Author Topic: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.  (Read 1579 times)

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Kara

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #120 on: July 01, 2019, 03:59:56 AM »
Had the Del Taco Beyond Beef tacos this weekend. (Not the avocado ones.) They taste like their shitty tacos so if that's what you miss, then...

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #121 on: July 01, 2019, 08:49:03 AM »
Man i just realized pierogi with cabbage and shrooms are vegan.

 :-*

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #122 on: July 01, 2019, 09:20:45 AM »
I made tteokkbokki 😊 unfortunately I didn't have kombu like a dork so I had to use dulse flakes instead. Didn't have the same depth of flavors but still pretty good   >:(


Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2019, 12:52:32 PM »
:dead no way

Didn't really pay attention to the fact that Lucifer isn't vegan. (Unusually eat their spicy sausage at breakfast.) :leon


https://vegnews.com/2019/7/morningstar-corn-dogs-are-now-vegan

They have a Two Year Plan to establish Full Veganism :lawd

Field Roast kind of has the giant bag of vegan corndogs lane covered though :thinking

Kara

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2019, 03:46:40 AM »
https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/1147190649755701248

Doogie Howser puts his hand on the brain bug. "It's afraid," he says. "It's afraid!" he shouts to the crowd.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 03:51:34 AM by Kara »

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #126 on: July 10, 2019, 01:51:32 PM »
I had Beyond Meat for the first time today (it really is a us thing so far due to supply issues) and wow it shits all over euro vegan burgers.

Can totally drop beef for this.

Esch

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CatsCatsCats

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #128 on: July 10, 2019, 06:14:26 PM »
I like tasty bite Indian food pouches  :-[
😽💨


Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #130 on: July 10, 2019, 09:50:55 PM »
At this rate, if we all truly commit to going vegan and decrease cattle farming as eating meat becomes seen as unethical on top of unhealthy, and with the threat of climate change, we might be able to get to Star Trek veganism by the end of this century. Hopefully.

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #131 on: July 11, 2019, 12:43:39 AM »
Ok I actually found one supermarket now that stocks Beyond Meat, it just launched 3 days ago.

That said the price is ridiculous, even compared to the organic meat I always buy.

Price per kilo
Regular beef - 9 USD (8-12% fat)
Organic beef - 14 USD (8-12% fat)
Beyond meat - 43 USD

At this price its a total no go  :'(

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #132 on: July 11, 2019, 12:50:57 AM »
Price is definitely an issue, and one of a few reasons I don't spend a lot on beyond or impossible products, but doing a direct comparison to meat is a little unfair given the insane amount of subsidies involved. Meat is artificially cheap, and substitutes remaining competitive at this stage is pretty encouraging despite the disparity in both demand and scale of production compared to normie meat. Can't wait for kween AOC to come through with the Soy Boy New Deal in 2040 to kill meat forever

:trumps

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #133 on: July 11, 2019, 12:55:43 AM »
That reminds me, this is a pretty good read. There are a couple more in depth looks at what I was getting at above but this is an easy breeze through.


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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #134 on: July 11, 2019, 01:04:59 AM »
How is meat subsidized over other agricultural products?

I dont know the specifics of Beyond Meat if its only produced in the US or also in Europe.

But as far as I know meat production is regulated here with caps, and meat doesn't receive more or better subsidies then veg.

Look interesting Esch but European farming is very different I presume.

Kara

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #135 on: July 11, 2019, 01:06:11 AM »
Esch have you ever had the Gardein golden fishless filet? Been craving fish tacos and I've never actually tried that product of theirs.

riotous

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2019, 01:08:22 AM »
Esch have you ever had the Gardein golden fishless filet? Been craving fish tacos and I've never actually tried that product of theirs.

My wife likes those.

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #137 on: July 11, 2019, 01:09:38 AM »
Esch have you ever had the Gardein golden fishless filet? Been craving fish tacos and I've never actually tried that product of theirs.

Top 2 Gardein product and I don't even like fish. Really good if you can whip up some remoulade or some good cashew crema or something to serve with.

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #138 on: July 11, 2019, 01:17:34 AM »
How is meat subsidized over other agricultural products?

