardcore fact, but there has been results showing) are successful when the female is slightly more attractive than the male. Relationships that fall on the flip side tend to be problematic.

The relationship between women’s objective physical attractiveness and their dieting motivations and behaviors may depend upon their social environment—specifically, their romantic partners’ attractiveness—such that less attractive women with more attractive partners may be particularly motivated to diet.

This might be your "problematic" point, but I'm not seeing where this (fuck paying for the actual article) summary is going with your "more attractive women than the men have longer lasting relationships than men that are more attractive than the women." It's talking dieting. Show me that Esquire article you got this from.

I'll have to disagree here with you from the sheer fact that we're seeing movements like 'incels' pop up now.

InCels are popping up because 1. no job market or hopeless despair. The 2008 recession massively screwed with the younger generations adult lives, and a lot of the younger men either don't bother trying to get a job (why should I? My gap in employment is too big) and live at home with their parents ("so why should I move out? They aren't kicking me out.") Which feeds the InCel movement. ("Women should grovel at my feet because I'm awesome and a male!")

Coming from a gay man with your own cross sectional issues in the LGBTQ community i really don't give a fuck what you think. Feminism, and the entirety of this culture is toxic and you will eat your own tails.

Feminism that is militant is a problem: I agree. Feminism itself? Isn't the problem. And the fact that you can't separate the two shows how fucked heterosexual men are.

It's a problem for both females and males, but for the first time in history i think it's a bigger problem for males than females.

 Of course it's not social media alone.

Ok, so we both agree it's not social media. But where we disagree is where the "InCel" movement pops-up. You think it's squarely on the womens shoulders. When I disagree with that. Women themselves are not the problem and the fact that you think "independent women" are a problem because "they get thrown away by men going for younger women" (oh hey, proving my point here...) " and then wallow in despair." Speaks volumes about why the InCel movement is happening.

[benjipwns]

4. Feminism is toxic. Feminism+social media is downright a revolt. I'm sorry but i agree with it 100 percent.

social media has probably hindered feminism, of both the type we all agree on and the type that you think is bad and the type that even most here will agree is bad, rather than strengthening it

i mean, even on forums as woke as GAF/ERA and despite the threat of a ban looming, you still have people trying to split hairs about what is or isn't feminism...and a lot of that is driven by what they imagine as a stereotypical "feminist"

the democratization and leveling of the internet allows non-elite voices to challenge or respond to or send death threats to even the most elite and extreme voices of "feminism" in a way that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago, the fact that TumblrInAction can be something so large and so known that its drama finds its way into more mainstream outlets is both a strong counterargument to your fears and something i think even many opponents of that worldview can appreciate as opening a broader access to the debate, no longer do people have to rely on an elite like Phyllis Schlafly to present their counterargument against what they view as negatives or extremes of the feminist movement writ large, they can publish their own incoherent bitching about it even if it effectively falls into a void

Daddy P is an example of this even though he's technically already an elite, minus 25% for being Canadian, he was essentially a nobody and now he's a media celebrity and we get his views on fucking everything, and it mainly stems from his conservative reactionary positioning against a "social studies" position he felt was being adopted as law, and in certain circles even people as non-elite as Dave Rubin, Milo*, Sargon and NotOurBoogieTheNaziOne are treated as if they are cultural and social critics of some esteem

*depending on what stories of his you buy, he may or may not have a traditionally elite background

[seagrams hotsauce]

this whole steroids conversation is silly since roid rage is almost an entirely anecdotal phenomenon

[benjipwns]

yeah, i was going to say i thought everyone at this point had agreed the steroid use was a symptom not a cause

[thisismyusername]

You know what, Assy? This isn't worth my time anymore. I'm going to drop this. But it's good to know that you're part of the InCel movement.

(I still want that Esquire link)

[Assimilate]

From the site: Is Roid Rage Real? A Steroid User Tried To Steal My Sandwich

He can be pretty funny.

You link the study but not the actual article you're linking from. This study is talking about dieting habits.

My bad i thought i did https://www.esquire.com/uk/life/news/a17209/women-happier-uglier-men/

InCels are popping up because 1. no job market or hopeless despair. The 2008 recession massively screwed with the younger generations adult lives, and a lot of the younger men either don't bother trying to get a job (why should I? My gap in employment is too big) and live at home with their parents ("so why should I move out? They aren't kicking me out.") Which feeds the InCel movement. ("Women should grovel at my feet because I'm awesome and a male!")

First, i don't think they think they're awesome. Second, isn't that a point to be sympathetic? That's a lot of people. Add in social media, instagram, the fake image of success and body physique and you have a recipe for disaster. And we're seeing it with depression levels, suicide levels rising.

