Author Topic: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer  (Read 1758 times)

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MMaRsu

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Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« on: October 13, 2020, 12:47:26 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1316011746973286400

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


Radical left? Who the f is he talking about

Is this like holocoast deniers talking about how Hitler was actually a really good man and did a lot of good things for Germany?

Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2020, 12:55:47 PM »
Hard to discover a place where my ancestors were already living.
野球

Stro

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2020, 12:56:16 PM »
He also thinks that teaching about racism is illegal and UnAmerican.

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 12:57:42 PM »
the radical left

this was in the sopranos. this has been a discussion for generations lmao
weed

Joe Molotov

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2020, 12:58:15 PM »
You watch the streets, I'll watch the Christopher Columbus legacy.
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shosta

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2020, 01:00:13 PM »
Columbus being a genocidal maniac wasn't widely recognized here until recently (or at best was apologized for as "complex") and is a major part of the culture war right now. Fox commentators were having a field day yesterday.
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bork

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2020, 01:13:16 PM »
I like that he capitalized "The Radical Left."
:birdman
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Stro

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2020, 01:17:32 PM »
It's not a recent thing. As Cindi points out, it was a plot point in The Sopranos 20 years ago. Also there has been opposition to it for the current reason since it became an official holiday, and previously there was strong opposition to it from the KKK and similar groups because of its association with....Catholicism.

shosta

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2020, 01:19:07 PM »
It's never been as common as it is now among liberals. States weren't replacing Columbus Day with Indigenous People's Day before.

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/61990/columbus.html
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 01:21:39 PM »
and previously there was strong opposition to it from the KKK and similar groups because of its association with....Catholicism.

How it started vs how it's going.

https://twitter.com/harddrivemag/status/1300780535770476544
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Great Rumbler

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2020, 01:44:40 PM »
Hey, Columbus, why don't you discover DEEZ NUTS
dog

Stro

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2020, 01:47:45 PM »
Got em

MMaRsu

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2020, 01:51:36 PM »
Hey, Columbus, why don't you discover DEEZ NUTS

I would make a cool meme out of this but I dont really know how to use Photoshop that good


"Hey Columbus, did you discover those two big motherfuckers we told you about?


"Which two big motherfuckers?"


"DEEEEZ NUUUUUUTS"

Piss Benoit

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2020, 02:55:39 PM »


bork

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2020, 02:58:38 PM »
ど助平

james

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2020, 03:01:20 PM »
It's never been as common as it is now among liberals. States weren't replacing Columbus Day with Indigenous People's Day before.

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/61990/columbus.html

Indigenous People's Day is older than you, you absolute twat.

Quote
It also stems back to a decision by Gov. George Mickelson in the late 1980s to seek "reconciliation" between Natives and whites after historically bad relations. Mickelson asked the Legislature to declare 1990 a "Year of Reconciliation" and to rename Columbus Day as Native Americans' Day. The measure passed unanimously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Peoples'_Day#Observing_locations

Famously liberal South Dakota.
:O

Nintex

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2020, 03:04:10 PM »
Columbus :like
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Trent Dole

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2020, 04:55:33 PM »
Columbus was despised in his own day let alone now. Do you think people gave the dude a boat in the hopes he'd sail off the edge of the world cause they liked him?
Hi

MMaRsu

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shosta

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2020, 05:45:04 PM »
Indigenous People's Day is older than you, you absolute twat.
https://whdh.com/news/these-states-are-ditching-columbus-day-to-observe-indigenous-peoples-day-instead/

I know it's old but we absolutely hit an inflection point only just recently (2017, 2018).
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EchoRin

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2020, 05:49:57 PM »
True true Shosta. Never heard about Indigenous Day back in grade school. Not that I even have an issue with replacing Columbus Day with it. I never even heard a peep about it until I was an adult.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2020, 07:15:07 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1316011746973286400

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


Radical left? Who the f is he talking about

Is this like holocoast deniers talking about how Hitler was actually a really good man and did a lot of good things for Germany?
No itís an appeal to his white base that feels that their American culture is under attack by minorities. Itís a shut up minorities whistle. Because now a counter point is that the left hates America and bring in communism. Which is idiotic. But what I find funny is that Trump has badmouthed America and mocked our military and institutions the entire time, but sure heís saving America. When a black athlete critiques America heís a son of a bitch, but when the white president does it heís a hero.