I dont know the specifics of Beyond Meat if its only produced in the US or also in Europe.

But as far as I know meat production is regulated here with caps, and meat doesn't receive more or better subsidies then veg.

Look interesting Esch but European farming is very different I presume.

1) I don't know if Beyond has european production in place, so it may just be fully imported at this point.

2) If meat producers in the EU don't receive direct subsidies, it receives indirect funding through artificially cheap animal feed. The vast majority of corn, soy, oats, wheat and similar crops tends to end up as animal feed. Some of which is produced in countries where people are food insecure or directly dying of hunger! The free market :rejoice

fact czech: https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/publi/fact/meat/2004_en.pdf

Edit: reading this more closely is entertaining. I like how they phrase their magnanimous shift to production based on quality and environmental policy (unlike dirty amerikkkans of course) while simultaneously admitting that they rewarded producers of meat based on their number of animals produced ; in short yeah they fucking copied American CAFO policy to raise production historically :dead
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 02:08:18 AM by Esch »

Kara

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #139 on: July 11, 2019, 01:24:29 AM »
My wife likes those.

Top 2 Gardein product and I don't even like fish. Really good if you can whip up some remoulade or some good cashew crema or something to serve with.

What have I been doing with my life.

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2019, 01:48:48 AM »
As an aside it's interesting (to nobody but me) how there is like a direct proportion between a food sources trophic position and it's unsubsidized cost in a market system, like sheer energy expended on creating it determines it's value. Maybe I'll save it for when I write the vegan version of Caliban and the Witch under the pen name James Nintex.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
and this is why cannibalism isn't cost effective, folks :rodney

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #141 on: July 11, 2019, 02:04:26 AM »
I read up a little on current subsidies and apparently the meat industry gets a fifth of the entire EU budget (24 billion pounds) support (Guardian article so a pinch of salt hehe)

Meanwhile protein crops receive no subsidies at all.

Thats so stupid.

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #142 on: July 11, 2019, 02:18:49 AM »
It's not stupid, well I mean it is, but it's necessary. Those direct subsidies, indirect crop subsidies, and imports from.countries who have to sell cheaper are what keeps Western animal product.consumption at these historical levels. It's like an extended metaphor for how neoliberal hegemony keeps living standards for a first world labor aristocracy afloat; imperial trade, shifty uses of state power and dollars, and outright cronyism on the private side.

I don't know about labor conditions in EU slaughterhouses but I reckon they're fucking shit PTSD and injury generators too. Ours employ undocumenteds, I'd imagine the same (or at the very least pull 'talent' from the economic lessors of the EU).

Rufus

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #143 on: July 11, 2019, 09:21:41 AM »
I remember the situation being pretty bad in Germany.

2017: "Alright, shit's bad. We're working on it."

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/fleischindustrie-ausgebeutet-auf-dem-schlachthof-1.3530747
Quote
Thousands of them work in Oldenburger Land and Emsland. They come from Poland, Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria. They work in slaughterhouses and cut pigs or cattle by piece. Thanks to this army of wage labourers, rich Germany has become a cheap country for slaughterers. According to experts, the working conditions are often miserable. Double shifts of up to 15 hours, excessive rents for mass accommodation, grotesque fees for time recording chips, protective clothing or the use of the break room. The Green member of the Bundestag, Beate Müller-Gemmeke, also criticizes this as "slave-keeping methods".

On Thursday, members of parliament announced completely surprisingly that they would contain the grievances in German slaughterhouses that had been known for some time. Already in the night to Friday Union and SPD wanted to stop the abuse of work contracts by law and take thereby also the large slaughter companies into the obligation. The CDU labour market expert Karl Schiewerling said in Berlin that the employees were often the last in a chain of subcontractors. There were inscrutable conditions, even criminal machinations.

2018: "Uh, nevermind."