Ok, so we both agree it's not social media. But where we disagree is where the "InCel" movement pops-up. You think it's squarely on the womens shoulders. When I disagree with that. Women themselves are not the problem and the fact that you think "independent women" are a problem because "they get thrown away by men going for younger women" (oh hey, proving my point here...) " and then wallow in despair." Speaks volumes about why the InCel movement is happening.

No i don't think that. It's definitely a combination but since i was in the relationship thread and i posted that directed at Atra that's why we're talking about it.

4. Feminism is toxic. Feminism+social media is downright a revolt. I'm sorry but i agree with it 100 percent.

social media has probably hindered feminism, of both the type we all agree on and the type that you think is bad and the type that even most here will agree is bad, rather than strengthening it

i mean, even on forums as woke as GAF/ERA and despite the threat of a ban looming, you still have people trying to split hairs about what is or isn't feminism...and a lot of that is driven by what they imagine as a stereotypical "feminist"

the democratization and leveling of the internet allows non-elite voices to challenge or respond to or send death threats to even the most elite and extreme voices of "feminism" in a way that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago, the fact that TumblrInAction can be something so large and so known that its drama finds its way into more mainstream outlets is both a strong counterargument to your fears and something i think even many opponents of that worldview can appreciate as opening a broader access to the debate, no longer do people have to rely on an elite like Phyllis Schlafly to present their counterargument against what they view as negatives or extremes of the feminist movement writ large, they can publish their own incoherent bitching about it even if it effectively falls into a void

Daddy P is an example of this even though he's technically already an elite, minus 25% for being Canadian, he was essentially a nobody and now he's a media celebrity and we get his views on fucking everything, and it mainly stems from his conservative reactionary positioning against a "social studies" position he felt was being adopted as law, and in certain circles even people as non-elite as Dave Rubin, Milo*, Sargon and NotOurBoogieTheNaziOne are treated as if they are cultural and social critics of some esteem

*depending on what stories of his you buy, he may or may not have a traditionally elite background

All valid points but i see the feminist movement succeeding in some large areas.

Just recently F1 removed Grid Girls, FIFA is now talking about not showing pretty girls cheering for their country on camera, and there is nothing shaming 'men' all over tv.

Yeah, i get it, don't watch tv, i don't, don't be influenced by pop culture (i definitely do not while most of you do) but the narrative is prevalent all over mainstream media.

[Mandark]

Yeah, very hard to find portrayals of strong, independent men these days.

Representation matters!

[BisMarckie]

(i definitely do not while most of you do)

Daddy P is pop culture at this point.

[Assimilate]

Yeah, very hard to find portrayals of strong, independent men these days.

Representation matters!

We were talking about the feminist message and manipulation but ok?

Too much low effort going on. I"m going to bed

[seagrams hotsauce]

mandark putting dat ass to bed

[BisMarckie]

There's nothing easier than pulling girls away from flimsy boys. Seriously, nothing is easier.

Seems to be hard for you though, or you wouldn't rant about feminism and entitled women

[Assimilate]

There's nothing easier than pulling girls away from flimsy boys. Seriously, nothing is easier.

Seems to be hard for you though, or you wouldn't rant about feminism and entitled women

Oh i refuse to date an american girl. so i don't run into these problems.

i fight the good fight online for my fellowman.

[CatsCatsCats]

Missing out on fine American pussy, what a giant dad

[benjipwns]

All valid points but i see the feminist movement succeeding in some large areas.

Just recently F1 removed Grid Girls, FIFA is now talking about not showing pretty girls cheering for their country on camera, and there is nothing shaming 'men' all over tv.

This stood out to me because of the examples you used. I think this is a very strong personal bias from your particular circumstance that you're foisting onto the United States and "American women" perhaps too much.

F1 and FIFA are increasingly popular in the U.S. but their governing bodies, their majority "elite" fanbases, etc. are all Yuropean. These aren't American cultural reactions.

NASCAR and the NFL would be more ideal because of their strongly limited to America popularity, and both have shown strong resistance to social and cultural movements of the "social studies" variety in recent years at the top levels, etc. even as they increasingly gain and pursue female audiences though symbolism like wearing pink or whatever. Players taking a knee was practically a fucking national crisis. And the owners responded by trying to stop it despite its entirely benign nature. And they can more or less corral the media into their position because of the broadcasting agreement strangleholds.