These people canít handle that human society is constantly changing.

Joe Molotov

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©@©ô

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2020, 01:43:11 AM »
I've been thinking a lot about Columbus and this whole issue.

Should Columbus day be a federal holiday? Probably not.

Should all Columbus statues be toppled? I'm not sure.

Should we erect statues of men? Definitely not.


Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2020, 01:51:41 AM »
My personal feeling is that getting upset about a statue of a guy that did something 500 years ago is a bit mad. Like who cares if the Germans/Russians have some statues of dudes we beefed with back in the back. Of course I would feel different if those statues were actually in MY country. That makes things different here.

That said I'm def not down celebrating one of those assholes battles or genocides.

Big takeaway is not to put up statues of humans, cause we are all trash.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 01:58:12 AM by Cerveza mas fina »

shosta

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2020, 02:08:17 AM »
Would you leave up a statue of hitler
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Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2020, 02:38:07 AM »
If you use this kind of logic in an actual conversation no wonder right wingers are having a field day with dumb lefties.

Comparing Columbus to Hitler makes sense if you never went to University/School and get your history knowledge from Facebook and Twitter.

You could at least pretend to try to view the issue from all sides, maybe then you could create some common ground instead of spewing BS.

BIONIC

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2020, 02:43:47 AM »
Quote
Should we erect men? Definitely!

:drool
Wine

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2020, 03:20:12 AM »
I don't have a problem with statues. I don't like the weird reverence the right has for them in a "it's my culture" way which to me reads like a refusal to acknowledge the problems and shut the fuck up liberals.  It never even comes off beyond that, I can understand that you think it's history and you take the good with the bad, but often it just seems like people upset that liberals find yet other thing "problematic". And while yeah the left can be annoying, I see looking at the past and trying to acknowledge it as a good and progressive thing. We need to learn from what was bad so that we don't make the same mistakes. I think like everything there is a balance.

Like the President's tweet is just complete garbage. It is now 2020 and the world has changed and reflected on the past so much. We are moving away from the type of culture that saw Columbus as some great man, because we have a greater understanding of history and the nuances of it. Also as a society we are trying to figure out our race relations and all this means that perceptions on things are going to change. I see this as a good thing. I see Tweets like that as a real "NO I REFUSE TO ACKNOLEDGE THIS BECAUSE I WANT THINGS TO STAY THE SAME LIKE THEY WERE WHEN I HAD UNQUESTIONABLE POWER". It's like saying that Jesus was clearly white when thats fucking stupid. Our society is changing from one that only has the white narrative or the man at the top. It's becoming diverse. This does not have to be an awful change. And to me that is America. I have seen America as the melting pot of the world and one of many diverse viewpoints.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 03:25:44 AM by Rahxephon91 »

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2020, 03:30:50 AM »
I don't agree we have a greater understanding of history at all, just that our views have changed of what is great.

The problem with the right and left right now is mostly that on both sides you have people frothing at the mouth and not talking about things normally.

On the right you have tinfoil hats and Drumf thinking discussing things is THE END OF MAH CULTURE. On the left you have people like Shosta who say Columbus is literally Hitler. Of course no normal solution will be found between these two dumb extremes.

What both left and right need to accept that things change and will change and really normally talk to each other and try to understand each other honestly.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2020, 03:34:30 AM »
I don't have a problem with statues. I don't like the weird reverence the right has for them in a "it's my culture" way

If your culture identity is so fragile you need a statue of a dude that lived 500 years ago you have deeper issues.