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/fleischindustrie-schlachthof-kontrollen-nehmen-rapide-ab-1.4249896
Quote
Actually, a law should contain the problems. In the middle of last year the Bundestag had strengthened the rights of workers in slaughterhouses - for fear of the resistance of the industry in a night and fog action. The industry could no longer invoke subcontractors for violations of labor laws. They were to be held liable themselves. The responsible trade union Nahrung Genuss Gaststätten (NGG) spoke of a milestone. After all, controls would be easier if the working hours had to be recorded.

But now disillusionment is spreading. An answer of the Federal Government to a small inquiry of the Greens, which is present to the South German newspaper, shows: The necessary controls have not increased significantly with the law, but have even decreased rapidly. According to data from the Federal Ministry of Agriculture, the responsible "Financial Control of Undeclared Work" carried out only 233 controls in the meat industry nationwide in 2017. In 2015 there were still 445.

[...]

The government's own statistics make it clear that the controls would be more necessary than ever. A list of fines, fines and imprisonment imposed in the industry as a result of inspections reveals many hits. Between 2015 and 2017, fines doubled to 364,500 euros, and the number of prison sentences imposed in months more than quadrupled - to 356 months.

thisismyusername

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #144 on: July 11, 2019, 10:41:32 AM »
Eric Estrada out here converting folks to meat-less diets with books and alternatives. :obama Truly praxis.

(Love you, Esch. <3)

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #145 on: July 11, 2019, 10:48:01 AM »
Obviously the things I said apply to our agricultural policies all around in the developed world, especially in regards to labor conditions, but there are a lot of good reasons to play around with how much meat you're eating even if you don't buy the health research or don't give a fuck about animals. I share this video sometimes because it highlights something that's starting to rear its head (the antibiotic apocalypse)

« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 11:23:21 AM by Esch »

Mistress 9

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #146 on: July 11, 2019, 04:48:23 PM »
I love Unnatural Vegan! Her arguments are completely based in logic and not emotion which was hard to find when convincing myself to go vegan 4-5 years ago. Her videos were the main reason I stopped eating meat and dairy.

Kara

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #147 on: July 11, 2019, 04:53:12 PM »
I found her because she beefed with Durian Rider. :lol

Mistress 9

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #148 on: July 11, 2019, 04:58:56 PM »
Lmao isn't that Freelee the Banana girls ex?

Edit: yeah it is  :lol

They had/have beef with EVERYONE back in the day.

riotous

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #149 on: July 11, 2019, 05:00:12 PM »
Durian

 :holeup

Rufus

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #150 on: July 12, 2019, 11:26:06 AM »
Obviously the things I said apply to our agricultural policies all around in the developed world, especially in regards to labor conditions, but there are a lot of good reasons to play around with how much meat you're eating even if you don't buy the health research or don't give a fuck about animals. I share this video sometimes because it highlights something that's starting to rear its head (the antibiotic apocalypse)


Damn, she's very thoughtful. Really like her channel. Thanks for linking this.

TEEEPO

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #151 on: July 12, 2019, 12:01:32 PM »
don't you dare fucking mention durian rider ever again, thxz

 :shaking

riotous

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #152 on: July 12, 2019, 12:11:16 PM »
I don't know who that is, but durian is nasty. Tastes like the BO of someone who eats onions all day.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #153 on: July 12, 2019, 12:41:06 PM »
Is semen vegan?

No one can answer that.

Obviously the things I said apply to our agricultural policies all around in the developed world, especially in regards to labor conditions, but there are a lot of good reasons to play around with how much meat you're eating even if you don't buy the health research or don't give a fuck about animals. I share this video sometimes because it highlights something that's starting to rear its head (the antibiotic apocalypse)



Thanks for the link.

Kara

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2019, 01:41:07 PM »
don't you dare fucking mention durian rider ever again, thxz

 :shaking

I agree, we shouldn't make impressionable youth aware of a YouTube vlogger who says it's OK to use SPD pedals (not SPD-SL) in road cycling.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm a retro grouch now I don't care about that stuff.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
One of his sarcastic troll videos was very influential on me when I had first given up meat even though I didn't favorite it or anything. Total jerk who probably harms more people than he helps, though.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2019, 10:14:45 PM »
https://www.tastecooking.com/cooking-age-deadly-romaine/

This is definitely a concern because I fucking love romaine.