Regarding TV, at least in the sitcom world, the dumb, often less attractive and fat husband with the smart, sassy and sexy/attractive wife has been a trope for decades. Even a show with as deranged morals as Always Sunny presents Sweet Dee as the only one having anything even remotely approaching normal relationships or recognition of other people as more than tools. (Thankfully, her as the "voice of reason" above it all was abandoned so that they could all descend into human garbage together. She still remains the only one of the gang to ever say something is wrong, even if usually it's to quickly to assert her own deranged vision more to her advantage/liking.) Yet it's hard to say many of these shows are actually pushing a feminist or anti-male point of view deliberately or with the intent of massaging society, rather they're actually reflecting a society that simply won't accept fee-males in those roles as easily. Elaine on Seinfeld similarly to Sweet Dee had to remain just a hair above the guys in most things. In some of the sitcoms where they stick to this trope but then start to subvert it by showing the wife is almost as bad, she almost always remains better than the husband when it comes down to it. For real subversion of the trope you have to go back to something like I Love Lucy, and Ball literally owned that show and its sequels that maintained her in that role. And her character was still the "star" of them, much like the men/husband usually are in the more modern sitcom period.

[Oblivion]

Ahem, as mentioned already, one could use this as an example of American feminism running amok:

https://twitter.com/Daddy_Warpig/status/1018331812857180160

[Assimilate]

All valid points but i see the feminist movement succeeding in some large areas.

Just recently F1 removed Grid Girls, FIFA is now talking about not showing pretty girls cheering for their country on camera, and there is nothing shaming 'men' all over tv.

This stood out to me because of the examples you used. I think this is a very strong personal bias from your particular circumstance that you're foisting onto the United States and "American women" perhaps too much.

F1 and FIFA are increasingly popular in the U.S. but their governing bodies, their majority "elite" fanbases, etc. are all Yuropean. These aren't American cultural reactions.

NASCAR and the NFL would be more ideal because of their strongly limited to America popularity, and both have shown strong resistance to social and cultural movements of the "social studies" variety in recent years at the top levels, etc. even as they increasingly gain and pursue female audiences though symbolism like wearing pink or whatever. Players taking a knee was practically a fucking national crisis. And the owners responded by trying to stop it despite its entirely benign nature. And they can more or less corral the media into their position because of the broadcasting agreement strangleholds.

Regarding TV, at least in the sitcom world, the dumb, often less attractive and fat husband with the smart, sassy and sexy/attractive wife has been a trope for decades. Even a show with as deranged morals as Always Sunny presents Sweet Dee as the only one having anything even remotely approaching normal relationships or recognition of other people as more than tools. (Thankfully, her as the "voice of reason" above it all was abandoned so that they could all descend into human garbage together. She still remains the only one of the gang to ever say something is wrong, even if usually it's to quickly to assert her own deranged vision more to her advantage/liking.) Yet it's hard to say many of these shows are actually pushing a feminist or anti-male point of view deliberately or with the intent of massaging society, rather they're actually reflecting a society that simply won't accept fee-males in those roles as easily. Elaine on Seinfeld similarly to Sweet Dee had to remain just a hair above the guys in most things. In some of the sitcoms where they stick to this trope but then start to subvert it by showing the wife is almost as bad, she almost always remains better than the husband when it comes down to it. For real subversion of the trope you have to go back to something like I Love Lucy, and Ball literally owned that show and its sequels that maintained her in that role. And her character was still the "star" of them, much like the men/husband usually are in the more modern sitcom period.

Feminism is a thing in the west in general, that's why we're seeing it even in FIFA and F1.

Nascar is so far right that it's a bad example. But yeah the NFL has tried a lot to appease feminism and females in general. The implosion over the kneeling thing is a whole other topic.

I didn't read the last part because i'm too tired. Anyways, yeah it can be a personal bias but i've pointed that out already, it's part of my lived experience. If i read something and can relate to then i tend to feel it could be legitimate.

I'm not the only one that has made such observations. I've had work acquaintances come from the states and notice the difference themselves after staying around here for a few months. So i know there's truth there.

[Mandark]

Re: feminism in pop culture, a simple thing to do would be just apply the good old Bechdel Test to stuff, and then apply a gender-swapped version.

[benjipwns]

I'm not sure the kneeling is really too much of a different topic from the standpoint of evaluating "social studies" pressure on the larger media and cultural environment. Sure, in theory it's a "smaller minority" but it definitely got outsized play beyond the "direct" minority. Transgender bathrooms. Everything gays in general. These all blow up beyond the size of the group directly affected.

All women certainly don't subscribe to the "crazy feminism" variety, let alone larger campaigns of specific subsets.