Also if your culture identity is so fragile all that matters for you is tearing down a statue of a dude that lived 500 years ago you have deeper issues.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 03:39:33 AM by Cerveza mas fina »

MMaRsu

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2020, 03:48:47 AM »
I don't agree we have a greater understanding of history at all, just that our views have changed of what is great.

The problem with the right and left right now is mostly that on both sides you have people frothing at the mouth and not talking about things normally.

On the right you have tinfoil hats and Drumf thinking discussing things is THE END OF MAH CULTURE. On the left you have people like Shosta who say Columbus is literally Hitler. Of course no normal solution will be found between these two dumb extremes.

What both left and right need to accept that things change and will change and really normally talk to each other and try to understand each other honestly.

Its been a shouting match for years, but most conversations really devolve into dumb shit these days

Then again dont take shosta's comparison with Hitler seriously maybe

Piss Benoit

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2020, 03:56:03 AM »
In the discord shosta says his hitler comparison was being kind to Columbus :doge

MMaRsu

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2020, 04:00:20 AM »
Discord isnt Bore canon soo

Piss Benoit

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2020, 04:06:16 AM »
Thatís what someone not a part of it would say :girlaff

BIONIC

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2020, 04:16:30 AM »
Thatís what someone not a part of it would say :girlaff

 ::)
Wine

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2020, 04:32:12 AM »
In the discord shosta says his hitler comparison was being kind to Columbus :doge

 :lol

Shosta competing with Trump in the Hyperbolelympics I see.

Discord isnt Bore canon soo

Ever since you can get banned on the Bore for insulting mods on Discord I think it is

maybe it will get retconned though

bork

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2020, 07:58:49 AM »
Ever since you can get banned on the Bore for insulting mods on Discord I think it is

Ah, but that started here.  Know your bore lore. :wag
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Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2020, 09:50:41 AM »
Haha bork remember when you banned me because I rightfully said mass protests during a global pandemic were dumb if your demographic was already hurt hard?

Still waiting for an apology.

Stro

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2020, 10:12:58 AM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're prob gonna stay waiting dawg

bork

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2020, 11:23:36 AM »
Haha bork remember when you banned me because I rightfully said mass protests during a global pandemic were dumb if your demographic was already hurt hard?

Still waiting for an apology.

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Propagandhim

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2020, 11:32:45 AM »
Interesting how the topic turned from that of a decent, upstanding man to the genocidal tyrant, Bork.

D3RANG3D

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2020, 11:34:21 AM »

Nintex

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2020, 12:19:23 PM »
As a history fan I just love relics from the old days so statues in my book are to be protected.
There are of course exemptions, which for me is political leaders who were bad dudes like Hitler and Stalin.
However, if a statue of Hitler or Stalin was to be found I'd rather have it placed in a museum than demolished.

However, Columbus was no political leader but an explorer and exploration is dangerous and often deadly.
It follows the laws of nature, kill or be killed or do or die trying.

So being the first to make such a risky trip is worth recognizing the achievement even if it ended in bloodshed.
GAMER

MMaRsu

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2020, 12:56:25 PM »
He also comitted genocide but ok im sure he was a great guy

Quote
To be fair, Columbus was never a head of state. Comparisons of
him to Nazi SS leader Heinrich Himmler, rather than Hitler, are
therefore more accurate and appropriate. It is time to delve into the
substance of the defendants' assertion that Columbus and Himmler, Nazi
Lebensraumpolitik (conquest of "living space" in eastern Europe) and
the "settlement of the New World" bear more than casual
resemblance to one another.

https://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

Quote
So being the first to make such a risky trip is worth recognizing the achievement

Is it really though?

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2020, 01:34:14 PM »
He also comitted genocide but ok im sure he was a great guy

Quote
To be fair, Columbus was never a head of state. Comparisons of
him to Nazi SS leader Heinrich Himmler, rather than Hitler, are
therefore more accurate and appropriate. It is time to delve into the
substance of the defendants' assertion that Columbus and Himmler, Nazi
Lebensraumpolitik (conquest of "living space" in eastern Europe) and
the "settlement of the New World" bear more than casual
resemblance to one another.

https://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

Quote
So being the first to make such a risky trip is worth recognizing the achievement

Is it really though?