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2019, 10:20:18 PM »
I've never trusted lettuce
*****

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2019, 11:31:13 PM »
weirdly enough since i went veg lettuce has left my diet. i always opt for kale/arugula/collards/spinach because they're way more nutrient dense in calcium, vit k, iron.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2019, 11:33:30 PM »
Sure, greens are my main squeeze, but romaine is great for a burger without bread for instance.


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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #160 on: July 14, 2019, 07:46:24 AM »
I had the veganballs at ikea today, with curry.

Was pretty good

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #161 on: July 14, 2019, 07:48:37 AM »


Propagandhim

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #162 on: July 14, 2019, 09:43:40 AM »


Hot and Sour soup

CatsCatsCats

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #163 on: July 14, 2019, 09:51:45 AM »


I like those too, and my ikea also has leek medallions that p yum
😽💨

Mistress 9

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #164 on: July 15, 2019, 03:30:48 PM »
I really liked the ikea vegan balls as well. Totally regret not buying a frozen bag of them on my way out of there last time I went. The curry sauce I thought was nice too.

I don't know who that is, but durian is nasty. Tastes like the BO of someone who eats onions all day.

Riotous... Honey, sweetie, babe... you're thinking of jackfruit.

You would never be able to bring yourself to try durian.


riotous

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #165 on: July 15, 2019, 04:30:15 PM »
Oh fuck you are right.

Durian is that thing I'm too afraid to even smell.

I have a weak gag reflex when it comes to smelly shit lol

CatsCatsCats

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #166 on: July 15, 2019, 05:20:23 PM »
Attention vegan scavengers, blackberries be poppin, freeeeee fooooooddd
😽💨


Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #168 on: July 17, 2019, 04:34:46 PM »
You guys have a favorite protein powder?  This is what I'm rocking atm:  https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Nutrition-Standard-Organic-Complete/dp/B075KGR37C?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B075KGR37C&tag=healthcom04a-20&ascsubtag=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e&th=1

Ive tried Vega, Vivolife, Orgain. Currently rocking this:

Pea Protein Powder (80% protein) 1.5 lb, Non-GMO, Vegan, Gluten & Nut Free- Boost your recipes and smoothies with 20 grams protein/serving https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DK2XJYW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Zy4lDbWZJD3R2

It's really cheap and good, and unsweetened.

Propagandhim

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #169 on: July 17, 2019, 05:11:18 PM »
You guys have a favorite protein powder?  This is what I'm rocking atm:  https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Nutrition-Standard-Organic-Complete/dp/B075KGR37C?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B075KGR37C&tag=healthcom04a-20&ascsubtag=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e&th=1

Ive tried Vega, Vivolife, Orgain. Currently rocking this:

Pea Protein Powder (80% protein) 1.5 lb, Non-GMO, Vegan, Gluten & Nut Free- Boost your recipes and smoothies with 20 grams protein/serving https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DK2XJYW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Zy4lDbWZJD3R2

It's really cheap and good, and unsweetened.

That looks great actually -- really inexpensive.  I'll pick some up.  Thanks!

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #170 on: July 17, 2019, 06:25:01 PM »
My local favorite Taqueria has vegan tacos now.

Yeet! :rejoice

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #171 on: July 22, 2019, 02:15:45 PM »
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/07/17/742670701/if-we-all-ate-enough-fruits-and-vegetables-thered-be-big-shortages

Not a bad article. It's good to see that news outlets are starting to frame discussions on land use and sustainability.

OnlyRegret

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #172 on: July 22, 2019, 02:21:04 PM »
Let's be honest. You clicked cuz u want to see me eat and maybe cook weird shit.

While nude, baby. While nude. You gotta get in on that Hoff market. ;)

More seriously: Why did you decide to go Vegan, if you don't mind my asking.