When your dating examples are all things that were common before and you're simply arguing an unmeasurable increase in this, I don't think we can extend it to social media. And when your media examples are still distinctly Yuropean in comparison to America, I'm not sure they're good examples to draw an American picture, let alone use as supporting an argument of increased feminism run amuck in the States to where women are simply out of control dominating men.

My longer paragraph was basically just looking at examples of sitcoms to pick a random TV genre and noting that they haven't changed much in decades in their weighting of men characters and female characters, and that real "feminist subversion" of the traditional popular tropes dates back to I Love Lucy.

Now you may in fact be correct about all this, but I'm mainly taking issue with your limited perspective being applied broadly. Especially when most of us still here in America are disagreeing with the nature of the feminazi beast. Maybe because we're all beaky lieberals, but maybe not.

[benjipwns]

Re: feminism in pop culture, a simple thing to do would be just apply the good old Bechdel Test to stuff, and then apply a gender-swapped version.

I'd prefer a test created by someone with actual qualifications, like for one, being a male.

[Assimilate]

I'm not sure the kneeling is really too much of a different topic from the standpoint of evaluating "social studies" pressure on the larger media and cultural environment. Sure, in theory it's a "smaller minority" but it definitely got outsized play beyond the "direct" minority. Transgender bathrooms. Everything gays in general. These all blow up beyond the size of the group directly affected.

All women certainly don't subscribe to the "crazy feminism" variety, let alone larger campaigns of specific subsets.

When your dating examples are all things that were common before and you're simply arguing an unmeasurable increase in this, I don't think we can extend it to social media. And when your media examples are still distinctly Yuropean in comparison to America, I'm not sure they're good examples to draw an American picture, let alone use as supporting an argument of increased feminism run amuck in the States to where women are simply out of control dominating men.

My longer paragraph was basically just looking at examples of sitcoms to pick a random TV genre and noting that they haven't changed much in decades in their weighting of men characters and female characters, and that real "feminist subversion" of the traditional popular tropes dates back to I Love Lucy.

Now you may in fact be correct about all this, but I'm mainly taking issue with your limited perspective being applied broadly. Especially when most of us still here in America are disagreeing with the nature of the feminazi beast. Maybe because we're all beaky lieberals, but maybe not.

Ok, even if the kneeling is the same, what does that say? It says there is a narrative here being played out and magnified which has an effect on a broader general public. It creates divides.

All women don't subscribe to feminist ideals, sure, but a lot of younger females do. I see it all the time. It was already bad amongst some groups of girls i knew in college, i cannot even imagine what it may be like now, especially in more liberal states. And even if most females aren't normally feminists, they may not even know what that is, you see the movement happening across mainstream media, and on college campuses and work environments. I'd be shocked if most women today do not know what it is.

I'm a little confused on what you are in fact arguing here. You can't extend it to social media? Extend what? Does social media have to actually create a problem never before seen? for it to be responsible? Like a new human emotion or something?  Social media has fed on certain human psychological traits that are easy to manipulate. And because it is able to reach more people since almost everyone, especially younger generations are all online, a problem that may have been observable in a few thousand people are now observable in the millions.

Can't we see this with simple game addiction? My mother never played games before. She never gambled either (because she's frugal and a business woman she'd never gamble her money) but those traits are still easily manipulated in a human being and so she can be susceptible to light candy crush addiction. Are you going to tell me smart phones  aren't responsible for this because there were people that were addicted to games and gambling before the smart phone?

I'm not applying it limitedly. I have more examples, i just chose two quick ones in Fifa and F1.

[Mandark]

Feminism Run Amok is a pretty classic case of people deliberately seeking out shit that bothers them then convincing themselves it's some huge phenomenon that's seriously damaging society.

[Transhuman]

As much as I agree Mandark, you are ruining Assimilate's flow, and I want hear the rest of his manifesto.

[benjipwns]

I guess the main thing I'm looking for, Ass, is some kind of way to measure this supposed Feminist Wave in America beyond our anecdotes about dating. Your FIFA and F1 examples are a good start, but like I said I find them more Yuropean in their structure at the top levels to be considered when evaluating American trends specifically. I felt broadening it to social studies as a whole might actually help your point about a culture change in general, especially since America loves it some race, and Daddy P and others love them some trans or gays.

As noted in the first wank dad thread, this has started to recede on college campuses. I'm not sure I see it in the mainstream media, and we've seen recently that work environments have been doing a lot of symbolic performances while little actual action which probably needs to quite minimal in comparison especially in terms of a cultural change against the majority of the population.