Not that I disagree that Columbus was a genocidal maniac shitter, but wasn't Ward Churchill the goof that said Americans deserved 9/11?

MMaRsu

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2020, 02:18:13 PM »
I dont know the guy so I cant say either way

But then again, America kinda had some shit coming. They have been fucking with the Middle East for so long, someone was bound to launch some kind of fucked up attack.

Not that I feel that 9/11 was deserved, it was a despicable horrible attack and I still remember the day it happened.

I do agree that America is like the fucking World Police and they fucked with the Middle East and created their own enemies.

bork

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Re: M. Bison was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2020, 02:59:40 PM »



:bolo

I vote we replace statues of Columbus with Raul Julia and Van Damme, and rename the holiday to "Street Fighter: The Movie: The Holiday."
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MMaRsu

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2020, 03:25:57 PM »
Fuck yes replace all statues with Street Fighter statues

VomKriege

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2020, 03:36:51 PM »
The War is canceled.
ὕβρις

Snoopycat_

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2020, 07:52:33 PM »
He's talking about Columbo you idiots. Jesus.

naff

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2020, 10:21:24 PM »
As a history fan I just love relics from the old days so statues in my book are to be protected.
There are of course exemptions, which for me is political leaders who were bad dudes like Hitler and Stalin.
However, if a statue of Hitler or Stalin was to be found I'd rather have it placed in a museum than demolished.

However, Columbus was no political leader but an explorer and exploration is dangerous and often deadly.
It follows the laws of nature, kill or be killed or do or die trying.

So being the first to make such a risky trip is worth recognizing the achievement even if it ended in bloodshed.

you sound more like a fetishist to me

should we be celebrating someone who laid the groundwork for the genocidal extermination of millions is what people are asking, and turns out, a lot of people are pretty horrified by the actual history.
◕‿◕

naff

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2020, 10:22:53 PM »
making distinctions between explorer or conqueror is dumb shit for larpers
◕‿◕

bork

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2020, 10:25:12 PM »



"Troopers! I have just received new orders. Our superiors say the war is cancelled, and we can all go home. Bison is getting paid off for his crimes, and our friends will have died here... will have died for nothing. But... we can all go home. Meanwhile, ideas like peace, freedom and justice - they get packed up. But... we can all go home. Well... I'm not going home. I'm gonna get on my boat, and I'm going up-river, and I'm going to kick that son-of-a-bitch Bison's ass so HARD... that the next Bison wanna-be is gonna feel it. Now who wants to go home... and who wants to go with ME!?"
:salute :yukasalute :salute
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Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2020, 10:45:13 PM »
Columbus being a genocidal maniac wasn't widely recognized here until recently (or at best was apologized for as "complex") and is a major part of the culture war right now. Fox commentators were having a field day yesterday.

Why everything needs to be a fucking culture war with you guys. And why focusing in stupid shit like this when, if you want to fly with the rest of the world, you guys should be more concerned on finally starting using the metrical system.

benjipwns

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2020, 10:48:10 PM »
finally starting using the metrical system.
Go to hell Marxist.

Boredfrom

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2020, 11:02:20 PM »
finally starting using the metrical system.
Go to hell Marxist.

The Stonecutters cannot keep getting away with this.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2020, 12:14:01 AM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're prob gonna stay waiting dawg

It's ok, takes a big man to say they were wrong.

shosta

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2020, 01:29:41 AM »
Why everything needs to be a fucking culture war with you guys.
I agree, it shouldn't even be debatable to change Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples Day.
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Transhuman

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Re: Columbus was a great explorer and not a murderer
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2020, 03:37:37 AM »
Did you guys really want the North Koreans to find America first? Really?