2015: I was overweight as hell (50lbs). I've always been chubby my whole life in some way, even when i was fit and doing sports I had some baby fat, but i had really gone off the wheels after college. I was feeling like shit, and i noticed my piss was smelling sweet. I had diabetes. I read the blue zones book by chance in a store and it challenged a lot of perceptions i had about weight loss, carbohydrates, etc that people were telling me (this was when keto was just getting popular) but i mentally shelved it until a good family friend of mine died from heart attack. I was working in the medical field at the time doing alzheimers research and found out that cognitive decline and heart disease are correlated. Decided to try out some meatless meals, instantly felt better.

early 2016: Saw cowspiracy, read a bunch of scientific literature on climate change and animal agriculture to see if it was bs or not, it wasn't, I dropped meat with the intention of maybe going vegan later depending on whether i could keep it up. Sorta ended up loving it. again i got more energy back and my new career picked up. my a1c improved a lot and I was no longer really diabetic.

late 2016: saw Earthlings, it was a lot for me, i'm pretty sensitive. I've seen a lot of violent material and some real life violence in my life, but something about that really clicked with me. I went vegan around this time, for ethical purposes. I started losing a lot of fat when i adopted a more whole foods approach (just being smarter about oil, sugar, flour).

Been vegan since. Saved my life probably lol. It was a lot easier for me than other people because indian culture means you eat a lot of lentils, beans, vegetables, fruits etc but from a health perspective an indian plant based diet has a lot of pitfalls (oily fried crap, sweets, milk and cream in everything, flour, an emphasis on refined carbs over produce).

definitely
been telling off the parents that some of that stuff is straight garbage despite being vegetarian
way too sugary/simple carbs, trans fats and so on

OnlyRegret

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #173 on: July 22, 2019, 02:24:18 PM »
had vegan ice cream the other day, it was stupidly good
odds are, it was probably unhealthier than regular ice cream though

Esch

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #174 on: July 22, 2019, 02:31:13 PM »
had vegan ice cream the other day, it was stupidly good
odds are, it was probably unhealthier than regular ice cream though

No cholesterol? Vegan wins.
Saturated fat? Tossup. Some vegan ice creams are coconut oil based and bad here.
Added sugar content? Depends on the brand.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Doing this sort of analysis is stupid. You're eating ice cream ffs :usure

Dufus

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Re: Vegan Food Thread - Meat.... More like yeet, imo.
« Reply #175 on: July 22, 2019, 04:17:47 PM »
Let's be honest. You clicked cuz u want to see me eat and maybe cook weird shit.

While nude, baby. While nude. You gotta get in on that Hoff market. ;)

More seriously: Why did you decide to go Vegan, if you don't mind my asking.

2015: I was overweight as hell (50lbs). I've always been chubby my whole life in some way, even when i was fit and doing sports I had some baby fat, but i had really gone off the wheels after college. I was feeling like shit, and i noticed my piss was smelling sweet. I had diabetes. I read the blue zones book by chance in a store and it challenged a lot of perceptions i had about weight loss, carbohydrates, etc that people were telling me (this was when keto was just getting popular) but i mentally shelved it until a good family friend of mine died from heart attack. I was working in the medical field at the time doing alzheimers research and found out that cognitive decline and heart disease are correlated. Decided to try out some meatless meals, instantly felt better.

early 2016: Saw cowspiracy, read a bunch of scientific literature on climate change and animal agriculture to see if it was bs or not, it wasn't, I dropped meat with the intention of maybe going vegan later depending on whether i could keep it up. Sorta ended up loving it. again i got more energy back and my new career picked up. my a1c improved a lot and I was no longer really diabetic.

late 2016: saw Earthlings, it was a lot for me, i'm pretty sensitive. I've seen a lot of violent material and some real life violence in my life, but something about that really clicked with me. I went vegan around this time, for ethical purposes. I started losing a lot of fat when i adopted a more whole foods approach (just being smarter about oil, sugar, flour).

Been vegan since. Saved my life probably lol. It was a lot easier for me than other people because indian culture means you eat a lot of lentils, beans, vegetables, fruits etc but from a health perspective an indian plant based diet has a lot of pitfalls (oily fried crap, sweets, milk and cream in everything, flour, an emphasis on refined carbs over produce).

:rejoice

Kara

  • Why are you keeping quiet, like the League of Nations?
  • Senior Member