[warcock]

There is no room for incel bullshit. It is an extremely poor response to a usually bad series of experiences. In my experience people can be extremely ruthless and inconsiderate while online dating. I have had a girl that would not stop texting me for days until she learned that i was infact middle eastern and not white and abruptly stopped texting me. Another one was extremely enthusiastic  for dsys until the second we met. Regardless of sample size it is understandable that a series of degrading experiences results in bitterness for either sex. "Not all girls " will simply not resonate well with a person who has had a good experience ratio of 1 per 25. It is also true that in some instances whether it be physical apperance, mental illness, disability etc... reframing the problem and self improvement may not lead to success. The truth of the matter is that the game feels like bullshit to some of us and under the pressure of it being an essential normative lifegoal , a combative irrational recoil is predictable. I feel like men that want to go their own way, that simply rather not play the game shouldnt be shamed unless they exhibit the sexist behaviors that MGTOWs are known for.  Yeah the game sucks for some of us, you can keep trudging on and i will encourage you but hey i get it if you want out and want to find other avenues of satisfaction in life.  I mean i am not pointing fingers, the relationship thread had been largely supportive.

[Huff]

Dating apps just made meeting both more accessible than ever while harder at the same time. For both sexes

Everyone thinks they are a 10 and only want 10s.

Not tall, attractive, rich, or successful? Dating gunna suck for you no matter how you meet people

[hungrynoob]

You guys seriously need another trashpile thread? I already hid the disgusting cesspit that was the Other Forum thread. Ya'll niccas hate gurlz so much you need your own thread?

who said anything about hating girls?

this is about the system that is currently in place and what it does to peoples psychology.

Im not 100% sure as to what youre referring to, but peoples psychology has been fucked from everything around them. 

You are all being bred to be slaves.

[Flannel Boy]

And think of the message it sends.

"here ladies, you deserve better. you're a princess, the greatest thing on this earth, now you have the power to choose amongst allll these mennnnn"

for pushing 'equality' these bitches sure do love the script being flipped.

Bumble isn't telling women to be choosy, biology has already done that (sperm is cheap, eggs are not). Men find it easier to be attracted to a woman.

Let's not even get to non-physical attractiveness.

Men aren't as choosy, on average, even the most attractive men, so they use a shot-gun approach to contacting women on dating sites.



This leads women to be overwhelmed/annoyed by having hundreds of men contacting them, especially if they're considered the most attractive:



And if a woman doesn't respond to every single guy, she will receive some nasty follow-up messages.

Solution: Bumble?

[kingv]

I think it just kind of shows how dating sites are kind of a rube’s game, in general.

It’s one of those things that seems theoretically great, but you’d probably do better, on average, joining a kickball team or a running club and talking to the chicks that show up.

[Kara]

Sexual calculus? I stuck with differentials, sorry.

[kingv]

Integration is more apropos.

[Nabbis]

Stats aside, there's like 3 billion other women out there. It's not something hard if you play the dating game even a little bit. You can always go to thailand and get a wife or something as a last option anyway. 

[hungrynoob]

Based on very little information but by the sounds of it, whatever the fuck it is yous are discussing has been intentionally created to obfuscate truths. There is a major incongruity between caring about the psychological impact bestowed onto people through their actions and using the context of dating/picking up girls as a framework.

If you were championing psychological freedom, the realisation that even worrying about dating/picking up chicks becomes irrelevant, because you are free.

[Mandark]

Based on very little information but by the sounds of it, whatever the fuck it is yous are discussing has been intentionally created to obfuscate truths.

You're right, the niche bodybuilding blog NattyorNot.com is probably controlled opposition.

Good looking out.

[hungrynoob]

Based on very little information but by the sounds of it, whatever the fuck it is yous are discussing has been intentionally created to obfuscate truths.

You're right, the niche bodybuilding blog NattyorNot.com is probably controlled opposition.

Good looking out.

Why is my reasoning removed from context?

[Human Snorenado]

Based on very little information but by the sounds of it, whatever the fuck it is yous are discussing has been intentionally created to obfuscate truths.

You're right, the niche bodybuilding blog NattyorNot.com is probably controlled opposition.

Good looking out.

Why is my reasoning removed from context?

[agrajag]

Based on very little information but by the sounds of it, whatever the fuck it is yous are discussing has been intentionally created to obfuscate truths. There is a major incongruity between caring about the psychological impact bestowed onto people through their actions and using the context of dating/picking up girls as a framework.

If you were championing psychological freedom, the realisation that even worrying about dating/picking up chicks becomes irrelevant, because you are free.

Did Maria Sharapova give up the p yet?

[Assimilate]

And think of the message it sends.

"here ladies, you deserve better. you're a princess, the greatest thing on this earth, now you have the power to choose amongst allll these mennnnn"

for pushing 'equality' these bitches sure do love the script being flipped.

Bumble isn't telling women to be choosy, biology has already done that (sperm is cheap, eggs are not). Men find it easier to be attracted to a woman.
(Image removed from quote.)
Let's not even get to non-physical attractiveness.

Men aren't as choosy, on average, even the most attractive men, so they use a shot-gun approach to contacting women on dating sites.

(Image removed from quote.)

This leads women to be overwhelmed/annoyed by having hundreds of men contacting them, especially if they're considered the most attractive:

(Image removed from quote.)

And if a woman doesn't respond to every single guy, she will receive some nasty follow-up messages.

Solution: Bumble?

There is no room for incel bullshit. It is an extremely poor response to a usually bad series of experiences. In my experience people can be extremely ruthless and inconsiderate while online dating. I have had a girl that would not stop texting me for days until she learned that i was infact middle eastern and not white and abruptly stopped texting me. Another one was extremely enthusiastic  for dsys until the second we met. Regardless of sample size it is understandable that a series of degrading experiences results in bitterness for either sex. "Not all girls " will simply not resonate well with a person who has had a good experience ratio of 1 per 25. It is also true that in some instances whether it be physical apperance, mental illness, disability etc... reframing the problem and self improvement may not lead to success. The truth of the matter is that the game feels like bullshit to some of us and under the pressure of it being an essential normative lifegoal , a combative irrational recoil is predictable. I feel like men that want to go their own way, that simply rather not play the game shouldnt be shamed unless they exhibit the sexist behaviors that MGTOWs are known for.  Yeah the game sucks for some of us, you can keep trudging on and i will encourage you but hey i get it if you want out and want to find other avenues of satisfaction in life.  I mean i am not pointing fingers, the relationship thread had been largely supportive.

I think some of you are missing the crux of the argument. It's not about individual people, it's about the system . Human psychology didn't change, the system was created around it, to pick out the worst of the worst nature in both human beings.  To some of you boy geniuses out there this may be soooo obvious, but it wasn't obvious to anyone that was around the internet during the very beginning of social media and dating apps. We thought "wow more choices" or "wow i can talk to a woman from across the country" and in the beginning it was like that, it was innocent, exciting, fresh.

Now, it's a manipulation game. A total fucking ruse. It's built this way on purpose. Major app developers know this, some of them are even trying to actively fight against it and change it's ways somehow. If it's even possible to change, i don't know.

Also, this writer writes incredibly satirically, the fact that some of you can't even pick up on that is scary. Like, REE fucking scary.

[Mandark]

I think some of you are missing the crux of the argument. It's not about individual people, it's about the system .

Even if you're looking for macro answers, it's very common to use a representative agent model.

[Steve Contra]

can someone tldr me this thread i'm curious but not that curious and I want to make fun of people too

[shosta]

tldr:

Ya'll niccas hate gurlz so much you need your own thread?

[Assimilate]

can someone tldr me this thread i'm curious but not that curious and I want to make fun of people too

Basically, in the relationship thread i linked two pieces of content from a satirical writer that normally writes about muscle construction and steroid use with other aspects of life such as online dating in relation to Atra's experience with the Tinder app.

And then Bore members went completely  on me.

[Mandark]

Assimilate linked to a couple of posts from a bodybuilding blog in the relationships thread. The gist is that online dating and social media have given women too much power and unreasonably raised their expectations about the sort of men they'll be able to date. Very standard PUA framing of dating as hierarchy/status game, etc.

It basically turned into Assimilate vs. everyone else, and I created this thread so the relationships thread could get back on track and the dogpile could continue over here.

The big mistake is that the dudes on the forum are just too old for that kind of bait. You want people to show up to your pity party, find out where the angsty 20-year-olds are.

[Huff]

And pls direct atra to the angsty 20 yo girls if you find them

[Kara]

To add to Mandark's good summary, there's this weird internal contradiction in the proffered argument that the system has changed and its bad but the system can't correctively change again because reasons. (Probably because acknowledging "things change" undermines the whole Chicken Little routine.) This falls pretty flat to someone like me who can remember a time when spousal rape wasn't a crime in all 50 U.S. states and is currently living in an era with things like #MeToo.

[Steve Contra]

I remember a time when losers were banging any girls they wanted but then apps came around and then girls were like oh cool we don't have to bang neckbeards anymore thank god I'm sick of my vagina smelling like Cheetos it's nice to meet a guy who doesn't wear a fedora it's weird how things change whatever happened to that one show I liked

[Assimilate]

The big mistake is that the dudes on the forum are just too old for that kind of bait. You want people to show up to your pity party, find out where the angsty 20-year-olds are.

To add to Mandark's good summary, there's this weird internal contradiction in the proffered argument that the system has changed and its bad but the system can't correctively change again because reasons. (Probably because acknowledging "things change" undermines the whole Chicken Little routine.) This falls pretty flat to someone like me who can remember a time when spousal rape wasn't a crime in all 50 U.S. states and is currently living in an era with things like #MeToo.

Yeah, only that it was already acknowledged that we aren't talking about before, we are talking about how things are now and the links were in reference to what we were witnessing with Atra in the present, so the old timers experience here on the Bore doesn't mean anything and there was no 'bait' to be taken since we were already witnessing what the links were saying in real time. And it was also pointed out, in both the articles, and by me multiple times, that change can and will happen eventually.

Fact is, a lot of you so called "old timers' which is funny considering most of us are all the same age, don't want to admit you are as trigger happy and incapable of reading context and nuance into anything as most of the juvenile dipshits on REE 

[Mandark]

you seem so unhappy all of the time

[Assimilate]

you seem so unhappy all of the time

Are forums where happy people go?

 

[Kara]

You say you think something will change but spend a nontrivial amount of time arguing about how the thing that will change is currently bad. Is nuance taking words at face value and not contextualizing them with behavior?

This goes for the authors of the pieces you linked as well.

[Nintex]

So this is where you all went.

Don’t think for a second that some woman turned on by your muscles is capable of appreciating or understanding the work required to sculpt a high-end physique. She thinks you got there by playing on the monkey bars while drinking beer with your buddies.

Is the sacrifice worth it? Will the change be positive?

Who knows? Some may become the equivalent of a modern-day Arnold (unlikely) whereas others will remain fragile drama queens hiding behind a shield of muscle while trying to fix everything by upping the dose (likely).

I regret creating Dudebro as much as Al Gore regrets creating the internet at this point. 

[Nabbis]

Why are you guys arguing over social media when cosmo and other magazines did this "feel good, you worth it girl" thing and inflating the readers ego since like forever? It's also been there long before the militant feminists had any time in the spotlight.

What the fuck is this thread even about? Bottom line is though that if you feel that women are putting themselves on a pedestal then the thing that guys would need to do would be to stop acknowledging and accommodating that behavior and the situation would pass. If dudes go with it and shower chicks with attention only to turn into incels then that's pretty much their own grave that they dug up. It's insane to expect people not to take advantage of having more choice in better looking partners.

[Assimilate]

So this is where you all went.

Don’t think for a second that some woman turned on by your muscles is capable of appreciating or understanding the work required to sculpt a high-end physique. She thinks you got there by playing on the monkey bars while drinking beer with your buddies.

Is the sacrifice worth it? Will the change be positive?

Who knows? Some may become the equivalent of a modern-day Arnold (unlikely) whereas others will remain fragile drama queens hiding behind a shield of muscle while trying to fix everything by upping the dose (likely).

I regret creating Dudebro as much as Al Gore regrets creating the internet at this point. 

Yeah i actually find this guy to be pretty good and i like his writing style

Why are you guys arguing over social media when cosmo and other magazines did this "feel good, you worth it girl" thing and inflating the readers ego since like forever? It's also been there long before the militant feminists had any time in the spotlight.

What the fuck is this thread even about? Bottom line is though that if you feel that women are putting themselves on a pedestal then the thing that guys would need to do would be to stop acknowledging and accommodating that behavior and the situation would pass. If dudes go with it and shower chicks with attention only to turn into incels then that's pretty much their own grave that they dug up. It's insane to expect people not to take advantage of having more choice in better looking partners.

You're not wrong..

In reality, the system has created a seemingly nurturing environment for the modern Western woman in order to benefit from the club effect.

The club effect works like this: the owners of discos, bars, restaurants and other establishments for “acquaintances” know very well that men go there for the pussy allegedly waiting for them. If you bring in women, you will bring men eager to buy things too because the male penis has an extremely low IQ.

The same mechanism is integrated in many social manipulations – once the women are infected, the men tailor their behavior and mute their instincts to remain “likable”. If you don’t believe me, try talking about any of this on a date and see how well it goes for you. She will immediately think that you are “creepy” (a favorite word of most females) and a negative/toxic person who doesn’t deserve her precious company.

You are much better off focusing on the latest movies, ponies, cats, dogs, pop music, clothes, mainstream sports, CrossFit and tolerance talk than saying how you really feel about this world.

Dates are auditions. In the past, the women were tested just as much, but today, it seems that men enjoy most of the criticism because women have too many options thanks to the digital realm which devalues men. My interaction with modern women has confirmed that many of them behave like you owe them something whereas their contribution is never questioned.

The purpose of the initial screening is to determine whether you are one of the weirdos. If you show the slightest signs of negativity or a non-mainstream detached worldview, you will lose points unless you have the physical attractiveness to redeem yourself. Male models and actors like Brad Pitt can get away with talking about whatever they want. The average guy cannot.

Naturally, men adapt to the requirements and accept the role designed for them by the system because the pain of being a sexless recluse and socially rejected is substantial and can destroy one’s mind and motivation to continue forward.

He's so spot on it's sickening.

[Mandark]

What the fuck is this thread even about?

I already wrote one summary, c'mon.

[Nabbis]

What the fuck is this thread even about?

I already wrote one summary, c'mon.

But what's it really about? I think that hungrynoob is on to something.

[Mandark]

Might have a point.

Probably the Illuminati is inflating women's egos so they reject all the available men, driving down birthrates and creating pressure to accept ever-increasing numbers of immigrants to prop up their crumbling welfare states.

[Nabbis]

We should build a wall.

[Nintex]

You are much better off focusing on the latest movies, ponies, cats, dogs, pop music, clothes, mainstream sports, CrossFit and tolerance talk than saying how you really feel about this world.

Maybe because most of those are more interesting topics than immigration laws or depression.

Turn that around for a change. Imagine if women brought up riveting topics such as:
Periods, ageing, hemorrhoids and the risk of breast cancer. Wouldn't make for a very lively talk now, would it?

99.999% of the people probably don't really care how you 'feel' about the world. At all. 

People like to discuss FUN TOPICS. My god, somebody give this guy the Pulitzer.

[Assimilate]

You are much better off focusing on the latest movies, ponies, cats, dogs, pop music, clothes, mainstream sports, CrossFit and tolerance talk than saying how you really feel about this world.

Maybe because most of those are more interesting topics than immigration laws or depression.

Turn that around for a change. Imagine if women brought up riveting topics such as:
Periods, ageing, hemorrhoids and the risk of breast cancer. Wouldn't make for a very lively talk now, would it?

99.999% of the people probably don't really care how you 'feel' about the world. At all. 

People like to discuss FUN TOPICS. My god, somebody give this guy the Pulitzer.

Depends on the age i think. I find that most males in their later 20s ,if they aren't complete pop culture losers (normally those types don't even go on dates) actually do like to discuss various topics but they know they cannot. 

And yeah some random person doesn't care about what you think of the world, but you're on a date, trying to get to know someone, trying to see if they are potential 'partners' most likely for life. Guys that know how to play the game do play it right, as this guy was addressing. Talk about what the girl wants, which is usually frivolous bullshit or you have no shot.

And again let me highlight this since most of you are autisty he writes in a comedic satirical fashion, he is not going for a Pulitzer in investigative journalism

[Flannel Boy]

I think some of you are missing the crux of the argument. It's not about individual people, it's about the system . Human psychology didn't change, the system was created around it, to pick out the worst of the worst nature in both human beings.  To some of you boy geniuses out there this may be soooo obvious, but it wasn't obvious to anyone that was around the internet during the very beginning of social media and dating apps. We thought "wow more choices" or "wow i can talk to a woman from across the country" and in the beginning it was like that, it was innocent, exciting, fresh.

Now, it's a manipulation game. A total fucking ruse. It's built this way on purpose. Major app developers know this, some of them are even trying to actively fight against it and change it's ways somehow. If it's even possible to change, i don't know.

Also, this writer writes incredibly satirically, the fact that some of you can't even pick up on that is scary. Like, REE fucking scary.

You quoted my post, but you didn't actually reply to it.

What is the “system,” and why is it picking out the “the worst of the worst nature in human beings”?

Human psychology should be informed by biology. Women (like most if not all female mammals) are more selective when it comes to picking mates because reproductive failure is more costly and parental investment is greater (this is ultimate causation that women usually do not consciously consider). Now, women could only be so choosy in the past. How much choice would a woman in a small village with only two men in her age bracket who are not closely related to her have (if actually given choice by her parents)? Then how choosy could a woman who had no real ability to participate in much of the workforce be? More freedom = more freedom to be selective. More choices = more freedom to be selective.

Why are dating sites/apps malevolent? What is their manipulation game? Why are they built this way on purpose? If I were in charge of a dating app, I would build it for the purpose of attracting the most users possible, so I could make the most money. I think I would do this by being better than the other apps at getting men and women what they want (sex, friendship, relationships, etc.). But I'm not part of the "system."